Morale in the Armed Forces

[LFFC]

Morale in armed forces plunges to new low (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8754601/Morale-in-armed-forces-plunges-to-new-low.html) - The Telegraph 10 Sep 11

More than half of all officers and 43 per cent of other ranks, believe the armed forces is suffering from low morale following a year of pay freezes, cuts and redundancies. Satisfaction with life in the services has fallen, along with levels of pride and feelings of being valued.

In the RAF, only two per cent of officers – many of whom are taking part in operations in Afghanistan and over Libya – believe morale is high and 70 per cent state it is low.

The figures are the worst since the Armed Forces Continuous Attitudes Survey began four years ago. Satisfaction with basic pay, pension and allowances has fallen and many feel it is not safe to challenge the way things are done in their service or within the MoD.

How very sad!

[Admin_Guru]

'LOW' is not strong enough a word.

*Those made redundant have a year to spread their discontent.
*Those who volunteered for redundancy and did not get it have years to spread their discontent.
*There will be a PVR spike now that Manning will; in the main, welcome.
*The delay to the announcement of the next redundancy catchment criteria will cause uncertainty and associated discontent.
*Understaffing caused by soon to be ex-employees still on the books but (rightfully) engaged in resettlement is already causing discontent.
*Pulling out of Afghan in the belief that soon afterwards nothing will have changed will cause anger and bitterness.
*The lack of trust already present in towards CoC is bound to intensify.
*As I said, replace 'Low' with subsurface and you are getting near to the truth.
"Living the dream" has most certainly been replaced with "Same sh17 different day" .....and I know of at least one choreographed det to Afghan to survive tranche one; sanctioned by the CoC. :=

It probably would have been better for all concerned to have massacred the military in a oner in order that we all get on with our lives dealing with whatever cards have been dealt. The uncertainty is creating a dreadfull 3 years for all and the lack of management and interpersonal skills of some is not good to see.

On a positive note...... mmmm.... struggling with that one.

[TBM-Legend]

All leave is cancelled until morale improves......:hmm:

[FFP]

All leave will be cancelled next summer due to the Olympics though :E

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

You don't need morale when you have discipline and don't forget a day out of uniform is a day wasted!

[Siggie]

Admin Guru,

It comes as no surprise that a PVR spike is expected to occur, after all, that is why only 80% of the required redundancies (aircrew) were attempted in the first tranche.

It is hoped that people will fall for the ploy and PVR, thus achieving the required manpower reductions in a much cheaper way.

Morale was badly affected by refusing to accept volunteers for redundancy and selecting really good people for compulsory redundancy, all of the people involved satisfied the criteria for redundancy.

The only reason I can see for not accepting some of the volunteers is that they were assessed as likely to PVR if they didn't get selected.

The selection of the compulsory candidates was to get rid of people who would stay in and not PVR and they therefore had to be given the boot.

It also seemed that it very much depended on how easy it would be to replace certain people in selected posts and in many instances, it didn't matter how you had been reported over your 'career', but what post you were in or about to occupy during the selection and implementation phase.

On The Top Bunk,

either that was so tongue in cheek that I missed it or,

you haven't taken your medication today.

[Scuttled]

Siggie,

Where does the figure of 80% of required aircrew redundancies originate? Is that a correct number, with evidence to support, or just a ballpark guess?

Thanks.

[Siggie]

I will check with the person who told me about his source and post it on here, like you, I'm following this from a distance.

[Scuttled]

Thanks Siggie - my apologies, I should have seen your location and realised you were also away from the hub of things.

Any information, or even rumours backed up by extremely tenuous facts, always appreciated.

[Wyler]

I have given 30 years of my life to the RAF in one form or another and I cannot remember a single year where there was not talk of low morale, poor leadership and threats of PVR. So it will be very interesting to see what the actual figures for PVR turn out to be.
The UK economy is stuffed and is going to get a whole lot worse over the next few years so walking away from a job that still brings with it many perks, medical, dental etc etc is going to have to be thought through very carefully. I can't help but think that some people are incredibly naive if they think they are going to stroll into a better deal. Some will of course but most will not.
I do agree the RAF is sliding downhill at the moment and I also agree it is a lack of leadership. Too many MBAs, pamphlets and management speak for my liking, usually practised by those who cannot communicate in any other way. nevertheless, do not underestimate the good deal that you have in todays climate. Throw it away at your peril.
As for morale, pretty good amongst the youngsters because they know no different. It will take them at least another 5 or so years before they register for PPRUNE :E

[Lima Juliet]

A few months ago, When I PVR'd (applied for Early Termination - sounds like Dignitas!), you can put down the reasons that made you want to leave. Low and behold, 1 month later, when the PVR was finally accepted there was a JPA workflow saying that they had been changed for me!! No wonder the attitude survey is always better than the real situation...:ugh:

LJ

[VinRouge]

The threats of PVR are very branch and trade specific. No worries if you cost 99p to train and work in PSF, bit more of a problem for the RAF when it comes to the individuals who operate at the sharp end (ATC, Engineering and some aircrew!) and cost a significant amount to train.

The number of PVRs is fairly significant, but nowhere near as significant as the number that seem to be taking an option and/or leaving at the 38 point. With corporate experience outside of the desert environment and low tech threat area being at a premium, we are going to do serious damage if we cant retain at least some of our old and bolds.

Having spoke to a few techies, mannings policy of scaling back some ranks by 25% is frankly barking. Many the engineering world are going to lose have experience of their type that cant be replaced by a quick course at cosford. The civvie world would be aghast at the thought of binning individuals as they are reaching their prime, on the basis that they are not progressing up the management ladder and instead are more than happy with their lot in their current rank. Is there an arguement for retention incentives or at least 5-6 year postings for a few star individuals who are happy in current rank and in their current role? Here is a tip, why not retain the guy who can clear the AV snag in 5 minutes whilst we wait to launch on tight crew duty, rather than the guy that runs the tea bar and gets written up well for it? Most of those engineers recently leaving for sunnier climes didnt only do it for the cash, job security probably also played a part. They were some of our best people. I also think the devisiveness of pay 2000 that sees a psf blondie payed the same or more as someone completeing aircraft engineering trade training at Cosford is something that needs sorting pronto. Chances with the blunties controlling the purse strings? Not a chance.

[Ken Scott]

I was intrigued by the 2% of RAF Officers who believe that morale is actually high (source: Sunday Telegraph). Who are these people, and how soon can they be promoted into the highest ranks? On second thoughts they may be all the Air Ranks (they must make up about 2% of the Officer Corps).

[TwoTunnels]

Who on earth were those 2 percent of officers who thought that morale was high!!!! CAS and the rest of the SLT me thinks.:ugh:

[occhips]

VinRouge

"The threats of PVR are very branch and trade specific. No worries if you cost 99p to train and work in PSF, bit more of a problem for the RAF when it comes to the individuals who operate at the sharp end (ATC, Engineering and some aircrew!) and cost a significant amount to train. "

And what Air Force might you be in team player?:= :ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

And what Air Force might you be in team player?:= :ok:

Maybe 99p is a couple of quid short of the mark but other than that he does have a point :ok:

[glad rag]

Well said re-pay2000.
One of the [more minor] items to disenfranchise me was the loss of the extra few days leave I was due having eventually survived options for change, front line first etc,etc and be promoted to "the mans mess".
Another kicker was going back to doing the same duties as Ord Sgt that I carried out as Ord Cpl **years previously, namely signing out keys whilst on duty in the guardroom, hard earned senority/RHIP?

Yep, take this job and shove it sprang to mind.

** No hot pursuits through the domestic sites anymore though, boring huh.

[occhips]

Actually SFFP you have a point. Why not get rid of the engineers and let contractors do the work? You could keep a small pool of deployable engineers and let contractors do the work, i mean after all costs would be cheaper? We do seem to always have a lot of them sitting around in T bars not doing a great deal, be much easier to save money on them :ok:! You could save on training costs too, I mean VinRouge obviously judges value added to the RAF on the length of how long techie training is at Cosford:ok:

You could easily stick the ATC in with this as well and of course the 99p Administrators. None of us who do not sit in cockpits are infallible!

I am only joking of course, there are all sorts that make up the team, but and i say this from a very learned view point, all of us are here to put planes in the Air and all are as important as each other.

[VinRouge]

Sorry chips, might have come across as rude and not tongue in cheek as it was meant. There are those in all trades/branches that seem to thrive off making others lives either abject misery or bend over backwards to help. I have encountered both in admin (fortunately most have been fantastic help), undoubtedly as money is involved when it comes to admin, their faux pas and sticking to the rules despite the operational imperative means these examples are the ones that spring to mind first. The very few individuals in the admin trade (CS included) that love to hate anyone outside of that world and lack understanding from others point of view who are trying their best in difficult circumstances doesnt help

. But then again, my tongue in cheek comment above probably reinforces their point of view doesnt it!:ok: I have to disagree about the gingers though, I think it fundamentally wrong that someone with expensive transferrable skills who spends longer in training is lower down the payscale as a result of that training. It also seems that the admin community peeps get promoted quicker too.

[occhips]

VR, in all honesty, most of the Admin Branch do not understand how tricky life is outside of SHQ sometimes as they do not get exposed to the constant grind of Sqn Detachments and fluidity that makes up the front end of the train. Most want to help and try their best but it is a different culture. Ref your point about pay, different arguments ranging from the engineer fixing a multi million pound engine to a blunty managing a raft of HR issues both with different outputs but with the same end state - getting aircraft up in the sky!

Pay 2000 - one of the worst things to happen to the RAF in years!

Trust me - the bluntys do not hold the purse strings!

[Ken Scott]

VR, in all honesty, most of the Admin Branch do not understand how tricky life is outside of SHQ sometimes as they do not get exposed to the constant grind of Sqn Detachments and fluidity that makes up the front end of the train.


Any yet it's always someone exposed to that constant grind of detachments that gets Christmas Day Orderly Officer for example, not one of the Monday-to-Friday 'Base Support Wing' wallahs!

[Kengineer-130]

The threats of PVR are very branch and trade specific. No worries if you cost 99p to train and work in PSF, bit more of a problem for the RAF when it comes to the individuals who operate at the sharp end (ATC, Engineering and some aircrew!) and cost a significant amount to train.

The number of PVRs is fairly significant, but nowhere near as significant as the number that seem to be taking an option and/or leaving at the 38 point. With corporate experience outside of the desert environment and low tech threat area being at a premium, we are going to do serious damage if we cant retain at least some of our old and bolds.

Having spoke to a few techies, mannings policy of scaling back some ranks by 25% is frankly barking. Many the engineering world are going to lose have experience of their type that cant be replaced by a quick course at cosford. The civvie world would be aghast at the thought of binning individuals as they are reaching their prime, on the basis that they are not progressing up the management ladder and instead are more than happy with their lot in their current rank. Is there an arguement for retention incentives or at least 5-6 year postings for a few star individuals who are happy in current rank and in their current role? Here is a tip, why not retain the guy who can clear the AV snag in 5 minutes whilst we wait to launch on tight crew duty, rather than the guy that runs the tea bar and gets written up well for it? Most of those engineers recently leaving for sunnier climes didnt only do it for the cash, job security probably also played a part. They were some of our best people. I also think the devisiveness of pay 2000 that sees a psf blondie payed the same or more as someone completeing aircraft engineering trade training at Cosford is something that needs sorting pronto. Chances with the blunties controlling the purse strings? Not a chance.

I was an SAC(T) Sootie/rigger, I left the RAF in April this year, and having spent 11 years on type I am still getting phone calls for help on issues with the aircraft that people have not seen before.

The sad fact of the matter is that Engineers are massively undervalued by the RAF, and never seem to get praise for thier work :=. I have walked into a basic mechanic job whilst I accrue log book entries & a years civil aircraft experience before I can use my B1/2 licence, but it is already paying me more than a top level SAC(T)/JT by a considerable margin. The amount of experience the RAF is losing at the moment is horrific, Of my entire shift on leaving, only about 10% of people were planning on staying, with many people leaving at 9 or 12 year exit points that are not reflected in PVR stats.

Personally I really hope that they end up with a huge experience & manpower black hole, then the powers that be may be forced to improve conditions for the poor sods who remain in.

Fo anyone considering leaving, at the moment, in my opinion, the grass is green & lush this side of the fence, compared to the sandy dunes that are left on the other.:ok: Don't be afraid to make the step!

[glad rag]

SAC(T) Sootie/rigger

What training did you do?

I don't find it surprising in the slightest that there are those who accumulated literally decades of engineering training and experience in the RAF who eventually left (or were forced from) the service with no actual formally recognised qualifications, such as your licence(s).

[Could be the last?]

MoD comes under fire after scrapping barracks upgrade - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8755669/MoD-comes-under-fire-after-scrapping-barracks-upgrade.html)



There is obviously more to this than meets the eye; however, perception is everything!!!!!

[Kengineer-130]

Glad rag, I did 12 months initial training to qualify as a propulsion tech, then did 7 weeks of Herc Engine & Prop Q course, a week propellor dynamic balancing course (including vibration & harmonics analysis), 7 week rigger conversion course, 7 weeks of Herc Airframe Q course, numerous other courses of various duration for line training, ongoing training etc.

What you cannot replace is working with people who have years of experience, I learnt off some very very good engineers, with years of on type experience. This is what will be missing in a few years time, just before I left the service, there was a growing problem that most people on shift had less than 2 years experience on type.

[martsu lives]

Guys Girls,
Its simple....Civvy streat awaits....
I appreciate that we have loyalty and are vey proud of serving our country but the powers that be and so called decision makers are not standing up for you.
You might not know it but the skills you have obtained in the service are simply massive. simple.
You may seem nervous and worried about the move from MOD to civvy street and it may seem scarey but if you get your resettlement correct you become a very valuable product. Despite world economy down turns etc etc, Aviation is on the up and civvy street needs people who can think on there feet / multi-task and deliver.
Simple.

[Tinribs]

I have been out there for many years now. One of the events that made me decide to take my 38 was the way the 74ish redundancies were managed

There were plenty of takers for the Flt Lt slots so only volunteers needed to go. Very few takers for the Sqn Ldr slots so lots of selected people

The result of this was that idle Flt Lts stayed, Flt Lts who had worked hard, done a bit extra and just got promotion were dumped. It seemed to me that the Sqn Ldrs selected should have been offered a rank drop to Flt Lt allowing more of the idle ones to be selected. Surely it was wrong to keep those who sat comfy and reject those who struggled upwards

[cazatou]

Tinribs

Those were the days of the CinC Training Command who stated "There is no such thing as a bad Student - there are only bad Instructors."

The corollary to that was that it was almost impossible to fail a Student Pilot; thus Units began to fill with "Pilots" who should not have been given control of a tricycle let alone an Aeroplane.

A lot of people saw the "writing on the wall" and decided to leave.

[Dengue_Dude]

Who on earth were those 2 percent of officers who thought that morale was high!!!! CAS and the rest of the SLT me thinks.

They subscribe to this:

In the beginning there was a Plan.
And then came Assumptions.
And the Assumptions were without form.
And the plan was without substance.
And darkness was on the face of the Workers.
And they spoke among themselves, saying
"It is a crock of ****, and it stinks".
And the Workers went unto their Supervisors and said
"It is a pale of dung, and none may obide the odor thereof".
And the Supervisors went unto their Managers, saying
"It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong, such that none can abide by it".
And the Managers went unto their Directors saying
"It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide its strength".
And the Directors spoke among themselves, saying one to another
"It contains that which aids plant growth, and it is very strong".
And the Directors went unto the Vice Presidents, saying unto them
"It promotes growth, and it is very powerful".
And the Vice Presidents went unto President saying unto him
"This new Plan will actively promote growth and vigor of this company, with powerful effects".
And the President looked upon the Plan and saw it was good.
And the Plan became Policy.
This is how **** happens.

[Biggus]

Just like Wyler (post 10) I have been in nearly 30 years, and have heard talk of "likely mass PVRs" many times in the past - none of which has ever materialised.

Yes, there will be a small spike in PVRs shortly, as many of those that applied for redundancy and didn't get it elect to leave anyway. This is not unexpected. If someone is seriously planning to leave and has started the process, job hunting, qualification gathering, considering a relocation, etc, their mind set is firmly on leaving. If they don't get voluntary redundancy they either try again in the next tranche or PVR, they have already made the mental leap and just wish to get on with the process and the rest of their lives.

But as for a mass exodus because of low morale, forget it. The economy is not particularly buoyant out there. The relevant statistic is that the RAF had 930 redundancy slots, and 620 applications - hardly oversubscribed, and not indicative of a rush for the door in terms of future PVRs.

[radar101]

Kengineer:

What you cannot replace is working with people who have years of experience, I learnt off some very very good engineers, with years of on type experience. This is what will be missing in a few years time, just before I left the service, there was a growing problem that most people on shift had less than 2 years experience on type.


It was always thus: I chaired some redundancy boards in the 1995/6 redundancies - various techie trade sgts IIRC. It was heartbreaking the quality of the good sgts who were tagged as low on the "inverse promotion board concept". We did our best to keep a range of the "low promotion but good, solid technician" cadre - but we still lost a lot of good guys.

[Pontius Navigator]

One of the events that made me decide to take my 38 was the way the 74ish redundancies were managed

There were plenty of takers for the Flt Lt slots so only volunteers needed to go. Very few takers for the Sqn Ldr slots so lots of selected people

The result of this was that idle Flt Lts stayed, Flt Lts who had worked hard, done a bit extra and just got promotion were dumped.

Tinribs, so true. I know one sqn ldr (mind you I was surprised he was promoted) who was ever so pleased he got his scraper yet within weeks he got his bowler hat. OTOH one of our gp capt was a very nice bloke so in the great scheme of things it was no surprise. He got his tour with sunshine airways and would have gone nowhere any way so he was probably both miffed he got picked and secretly pleased.

[A2QFI]

In the days when we had real leaders I was on a Station where the Station Commander did Xmas Day SDO and went round the Messes and inspected the defaulters and the whole range of other niff-naff too!

[kaikohe76]

I always was under the impression that, `the bloke at the top carried the can`.
Surely it's about time the most senior officers of all the three main Services, got off their collective backsides & considered the plight of all those in the Armed Forces to day. The Government certainly don't care & many of the population, with the notable exception of those honorable folk who live in Wotton Bassett, will only call for the military when there is a major crisis. The Servicemen & Women only have the CDS & others to act & speak up for them, gentlemen, do you actually exist or not?

[sisemen]

I PVRd in 93 'cos I could see the writing on the wall then; "peace dividend" et al. Additionally all I had to look forward to were Command HQ, MOD and PMC staff postings having done my last Station tour.

What worried me then was the amount of flt lt/fg off arse lickers moving up the ladder. Don't get me wrong - there were some very good ones as well but, looking at the promotion lists, I guess most of them eventually jumped ship as well. That left the uber arse lickers and I do see their names in lights at the top of the board. :(

And don't forget you blunty bashers - those at the top are mainly aircrew.

[Dengue_Dude]

And don't forget you blunty bashers - those at the top are mainly aircrew.

Phew . . . there had to be be SOME good news. Thanks for pointing that out. ;)

[Kengineer-130]

Sadly I was very naive for a long time, and believed that being very good at my job, having all the possible qualifications relating to my job current, volunteering for OOA dets etc would get me promoted. It was only seeing someone who was a terrible engineer, but very good at politics, secondary duties by the handful ( meaning virtually no time actually working!!) & being part of a station club populated by oic's getting promoted that really bought it home to me that being good at your job has no factor on promotion.

[airpolice]

A2QFI
In the days when we had real leaders I was on a Station where the Station Commander did Xmas Day SDO and went round the Messes and inspected the defaulters and the whole range of other niff-naff too!

That's the RAF that I was in. My son is in a different RAF, same uniform & same buildings, different focus.

[Si Clik]

I have heard from many a source that the Air Command and SVPA are handling the whole redundancy issue really poorly. They assigned an SO3 as the focal point who got 500 plus e-mails on the day of the signal. Standby for lots of complaints and more press leakage on this.
:sad:

[gijoe]

That is quite interesting as Green did it pretty well from my perspective bar a few parochial issues.

There were people who knew before R-Day as a few CO-types had demanded to know based on the need to plan their manning for next year...which is fair enough really.

G:ok: