ATT/Imperial/BA and all stops between

[PPRuNe Towers]

Thought you might enjoy some of this film made as support material for a new BA ad campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FXqOllhPHs

Rob

[IslandPilot]

Great clips, however the aircraft featured as a DH 9 of Aircraft Transport & Travel is in fact a DH 51, possibly the closest type to the DH 9 still airworthy - I'm not sure if there is an airworthy DH 9b anywhere.

Good to see the A.T.&T livery airborne again - my Dad was one of the original A.T.&T pilots

[treadigraph]

Nice one - perhaps the modern BA does have a bit of a soul after all!

IslandPilot, The Historic Aircraft Collection (they of the wonderful Hawker biplane restorations) recovered the remains of two DH-9s from India - one is now statically restored and displayed in the AirSpace hangar at Duxford, the other is nearing the end of a restoration to fly as G-CDLI in Sussex and, according to their website, will hopefully be completed next year.

I imagine it will be restored as it was in RFC/RAF service; and what a wondrous addition to historic British skies!

[IslandPilot]

Treadigraph, Hopefully they do, although I understand that the BA museum has been relocated from HQ to a remote site.

Interested to hear about the DH9 restorations, I participated in a visit to Retrotech in Sussex earlier this year and saw the DH 9b under restoration - it looks as though it will be finished in military trim as lewis guns were already in place. Also saw the nearly complete Hawker Fury & RR Kestrel engine - what a fantastic operation - true British engineering expertise.

Maybe the powers that be might consider painting the DH 9b G-CDLI in A.T.&T. livery in time for for the 100th anniversary of the start of international scheduled ops which is only 8 years away now.

Of course it would be even better to see a DH4a or DH16 replica (pigs might fly!) - it's all down to cash!!

[A30yoyo]

Where has the BA Museum (BA Heritage Centre?) gone?

[IslandPilot]

Not sure - I heard that it had been relocated

Book Flights, Hotels, Holidays, Car Rental with British Airways - BA.com (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/museum-collection/public/en)

gives contact info.

Ref my previous post, it should of course refered to Vickers Guns installed in the DH 9b in Sussex

[treadigraph]

Ah, you know far more about it than I!

If I happend to win the EuroMillions tomorrow, I shall commission a DH-4 replica...

I'm sure I saw a DH-4 in the US some time ago, might have been with Kermit Weekes?

[IslandPilot]

Yes what couldn't we do with the Euromillions, I believe that there was a serious plan to build a full size replica of the HP 42 a few years back - suitable drawings still exist - probably now a victim of the recession.

Not sure about the DH4 in the Kermit Weekes collection, but there is a US built Liberty engined DH4 in the Smithsonian Collection, also I believe that there is an airworthy Liberty powered example in the US configured as a US Mail aircraft.

[scotbill]

BA Heritage museum is still at Waterside (BA HQ) as far as I know

[Albert Driver]

Something missing here.



There doesn't seem to be any pictures of the JCBs breaking up the VC10, 707 and the other treasures of the BA Historic Aircraft Collection at Cosford a year or two ago.....

.

[ZOOKER]

A great shame that G-ASGC was not re-painted in the correct livery for this. The cheatline is still incorrect, the lettering was in gold-leaf, and the 'Speedbird' is the wrong shape.

[treadigraph]

There doesn't seem to be any pictures of the JCBs breaking up the VC10, 707 and the other treasures of the BA Historic Aircraft Collection at Cosford a year or two ago.....


Indeed, hence the reference to soul. I presume that BA prefers history to be "media" rather than "artifact". :(

[Jhieminga]

There doesn't seem to be any pictures of the JCBs breaking up the VC10, 707 and the other treasures of the BA Historic Aircraft Collection at Cosford a year or two ago.....

If that's what you want:
http://www.vc10.net/History/Individual/Images/G-ARVM_dismantled2.jpg

On the other hand, there was more to this story than just BA 'forgetting' about their history. Perhaps the fallout from that episode has taught them the value of their history and this has led to the current ad campaign. The fact that G-ASGC got a touch up (incorrect in some ways but still) can be seen as one plus.

[A30yoyo]

BA's 'modern' history is quite interesting....the smaller operations by susidiaries and franchisers and what about GO....wasn't that owned by BA?

Twin Otter on Barra Beach
[/U]]Photos: De Havilland Canada DHC-6-300 Twin Otter Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways-(Loganair)/De-Havilland-Canada/0960937/L/&sid=19dbac564387c96dfe75d6f2216b5200http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6061/6112892553_2930cba71f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/indiaecho/6112892553/)
OY-NCA (http://www.flickr.com/photos/indiaecho/6112892553/) by IndiaEcho Photography (http://www.flickr.com/people/indiaecho/), on Flickr

Concorde replacement by A318 LCY-JFK
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6195/6112551045_7b5044200d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/indiaecho/6112551045/)
G-EUNB (http://www.flickr.com/photos/indiaecho/6112551045/) by IndiaEcho Photography (http://www.flickr.com/people/indiaecho/), on Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/4975468754_350537d1a2_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46423105@N03/4975468754/)
Go Fly Boeing 737-36N; G-IGOP, October 1999/ DDD (http://www.flickr.com/photos/46423105@N03/4975468754/) by Aero Icarus (http://www.flickr.com/people/46423105@N03/), on Flickr

[WHBM]

That Dornier 328 in BA colours at London City is not history - still operates a couple of times a day from there to Billund in Denmark, BA flight numbers et al. Some of the franchises are still going.

Go was initially owned by BA, but was sold off to be independently owned some time before Easyjet bought them out.

Now, regarding the film clip, very good and thanks for posting it. A few little inaccuracies in the commentary, but never mind. I do wonder, however (and PPRuNe is a good place to ask this), why it is that pilots are chosen as the face of the business rather than the executives at the top, running the business. Perhaps if they genuinely supported the cause of the heritage, and spoke about it publicly, we wouldn't end up with travesties like the demolition at Cosford.

[Dan_BA]

Great clips, however the aircraft featured as a DH 9 of Aircraft Transport & Travel is in fact a DH 51, possibly the closest type to the DH 9 still airworthy - I'm not sure if there is an airworthy DH 9b anywhere.

Good to see the A.T.&T livery airborne again - my Dad was one of the original A.T.&T pilots

Hello IslandPilot

In the making of the Aviators Film, meticulous attention to detail was central to its production.

Aircraft were chosen based on historical importance, but also it was essential that some of the aircraft flew, rather than rely solely on historical archive footage to bring our story to life.

The DH .51 was chosen as a closest aircraft to represent the DH.9 as it was the closest aircraft type still airworthy.

Thanks
Dan, on behalf of British Airways

I am working for an agency acting on behalf of British Airways, having been given permission to respond to any queries pertaining to the advertising campaign. You can find out more at facebook.com/britishairways For any specific customer service queries, please go to ba.com/contactus

[Dan_BA]

A great shame that G-ASGC was not re-painted in the correct livery for this. The cheatline is still incorrect, the lettering was in gold-leaf, and the 'Speedbird' is the wrong shape.

Hi Zooker

Thanks for your comment. The Airline Livery of each plane in each era was also the subject of some scrutiny for historical accuracy.

Throughout the production, every detail, from the aircraft to the stewards and stewardess' uniforms were checked with the British Airways Heritage Centre to ensure historical accuracy.

The British Airways Heritage Centre was very much part of the production team to ensure as accurate a representation of each era as their archives allowed.

Thanks
Dan, on behalf of British Airways

I am working for an agency acting on behalf of British Airways, having been given permission to respond to any queries pertaining to the advertising campaign. You can find out more at facebook.com/britishairways For any specific customer service queries, please go to ba.com/contactus

[WHBM]

Hello Dan BA

Thank you for joining us, I hope you find all the detailed notes here of some value.

Regarding the film clip:

AT&T London to Paris : "The world's very first commercial air service". I think you will find it is generally regarded that the world's first commercial service was what is known as the St Petersburg-Tampa Airboat Line in Florida, which started operations with commendable twice-daily regularity in 1914; tickets were sold by local newsagents.

Wikipedia is no authoratitive source, but just for your info it does seem to be correct here :-

St. Petersburg-Tampa Airboat Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg-Tampa_Airboat_Line)

There were a number of other prior contenders both pre- and post-WW1 as well.

......

The DH89 that has been restored to pre-war Imperial Livery : "Similar looking to the DH86 that Imperial actually had". That is a bit unfortunate; the DH86 was a four-engined aircraft, whereas the DH89 was a smaller type with only two engines. I think that you would expect on a pilot's website of all places to be picked up quite quickly for this !! Apart from this, they were quite different in appearance at most points. It's like saying the Boeing 777 is similar looking to the Boeing 747.

DH86 :-

Archivo:DH.86 Express G-ADVJ Bond Air Services.jpg - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:DH.86_Express_G-ADVJ_Bond_Air_Services.jpg)

DH89 :-

File:Dragon rapide g-aeml flying arp.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dragon_rapide_g-aeml_flying_arp.jpg)

The DH89 was far and away the most popular British pre-war light airliner with the many British airlines of the time, and it is indeed surprising that Imperial was about the only operator not to have them.

Don't let me detract from it being very nice to finally look at one in their colours.

[A30yoyo]

This would have been a historically valid Rapide in the history of the national airline (predecessor of BEA)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5395530987_5fa4ce06e4_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerowebspace/5395530987/)
DH.89 Dragon Rapide (G-AGJG) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerowebspace/5395530987/) by Ranger BP (http://www.flickr.com/people/aerowebspace/), on Flickr

[A30yoyo]

I was just trying to show that on the fringes BA is quite interesting and sporty.......not all Heathrow and Waterside!

Why did they get rid of GO...it was excellent.

I'm not going to mourn the VC-10....it costs a fortune to preserve aircraft....the 707-436 had a lot of history (but not particularly the cockpit :)) but isn't there a Conway 707 saved in South Africa?

[LAS1997]

What a pity the DH Trident did not feature. There is a complete one at Duxford (next to the VC10 that featured) and the working flight deck of a Trident three at the FAST museum, Farnborough.

It was nice to see the VC10, but a contribution from short haul (1960's - 80's) in the form of a Trident would have been welcome.

Does the Viscount feature? Once again a very nice 700 series in BEA colours from the 1950's also resides at Duxford.

[A30yoyo]

Something about this advertising theme of BA's makes me think of the Hovis ads on TV probably back in the Seventies

[A30yoyo]

Found on this thread
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/464250-new-ba-advert-good-old-days.html

British Airways - Our advert 2011: To Fly. To Serve. - YouTube

Very patriotic....just the ticket!

[IslandPilot]

WHBM

The flights operated by A.T.&T on 25th August 1919 marked the opening of the first sustained scheduled international civil air service for passengers and freight in the world, following the lifting of restrictions at 0001 on 25/08/1919.

An important landmark in the history of international air transport

[WHBM]

WHBM

The flights operated by A.T.&T on 25th August 1919 marked the opening of the first sustained scheduled international civil air service for passengers and freight in the world, following the lifting of restrictions at 0001 on 25/08/1919.
Have to disagree here. The film clip doesn't say "international". That's always a good way of excluding the Americans, but even so is not correct, as a prior international route is the French Farman company, operating regular and scheduled flights from Paris to Brussels from March 1919 using a Caudron 23 (fares and schedules were even advertised in UK newspapers). By summer 1919 the Germans and others were also running air services; the British were actually quite late on the scene. Part of the issue was that flying was regulated by the Air Ministry, which embraced both civil and military flying, and the civil servants gave all their time and their budget to their friends in the RAF.

"Sustained" is also a bit stretched - AT&T stopped flying in December 1920, as did all it's British competitors (the French were continuing), following which there was a period of no British civil air services at all.

Still not picking at this great and enjoyable ad, just trying to get historical accuracy.

[IslandPilot]

WHBM
I agree that this ad is a fine effort - the DH 51 does bear a strong resemblance a DH9b especially in the ground to air shots.

Regarding historical accuracy, I omitted the word "daily" from the requirements fulfilled by the A.T.&T. London - Paris service in August 1919. The Farman Paris - Brussels service in March 1919 was a weekly service. There is an excellent summary of the early attempts to establish air services at The Birth of Air Transport « European Airlines (http://www.europeanairlines.no/the-birth-of-air-transport/)

Regular international air services from the UK could not begin until the government implemented the ICAN agreement on 25th August which was the reason for the delay not down to any Air Ministry bias - indeed they published the ANO's at the earliest opportunity.

I don't want to drift too far from the subject, so maybe we should start a new thread if you would like to continue a discussion on the historical accuracy theme.

[wrecker]

What a shame no mention of the:-
Heron
Viscount
Vanguard/Merchantman
Trident
Etc