History repeats itself!

[TBM-Legend]

AIR New Zealand is increasing its stake in Virgin Australia by 5 per cent and will sit at the takeover threshhold of 19.99 per cent.:ooh:

[aluminium hail]

Maybe when the Aus govt honors open skies so Air NZ can have a shot at domestic Austrailian flights then history wouldn't need to repeat itself. NZ is at the end of a long supply chain when it comes to getting people into the country and the long term effect of Aus airlines having a seamless operation in both countries while NZ airlines cannot can only be bad for Air NZ. So they are taking one of the few options they can and cementing a long term relationship by buying a stake in V Aus. How can you blame them for that?

[Kenny]

Wouldn't surprise me if if Virgin announce a bid to join Star Alliance, before too long.

[KRUSTY 34]

Every time I go to work I have a chuckle to myself when I look at the big billboard adjacent to the Stanford hotel at Sydney Domestic.

Seems like only yesterday that the last Aussie airline to get into bed with this lot ended up by throwing 17,000 people out of work. Would've been more of course if the Kiwi govt of the day hadn't come to Air Newzealand's rescue. :rolleyes:

[billyt]

From todays announcement to the stock exchange.

Prior to entering into the equity derivative arrangement, Air New Zealand
received Australian Foreign Investment Review Board approval to purchase up
to 19.99 percent of Virgin Australia.
Air New Zealand Chief Executive Officer Rob Fyfe says there is no intention
to make a takeover bid for Virgin Australia, something he confirmed to the
Australian airline's Chief Executive, John Borghetti, in a telephone call
today.

[Jack Ranga]

mmmmmmmm, Rob Fyfe & John Borghetti.

or

Joyce & Buchannan

I would trust Air New Zealand & Virgin Australia before I'd trust Qantas.

(and if my attitude is representative of the mood amongst the punters, Qantas is in deeper **** than they ever thought possible, that's assuming that Qantas management wasn't in denial)

[TBM-Legend]

same strategy as before; 50% of Ansett first then.....

[maggot]

is AirNZ still govt owned or was the bail out just a loan/whatever?

[Kiwiconehead]

"This lot" last time was Brierly Investments and their chairman Selwyn Cushing - long gone from the landscape of Air New Zealand

[empacher48]

It appears that Virgin Australia and Air New Zealand are positioning themselves rather nicely for the eventual self destruction of QANTAS.

I guess the failure of QANTAS will be the fault of New Zealand, along with everything else that seems to be going wrong with Australia at the moment. :rolleyes:

[rodchucker]

Not sure that I look forward to the destruction of QANTAS, but I sure would like to see the end of this Executive team and the Board.

Maybe they can just beat them around a lot and then salvage the good parts with the staff and kill off Jetstar for the sham that it is.

I know I am dreaming again.

[TBM-Legend]

be selfish, don't worry about the 30K workers at QF etc...

[mattyj]

Ahh..go the warriors!?

[DJ737]

It appears that Virgin Australia and Air New Zealand are positioning themselves rather nicely for the eventual self destruction of QANTAS.


Add Singapore Airlines into the mix and QF will have big problems, which won't be solved by starting some QANTASIA type airline. :hmm:

Please remind me, which Australian airline lobbied the government of the day to deny SQ AUS-USA rights?

It's about to come back to bite them on the bum big time. :E

[27/09]

Maybe when the Aus govt honors open skies so Air NZ can have a shot at domestic Austrailian flights then history wouldn't need to repeat itself. NZ is at the end of a long supply chain when it comes to getting people into the country and the long term effect of Aus airlines having a seamless operation in both countries while NZ airlines cannot can only be bad for Air NZ. So they are taking one of the few options they can and cementing a long term relationship by buying a stake in V Aus. How can you blame them for that?

+1

Open skies has been one way traffic right since the start, perhaps the New Zealand Govt should do to Aussie airlines what the Aussie Govt did all those years ago to Air NZ. Tell them to f**k off.

[ohallen]

Do you mean Qantas Board...yep agree.

They want to be in Singapore so lets grant them their wish WITHOUT Oz options.

They don't want us, so why we should we want them?

[porch monkey]

OK, I'll bite. What's actually stopping ANZ, or indeed anyone else from setting up domestically in OZ? Or are Tiger the only ones with the balls to give it a try?

[waren9]

The amount of money reqd to achieve a relevant market share for some sort of chance of return. Thats what.

SQ hasnt achieved it with Tiger yet, what makes you think AirNZ can afford it?

[ohallen]

Perhaps the dynamics have changed.

Tiger faced two strong competitors, so the opportunities have now changed significantly with the future looking somewhat different for one of them.Never for a moment do the Singaporeans play a short term game.

It is all about positioning for the time that it will count, so unless Sir Ralph is coming on Board, there is a possibility that isn't too far away.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

OK, I'll bite. What's actually stopping ANZ, or indeed anyone else from setting up domestically in OZ? Or are Tiger the only ones with the balls to give it a try?

Nothing. Any airline can come into Australia and start a domestic operation tomorrow.

Why aren't they jumping in to do it - because it will fail.

Australia is a terrible country to start an airline. Small population, large continent and all the flying is primarily linear East-Coast movements into major "costly" airports as there are no "regional" airport to operate too unlike in the U.S. or Europe...

[framer]

I find it hard to believe that there is nothing stopping AirNZ setting up a "domestic base" in Sydeny or Melbourne. SUrely it would be worth their while to have a few jets running around the east coast as well. I mean, if they can compete with J* and Virgin domestically in NZ with only 4 mil population why couldn't they just extend that up the east coast? I think there must be something in this "open SKies" thing that stops them?

[tartare]

Mate - it's got nothing to do with open skies.
NZ have done - and continue to do the numbers on domestic Australian ops.
They know full well they wouldn't stand a sh*t show.
Qantas would throw everything at them to smash them on price, frequency... every metric.
Having said that - if Qantas continue the way they are, they might just take themselves out of the equation.
The economy of fortress Australia has been able to resist international competition up until now.
It can't any longer.
Little New Zealand had and has no choice but to adapt or die.
I reckon the problems at Qantas are symptomatic of an inability to adapt.
Flak jacket on - braced for incoming...:E

[waren9]

Exactly right Tartare.

[Jack Ranga]

They know full well they wouldn't stand a sh*t show.



Did you see how many kiwis there were at the Storm game last weekend?

Do you see how many kiwis are at any Bledisloe game played in Aus?

There are that many friggin' kiwis here to keep two domestic ANZ operations going :ok:

[porch monkey]

I guess my sarcasm was a little too subtle. I know there is no impediment to them coming here. Except posting the losses from it I guess. The post was aimed at the whiners who appear to think that big bad OZ won't allow poor old ANZ in......

[waren9]

Not sure its as clear cut as that PM.

If thats true why did AirNZ feel the need to buy into Ansett and also why has it bought 20% of Virgin?

[mostlytossas]

Let's face it. Other than expat Kiwis who would fly with them domesticley in Australia after the Ansett debarcle?

[waren9]

The average consumer has a short memory, otherwise Tiger and Jetstar wouldnt be in business. They demonstrate daily that price is the biggest factor in most Australians travel plans.

[tartare]

As someone who used to work at Air NZ, I feel able to comment.
They bought Ansett because they were slavering to get into your market (I am a kiwi who has been brought here).
But the Air NZ management then were greedy and stupid.
They didn't do their due diligence properly.
End result, they rushed in and bought a dog.
Multiplicity of types, massively overpaid staff, terrible union agreements etc.
So it just about killed Air NZ... bailout follows.
Yes - I know the Ansett tragics will hate that - but it's the painful truth.
Current management at Air NZ know there is absolutely nothing standing in the way of them setting up here, no regs - nothing.
I have been told - quote "we could go there tomorrow. But QF would kill us with predatory pricing, and the Oz government and ACCC would stand by and watch it happen."
This way is much cleverer.
I can't stand their current CEO - but personally, I'd love to see Air NZ operating domestically over here. You Aussies don't realise how badly rogered you are by QF.
For a great country - I feel sorry for you my Aussie mates.
Your economy has been insulated for so long that now you are going through the pain we did in the 1980's.
I read the QF forums on this site slack jawed at the anger and sense of entitlement.
It's like being back in the 70's again.
Read what Mike Smith - CEO of ANZ (the bank) said.
Witness the pain in the retail sector.
Adapt.
Or.
Die. :uhoh:

[frozen man]

I'll bite as well

AUS could deny all 5th freedom rights granted to ANZ, then the bleating would really start.

Wiki
The characteristic cry of a goat or sheep:*

[ohallen]

This is all about consumer demand and almost everyone has forgotten about the ANZ role in Ansett.

Any consumer who is motivated at the moment is only driven by two issues:

1. Price.

2. Qantas abandoning Australia (not really what is happening but that is how it is perceived).

DJ are doing some good things to run off 2, but they really cannot do much else given their balance sheet.

ANZ have a good product and if they enter the fray with DJ so be it because at the moment they have just about as much right to call Australia home as others.

[UPPERLOBE]

"But the Air NZ management then were greedy and stupid."

OK, let's remember that this is a rumour forum.

In the last days of AN it was rumoured that AN was paying the entire ANZ fuel bill, $1 mil per day.

Nearing the end of Ansett I personally witnessed the wholesale shipping of AN spares up to and including engines across the pond to NZ.

As far as Ansett and Air New Zealand went at that time it was surely a race to the bottom.

ANZ subsequently went broke and the NZ government bought it back.

[RATpin]

"Or the conspiracy theory"They where advised by several high profile investment companies that they were not in a financial position to buy the second 50%.(unless their accountancy practices resembled enron") Being good mates with there fellow legacy carrier in Aus and given close government tie ups,concern about QF's future and xenophobia about SA. They clearly knew the political game that the NZ gov would bail them out so it was a no brainer.
I remember the comment from the former head of the Prime Ministers Department at the time,"who gives a F---k about Ansett"(i.e. we must save the RAT at all costs)
Time changes some things,it would be good to know the truth at some time.

[KRUSTY 34]

One thing that is not in dispute. When the Ansett administrators came calling some time later and informed the new owners of ANZ that they we about to blow the lid on the illegalities, Hellen Clarke asked "how much?"

$200 mil plus change!

THe NZ taxpayers must have been thrilled!

[Shot Nancy]

They didn't do their due diligence properly.

ANZ owned 50% for four previous years and therefore had 50% board representation and full privy to all accounts.
Don't come the raw prawn and claim that "They didn't do their due diligence properly".

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well, I've been away for a while....so I'm a bit 'out of the loop'....

However, I was 'amused' when booking for Wanaka next Easter thru 'Virgin'...I got a good price, and the flight numbers are DJ8104 - ex SY via Air NZ / Mount Cook Airline/Air NZ Link.....

I guess the above explains it...

And....the return fare is around $260 less than you-can-guess-who.....
(I'm 'Patriotic'...I did ask 'Them' first...)

:} Cheers

[Sunfish]

Not only was ANZ stupid and greedy, their management was incompetent.

[Howard Hughes]

Of course ANZ could resurrect the Ansett name and all would be forgiven...:ooh:

[tartare]

True Howard.
And they could bring back Toomey and Cushing as well... :rolleyes:

[slamer.]

Last-minute Rugby World Cup fans a bonus for Air NZ


http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201140/SCCZEN_28092011NZHNSFYFE8_220x147.JPG Expand (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/aviation/news/article.cfm?c_id=556&objectid=10755110#)

Rob Fyfe, pictured at yesterday's annual meeting, says bookings are increasing as the Rugby World Cup progresses.

Air New Zealand expects a $30 million windfall from the Rugby World Cup and is still getting bookings from overseas fans three weeks into the tournament.
Chief executive Rob Fyfe said yesterday that demand was increasing as the event progressed.
"We're really happy with the World Cup demand that we've seen and in fact as we look through to October it's going to get even stronger."
Speaking after the NZX-listed airline's annual shareholders' meeting in Auckland, Fyfe there had been no unexpected logistical problems ferrying cup visitors and - thankfully - no return of volcanic ash clouds.
But some flights are not full to capacity, with Air New Zealand getting late bookings from overseas.
"As people start to see how their team's performing ... people are still deciding to come out [to the World Cup]."
Fyfe said there had been a slowdown in the number of New Zealanders travelling domestically as a result of accommodation in many parts of the country being fully booked.

The airline was originally expecting a $40 million benefit from the cup but this was downgraded to $30 million when games in Christchurch were cancelled after the February 22 earthquake.
Fyfe said the Rugby World Cup was a huge brand-building opportunity for the national flag-carrier.
"We're getting so many first-time flyers on board our aircraft," he said. "People experience our service and hopefully we'll pick up business from that."
Fyfe said the company's move this week to increase its stake in Australian partner Virgin Blue by 5 percentage points to 19.99 per cent was defensive in that it ensured no other carrier could buy in to the ASX-listed airline.
Air New Zealand paid A$32.8 million ($41.3 million), or 29.7c a share, to increase its equity in Virgin to the limit for allowed for approval by the Australian Foreign Investment Review Board.
Fyfe said the equity stake and the transtasman alliance Air New Zealand entered with Virgin late last year was the "lowest risk, highest return" strategy for competing in Australasia against its biggest rival - Qantas.
Through the alliance the two airlines code-share on Tasman routes and connecting domestic flights and offer reciprocal frequent flyer and lounge access agreements.
Air New Zealand had considered buying an airline in Australia, or moving into that country's domestic market in its own right, but decided the partnership with Virgin was the best way forward, Fyfe said.
An analyst predicted at the start of this year that Virgin and Air New Zealand - which were both keen to target the 90 per cent of the Australian corporate market held by Qantas - would be working together as one airline within two years.
Fyfe said the company had not discussed with Virgin the possibility of a representative of New Zealand's flag-carrier getting a seat on the Brisbane-based airline's board.
"But as an almost 20 per cent shareholder that's certainly something we'll now consider," he said.
"Normally, if you have a stake of that size the option of a seat on the board would be something that's available."
Air New Zealand chairman John Palmer told investors at yesterday's meeting that the "turbulence and turmoil" in international financial markets was a concern.
"The challenge for us, as always, is to continue to adapt at speed whilst utilising our innovation and balance sheet strength to outperform peersand increase shareholder returns," he said.
Fyfe said the storm clouds gathering over the global economy did not cause him too much concern.
"What I'm focused on is that, if things do change, that we can adjust our business very quickly."
Air New Zealand shares closed yesterday up 1c at $1.09.

[Stationair8]

Revenge for that under arm incident during the 1981 one day game.

[aluminium hail]

Well, since I started this by saying Air NZ weren't allowed into Aus I guess I had better eat my words and apoligise to the government of the great Commonwealth of Austrailia, it does indeed seem the Koru is allowed into the red land. I guess they just can't be ar$ed to start from scratch. :ok:

[tartare]

You misunderstand.
Air NZ's current finance, route planning and strategy teams are smart enough not to pick an upfront fight they know they'd never win.
They're not bleating or complaining - they're just quietly getting on with inveigling their way into your market - while the rat goes down in a screaming heap of disaffected employees.
Playing the long game... ;)

[OhForSure]

Tartare's posts are the only one's you need bother reading. Spot on.:ok:

[framer]

You should read mine as well as. I only have six fingers so a lot of time and effort goes into writing them.

[VBPCGUY]

Anyone who seriously believes AirNZ are going to dig the exact same hole they dug with Ansett has rocks in their heads.