Cargolux NOT taking delivery of new 747-8

[My 737]

Not as one would have expected a launch delivery to go??
The Finance Officer to leave Cargolux before year end?

From Flightglobal;
Cargolux will not take 747-8F delivery over contract wrangle (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/16/362184/cargolux-will-not-take-747-8f-delivery-over-contract.html)

[atakacs]

Whoops that's pretty short notice... seems some is playing poker.

[smack1]

suggest you dont dicuss cargolux internal affairs on line:mad:

[Hydrogen Alpha]

atakacs wrote:


Whoops that's pretty short notice... seems some one is playing poker.


Cargolux is not playing poker. Anyone who knows CV, anyone who knows their historical loyalty to Boeing and their need for an aircraft that delivers the performance that Boeing promised for the -8F if they are to survive and prosper in competition with B777F operators, will realize that this must be a very serious issue indeed.

OEW above target + SFC above target = range/payload shortfall that CV cannot live with - end of story.

Clearly the guys in Seattle have still not convinced CV that they have in place a strategy that will put the unit costs of this aircraft where they need to be.

[BobT]

@smack1: What are you talking about? It's a news story.

[Sqwak7700]

Launching a 4 engine freighter when fuel is only going in one direction was pretty stupid of Boeing. Not to mention the cockpit is still 30-year old technology with an electronic checklist.

This aircraft should take advantage of composite structures developed in the 787 and it should also have the same cockpit. How could they launch a new product that has technology that is 3 generations old?

I'm all for tweaking a good design to make it better. But there needs to be a step up to bring that product into the future. :hmm:

[Say again s l o w l y]

suggest you dont dicuss cargolux internal affairs on line

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You've got a nerve old bean. Are you going to ring Flight International and slap their wrists?

Anyhoo, what's surprising about this? My spies tell me that things aren't all rosey in Luxembourg and haven't been for a while. This just helps confirm what I've heard.

[Flightmech]

That is short notice especially as the first was due to be delivered on Monday and the second on Wednesday:eek:

[GlueBall]

"...delivers the performance that Boeing promised for the -8F if they are to survive and prosper in competition with B777F operators..."

Huh...?

The B772F vs B748 is not a contest.
Two completely different animals in respect to:
1. Nose door for outsize cargo;
2. Volume;
3. Payload.
...unless you wish to reinvent a comparison between apples and oranges. :ooh:

[mutt]

Considering that the performance guarantee is only valid until the aircraft leaves Seattle, then it makes sense to require this issue to be resolved prior to delivery.

[launchpad74]

Well its all interesting news . . .I have personally worked with Cargolux out of Johannesburg, as operations. Its a great Company, probably with its usual issues like any other. The people planning the future of the company will surely know what they are doing. There are always ups and downs. . .They are growing all the time.
Yes indeed the Boeing company needs to apply new technology to the B747 fleet. I have been and always will be a B747 and Boeing fan . . .The cockpit is one of the most noisy. And I sure hope they sort out the ventilation issues that downed 2 planes thanks to Lithium batteries igniting. One cannot compare a B777 and B747 . . They are in 2 totally separate categories . . .Lets hope it all works out . . .cheers

[Hotel Tango]

Whilst I sincerely have the utmost respect for our Mods and the difficult job they do, what this is doing in Spotters Corner baffles me even more!

[Flightmech]

Thinking the same....Surely Freight Dogs would be more appropriate:confused: Quite a big news story.

[Hydrogen Alpha]

Hydrogen Alpha . . .

Quote:
"...delivers the performance that Boeing promised for the -8F if they are to survive and prosper in competition with B777F operators..."
Huh...?

The B772F vs B748 is not a contest.
Two completely different animals in respect to:
1. Nose door for outsize cargo;
2. Volume;
3. Payload.
...unless you wish to reinvent a comparison between apples and oranges. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/icon25.gif


Glueball,

Until you have learned to comprehend the competitive dynamics of the air cargo industry, you will be unable to understand why your comment is total, utter rubbish.

Suffice it to say that;

1) nose loading is an irrelevance for the vast majority of freighter operators. The nose door often remains closed during turnarounds on those aircraft that have it, while the B747-400BCF has been a success without it.

2) The fact that the B747-8F offers 29% more volume and 26% more structural payload (but 10% less max payload/range) than the B777F does NOT render them "two completely different animals".

Every single operator that has evaluated the B747-8F will have compared it with the B777F - and many have gone on record as having done so - and the respective order books show which type has come out of that evaluation on top.

Simple fact, acknowledged by Boeing: Without the B777F, the B747-8F would have many, many more orders than it has today.

Until you learn to comprehend that the inherent directional imbalance in many major airfreight markets gives the advantage to the lower-capacity, fuel-efficient B777F (i.e. no good if the B747-8F has lower unit costs if it flies out to China with only 50 tonnes on board - the B777F will beat it on a round-trip basis every time), you will not comprehend why the major integrators and freighter operators love the B777F and are unimpressed by the B747-8F.

Time to learn, Glueball. Only then will you comprehend.:)

[SpringHeeledJack]

Problems surrounding the delivery of a brand new Boeing aircraft to the launch customer is not considered major news and gets moved to "spotters corner?"

Probably someone's hoping that this will peter out in a non-related backwater

[Hydrogen Alpha]

I can only add my voice to that of several others. I am not a "spotter", and I never have been, but I do work professionally in the air transport industry. IMHO this is a major story, with the potential to impact upon the future growth and prosperity of Cargolux, which has "bet the company" on the B747-8F.

There's a lot at stake here, guys. There may not be an easy fix, and even if Boeing thows money at CV, they will - as of yesterday - have the same problem with every other customer of the plane.

So this is one big story for Spotter's Corner........

[Tank2Engine]

Hahaha, what a complete farce to see this major news tucked away in some obscure "spotters corner" of PPRuNe! :D

[Flypuppy]

This is one of the more bizarre decisions I have seen on PPRuNe, this NEWS story only concerns one of Boeing Commercial Aircraft's major projects and one of Europes biggest freight operators so obviously it belongs in Spotters Corner :ugh:

Rumours and News should be renamed Crashing and Smoke in the Cockpit Reports.

[Sqwak7700]

Sorry Glueball, but there is direct comparison between the 747-8 and 772LRF

I ask you, what has become the staple of passenger long-haul operations? The 777-300ER. It has taken over all the roles of the 747-400. Some of the biggest operators of 747-400 (JAL, ANA, CPA, BAW, SIA) have slowly replaced or are in the process of replacing their fleets with the 773ER.

Even though you would say that they are apples and oranges, it is impossible to ignore the efficiency of the 777 coupled with the capacity of the -300 fuselage. This will only propagate to the freighter market given time.

The only reason the 777LRF is not selling really big is that it is friggin expensive. But give it time, and you will soon see most 4 engine freighters replaced by the big twin.

[Tank2Engine]

SQ7700,

Here's (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/02/10/353042/clark-777-300er-responsible-for-sparse-747-8i-sales.html) an interesting interview with Tim Clark CEO of Emirates.

Obviously the mods owe Boeing a few favours to keep this news out of the spotlight... :rolleyes: Heck, even the Seattle Times has a story (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2016231470_747freighter17.html) about it... :suspect:

[GlueBall]

"Every single operator that has evaluated the B747-8F will have compared it with the B777F - and many have gone on record as having done so - and the respective order books show which type has come out of that evaluation on top.

Yes, captain Hydrogen Alpha . . .thank you for explaining to us that Boeing had made the B748F by mistake. :{

[mutt]

Quite amused to see this in the Spectators Balcony forum........... did any of the mods actually consider the fact that some of us have actually signed contracts for this aircraft with Boeing, and therefore find this news extremely interesting?

[smack1]

Comment isnt to concern of the aircraft. Apperantly a CV employee is posting internal info regarding staff. This was not stated in the news report.
Carry on.
:D

[Flypuppy]

These are anonymous forums, how do you know it is a CV employee?

It isn't any great secret about the boardroom struggles since Qatar came on board.

[Hydrogen Alpha]

Glueball wrote:

Yes, captain Hydrogen Alpha . . .thank you for explaining to us that Boeing had made the B748F by mistake. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

My sticky and spherical friend,

Until you have learned to comprehend the developments that have occured within the B777F and B747-8F programs over the last five years, you will be unable to understand why your (doubtless) sarcastic comment has become only too true. The B777F has got better and better - aircraft delivered today have a structural payload of 106.6 tonnes - while the B747-8F has headed resolutely in the opposite direction. It has wrestled with OEW and SFC problems, some of which that have proved almost intractable to date.

[Tank2Engine]

Comment isnt to concern of the aircraft. Apperantly a CV employee is posting internal info regarding staff. This was not stated in the news report.smack1, I don't really understand what you are talking about. :confused:

Where has any "internal info regarding staff" been posted in this thread? :confused:

[Hydrogen Alpha]

Cargolux could seek capacity elsewhere after 747-8F rejection (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/17/362190/cargolux-could-seek-capacity-elsewhere-after-747-8f.html)

I'm fairly new to Pprune, and maybe I'm breaking a rule here, because I am fully aware that another thread on this subject started life in "Rumours & News" on Friday, only to be moved to Spectators Balcony. This struck me and many people (see the thread) as a bit odd, in view of the fact that R&N is stated to be a forum for "Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots."

I am a career aviation professional, not a spotter, and I would regard this CV rejection as a (potentially) major development, not least for the aircrew currently flying for all the -8F customers; Cargolux, Nippon Cargo Airlines, Volga-Dnepr, Korean and Cathay, plus those signed up as lessees with Atlas and GECAS. This is why:

- Cargolux has "bet the company" on the B747-8F, while its competitors have generally opted for the B777F, which is proving to be a stellar performer.
- Boeing clearly has significant issues with weight, SFC and therefore payload/range, on the -8F.
- Even if Qatar have recently joined the CV Board, they are still a minority shareholder. Their presence could not have forced the Board of CV into this high-profile confrontation with Boeing against their will.
- The likelyhood is, therefore, that the fixes that Boeing and GE have offered so far for the -8F are simply inadequate to restore the operating economics that are essential to CV's prosperity in the highly competitive, low-margin airfreight sector of air transport.
- After yesterday, nothing will be the same for the -8F. Every -8F customer will be speaking to Seattle as I write, seeking assurances that they will receive whatever concessions are offered to CV.
- And lurking in the background is the possibility, however remote, that the fixes CV need are not easily achievable......

Okay, the chances are that on Monday a press statement is issued from Seattle saying that the ceremony is back on, and that CV are back in the fold. If so, that's great. But that won't negate the fact that this is a very, very unusual step for a company like Cargolux to take, and that the concessions that Boeing will have to have agreed to may - yet again - change the delivery schedule for the aircraft. This must, surely, be a matter of genuine interest to many hundreds of operating aircrew around the world?

[DownIn3Green]

H.A....Glad you have it all figured out...Happy You...

[soycowboy]

Qatar Airways' recent 35 percent acquisition stake in Cargolux
puts ceo Akbar Al Baker on the cv board, himself no stranger
to mixing it with the manufacturers, puts Boeing between a rock
and hard place.. mess with cv and you mess with my airline.

[Intruder]

Most likely CV is trying to wring a few extra million dollars out of Boeing at the last minute, and is also negotiating for some kind of preferential treatment (e.g., temporary replacement airplanes) when the fixes come in next year.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Where has any "internal info regarding staff" been posted in this thread?

I suspect Mr Smack is concerned about the OP stating that the FD of said airline might be seeking pastures new before we all sing 'Auld lang syne' again...

[Daysleeper]

Apperantly a CV employee is posting internal info regarding staff.

It's hardly top secret internal stuff as CV themselves put it out in a press statement.

Cargolux announced today that David Arendt has resigned as the Company’s Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. He will leave the Company before the end of the year.

Just because the press haven't picked up on it (the rejection of the -8F makes far better headlines) does not make it secret.

But look at the timings, on the 16th you have the first board meeting with the new directors nominated by Q. You have a new Chairman, you have the CFO resigning and you have a decision to reject the aircraft.

[Hydrogen Alpha]

Downin3Green


H.A....Glad you have it all figured out...Happy You...


I often benefit in some of the consulting work I do from the information and ideas thrown up in threads on Pprune. It's not a game to me. So of course I don't "have it all figured out" - the post was my way of putting structured ideas into the debate. :bored:

[Tank2Engine]

Well, if he's talking about the CFO then I have news for him: already reported in the Luxembourg press here (http://www.wort.lu/wort/web/business/artikel/2011/09/161645/david-arendt-wird-generalmanager-des-luxemburger-freeports.php), here (http://www.lessentiel.lu/de/wirtschaft/story/David-Arendt-wird-Chef-von-Freeport-28316933) and here (http://www.tageblatt.lu/nachrichten/story/27738065).

Look at the date and times the first two articles were posted, then compare these times to the time the employees received this news from the CEO by email and then compare it to the time this thread was created. Two newspapers had their stories ready and posted on the internet before the employees found out about it. So who was leaking internal information? Certainly not a pilot, and certainly not in this thread! ;)

By the way, hmmm let's see; creating a new username, being located in Luxembourg, being totally uninformed, LPE 3,5 and immediately start threatening in his first post. Typical... :hmm:

Back to plane spotting...

[SMT Member]

What I got from the Flight Global article is that there seems to be quite few issues with the aircraft today;

Too heavy (MTOW bump already announced, which may restore payload to the advertised maximum, but at the expense of fuel burn and range)
Engines burning too much fuel (PIP1 implemented, PIP2 in pipeline)
Lack of VNAV capabilities
More noisy on take-off than projected
RNP issues

[Tank2Engine]

Interesting points Hydrogen Alpha!

I tend to agree a bit more with Daysleeper's view (http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/463865-cargolux-not-taking-delivery-new-747-8-a.html#post6704987) of the Qatari angle, but keep 'em coming! :ok:

But look at the timings, on the 16th you have the first board meeting with the new directors nominated by Q. You have a new Chairman, you have the CFO resigning and you have a decision to reject the aircraft. p.s. perhaps the mods would be kind enough to merge this thread with a parallel thread in "spotters corner" and, in their infinite wisdom, keep it in "freight dogs?" Thx! ;)

[daikilo]

It seems performance issues (weight, fuel burn, range) have been known about for some time. However, we now hear that the first aircraft may have older software standards and possibly reduced operational (landing?) capability. This would be a contractual issue also, and maybe, for instance, tests in the last few days showed that the problem would take longer than expected to be cured....

[Hydrogen Alpha]

Tank2Engine wrote:


Interesting points Hydrogen Alpha!

I tend to agree a bit more with Daysleeper's view (http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/463865-cargolux-not-taking-delivery-new-747-8-a.html#post6704987) of the Qatari angle, but keep 'em coming! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif



I appreciate your comment, T2E. :ok:

No one minds constructive debate - that's what we're here for - but after a couple of the responses I've prompted recently I was seriously beginning to wonder why anyone would bother posting on Pprune.....

[acmi48]

The new minority shareholders would also be less than impressed with boeing,s other delay product the 787, as for the dash late, its a costly item and its no good being nice by accepting something that does not do what is says on the packet.

[acmi48]

Did not like the paint scheme anyway..

[Tank2Engine]

Latest news from Flightglobal: Cargolux 747-8F dispute linked to late Qatar 787 deliveries. (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/19/362225/cargolux-747-8f-dispute-linked-to-late-qatar-787-deliveries.html)

These negotiations continue and may come to fruition as early as this week, said a source familiar with the situation.
Let's wait and see.

[flite idol]

Al Baker trying to double down? never. Are Cargolux contractually commited to release any more used 400F`s to other airlines soon. I know they had to release some to UPS based on the original time line, leaving them short and looking for lift. Hope it all gets sorted and the jets are flying with Cargolux crews soon.

[Leatherman]

Flightglobal indicating the refusal by Cargolux on-8 delivery is linked to 787 compensation for Qatar who recently aquired 36% of CLX.
Has a delivery ever been refused before on non technical terms?:rolleyes:

[Dani]

many times - when the airline got into financial troubles.

[Sygyzy]

I hope this isn't supposed to be 'news'.

After all there were two other better informed threads running long before your attempt to put your name into the lights.

[Leatherman]

My name in lights? Not since the music hall closed. But I take your acid point thank you oh illuminating one.:rolleyes::D:ok:

[acmi48]

Depends on your compliance department .. In the case of CV the national press is going to town for them .. Hot news as the cycling season has finished :O

[Dengue_Dude]

My sticky and spherical friend

Love it . . .

Mr Smack1 needs one (1smack?), this is a RUMOURS thread after all. How are we going to keep lawyers in business if we don't 'bend' a few rules?

Some freighting companies write into the contract that you're not allowed to discuss the business - is Cargolux one of those . . . ?

[Less Hair]

The Cargolux-boss is said to have stated during a union meeting today that he still wants to take his ordered a/c from Boeing. He's "in talks" with Boeing. No general change in company-strategy is planned.

only a german language source for this:
Cargolux will 747-8F weiterhin abnehmen - FLUG REVUE (http://www.flugrevue.de/de/zivilluftfahrt/airlines-flugbetrieb/cargolux-will-747-8f-weiterhin-abnehmen.66308.htm)

[dumbdumb]

Below is the German article translated into English via a computer based program so you have to decipher a little bit more of the article . . . but you can get the "jist" of it. Enjoy!


The airline will continue to Cargolux ordered by their Boeing 747-8F, Boeing removed. This signals the Luxembourg newspaper "Tageblatt" as a result of a meeting of company CEO Frank rhymes with union representatives in Luxembourg.


Rhymes have explained the trade unionists, we are engaged in intensive discussions with Boeing and the aircraft would necessarily decrease, so the daily paper. The airline does not plan to change course.

On Friday had the Cargolux Board met and appointed the acceptance of two Boeing 747-8F to Cargolux because of "contractual problems" refused by surprise. Boeing had then planned for the last Monday of the first formal presentation to cancel 747-8 to Cargolux. On Wednesday, the second plane would be passed.

So far it is unclear what could be some not, the two parties. Cargolux is a longtime Boeing customer base, which has ordered a total of 13 Boeing 747-8F.

[Jess-8]

luchtvaarnieuws.nl writes the following (summarised)

The B747-8F uses 2.7% more fuel then was promised. This was cocnluded after the variety of test flights. Cargolux already agreed on a compensation in June but since Qatar holds 35% of CLX they rejected that offer just before delivery. They now want another compensation from Boeing and from GE. GE is now working a PIP (performance increase package) for the GENX-2B. This reduces the higher fuel usage to 1.1%. Problem is that this package will be available at earliest at the 3rd quarter of 2012. Boeing and GE are also working together to modifications to increase the performance of the B747-8F

source (in Dutch): Article - Luchtvaartnieuws (http://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nl-NL/Article.cms/Technologie/Hoger_brandstofverbruik_reden_dispuut_Cargolux_en_Boeing)

[A-FLOOR]

Flight is now reporting Atlas Air is refusing the first 3 out of its order for 12 747-8Fs due to efficiency shortfalls.

Atlas Air nixes order for three 747-8Fs (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/21/362387/atlas-air-nixes-order-for-three-747-8fs.html)

[Evanelpus]

Latest rumour from Seattle is that LX-VCB will be delivered to Cargolux on Tuesday 27th September.

[Less Hair]

So who else is to take those early birds?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Lufty Cargo took the first one.

[ray cosmic]

Reading the news, it appears Cathay also joined in the game.. Interesting!

[11Fan]

Say Again and Ray,

Sources?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Flight international or the Lufty inflight magazine if you can be bothered to look...

[11Fan]

Flight international or the Lufty inflight magazine

Take a deep breath Slowly. Just asking.

Been following this and hadn't seen those anywhere.

Cheers

[soycowboy]

Think you will find Lufthansa has ordered the pax version, 20 aircraft delivery to start early next year. Lufthansa Cargo is going with the B777F via is subsidiary AeroLogic.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Spot on there. A slight stuff up on my part. Lufty took the first pax version.

Here she is in all her glory.

http://cdn3.wn.com/pd/55/f5/c6a5a57fc8fcd7698e7a98605d56_grande.jpg

[11Fan]

No worries Sas. Having had a long term relationship with Lufthansa Cargo, it came as a bit of a surprise to hear that.

Here's another look at Lufthansa's new ship, the 747-8i

Lufthansa -*Boeing 747-8 First Flight (http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/themen/boeing-747-8-erstflug.html)

This is before her final paint......

[stilton]

That doesn't look like a -8 to me,




Maybe i don't read Flight enough but that looks a lot like a -400 !




Doesn't look long enough or have those chevron thingies on the nacelles.

[11Fan]

Sas just inadvertently posted a picture of a -400 is all. He acknowledged that Lufthansa is the first (airline) 747-8i and that was the point.

[stilton]

Someone so meticulous in criticizing others knowledge should make sure their own display of that is equally faultless.



That's my point..

[Chris Gains]

It's not just Cargolux that are upset with the 747-8F it seems....

Atlas cancels three 747-8Fs
Boeing's 747-8 freighter program was dealt another blow Thursday when Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings (AAWH) canceled three of the 12 -8Fs it had on order, citing "lengthy delays and performance considerations"

[Say again s l o w l y]

Someone so meticulous in criticizing others knowledge should make sure their own display of that is equally faultless.

That's my point..

Ach, away and boil your heid.

That's my point.

As to Atlas now dumping 3 a/c too. It does point to their being an issue with the early aircraft. I'm guessing this is a way trying to get guarantees from Boeing and is more a game of brinkmanship rather than anything else.

Boeing have been getting something of a kicking in recent times. I'll bet Airbus are absolutely loving this...

[Tank2Engine]

Reading the news, it appears Cathay also joined in the game.. Interesting!
Ray, what game are they joining? Ordering -8F's? That's old news, unless you suggesting that Cathay is now joining the game of refusing deliveries. The only thing FlightGlobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/21/362343/cathay-satisfied-with-747-8f-sticks-to-october-delivery-target.html) mentions is that Cathay is sticking to delivery in October. Lufty Cargo took the first one. Flight international or the Lufty inflight magazine if you can be bothered to look... Say again s l o w l y is confusing several things here. 1) The first Lufthansa pax version hasn't been delivered yet and is due for delivery early next year. 2) They never ordered the -8F. Let's not start confusing the -8F and the -8i. And 3) yes, that posted picture is of a DLH -400 in all her glory, not an -8i! :8

Could we please stick to the thread which is about refused -8F deliveries?

[ray cosmic]

Re: Cathey, I did see a headline yesterday, but an article today denies delays:
Cathay: Boeing's Cargolux spat won't slow delivery - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cathay-boeings-cargolux-spat-wont-slow-delivery-2011-09-20)

[soycowboy]

Quote:
Reading the news, it appears Cathay also joined in the game.. Interesting!
Ray, what game are they joining? Ordering -8F's? That's old news, unless you suggesting that Cathay is now joining the game of refusing deliveries. The only thing FlightGlobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/21/362343/cathay-satisfied-with-747-8f-sticks-to-october-delivery-target.html) mentions is that Cathay is sticking to delivery in October. Quote:
Lufty Cargo took the first one.
Quote:
Flight international or the Lufty inflight magazine if you can be bothered to look...
Say again s l o w l y is confusing several things here. 1) The first Lufthansa pax version hasn't been delivered yet and is due for delivery early next year. 2) They never ordered the -8F. Let's not start confusing the -8F and the -8i. And 3) yes, that posted picture is of a DLH -400 in all her glory, not an -8i! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif

Could we please stick to the thread which is about refused -8F deliveries?



Yes, but apart from all of the above what has he got wrong?
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=6714252)

[Less Hair]

Rumours are Paine field tower opened one hour early this morning while the 1st Cargolux aircraft had been towed in front of the delivery centre late last evening. A fast and quiet delivery now?

[WhaleDriver]

I believe the Atlas thing had more to do with the first customer for their -8F's, that being GSS/BA.

[3pointlanding]

The orders were cancelled for performance issues and delays. Are the -8's coming to Atlas going to perform better? With the continuing drop in cargo traffic will the -8 be relevent for other than outsized cargo? The 777 has already shown it can eat the -8's lunch in fuel savings and distance. When I can fly from KIX to MEM at gross Takeoff..... well you get the idea. And don't forget the ancient avionics. Make no mistake there is a market for the -8 (and I am a jumbo lover having over 8000 hours in the queen) but is the market big enough? Only time and the world economy will tell.

[Pugilistic Animus]

here's some interesting news
Cargolux 747-8F dispute linked to late Qatar 787 deliveries (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cargolux-747-8f-dispute-linked-to-late-qatar-787-deliveries-362225/)

[acmi48]

Always held the theory myself, no -8f delivery before first 787 is handed over,
So first -8f in lux this weekend and i win my bet of a beer

[Tank2Engine]

FlightGlobal article. (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/747-8f-row-linked-to-ge-issues-not-qatar-787s-sources-362723/)

[ray cosmic]

From: Cargolux, Boeing and GE break 747-8F impasse (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cargolux-boeing-and-ge-break-747-8f-impasse-362778/)

Boeing, General Electric and Cargolux have resolved a contractual dispute regarding the performance of its first two 747-8 freighters and plans to take delivery on 12 October, pending the approval of the cargo carrier's board of directors.
Akbar Al-Baker, CEO of Qatar Airways, speaking at the delivery of the Middle Eastern carrier's 100th aircraft delivery in Everett, Washington, said the impasse had been resolved between the cargo company and General Electric over a 2.7% fuel burn shortfall in the new jets, whose remarks were confirmed by Boeing.
Qatar Airways holds a 25% stake in Cargolux, and will hold a board meeting on 6 and 7 October to confirm its acceptance of the first two of 12 GEnx-2B-powered aircraft it has on order.
Even with the postponement to 12 October, nearly a month after Cargolux rejected its first two 747-8Fs on 16 September just days before its planned delivery, the Luxembourg-based cargo hauler will very likely retain its launch customer status, receiving its first jumbo freighter ahead of Cathay Pacific Cargo and Atlas Air.

[hawkeye red]

Al-Baker on Bloomberg:

"Unfortunately the management of Cargolux did not take the action they should have taken during the process of the aircraft acceptance"......

That's says it all me thinks.......

[Intruder]

I suspect that Cargolux, with an order for 4 or 5 airplanes, didn't have the clout that al Baker has, with multiple orders for several new airplane types over MANY years, and an option to take much of his business to Airbus...

[ray cosmic]

Intruder, as far as I am informed, they placed orders for 13 -8 plus another 13 options. You're right, the result after Al-Baker's intervention might have been impossible if Cargolux were dealing with Boeing on their own.
In a way it is as well a shot in front of the bow for Cargolux management and staff that things might be run a little different in the future.

[acmi48]

ali babar shaking a few feathers at the lorang ..:oh:

[11Fan]

And off she went.

But Cargolux announced on Oct. 2 it had reached a tentative deal with Boeing, and Boeing announced Wednesday morning the first plane would be delivered at 11 a.m. at Paine Field. The new freighter will fly to Sea-Tac Airport where it will pick up cargo and immediately be put into service, said Randy Tinseth, vice president, marketing for Boeing Commercial Airplanes in Seattle.

Boeing finally set to deliver first 747-8 Freighter | Boeing | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News (http://www.komonews.com/news/boeing/131604023.html)

Wrong picture in the story though. You would think for a Seattle TV Station...... :hmm:

[acmi48]

Clx1js should arr ellx 13oct 0830z ex ksea.. Registration lx vcb :D

[Flightmech]

As above, LX-VCB departed KPAE for onload at KSEA at 1154 local time.:ok:

[sled dog]

Local media reporting that 1st a/c arrived evening 12th, 2nd at 10:20L today.

[acmi48]

LXVCB ata lux 13th 1020 cest
LXVCD ata lux 14th 0640 cest