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arse
14th Sep 2011, 07:32
Gee I hope not!

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/09/07/libya.missing.arms/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/09/07/libya.missing.arms/index.html)

Hedge36
14th Sep 2011, 08:14
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/463138-libyan-manpads-go-missing.html

westhawk
14th Sep 2011, 08:45
So these missiles will be added to the ever present global black market inventory of pilfered weapons. I guess it shouldn't shock anyone that more than just the people of Libya have been "liberated". It seems to happen just about every time a government topples. It's not as if the very same types of weapons cited in the CNN article haven't been available on the black market for decades either.

We are indeed fortunate that these things haven't been used against civilian planes right in our own back yards yet. The work done by Western intelligence and security agencies to keep it that way is one thing most aviators don't mind seeing our tax dollars allocated to. I sure hope they remain up to the task.

SMT Member
14th Sep 2011, 09:01
We are indeed fortunate that these things haven't been used against civilian planes right in our own back yards yet.

I suppose that depends on your definition of back yards, but given that this is a site with a global following that's rather a large yard. Someone did fire a SAM at an El Al aircraft out of Africa, Nairobi if memory serves me right.

westhawk
14th Sep 2011, 09:06
I suppose that depends on your definition of back yards

You're right of course. I unfortunately failed to preface the statement with a location reference. I am aware of another instance in Africa involving a Hawker and believe there was at least one other occurrence I don't recall the details of.

Good memories
14th Sep 2011, 09:08
Actually in 2002 at Mombassa.

westhawk
14th Sep 2011, 09:24
Looks like the Hawker was hit by a dud air to air weapon not a SAM.

Old PPRuNe thread (http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/99330-jet-might-survive-missile-strike.html)

westhawk
14th Sep 2011, 09:33
The other one was a Falcon 50 in 1994. The presidents of Rwanda and Burundi were killed along with 10 others when the jet was struck by two missiles while on approach to Kigali airport. Wiki link
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Juv%C3%A9nal_Habyarimana_and_Cyprien_Ntarya mira)

captjns
14th Sep 2011, 15:45
Yepp... those ladies and gents from NATO and the UN certainly earned their paychecks by letting those toys slip through their hands:mad:. Well done:ugh:.

The Ancient Geek
14th Sep 2011, 16:11
Most of the shoot downs have been in Africa, Mugabe and his team of terrorists^Wfreedom fighters shot down several airliners in Rhodesia in the 1970s.

westhawk
14th Sep 2011, 19:10
Yepp... those ladies and gents from NATO and the UN certainly earned their paychecks by letting those toys slip through their handshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif. Well done:ugh:.
I'm sure you or I would have achieved a better result Cappy! :cool:

All we would have needed is unlimited sanction to invade and secure Libya without regard to the cost or consequences. Yeah, that would have worked out well!

The simple fact is that these weapons have been available to whoever really wants them and has a little money to spend for decades. Why they have not yet been used against an airplane in a city like London or Los Angeles is probably attributable to some combination of security efforts and good fortune. May both continue to be in force.

osmosis
15th Sep 2011, 00:41
Only yesterday did I listen to a once-member of the UN recite how they were tipped off about several massive ordnance caches hidden in and around Rwanda all those years ago. The rumours seemed to confirm each other so finally the in-situ but monolithic UN allocated a taskforce to search. What they found astonished them. The massive, MASSIVE amounts of arms in several caches was too hard to comprehend for those there. Where did all this come from? With the political unrest it was easy to assume who was likely to use it but the order came down to ignore it all and walk away. So the UN turned it's back and the rest is history. No doubt the contents was disbursed and at least in part used but how much of it remains scattered throughout... where? Rwanda? Africa? Years later, a taskforce was setup to find the sources of supply. The paper trail zig & zagged through too many western countries to mention, embroiling us all. Kinda makes a mockery of patting down a 3 year old child at airport screening.

CelticRambler
15th Sep 2011, 22:18
Well, at least Nicolas Sarkozy's happy. He's had a consignment of miscellaneous weaponry burning a hole in a hangar up the road from me that should have been delivered to his mate in Tunisia. If the new Libyan governement is missing a load of stuff, he'll have someone to sell it to.

And maybe the rest of us won't have be be iris-scanned, fingerprinted and DNA tested every time we want to walk past. :uhoh:

ZOOKER
16th Sep 2011, 00:32
"Route direct to Mujahadeen Cross". :uhoh:

FLCH
16th Sep 2011, 02:13
"Route direct to Mujahadeen Cross".

You owe me a beer and a new computer thanks to that !!

Cheerio
18th Sep 2011, 07:57
AFP: US embassy in Algiers issues warning about Al-Qaeda threat (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hB2N0kX6lJNCGR3ULcmr9TBQqPQw?docId=CNG.b6d207691ba28c0 711d32cc4f2496bd7.2c1)


The US embassy in Algiers is warning potential targets about an Al-Qaeda threat to launch missile attacks against planes chartered by foreign oil firms in North Africa, officials said Friday.

corsair
18th Sep 2011, 10:29
This is just a repeat of the scare stories about Stinger missiles falling into the hands of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Nothing new there.

Maybe the wrong people will get their hands on some. Maybe they will try and bring down an airliner. But as others pointed out. These things are readily available for a long time. So the threat level has hardly increased.