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Rollingthunder
27th Sep 2011, 08:39
I usually tip around 15% and don't like it one bit. Owners of restaurants should pay decent salaries to staff instead. I don't tip in take-out places or flight attendants. But I say thank you.

GANNET FAN
27th Sep 2011, 08:52
Here's one for you. If you charter a yacht, say at $120,000 a week (sometimes up to $500,000 depending on the yacht) you are expected to fork out 10% gratuity (hate that word) for the crew. And if its a US owned and crewed yacht then 15% is the norm and that's after spending huge sums on food and booze.

But I do understand that in the US tipping is (generally) a very different necessity to that in Europe.

ExSp33db1rd
27th Sep 2011, 09:38
Moving to NZ from Singapore - both No Tipping cultures, except that North American visitors do, and spoil it for everyone else - I have no qualms about not tipping anywhere, sort of comes naturally, and yes, I do get some funny looks in the USA, not been poisoned yet, and taxi drivers don't realise the situation until my journey has been completed. Perhaps I just don't go anywhere twice !

Only ever once received a 'tip' - when a VERY large Aztec Indian looking passenger forced his way on to the flight deck on disembarking, nearly broke my hand with his over effusive handshake, and INSISTED that I accept an unopened quart sized bottle of Tequila. his insistence was not one that could be refused

Unfortunately H.M. Customs were not sympathetic to my plight, and seriously lightened my wallet before letting me go home ! I suppose I could have poured it down the drain, but I just couldn't bring myself to do that !

We did hear tell of Arabian Princes and gold watches, and stewardesses receiving pink XK-120's but I guess it was all just a tale ?

rh200
27th Sep 2011, 09:44
And like a lot of other Yankee;) phenomena its spreading to over here as well, been seeing it more and more. Generally not so @nal about the cross cultural contamination, but that one gets up my nose.

antic81
27th Sep 2011, 10:06
If you ever go to South Africa be prepared to have to tip a fellow everytime you park your car in a public car park...now what exactly are you tipping him for you may ask?
Well although he has probably never driven a car in his life, he will helpfully direct you to park by waving his arms around a lot, then ofcourse he will "look after" your car so it doesn't get nicked...of course when it does get nicked he will still simply stand there looking confused with his hand out...and yes that has happend to a friend of mine - when he came back to where his car was parked all he was met with was our friend "the car protector" and an empty parking space!

BarbiesBoyfriend
27th Sep 2011, 10:56
My usual tip is; 'Don't wipe yer arse with a broken bottle'.

Vizsla
27th Sep 2011, 12:06
I thought the Jaguar story was true, it was pink and registration FU 2

Later the registration went on another Jag for Fiona Richmond as a gift from Paul Raymond

Checkboard
27th Sep 2011, 12:37
What about restaurants which include the following on their menu:

An optional 12.5% service charge will be added to your bill.

Now there are two ways to view that:
It is an annoying thing; it forces a tip on you when infact you may not wish to tip (due bad service), it mis-represents the prices on the actual menu and it takes away from the pleasure should you actually WANT to tip, or
It is a good thing; you no longer have to agonise over whether tipping is appropriate, whether the waiting staff are being paid enough and how much an appropriate tip should be - it relieves the customer from the pressure.

Cacophonix
27th Sep 2011, 12:42
Well although he has probably never driven a car in his life, he will helpfully direct you to park by waving his arms around a lot, then ofcourse he will "look after" your car so it doesn't get nicked...of course when it does get nicked he will still simply stand there looking confused with his hand out...and yes that has happend to a friend of mine - when he came back to where his car was parked all he was met with was our friend "the car protector" and an empty parking space!


Welcome to SA! One of them recently attempted to direct me out into the path of an oncoming petrol bowser! ;)


he has probably never driven a car in his life


And if he has he may not have a license. Like the driver of the taxi that drove head on into a colleague of mine last week. Get better soon Andy.

Caco

vulcanised
27th Sep 2011, 12:52
I've heard the folk from Dale Farm might be involved in that.

Capetonian
27th Sep 2011, 12:52
The car park attendants in SA are a menace! I parked in Stellenbosch a few weeks ago, the 'attendant' asked me how long I'd be, I said I didn't know but an hour or so, she said that was ok, I said I'd pay her when I got back. I got back 2 hours later, and she comes over to me with a big smile and says : "Aw, sir, you get a fine for stay too long." It wasn't much and I won't have to pay it anyway but it raises the question as to what purpose these people serve, if any!

When I pay a restaurant bill and they leave an option for gratuity on the credit card slip or machine, I have absolutely no shame in adding 0.00 if the service was not good.

goudie
27th Sep 2011, 13:24
I hate tipping. Not because I'm a mean barsteward, I just think it's demeaning for both both parties, although I'm sure the person receiving the tip gets over it!
When dining out in the USA I find the over attentive waiter/waitress quite intrusive. 'Hi, my name's Bruce/Mandy and I'll be taking care of you this evening, our specials this evening are............''. All this faux care is designed for just one reason. To be given a very large tip.

treadigraph
27th Sep 2011, 13:34
I never add a tip to a credit card, always leave cash so that the waiter/waitress gets it rather than some Merc-driving owner.

I never leave one in a pub either; after I paid for a fairly expensive (for me) meal in a south coast pub it was strongly hinted that I should put the £10-ish change into the staff pot - I put it in the RNLI box instead...

Goudie, know wot you mean, I hate constant interruptions of "is everything alright?" as well. If isn't, we'll blimmin well soon let you know.

Firestorm
27th Sep 2011, 18:03
Whenever I see that a service charge has been added I deduct it (it is optional), and don't leave any tip. It's usually done in places where the service is not deserving of a tip (the tip in my opinion is to reward good service).

Like tredigraph I never add a tip to a credit card payment, but leave some cash, for the same reasons.

I don't tip in pubs for drinks, but sometimes tip for meals if I think that the service has been worth it. So that's not often in Britain then. And if anyone calls me and my ding companions' guys' or 'mate' that's definitely no tip.

goudie
27th Sep 2011, 19:21
I once took an American work colleague for his first visit to a British pub.
He bought a round of drinks and when he received his change he left a pound coin on the bar. I asked ''why'd do that''? He said, '' it's a tip for the barman''. I said ''we don't tip the barman, just ask him if he'd like drink,'' which he did. The barman took the pound, said thanks and put the pound in the till. ''He didn't have a drink'' said my American friend. ''No'' I replied, it'll just go towards the evening's tips. ''But you said............'':confused:

gingernut
27th Sep 2011, 19:42
The bar steward at our watering hole has it about right.

Would ya' have a drink Gary...

Thanks gingernut (it's not my real name by the way), I'll have a half with ya'

It's a simple unwritten rule, he doesn't take the mickey, everyone, at some stage in the night, buy's him a drink or two.

con-pilot
27th Sep 2011, 19:48
I once took an American work colleague for his first visit to a British pub.
He bought a round of drinks and when he received his change he left a pound coin on the bar. I asked ''why'd do that''? He said, '' it's a tip for the barman''. I said ''we don't tip the barman, just ask him if he'd like drink,'' which he did. The barman took the pound, said thanks and put the pound in the till. ''He didn't have a drink'' said my American friend. ''No'' I replied, it'll just go towards the evening's tips. ''But you said............

Exactly, I caught onto that trick when I was kid living in England. :p

Since growing up and returning to England many, many times, I've seen the barman/woman put the pound in the till, shirt pocket, pants pocket, a jar on the back bar, etc. Very seldom, if ever come to think about it, have I ever see one of them actually have a drink.

ExSp33db1rd
27th Sep 2011, 21:54
Very seldom, if ever come to think about it, have I ever see one of them actually have a drink.

With generous clients they'd be p***ed by the end of the evening if they did !

Had a friend who had experienced some aggressive customers if they refused to accept, so the bar staff filled a whisky bottle with ginger ale and put it in the rack with all the other spirits, eyeglass measure an'all, and then replied " thank you very much, Sir, I'll have a Scotch " - and charged accordingly, carefully keeping their glass at the back of the bar of course.

Clever, worked most of the time I gather.

Course ... if someone really asked for a Scotch they had to remember which was the correct bottle, or an ugly scene might have ensued !

con-pilot
27th Sep 2011, 22:59
All of the wait staff that work in our restaurant, except one, are university students, half of which are working on graduate degrees. Two are in pre-med. If a customer leaves cash, all that cash goes to the sever. If tips are left on a credit card, 3/4 goes to the waitperson the rest goes into a pool where it is split among the chefs and the other kitchen staff. It is not unusual for a waitperson to make $300.00 to $500.00 a night on Friday and Saturday night.

The owner and none of the managers receive a single penny of any tips.

Oh, it is not uncommon for a chef to called out of the kitchen to receive tips from a happy customer. Or go back into the kitchen and give a chef a tip.

Personally I've never seen or heard of a tip to a chef be less than one hundred dollars.

Gordy
28th Sep 2011, 03:59
In restaurants here in the US, the wait staff are required to "tip out" the food runners, hostess, bar staff, bus boys etc.The percentages are pretty standard nation wide and based upon a percentage of the tips they receive. If you leave the whole tip on the credit card---this "tipping out" process is done automatically.

If you leave cash, it is generally accepted that unless you mention different, the server will tip out as though you gave them15% and then keep the rest.

The other thing to consider is that wait staff are taxed upon the understanding they receive a 12% tip on ALL of their sales..... (I believe it is 12% but could be wrong), this tax is withheld by the employer and paid to the IRS on their behalf. Therefore, if you do not leave a tip---it actually costs them money to wait on you........

Especially in some states the minimum wage is less for waitstaff than other employees---as low as $2.55 an hour in some places. So, in short, certainly if you are in the US---please tip the staff, or if you did not feel they deserve it then feel free to bring the matter to the attention of the manager who can reduce your bill.

YorkshireTyke
28th Sep 2011, 10:50
.........withheld by the employer and paid to the IRS

So the IRS expects the rest of the world, e.g. visitors, to pay US tax !

No way. Catch Me If You Can

Good, not obsequious, service might persuade me to leave a small tip, but not a fixed IRS levy if I have a choice. If there's no sales tax on restaurant food, change the system, as in VAT, then there'd be no choice.

End of story.

Checkboard
28th Sep 2011, 14:41
Sounds like a business opportunity - a restaurant in the USA with a big sign:


NO-TIP RESTAURANT
WE DO NOT ALLOW TIPPING
HERE

:ok:

... and an explanation on the menu and bill that the staff are paid above industry average wages in recompense. ;)

radeng
28th Sep 2011, 16:53
I think you will find in the UK that if you include the tip in the credit card payment, VAT is charged on it. So I tip in cash - especially if the waitress is pleasant and a good looking young lady!

wings folded
28th Sep 2011, 17:18
if you include the tip in the credit card payment, VAT is charged on it
Not too sure that is so.

I am no VAT expert, but do have to account for the damned phenomenon. I would have thought that if VAT were levied on the tip, there would have to be a VAT invoice raised. I have never seen an invoice for a tip.

The real rip-off is when a service charge (say 12.5%) is added to your bill. The 12.5% is calculated on the amount inclusive of VAT. So you pay a "service charge" for the "service" of having to pay VAT.

vulcanised
28th Sep 2011, 17:57
As a one-time taxi driver I'm a little surprised no-one's mentioned their tips.

It was an important part of my income, especially when I was driving someone else's cab, and I would have struggled without it.

On the rare occasions when I travel by cab these days I always add 10-15% to what's on the meter.

modtinbasher
28th Sep 2011, 20:13
Tinbashet and I were staying overnight at Manchester flying next day, so I asked young MTB who works in Liverpool and has Manc friends (???) to research a "reasonable" eatery for the night. "Reasonable" means not too expensive, not far from the railhead to the airport and not in the area where you can get "lost"!

There are 2 of the above establishments and we chose the one that does "traditional" food, erm, barnsley choop, black pooding, mooshy peas, llamb chancre, and other glorious northern delights.

We had a lovely meal and we were eventually presented with the bill. It was about £50 inc alcohol, so I would normally have given the waitress 10% if the service was good. It hadn't been bad, so I went up to the till with my credit card and asked if tips on the credit card were given to the staff. I was told that they were not they were kept by the owners.:eek:

OK, I said, I'll give you my tip in cash. I was then told that there would be an extra 10% added to the bill for "service"!

Erm, just one course and drink, another fiver? Yes the girl said, another 10% goes on every bill. Ok, says I, who receives that? The owners I was told.:ooh:

OK I said, please remove that from my bill and put the balance on my credit card and I'll sort your tip in a minute.

I went back to my table where nearby was a Scouser hen party, about 20 girls, really having a good night, bubbly, steaks, the whole ish. I asked the Scouser in charge if she knew that there would be 10% added to the whole bill.:ugh:

Evidently she didn't and my revelation started up a whole new, somewhat heated conversation!............................................... ....:mad:.

Just then the waitress who had told me about the tipping/service policy arrived at my table and in "no uncertain terms" told us to leave.:= OK, I did not have a lot of problem with that so away we proceded.

Just to say that at my age I'm not out for antagonism or disruption, but I can't stand to be ripped off. Uncle Sam's Chop House managers.. you've had all you are ever going to get out of me!! You can stuff your Barnsley Chop with your piles!

MTB

Checkboard
28th Sep 2011, 21:16
If the bill had just turned up at £55 - would you have been bothered?

Gordy
28th Sep 2011, 21:28
Yorkshiretyke

So the IRS expects the rest of the world, e.g. visitors, to pay US tax !

Nope...this is "income tax" on the waitpersons INCOME..... Just like in the UK, employees are required to pay INCOME tax...and employers typically deduct it from your paycheck.

It is the way things are over here---I bet you are one of those who always totes "when in Rome..." when you are talking about things in the UK, please do the same if you choose to visit this side of the pond. Better yet, please stay right where you are at, might be best for all of us.

dwshimoda
28th Sep 2011, 21:45
I can't speak for the terrible service you seem to have had, but as someone who lives in the City Centre and visits Sam's (not Uncle Sam's) Chophouse a few times a month, it bears no resemblance to any of my experiences.

I regularly drop in for food or just drinks - it's quite nice to have a pint and read the paper sitting next to Lowry. Never, on any of my visits have I been forced to pay a service charge, and every time I leave a tip in cash. The place is usually very friendly and with great service, and does the best Corned Beef Hash in the world. I even took my Dad there for Fathers Day this year. I guess you had an off day, but I do not recognise the place from your description.

DW.

YorkshireTyke
28th Sep 2011, 22:12
Better yet, please stay right where you are at, might be best for all of us.

Don't have a lot of trouble with that !

Matari
28th Sep 2011, 22:34
I really don't know what some of you folk get so spun up about.

There's a small pizza joint in my neighborhood, been there for 25 years. They make pretty good pizza, and the tables are full just about every night. They also have a phone-in order and delivery service, and pizza arrives quick and warm.

Their entire waitstaff is high school kids working for $3.00/hour plus tips. The kids make some pretty good pocket money, and queue up when the restaurant has job interviews once a year.

The patrons get service with a smile, and the owner stays in profitable business for 25 years. No one is compelled to tip 15%, but most patrons tip that and more. Everybody wins, nobody is forced to do anything they don't want to do.

Let's say a family of four eats out and spends $40 a meal (it can be done for less, easily). A 15% tip would be $6.00. Twice a week, the family spends $12.00/week in service tips. Eating out twice a week for 52 weeks, costs the family a paltry $624.00 in tips.

That's a small price to pay for pretty good service, happy customers, and owners making enough to stay in business employing kids and making good pizza for 25 years.

That scene is repeated thousands of times over in communities all over the states, from con-pilot's restaurant to the pizza joint to Vietnamese Pho bistros and BBQ smokehouses.

So what is the problem with tipping again?

Slasher
29th Sep 2011, 04:02
I don't care what geographic location I'm in or what the local
culture is, I'll tip if the service is far above what's required by
king and country. If the service is mediocre or lousy I'll leave
absolutely nothing - period!

I admit this hasn't gained me many friends in the US!

Bob Lenahan
5th Oct 2011, 00:48
How much do you tip the pilot?
Bob.

henry crun
5th Oct 2011, 04:32
15% of the cost of the ticket, provided you are satisfied with the quality of the service he/she provided in the way of a turbulence free flight and a smooth landing.

Slasher
5th Oct 2011, 04:45
Well Sully didn't get nothin.

Load Toad
5th Oct 2011, 05:02
HK doesn't have a tipping culture but it is normal to round up a bill in a restaurant or pay HK$10 - 20.

Restaurants might benefit if staff could get tips as the patchy service might improve if they could earn a few extra $$ but the establishments put on the bill an incorrectly named 'Service Charge' which is 10%. What this 10% covers is anybodies guess because it doesn't go to the serving staff. Better the staff were properly trained and remunerated.

I never got a tip for any work I've ever done. I really don't like the system - you either have pride in your job & you get paid a fair crack for doing it or you don't. Tipping shouldn't be needed to get good service - it's demeaning - it's like offering dog biscuits for a trick well done.

And employers should pay a fair wage - having to kiss arse to make enough in tips to have a fair wage is wrong.

david1300
5th Oct 2011, 06:46
Interesting to read so many of the 'non-tipping' positions. Personally, I am with BandAide (post 21) and Matari (post35) - both make a lot of sense in my world.

Nervous SLF
5th Oct 2011, 07:28
NZ is officially a non tipping country, however if a tip is offered it will be very happily accepted. Americans are up near the top of the list of people who don't tip.Even British and French people are better tippers than U.S. citizens. I have even had a good tip from an Israelie :eek:

Slasher
5th Oct 2011, 07:54
NZ is officially a non tipping country, however if a tip is offered it will be very happily accepted.

With bloody godawful high tax rates there I think everyone
would be into as much extra non-declared cash income as
they can get!

stuckgear
5th Oct 2011, 08:22
tips for tippers, and non tippers...

enJwYaeolXc

Octopussy2
5th Oct 2011, 17:00
I would be embarrassed to go into a restaurant in a country where tipping is normal and expected if I were to receive acceptable service and then fail to tip. I would feel cheap and slightly dishonest (having been provided with acceptable service by someone who had a reasonable expectation of a customary tip, only for it to be capriciously denied).

In the States, when looking at the menu, I just mentally add 15% to the costs of the meal. If I feel what's on offer isn't worth it for that price, I eat elsewhere.

Simples.

Craggenmore
5th Oct 2011, 17:11
Out in Dub Land I always tip.

As a great man once said, "Make friends with the doorman and barman and bugger the rest".

Rossian
5th Oct 2011, 17:29
....in the Fairmont in Singapore the two very young concierges went way beyond their remit and helped us out AND rescued my camera AND bailed me out of the s22t with SWMBO and were generally all round good eggs. An offer of remuneration was refused politely but firmly.

So all I could do was track down their line manager and the general manager and make sure their efforts were remembered at appraisal time. The reply from the general manager was a really nice communication - it would seem that not too many people say thankyou.

The Ancient Mariner

Juud
5th Oct 2011, 18:27
Long long ago, in a different century, our New Entrant instructor explained to all us fresh faced FAs exactly how tipping worked in the different countries and continents we´d be slipping in.

And how we, representing the company whenever abroad, were expected to follow local custom to avoid disgracing ourselves and bringing the company into disrepute. She added that a certain amount of tip money was included in our daily allowances, and that not tipping was in fact stealing from people who needed the money a lot more than we did.
She made a special point of explaining the very different USA system, and the fact that waiting staff HAVE to pay tax on supposed tips, received or not.

As we Dutch are a nation of cheapskates, she drilled this lesson into us several times, and to this day almost 30 years later, wherever I am in the world, I tip religiously. ;)

Like BandAide, I feel it is a nice way of sharing my good fortune in life with people who have done a decent job for generally low wages.

Hotel maids, waiters, porters, tour guides, crew bus drivers, parking attendants; they can all do the kind of job that brightens up my day. I know that it isn´t always nice to deal with the general public, so I thoroughly appreciate service with a smile.

Following local custom is most important IMO, you can´t go wrong by doing that.

Slash, does your employer reduce your pay for the days you function on a mediocre level? :rolleyes:

ExSp33db1rd
6th Oct 2011, 01:13
Long long ago, in a different century,.........tip money was included in our daily allowances,........


In that same distant Century, In New York, we were given 25c for the arrival day and 25c for the departure day as part of our daily allowance, to tip the baggage porter / bell hop arriving and departing the hotel. ( work out the year for yourself ! )

One evening the porter got on to the departing crew bus and said that someone hadn't tipped him. Eventually a crew member said that as he had carried his own bag he didn't need to tip the porter.

The porter replied that he was entitled to his tip even tho' he hadn't done any work.

I don't think anyone EVER thought to leave money behind for the room maid, I certainly never even thought of it, and don't to this day. Anywhere. Ever.

I recall one crew member paying a New York taxi fare and getting 12c in change ( same old Century ) and giving it to the taxi driver, who threw it out of the window.

One noticeably Gay, male, crew member left his umbrella in a taxi, and the taxi driver yelled out .. " Hey, Fairey, you've left your Wand behind " whereupon the gay guy picked it up, waved it in two circles in front of the taxi drivers face and then pointed it towards him, and said " Turn to shit "

Slasher
6th Oct 2011, 02:07
Slash, does your employer reduce your pay for the days you function on a mediocre level? :rolleyes:

I dunno - does the restaurant employer reduce the pay for the
days a waitress functions on a mediocre level? That's how the
logic of your question appears to me.

Stuckgear's RD ref are my thoughts on the subject exactly and
far more succinct.

I'm not interested in a stranger's financial problems. Its none
of my business. However I iterate if the service is well beyond
the job requirement I will tip. In the USA's case giving a tip
to someone who is simply performing their job irrespective of
standard is purely a native custom, and I'm not a US native.

...were expected to follow local custom to avoid disgracing ourselves and bringing the company into disrepute.

So did you as crew go to restaurants during layovers in full
uniform? :rolleyes:

PukinDog
6th Oct 2011, 02:19
I tip everywhere for good service, and couldn't care less if it bugs the cheapskates. Most pathetic thing in the world is to see some old Captain at a table full of junior crew with his calculator out, dividing up the bill evenly when you know he arranged the outing and drank most of wine while eating the biggest steak. No way is that tightwad leaving a tip, but will certainly die unhappy despite his extra pennies.

con-pilot
6th Oct 2011, 02:23
I don't think anyone EVER thought to leave money behind for the room maid, I certainly never even thought of it, and don't to this day. Anywhere. Ever.


I have and have done so for over 40 years, still do as a matter of fact. Perhaps I was a trend setter or just not a tight as some here.

Hotel room maids are not overpaid by any stretch of imagination and sometimes have a pretty nasty job, leaving a dollar or two a day sure the hell doesn't break me and they need those couple of dollars a lot more than I do.

You might even get some extra chocolates. And I like chocolate. :p

Oh, one more thing, I tip hotel maids in every country I visit, never had anybody return the money I left. I also discovered that in some countries I have to leave a note stating that I left the money for a tip.

Slasher
6th Oct 2011, 02:52
Most pathetic thing in the world is to see some old Captain...

I concur - we've all encountered those types when we were
FOs.

I'm noted for shouting the crew out for a good feed during
a nightstop - my crewmates earn bugger all in real terms
compared and they're a good bunch most of 'em. Most of
our layover places tipping is either not accepted or taboo,
but even then I'll leave maybe 5% if the service and grub
are exceptional (which are the sorts of places I drag the
crew out to anyway).


I was a trend setter or just not a tight as some here.

It isn't a question of being tight Con - it is a question of
financial principle. What you do with your cash is purely
your own business as long as the rest aren't pushed into
doing the same.

con-pilot
6th Oct 2011, 03:25
Okay, then I'll go with trend setter. :E

Slasher
6th Oct 2011, 03:41
You certainly must be a trend setter alright mate - one time I
nightstopped LAX yonks ago, one of the Sheraton hotel maids
inferred since I'm an airline pilot then I must have one hell of
a big pecker!

Gordy
6th Oct 2011, 05:02
I'm with Con...

I spend 3 months at a time in 3 different hotels each year. I also tend to eat in the same few restaurants nearby. My case may be slightly different to the average traveler. The staff all know me, I have my own stuff hanging on the wall, and get invited to their birthday lunches, evenings out and generally come back to home made cookies and cake etc left in my room. Instead of tipping daily, I leave $250 for their Christmas party fund.

I also tip well at restaurants....I get treated extremely well every time I go in....it is not unheard of for me to have free cab rides, free meals etc.... The cooks will also cook me meals that are not on the menu... The way I see it---you take care of the staff and they take care of you....

Karma...trust me..it is real.

Slasher
6th Oct 2011, 08:02
I don't listen to Mr Pink - I listen to the writers who wrote Mr
Pink's script. And they make a damn valid point.

As to the rest of your post you do with your finances as you
see fit, and I'll do with mine as I see fit. Sad sob stories about
strangers' financial woes don't work on me sir as I am no
bleeding heart socialist, and psychological plays such as
"titanic obtuseness" merely cheapens your argument.

When I was working my arse off in my youth in various jobs
like pulling beers, cleaning dunnies and delivering pizzas I
got no tips nor did I expect them. Taught me the value of
money and the need to improve one's position without being
expectant of a stranger's "generosity".

I'll say it again for the umpteenth time - I tip if the service and
product are outstanding and above call of duty, and I also state
I line the pockets of certain maitre d's and captains, as well as
selected staff, when it comes to important business meetings
in order to ensure the night proceeds smoothly.

I have my own places in NYC and LAX where the staff fully
understand they'll get a good tip if the service and product
are above and beyond. If they don't they get zilch.

Nuff said.

wings folded
6th Oct 2011, 08:24
Con,


Oh, one more thing, I tip hotel maids in every country I visit, never had anybody return the money I left. I also discovered that in some countries I have to leave a note stating that I left the money for a tip.


A tricky one.

One of my kinds helped fund her studies by working as a part time chambermaid.

Apparently a lot of guests empty their trouser pockets of change and put it on the dressing table, so as not to cascade money in all directions when hanging their trousers on a hanger.

One of her colleagues found such a small heap and, thinking it was a tip, gratefully pocketed it.

The guest returned to reclaim his change, and the girl was dismissed for theft. So your explanatory note might be a good idea in every country.

(In the post Strauss Kahn era, it might also remove any ambiguity over the purpose of the offering)

I think that the best idea is not to bother with hangers, and to hurl your trousers in a heap on the floor.

ExSp33db1rd
6th Oct 2011, 10:16
Maybe. But maybe not.............Just sayin'.....

Jay McInerney, Bright Lights, Big City, 1984

Knew the Gay guy, circa. 1962, heard the story from the Horses' Mouth, so to speak.

He joined the airline as a Second Steward around the same time as I joined as a Second Officer, and we flew together from time to time on the same fleet - as one did.

A million years later, I, now a Captain was positioning back to base, sat with my crew at the back of the First Class during a transit stop with a crew change.

The galley curtain opened and the same guy, now a Cabin Service Director, looked around the pax. that he was now having to look after - saw me and his eyes lit up, minced down the aisle and said " Darling Heart, where HAVE you been hiding from me for so long "? and tried to take my hand. " Piss off, Axxxx. "I said, but the damage was done,

Took me a long time to work that one off with my crew, but he was well known, so they eventually believed me - I think !

Slasher
6th Oct 2011, 13:35
Hypocrates.

Are you talking about Hypocrates (with one p) the well known
Dutch author physician?

....most of you totally ignore the homeless beggars on the street outside.

Like I said I don't tip, but homeless buggers (esp those who
are that way through no fault of their own and are more than
willing to work) are a totally different kettle of fish. They aint
the subject here.

Juud
6th Oct 2011, 14:03
Slash, we´ve shared this board for over 10 years. I know you are an intelligent man. So pretending that you don´t understand my analogy is futile.
You do not tip when you get mediocre service in the USA.
The waiting staff has to pay tax over the supposed tip, received or not.
Thus, in reality, you dock their pay for not providing you with the kind of service you consider excellent.
Which is why I wonder if you´d be OK with it if your employer docked you for the days your flying is not excellent but just mediocre.
You have not answered that so far.

You keep repeating that it is your money and you do with it as you wish. Funny thing is, nobody here has disputed that fact.
What I am saying is that yes it´s your money, but at least admit to the fact that by not tipping in the USA, you are effectively docking the waiting staff´s wages.
If you´re man enough not to tip, at least be man enough to admit that serving you costs USA waiting staff money.

*************************

svhar, the thread was started by Rollingthunder, and he gave it the title "Tipping". Who put you in charge of deciding what the thread is and is not about? :confused:

You consider the tipping system degrading, complicated, frustrating and stupid. As for complicated & frustrating; a quick Google will explain the system exactly, and your phone´s calculator is your friend if you don´t want to guess.
Degrading, maybe, but only if no minimum wage is provided.
As for stupid, maybe, but I don´t completely agree.
Waiting service in America is generally friendlier, more helpful, more attentive and quicker than anywhere else in the world. I believe their is a direct correlation between that and the USA tipping system.
If you know that your reward will most likely be commensurate with both the effort put in and the skill displayed, you have a chance to work on both and reap the benefits.
Pretty damned good system from a customer´s point of view, and possibly from a service person´s to. Although I have never asked, so I don´t know..

The rest of your post is mindlessly antagonistic, presumptuous and passive-aggressive. No point reacting to it.

BabyBear
6th Oct 2011, 14:22
Juud, the real culprit here is the US Govt. and not those who don't tip US waiting staff. I find it incredible that a tax can be levied on earnings whether earned or not.

BB

Slasher
6th Oct 2011, 14:38
...you are effectively docking the waiting staff´s wages.

Ok then....I am effectively docking the waiting staff's wages,
screwing the screwees, tyrannically insisting on an extremely
high standard of product and service, miserable cheapskate,
tight arse, have no realistic respect nor intelligent realisation
of international compensatory structures for recognised
mediums of income culture etc etc etc.

If I provide a mediocre service at work I either get the sack or
suspended a few days depending on the degree of perceived
"mediocreness" and whether I bent anything (which hasn't
happened).

Mr Bear's comments are right on too!

Octopussy2
6th Oct 2011, 14:47
If you don't like the system, my suggestion would be: don't eat out.

To go to a restaurant where effectively the "deal" you enter into with the restaurant and its staff is that you will tip provided the service is acceptable, and then not do so - well, like I said before, that would make me personally feel embarassed, cheap and almost dishonest.

Storminnorm
6th Oct 2011, 15:32
Sorry folks.
Got the wrong type of "Tipping"

I was looking for somewhere to dump my old Fridge/Freezer.

Checkboard
6th Oct 2011, 15:36
As for complicated & frustrating; a quick Google will explain the system exactly,
;)


The Original Tipping Page - Tips | US | Hotel | How to Correctly Tip a Bellman (http://www.tipping.org/tips/bellman.html)
How to get the most out of your hotel visit

or
How not to piss off the most important person in a hotel
by D. Moritz

I have been working in the hotel industry for 10 years now, and have always held a tipped position. Of all these positions, waiter, room service, and of course the venerable Bellman, how to properly tip a Bellman is an often misunderstood phenomenon. This page is dedicated to all Bellman in an attempt to educate the general masses who actually believe that Tipping is a city in China...
... and it goes on from there.

MagnusP
6th Oct 2011, 16:01
Hey, Slash, surely you believe in tipping the velvet? :E

Checkboard
6th Oct 2011, 16:11
Looking at that tipping website a bit more, and the "suggested" level of tips:

For a New York weekend, three nights, two people with four bags..

Arriving at the airport:
$4 for the skycap (guy who grabs your bags and hails a taxi for you)

Taxi to the hotel:
$4 for the bags to be dumped from the boot (trunk) to the kerb, and
$6.75 (15% of $45 taxi fare, JFK to the city)

Hotel:
$10 for the bellhop to pick up the bags and show you to the room
$15 for the Chambermaid (3 nights at $5 per night)
$20 for the concierge to recommend and book a nice restaurant/show (2 nights @ $10 per night)
$7.50 for the room service waiter, (one meal for two @ $50 in room)
$2 for the lobby attendant to open door & call a cab after checking out

Restaurants (two meals for two @$100 each meal):
$2 for the coat check attendant (2 times $1)
$40 for the maitre d' (2 times $20)
$30 for the waiter or waitress (2 times $15)
$4 for the bartender ($10 drinks each, each night = $40)
$2 for the rest room attendant (shouldn't have had so many drinks!)

Basic Lunch restaurants:
$13.50 (15% of three lunches @$15 times 2 for two people)

Taxi to the Airport:
$4 for the bags to be dumped from the boot (trunk) to the kerb, and
$6.75 (15% of $45 taxi fare, JFK to the city)

Arriving back at the airport:
$4 for the skycap (guy who grabs your bags and hauls them in for you)

So your basic weekend for two has to include $175.50 in tips! :eek:
(And that's not including tours or whatnot!)

... and as it is all in small bills, you need about 30 five dollar bills, and 25 or so one dollar bills to make through a few days. :cool:


I like this bit, though :O:

Pilots, Flight Attendant(s), Ground Crew (Chartered flights)

$50-$100 or more per pilot. If chartering a flight for a couple of thousand dollars or more, consider a higher tip. Give the tip to the Captain to distribute amongst the crew. Also tip the ground crew handling your baggage.

NOTE: Pilots and flight crew have little to do with delays. Typically, especially during peak times, weather conditions affect flight plans and Air Traffic Control will hold aircraft even if the weather seems fine in your take off city. Bad weather at your destination will cause your flight to be delayed. Ask the flight crew the reasons for your delay. Flying during peak hours is more of a challenge for the pilots and crew.

Slasher
7th Oct 2011, 05:49
....and of course pay appropriate taxes.

Hmm....nah. Pay only the absolute minimum possible that
keeps you out of jail (especially in debt-ridden Europe!).


So your basic weekend for two has to include $175.50 in tips!

Nah not really. Maybe I should go and write a book on how to
successfully avoid doling out cash tips and not get knifed.

rh200
7th Oct 2011, 06:18
This is why the civilized part of the world is trying to abolish the custom of tipping.

We must be one of the most civillised then, but it seems to be a cancer spreading though.

The waiting staff has to pay tax over the supposed tip, received or not.

WTF! your bullsh!tting me surely, how does that work, hi sir you've worked such and such and should have end this much in tips?

So if they provide [email protected] service they don't get tips, but effectivlly get fined for it?

Surely if its mandatory to get tips or should I say taxed on them it should be in the bill?

PukinDog
7th Oct 2011, 08:57
Half the people complaining about the tipping wait staff are from places where there is not only no tipping, but no service at all. You stand at a counter to order like a fast food joint and wind up having to go pick up at the counter as well. All this for a bill that's 50% more than what you'd pay for the meal and a standard tip elsewhere.

In fact, the price of going out for a decent sit-down meal, tip included, in the U.S. is lower than buying groceries at the market and making it yourself at home in, say, Oz or the UK. This can't be lost on the complainers (unless they can't do arithmetic), so I suspect their protesting has a lot more to do with them feeling like the killer deal they could get is being whittled down to a mere good deal if they leave one.

ExSp33db1rd
7th Oct 2011, 09:22
Hotel:
$10 for the bellhop to pick up the bags and show you to the room

!!!! see my post - number 50.

(In the post Strauss Kahn era, it might also remove any ambiguity over the purpose of the offering)

West Africa circa. 1960 - Flt. Eng. enters hotel room to find the maid still finishing the service, but as she was dusting the chest of drawers he threw his upturned hat on to the bed instead, then started emptying his pockets into it, as was often the custom e.g to keep everything together, but when he threw his wallet into the hat ......... the maid stripped off and lay down on the bed.

He said.

mutt
7th Oct 2011, 09:26
In my not so humble opinion the system of tipping is degrading, complicated, frustrating and stupid. I like this "stupid" system when a nice envelope is dropped into the cockpit after landing, I've yet to send one back :):):)

Mutt

ExSp33db1rd
7th Oct 2011, 09:50
........I've yet to send one back

!!!! never saw one.

( Maybe the Flt. Eng. nicked them ? )

Checkboard
7th Oct 2011, 11:37
The waiting staff has to pay tax over the supposed tip, received or not.
WTF! your bullsh!tting me surely, how does that work, hi sir you've worked such and such and should have end this much in tips?


I'm afraid that's no bullsh!t! The IRS (the USA's Internal Revenue Service) requires employees to pay tax on ALL of their income - including tips:
Reporting Tip Income - Restaurant Tax Tips (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/industries/article/0,,id=98401,00.html)

Employees are required to claim all tip income received. This includes tips you paid over to the employee for charge customers and tips the employee received directly from customers.
Now, they aren't stupid - and know that some people may be tempted to not report cash tips, so employers are required to fill out a report of tip income, and there is a minimum assumed tip amount:
As an employer, you must ensure that the total tip income reported to you during any pay period is, at a minimum, equal to 8% of your total receipts for that period.

... so if you report NO tips on your tax return, the IRS will assume that you actually made tips equivalent to your share of 8% of your employer's turnover. :eek: ... and tax you accordingly :uhoh:

And if you are in a "tipped position", your employer is also exempt from paying you the minimum wage:
Federal Minimum Wage Tip Credit | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/info_7756144_federal-minimum-wage-tip-credit.html)

As of July 2009, the FLSA moved the federal minimum wage to $7.25 per hour but left the minimum hourly pay for tipped employees [Under the FLSA, a tipped employee is one who routinely earns $30 or more in tips each month.] at $2.13. :uhoh:

.. so if you're waitress isn't making $5 an hour from tips ($40 for the day) - then she isn't making even minimum wage - but she is being taxed an extra 8% ON THE BILL value - note: not an extra 8% on the paltry money she took home.

sea oxen
7th Oct 2011, 12:11
an extra 8% on the paltry money she took home.

Does one tip at KFC?

SO
sorry, could not help it.

sitigeltfel
7th Oct 2011, 12:26
The late magnate, Nubar Gulbenkian, would put a ten shilling note on the table when he sat down. When the head waiter arrived to take his order he would say "Good service and its yours, bad service and its mine."

He reckoned it worked.

Nopax,thanx
7th Oct 2011, 12:48
ExSp33db1rd

!!!! never saw one.

( Maybe the Flt. Eng. nicked them ? )





That's cos he was the last one still on the aircraft, hours after the Captain and F/O had hit the bar :p

MagnusP
7th Oct 2011, 12:53
The only thing I dislike about the percentage method is that, for exactly the same level of service, the waiter will receive more for serving me lobster thermidor than for serving me a burger. I do tip for good service, though.

Checkboard
7th Oct 2011, 13:07
The waiter who serves you Lobster Thermidor (apart from working in the year 1970 :rolleyes:) has probably worked long and hard in the industry to gain a position in a place at the top of the restaurant trade - and thus probably deserves a higher tip for that higher level of skill :ok:

MagnusP
7th Oct 2011, 13:56
Nah, I was thinking of the same restaurant. I may go in one evening and have a bottle of £20 house white, another evening a £120 bottle of champagne. Does the waiter deserve an extra 15 quid for untwisting a wire instead of deploying a corkscrew?

Checkboard
7th Oct 2011, 15:03
Nah, I was thinking of the same restaurant. I may go in one evening and have a bottle of £20 house white, another evening a £120 bottle of champagne. Does the waiter deserve an extra 15 quid for untwisting a wire instead of deploying a corkscrew?

You don't normally tip for any wine value over, say, $10 - so the tip should be the same dollar value for both of your visits.

42psi
7th Oct 2011, 15:16
I notice that everyone seems to be hung up on the U.S. system of taxing tips.

Well folks .. it's the same in the UK !

Inland Revenue will tax tips using what they consider to be the "normal" amount, if you you wish to "challenge" the figures they come up with then you need to produce your own records listing tips over a period of time.

UK IR also have a set of rules on when you also have to pay NI on tips .. usually if collected and paid on by your employer you pax Tax + NI

IR regard a tip as a payment that's "freely given" .. compulsory service charges are not tips



So those folks in the UK who are taxed on tips but not part of a "tipping culture" may well suffer more !!

Juud
7th Oct 2011, 16:09
Juud: ... As for the quality of service in America, everybody has the right to have an opinion. Enjoy your freedom fries.


svhar, it seems you don´t agree with me on the quality of service in America.
While I might not necessarily want to know the name of the server, and I may prefer the server to wait removing the plates until everybody at the table has finished, these things are culturally decided and that´s to be respected.
What I like a lot about American service is that it is fast, cheerful and accurate. When something´s off with the food you get a replacement dish without fuss.

I often hear non Americans complain about the ubiquitous "fake" how are you today question, and the "fake" have a nice day. In my mind I always hear one of our crusty old Captains who long ago said to a complaining FO: "I´ll take fake politeness over sincere churliness any day, personally." :D

You say everybody is entitled to an opinion.
Tell me, from your experience, in what country do you get better overall service than in America?



PS: What´s with the freedom fries? :confused:

Slasher
7th Oct 2011, 16:33
Tell me, from your experience, in what country do you get
better overall service than in America?

SIN for one - no bitching, no fuss, no bullshit smiles or fake
crap, just efficiency (and no required tipping!).

Certain restaurants and hotels in BKK - (ditto).

The Istana KUL - totally brilliant! (ditto but a 5% service charge
by law, but one I'm prepared to pay in that bloody excellent
establishment).

TYO, OSA, NGO, FUK - (ditto).


However on the other hand I can't name any Western countries
who do a better service overall outside the States, but then I
biasly prefer SE Asia over Western geographies anyway.

G-CPTN
7th Oct 2011, 18:11
I can't name any Western countries who do a better service overall outside the States,

When we moved to Denmark in the early 1980s, we were surprised to find that 'service' was given efficiently without any expectation of tipping - indeed any attempts were usually politely refused.

It was explained to us that those in the service industry (a choice) were proud of their occupation and sought to perform it as well as they could.

ExSp33db1rd
7th Oct 2011, 21:44
That's cos he was the last one still on the aircraft, hours after the Captain and F/O had hit the bar

Very likely !!

( or maybe I never flew a service, or made a landing, worthy of a tip ? )

p.s. Removal of the F/E was the worst mistake the aviation industry ever made, and now, flying a single seat microlight - I are one !! of necessity )

Ozzy
14th Oct 2011, 00:39
San Francisco Restaurants Want To Make 25% Standard Tip Rate « CBS San Francisco (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/10/13/san-francisco-restaurants-want-to-make-25-standard-tip-rate/)

Now this is way overboard but in the land of fruit and nuts anything can become law...

Ozzy

G-CPTN
14th Oct 2011, 01:08
Whether a rate of 'tip' is reasonable or not, depends on whether the cost of the 'food' (or other product) is reasonable and whether it already contains an allowance to cover the cost of serving the food.

Does anybody have any idea about how the cost of a restaurant meal is determined? Every business is entitled to make a profit, but if the service charge simply doubles the markup already included for delivering the product it would seem to me to be excessive.

Rollingthunder
14th Oct 2011, 01:51
It's usually the cost of the food times 4.

Rush2112
14th Oct 2011, 02:09
SIN for one - no bitching, no fuss, no bullshit smiles or fake
crap, just efficiency (and no required tipping!).

Certain restaurants and hotels in BKK - (ditto).

The Istana KUL - totally brilliant! (ditto but a 5% service charge
by law, but one I'm prepared to pay in that bloody excellent
establishment).

TYO, OSA, NGO, FUK - (ditto).


However on the other hand I can't name any Western countries
who do a better service overall outside the States, but then I
biasly prefer SE Asia over Western geographies anyway.

Obviously there are exceptions, but I generally find SE Asian service far better than anything I have encountered in UK or Europe. Having never been to the US, I cannot comment on the service there.

What does bug me here though is almost everywhere has a 10% service charge automatically added to the bill, but when you pay by credit card, there is space for a tip. I suspect mostly tourists who don't check their bill properly just add something anyway - quite often when we have visitors from HO who insist on putting it on their expenses start to do this but if I spot them doing it in time I do.

When we were last in UK we had dinner at the Savoy Grill and I was happy to pay the "optional" 12.5% service charge as the service was faultless. That plus the thought of Gordon Ramsey charging out of the kitchen on a cloud of profanity demanding to know why I knocked it off (yes, I know there was no chance of him actually being on the premises I was just using it for comic effect).

OFSO
14th Oct 2011, 11:13
Restaurants in Catalunia, brilliant service, but must admit I rarely try anywhere new, so when I sit down (in my usual seat) a glass of my preferred wine is on the table in a matter of seconds, shortly followed by olives, bits of toast, other things to nibble on, and the menu.

In the States some idiot comes over and says brightly "Hi, I'm xxx, your waiter (or waitress) for the day" and I immediately want to puke. If you call that "good service", well, fine.