Renewal of CAA License

[dogstar2]

Chaps,

About to send off for my license to be renewed and wondering if it really is as simple as I think - all my dealings with the CAA to date have included some kind of faff - usually costing me more than I expect!!

So License valid until 29 Sep 11,
MEP (land) Rating expired on 23/08/07
IR-SPA-ME Rating expired on 24/08/07

As my MEP rating expired less than five years ago I think I only need to

1. fill out a renewal application along with a Payment form and pay £136 plus £6 carriage.

2. Send in my Class 1 Medical.

Now what have I missed???

I am current on a UK Fast Jet and have an IR. Should I send in my logbook too?

And the other question - when will I have to go and do IR trg again to keep my license valid - if at all if I am staying current in a mil jet.

[Trim Stab]

Correct - you only need a class or type-rating with certificate of revalidation less than five years old, plus Class 1 or 2 Medical, plus cash. You don't need to send in your logbook as there are no experience requirements for re-issue.

You will have to revalidate your IR/ME within seven years of expiry, unless you want to redo all the written exams too.

[BEagle]

Easy one first:

To have your JAR-FCL professional licence re-issued, yes, you need a valid Class I medical and either to hold, or have held, a Class or Type Rating in the previous 5 years. Fill out the form and pay the money.

Your MEP(Land) Class Rating may be renewed by Skill Test at any time before 23 Aug 2012. Thereafter, things become more awkward:

Where licence holders have been unable to renew a MEP (Land) Class Rating for a period exceeding 5 years from the date of expiry, they will be required to complete the following requirements:

i. Complete type technical training and obtain a pass in the ground examination in accordance with the TRTO/FTO approval.
ii. Complete flying and/or FSTD training at the discretion of the Head of training of the FTO/TRTO.
iii. Pass a proficiency check in accordance with Appendices 1 to JAR-FCL 1.240 with a JAR Authorised Examiner. The course completion certificate gives the TRTO/FTO the opportunity to indicate what refresher training has been completed.
iv. The completed form should be sent to CAA PLD for endorsement together with the appropriate fee as per the Scheme of Charges.
v. The Examiner should make no licence entry

Regarding the IR, the following regulations apply:

Renewal of an IR(A)

The requirements to renew an IR(A) are based on the period of time elapsed since the rating expired i.e. calculated from the date of expiry of the most recent IR(A) proficiency check entered in the licence.

Where where less than 7 years have elapsed since the IR(A) expired but IR privileges have been exercised since in another category of aircraft (i.e. UK/JAR IR(H)) or under the privileges of an ICAO licence (Aeroplanes and Helicopters) or under a military IR qualification (fixed-wing or rotary) , the renewal requirements for the IR(A) will be based on the expiry of that other IR. If more than 7 years have elapsed since the IR(A) expired, no credit will be given for any other IR rating or qualification, and the terms set out below for more than 7 years since expiry shall apply.

• To renew an IR(A) that has expired by less than 5 years, applicants must complete Section 3b of Appendix 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240, including the flight preparation, as a Skill Test with an authorised examiner. The renewal test must be conducted in an aeroplane or Flight Simulator as specified in Appendix 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240. A FNPT II may not be used for the renewal of an IR(A).

• To renew an IR(A) that has expired by more than 5 years but less than 7 years, applicants must:

For single-pilot aircraft complete Section 3b of Appendix 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240 including the flight preparation as a Skill Test in an aeroplane with a UK CAA Staff Flight Examiner.
For multi-pilot aircraft pass a type rating skill test with or observed by a UK CAA Flight Operations Training Inspector.

• To renew an IR(A) that has expired by more than 7 years, applicants must:
For single-pilot aircraft pass an IR(A) skill test in an aeroplane with a UK CAA Staff Flight Examiner.
For multi-pilot aircraftpass a type rating skill test with or observed by a UK CAA Flight Operations Training Inspector.
Applicants will also be required to retake the IR(A) theoretical knowledge examinations.
Applicants will be required to complete theoretical knowledge instruction through an approved training provider, the amount of instruction will be at the discretion of the Head of Training.
The renewal test must be conducted in an aeroplane or Flight Simulator as specified in Appendix 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240. A FNPT II may not be used for the renewal of an IR(A)


So, if you maintain a military IR, you should be OK under the 'less than 5 years' clause until 24 Aug 2014. Therafter you will, it seems, immediately come into the 'more than 7 years' situation. That is something the CAA sneaked in without warning.

With the leaden hand of €urocracy about to descend, things will probably become even more awkward. My recommendation is that you should renew both your MEP Class Rating and IR-SPA-ME Rating before EASA part-FCL comes into force next April.

[Whopity]

To have your JAR-FCL professional licence re-issued, yes,However; if its a UK National Licence, identified by not having "Joint Aviation Authorities" directly below the CAA logo on the cover page, you will need to be aware that having had the licence re-issued, it will cease to be valid on EASA aircraft some time between Apr 2012 and Apr 2015. At that time you will need an EASA licence. A JAA licence is deemed to be an EASA licence. This will introduce an additional cost, which the current Mistress of Transport says is justified by the additional privileges, whatever they may be!

[ExAdvert]

Dogstar2,

Be VERY aware of the change to EASA licences which Beags alludes to.

Have a look at: www.caa.co.uk/eupilotlicensing (http://www.caa.co.uk/eupilotlicensing)

& in particular this document: e-June2011v41.pdf

If there's ANY way you can qualify for a JAA licence, then get one! The transition to EASA licences is almost an exact re-run of the debacle which happened when the JAA came into being in the late 1990s & come 8 Apr 2012, having a JAA licence will automatically get you an "equivalent" EASA one*

(*conditions may apply)

I'm in a similar situation - ex-RAF, ex-FJ, 4500hrs (3500 PIC), held a UK ATPL for the past decade, been using it to do my civvie job for the last 5 years but ..... no multi-crew time (because who would think a Tornado is multi crew!). When I went to the CAA to ask in person what they would do when my UK ATPL became effectively worthless in Apr 2014, they said soz mate, you don't qualify for a JAA ATPL (don't have 500 hrs multi-crew) so you can't have an EASA ATPL (which actually requires 1500 hrs PIC multi-pilot).... QED you won't have a licence. When I pointed out to them that I kinda needed one to do my job (or be marketable for any other jobs in the future) they said, "Er, sorry... that's the EASA rules".

I'd be interested to hear from anyone else in a similar situation as I feel there is a very valid case to be made against EASA's shifting of the goalposts (yet again) & the inequalities of grandfathering in some (JAA) but not other (UK) licence holders with the end result that people are stripped of a hard-earned professional qualification & effectively forced out of work! It doesn't happen in any of the other professions, does it - when was the last time a Doctor, Dentist, Architect, etc was stopped from doing their job due to a rule change (standing by to be corrected on this one).

Discuss......

ExA

[dogstar2]

My license is a JAA one and I understood that it should just continue into an EASA one, although I am now starting to get a little wary of this EASA transfer as I have no multi crewtime and am just ticking my IR over by mil flying.

[BEagle]

dogstar2, you will be unable to obtain an ATPL(A) without 500 hours of multi-crew (which means multi-pilot) time. 2-stick instructor time doesn't count, it has to be multi-pilot time in an aircraft certified as requiring 2 pilots for its routine operation.

ExAdvert, there should be no loss of privileges if your UK ATPL is downgraded to a EASA CPL. If you think that there will be, you need to write to the head of the CAA and remind him that EASA may not remove any existing privileges.

The latest version of the CAA paper is here: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/e-Sept2011_v3.pdf

[Tourist]

BEagle, isn't there a bit in LASORS that something along the lines of "multi pilot certified or a signature from your CO saying that the aircraft is always operated multi pilot in military service" or some such?

[dogstar2]

Beags,

Mine is a CPL as having done my ATPL ground exams I have never clocked up the 500hrs required to make it into an ATPL. Once we move to EASA will I still be able to upgrade to an ATPL just by doing my 500 hours or will I need to go off and do more exams??

[Whopity]

You will still retain your credits as long as you do not allow your IR to expire by more than 7 years.

[BEagle]

What Whopity said!

[ExAdvert]

Hi Beags et al,

Thanks for the link to the latest CAA paper.

I guess the only bit of good news is that we now have an extra 3 months to convert our licences to EASA ones now that the start date has slipped to 1 July 2012.

However, requirements for the conversion of a UK to EASA licence set out in the table at Attachment 4 / Annex 2 remain unchanged. I, along with quite a few others I suspect, don't quite fit into their neat pigeon-holing structure of "if you have X licence with Y hours in Z type of aircraft, then you qualify for X EASA licence". Reading between the lines, I should be able to squeeze an EASA CPL out of them which, whilst better than nothing raises the following issues:

1. At the moment, my UK ATPL technically allows me to sit in the Left Seat & act as a Captain in a multi-pilot aircraft (assuming I hold the relevant type rating). An EASA CPL would not.

2. Most job adverts (certainly most airline jobs) in this industry specify holding an ATPL..... how far does a CPL realistically get you these days?

So combining the effects of 1 & 2 above, after 24 years in flying, I'm suddenly much less marketable - surely that equates to the "loss of privileges" you mention?

It's also interesting to note some of the inequalities in the transition requirements: a JAA ATPL requires 500 hours multi-crew & this will automatically become an EASA ATPL, however as a UK ATPL holder, to qualify for an EASA ATPL I need 1500 hrs PIC multi-crew... to get the same licence!

The worrying thing is that this will now become law & the CAA are powerless to exercise sound judgement & common sense (there, I've said it!) when considering what EASA licence pilots are eligible for based on their experience & qualifications. More worrying still, Attachment 7, "Exemptions - Article 14" seems to suggest that EASA won't even consider this either!

I really can't see how it can be legally fair to implement these changes in such a rigid manner - the only sensible option would be to consider individuals on a case by case basis & grandfather them into EASA during the transitional period.

Is anyone else in this situation or is it just me?

PS. Dogstar2, sorry to hijack your thread but it looks like you'll be alright... nice one!