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View Full Version : If this is even partly true . . . Stroke.


Loose rivets
22nd Sep 2011, 07:58
On the very same day, in fact within a couple of hours of hearing a girlfriend from my teens, and friend until this day, has had a stroke, the Rivetess sent this from Texas. She tends to believe in these things, but I did catch her saying something about Columbia uni. Some good science comes out of some of these unis, and what's more, I tend to have great faith in properly conducted statistics, where 'blinds' are all but eliminated. That is after all, the tough bit in getting data out of numerical analysis.

Anyway, it's just that some of the increased risks are so mindbogglingly high that I post this link. And who'd 'v thought that some of the everyday items could be so destructive?


5 Foods That Can Trigger a Stroke (http://health.yahoo.net/caring/5-foods-that-can-trigger-a-stroke#.Tnox5RwoBp0.email)

Fareastdriver
22nd Sep 2011, 08:41
Looking through that list I should have had about fifteen strokes so far. Even more if i drank diet cokes and things like that, which I don't as I prefer the traditional fare.

BombayDuck
22nd Sep 2011, 09:01
Fareastdriver, I presume that "15 times" was per day, because everything on that list is daily consumption stuff!

Takan Inchovit
22nd Sep 2011, 09:11
Should read; "If you dont eat these five foods, you will only delay the inevitable!"

DX Wombat
22nd Sep 2011, 09:51
I think Takan Inchovit has the right idea. Unfortunately there will always be gullible people who will take things at face value and not check the research properly. Look again at that list - it mentions nothing about the normal diet of the participants; for all we know they could have been eating huge quantities of foods which are high in fats - especially trans-fats, salts etc. Just because research has been done by a University does not mean it is sound. Remember the scandal of Dr Wakefield who has since been struck off the Medical Register? He claimed there was a link between MMR vaccine and Autism resulting in many children being put at risk of death or disability. His research was believed by the gullible and those desperate for an answer to the cause of their children's disabilities. Next time you see this sort of scare story pause for thought and think "Am I eating a healthy diet?" If you can answer "yes" then carry on as you are, if not, then think of ways you could improve it. Do not promote anything as being the Gospel truth unless you have the full facts in your possession, an article in a paper is not sufficient and, as we all know from tales on here, may be skewed and some distance from the complete tuth.

tony draper
22nd Sep 2011, 11:10
The Howard Hughes method of life prelongation works fine,just stay in bed for twenty years and eat nowt but chicken soup? don't see the point of all this health nonsense just to spend a couple of extra years on this mud ball dribbling down your shirt front.
Eat drink and be merry! buggah em.
:rolleyes:

Um... lifting...
22nd Sep 2011, 13:10
Little of this is even slightly surprising. You eat things that are designed to be shelf-stable for months and years at a time (which is what most of that crap is), you need to consider the possibility that they contain things that aren't very good for you. (Why anyone would drink a diet cola, or eat a large amount of boxed crackers, and so on, is beyond me from purely a taste and enjoyment standpoint, but there you are).

Crisps and crackers cooked in what is essentially axle grease, along with large amounts of chemically stabilized saturated fats, nitrates.

Some years ago one read an article stating that the good people operating old graveyards were having trouble finding space because more recent bodies had been put into ground with such a large amount of chemical food preservatives aboard that they weren't decomposing as they should.

The red meat one is rubbish, though, unless it's all you eat, and you're eating too much of it, and fatty cuts and laying around on your arse all day and every day.

Traditional, artisan cured meats, such as jamon iberico and so forth, don't even fall into this category in my view. It's only the things that the government regulators have put their fingers in that do.

This being an American article, it may come as a shock to the Europeans to learn that it is illegal in the U.S. to move traditional hams (there's quite a cottage industry in such places as Virginia and Kentucky) across state lines.

We have our own version of Brussels... it's called the FDA.

MagnusP
22nd Sep 2011, 13:30
Today, I've had the following:

- OJ and toast with olive spread for brekkies;
- An apple, kiwi and lime smoothie mid-morning;
- A ham and salad sandwich on seeded wholemeal bread for lunch;
- chilled water all the time.

Dinner will be fish or chicken with veggies or salad, depending what MrsP has decided.

You can bet your freckin' house that (a) I'll be having a guilt-free pint on the way home, and (b) a large joint of beef or similar will feature at the weekend, the Yorkshires will be cooked in dripping, and the spuds'll be done in duck fat.

Balanced diet, thanks. :ok:

Storminnorm
22nd Sep 2011, 13:59
I've only had a Corned Beef sandwich up to now today.
And that was using the memsahib's home made bread.

Shack37
22nd Sep 2011, 15:57
KAG should be arriving soon with some more morale boosting advice on the food and drink front.

Storminnorm
22nd Sep 2011, 16:15
I really look forward to that.

Loose rivets
22nd Sep 2011, 16:22
It's just the scale of the increase, when not on a balanced diet. (groan.)



Re DX's post. I agree about the fopas, and I realize some of the sampling simply can not be broad enough when the budget is low, but the uni mentioned is supposed to be a centre of excellence.

It is a case of sorting the wheat from the chaff when assessing other people's research, but joking apart, it is the scale of these peaks that's alarming. I don't ever recall such a dramatic display of horrors in any other related work.

I said,
properly conducted statistics, where 'blinds' are all but eliminated. That is after all, the tough bit in getting data out of numerical analysis.

One of my kids is a professor of experimental psychology, and I recall when he was studying how I reacted to the mass of work on statistics: It seemed plain boring. But, as number crunching becomes more and more automatic and powerful, all that will be required of the experts is gathering enough sound data, and eliminating those 'blinds' or if you like, red-herrings.

Of course, to interpret the peaks then becomes the issue, but researchers at this level do tend to know what they're looking for.

That was interesting about not allowing certain products across state lines.

Lyman
22nd Sep 2011, 17:51
Rivets

Unlike you to be so reactionary.

There is a difference between a trigger and ammunition.

The foods you describe are bullets.

A trigger can be almost anything except food. Stress, High blood pressure, recreational drugs, alcohol, etc.

The time to avoid a stroke is yesterday, and the year before.

The body is remarkably amenable to healing.

Foods potentiate Stroke, no bullets, no fire.

El Grifo
22nd Sep 2011, 17:55
frozen tater tots :eek::eek:

Just chucked my five bags in the bin :confused:

BarbiesBoyfriend
22nd Sep 2011, 22:20
Youi'll snuff it sooner, or later.

Will it really make much difference which?

ermmm, not really.:rolleyes:

Enjoy yer grub! :)

gingernut
23rd Sep 2011, 18:13
It's quite difficult to totaly rely on some of these figures, as it's difficult to conduct a robust enough trial, to "disprove the null hypothesis" (or to "prove" it confidently- ) the "ideal" trial would involve many participants across many sites, randomised into control groups, one lot getting a diet of crisps the other getting a diet without crisps, (or whatever the variable).....and measuring how many died in each group of stroke. it a'int been done for 2 reasons, 1-its unethical, 2-there's no money in it. Interestingly, these "grade 1" studies don't exist for smoking either. (Doesn't mean to say it's not bad for ya')

We're left then with examining populations, less robust, but still of value, or, as we do in some cases, looking at proxy outcome measures, (such as lipid levels), deemed reliable enough to predict risk.

Further down the ladder of grading evidence (in fact down at the bottom) is "expert opinion."

Apologies to my academic friends if I've oversimplified the argument.:)


It's not that suprising if you think about it LR, most of the foodstuffs mentioned have been linked to arteriopathy (furred up arteries), which in itself, has been linked to stroke.

The hard part, of course, is linking which individual crisp eater goes onto have a stroke.

I hope your friend is ok,:)

gingernut
23rd Sep 2011, 18:16
It's worth remembering also, that other risk factors can be addressed, smoking and bp being the biggies.

Carefully choosing your parents also helps:p

ExSp33db1rd
23rd Sep 2011, 20:53
I remember a Flt.Eng. ( Ahhhh! remember them ) telling me that when medical science decided that lying in bed all day eating crisps and drinking beer whilst watching the footy on the telly was the right way to live - as he was sure they eventually will, as they have to come up with some new theory about every 5 years - he was WAY ahead of them.

arcniz
24th Sep 2011, 22:53
Problem with statistics is they oftimes muddle the real information you wanted to know. Probably the reason Govbernments seem to be going ta heck in a handbasket is they all rely on statistics for decisionmaking, so what results is mush, rather than sense.

Take a golldfish bowl with two swimmin in it. Pull one out & run her through the blender, then pour the results back in the fishbowl. Statistically speaking, there still are two fish in the bowl.

Strokes seem to onesself to be very much a matter of genetics, with diet and stress and wild unrestrained cavorting only incidental triggers that engage a defect which nature designed into one's bits well before one completely was one.

The stunning fact is that people mostly live a lot longer than most animals, and mostly longer now than any and all the precursor people that have lived before us.

It is not too surprising that people are reported to increasingly expire from diseases and pathologies for which there are various freshly patented and richly-priced nostrums and amulets of the pharmaceutical sort. The folks who make these things and live well off the proceeds know how to lobby the health-care industry and the politicians in the loop to ensure that a high-level of attention is paid to reporting deaths due to whatever patho-thing that may be -- with the result that gullible bored copyrighters and trapped-in-the-middle doctors gladly report ever rising incidences of the favored disease-of-the-year top 10, and maybe they're a bit inclined by commercial motives and buzz to name the diseases that are paying their kids thru med school rather than the bleedin obvious like "fat-stupid-packed with pigfat and butter and lard so bad as to be a fire-hazard in public, patient coulda-died of boredom but it sounds better to say the plumbing got-em first".

Evidence is piled in all directions that many folks who stay healthy long enough to get old will subsequently cease to be healthy because they stop using their bits in active ways and still carry on drowning their insides with food quantity and energy content more appropriate for a lumber-jack or coalie than for a shrinking bit of old meat mostly sitting on a pillow in the shade.

The way that some clearly endure - in good health and more lucid than not - is to cut diet intake to favor low total calorie high-quality Twiggy food -- the kind that tends to be quite pricey in the store but really doesn't cost more than truckloads of the cheaper old style --- because the goal is for one to eat hardly any of it, and to be genuinely glad to live longer with less traffic down the gullet.

Loose rivets
24th Sep 2011, 23:36
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . Sigh.

Plays with favorite toy suddenly apparent in right trouser pocket.


Noise of Occam's razor being sharpened. (having hastily removed hand from pocket.)


Clears voice pipe.


"Now, all these these other factors are related - kind of connected and germane, though displaced by at least six degrees of separation. But not blinkin' directly connected with the huge spikes in this specific data. If these spikes are true, they should be painted red, and have huge skull and crossbones flags atop them.

But they won't. You don't have to light them. They don't growl. Most of them are not endangered. They just make your brain explode! Nothing serious, just a little scrambling of yer grey matter.

Get poisons out of our lives I say.

arcniz
25th Sep 2011, 02:11
If these spikes are true, they should be painted red, and have huge skull and crossbones flags atop them.

Aye, there's the rub......

Cyber Bob
25th Sep 2011, 08:15
Looks like I'm Frig*ed then:eek: