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Bluebaron
10th Sep 2011, 12:50
‎9/11 death toll 2,977.

Since then at least 919,967 people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by U.S. and coalition attacks, based on lowest credible estimates. 873,344 were civilians.
:(

pigboat
10th Sep 2011, 13:09
Since then at least 919,967 people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by U.S. and coalition attacks, based on lowest credible estimates. 873,344 were civilians.


Now ya got that outta the way, are you going to tell us how many Iraqis and Afghanis have been killed by their fellow citizens in the same time period?

parabellum
10th Sep 2011, 13:24
Apart from the fact that Saddam Hussein, the Taliban and AlQuaida would have probably killed a similar number in the same period, had their been no allied intervention, isn't this a rather insensitive time to raise your hypothesis?

johngreen
10th Sep 2011, 13:36
Now ya got that outta the way, are you going to tell us how many Iraqis and Afghanis have been killed by their fellow citizens in the same time period?


And maybe we should also have some consideration of how many Americans have been killed by their fellow citizens in the same time period...

rh200
10th Sep 2011, 13:45
Since then at least 919,967 people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by U.S. and coalition attacks, based on lowest credible estimates. 873,344 were civilians.



:rolleyes: Care to post a reference for that number and statement.:bored:

tony draper
10th Sep 2011, 14:33
Interestingly a quick google indicates about half a billion human beings have died of natural causes during the same period.
:uhoh:

corsair
10th Sep 2011, 14:41
Interestingly a quick google indicates about half a billion human beings have died of natural causes during the same period.
Ah, but that's what the Americans want you to think!:suspect:

hellsbrink
10th Sep 2011, 14:44
‎9/11 death toll 2,977.

Since then at least 919,967 people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by U.S. and coalition attacks, based on lowest credible estimates. 873,344 were civilians.


:=:=:=

You cannot add the deaths from Iraq and Afghanistan to that of 9/11, and your "lowest credible estimates" are NOTHING remotely credible.

Go back to school and learn some real facts instead of looking on anti-american websites.

cavortingcheetah
10th Sep 2011, 14:44
Is there an implicit condemnation in the opening stanza? In which case perhaps it only remains to point out that in the worst of scenarios a little attritive revenge is extremely good for the soul. The figures are becoming gratifyingly proportional.

Mister.E
10th Sep 2011, 14:48
Without credible evidence to back up the 1,000,000 killed I would like to ask if they have ever been to Iraq or Afghanistan as they seem to think it is so bad since the Civilised world invaded. I have been there. I have seen freinds killed trying to protect the decent people that live there! I agree that some of the hate may have been caused by moving troops in but they have been killing each other for years! Would you like your wife to walk around looking like a dustbin bag or if you were the wife would you like to get a good beating because the husband got p**ed off because it's hot today?
There are many descent people that are unfortunatly caught up in the events that have gone on but we will never change that.

hellsbrink
10th Sep 2011, 14:49
Mike

The point is America's “revenge” (grab for oil) has cost 1 million more lives, which quite eloquently shows just what it thinks about the stability of the rest of the world (weapons to sell), which then in turn explains why it is so hated by the majority of the world (it doesn't matter, it justifies heavy security and population surveillance back home).

Russia and China, and even France, sell more arms in most regions than the YooEssofA does, and where is your OFFICIAL reference for the reason for going into Afghanistan (or even Iraq) has been to "grab the oil".


And just because YOU do not like America, doesn't mean that the "majority of the world" does, and I know you cannot provide a single reference to back up your statement to prove that the "majority" of people in the world "hate America".


You can do the same as bluebaron, go back to school and learn some facts instead of reading anti-american websites.

That way there won't be any complaints about baseless anti-american insults, will there.

Bluebaron
10th Sep 2011, 16:19
I'm not promoting propaganda. My 'anti American' websites are wiki and United nations.

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War)

United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Assistance_Mission_in_Afghanistan)

United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (http://unama.unmissions.org/default.aspx?/)

My intention was to highlight the huge loss of life since the 9/11 attacks.
Albeit largely as a result of US action. (although some may argue, with due cause, who through the 1st stone etc.)

Interesting to consider the other side.

Remember George Washingtion was considered a terrorist by the British. and the french 'resistance' in WW" were 'insurgents' from the german prospective.

hellsbrink
10th Sep 2011, 16:48
I'm not promoting propaganda. My 'anti American' websites are wiki and United nations.

Really? Then explain your figures.

Total deaths Iraq, using LOWEST RELIABLE FIGURES:- 109,000

Total deaths Afghanistan 2007-2010:- 9759.

So where do your figures come from? Oh yes, that reliable, non-propaganda site unknownnews.com where figures are based on ESTIMATES from things like extrapolation from SEVEN MONTHS of data in 2004, where they makeup figures if they do not have the data, etc. And don't try and say you did not use that site because your "total" is EXACTLY the same figure as they quote. Since their methodology, and purposes and aims, are highly questionable I would suggest you go back and start again.

And this time try telling the truth, especially as YOU claimed that all these deaths were caused by attacks by US and coalition troops.


Edit: I'll go further regarding your lies. Your words "based on lowest credible estimates." are also EXACTLY the same as the words on unknownnews. Are you still going to claim you used Wiki and the UNAMA site for your "facts"?

stuckgear
10th Sep 2011, 17:04
I'm not promoting propaganda. My 'anti American' websites are wiki and United nations.

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War)



as hellsbrink points out..

Total deaths Iraq, using LOWEST RELIABLE FIGURES:- 109,000

Total deaths Afghanistan 2007-2010:- 9759.


Any consideration as to the three quarters of a million people in iraq that were killed by the Saddam reigime?. Halabja has finally been recoginsed by the Iraq government as an act of Genocide. Or is that ok and cool, because those 'mericans wern't involved.

In case you need some memory check items..

Halabja..

http://files.peyamatenahi.webnode.com/200000010-4abb24bb4f/Halabcha.gif
http://pal2pal.com/BLOGEE/images/uploads/gassed2.jpg
http://pal2pal.com/BLOGEE/images/uploads/gassed3.jpg
http://pal2pal.com/BLOGEE/images/uploads/gassed5.jpg
http://static.aknews.com/images/cms-image-000000348.jpg

Here's a suggestion.. Shove your anti-american, lefty bulls:mad:t rhetoric where the sun don't shine.

BOAC
10th Sep 2011, 17:16
Total deaths Iraq, using LOWEST RELIABLE FIGURES:- 109,000

Total deaths Afghanistan 2007-2010:- 9759. - lies, damn lies and ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Do you have RELEVANT figures perchance ie post 9/11 or are you saying 9/11 happened in 2007? What period does the 'Total deaths Iraq' cover?

Let's do this properly?

hellsbrink
10th Sep 2011, 17:39
Total deaths Iraq covers the entire period of the conflict. The figures quoted are the ones leaked by Wikileaks.

Finding data on Afghanistan pre-2007 is not easy, but am collating it. The only collated figures for Afghanistan which are supplied by the UN (one of bluebaron's alleged sources) start in 2007.


The bottom line is that bluebaron claimed his figures were sourced from the "lowest credible" stats from Wiki and UNAFA. He not only lied about that but used the ones from a totally biased site which uses the discredited Lancet report into civilian deaths in Iraq and claims "lowest credible figures". Even the Guardian has pooh-pooh's these figures.

We'll also ignore his lies about how all these claimed deaths were as a result of US and Coalition attacks.

So, sorry, if you want to go off on his train you are welcome, but don't be surprised if you get flamed too.


Edit:- To add to the figures, a leaked report shows the total amount of deaths in Afghanistan between 2004 and 2009 (civilian and military) to be a total of 24,498, 4000 of which being civilians.

So is bluebaron going to "revise" his figures or will he just disappear.......

El Grifo
10th Sep 2011, 17:51
The moral of the story which spouted forth from the gob of the big fella himself is :-

"You are either with them or against them"

The are a very sensitive bunch and tolerate no dissention, much like children really.

No doubt I will be stamped as "Anti-American" for simply pointing that out :ok:

vulcanised
10th Sep 2011, 18:10
Looks set to exceed that figure considerably.

According to a recent report there are many thousands suffering or even incubating fatal illnesses from inhaling or absorbing miniscule debris of a highly toxic nature.

El Grifo
10th Sep 2011, 18:11
Asbestos was/is a big issue !

hellsbrink
10th Sep 2011, 18:12
Got a link to that, Vulc?


Anyway, that still doesn't account for bluebaron's claims/lies of 900,000+ killed due to US and coalition attacks.

El Grifo
10th Sep 2011, 18:14
Here is one to back up what I have written :-

The World Trade Center - Ongoing Health Issues | Asbestos.com (http://www.asbestos.com/world-trade-center/health-issues.php)

hellsbrink
10th Sep 2011, 18:19
Ah. Sorry, I thought we were still talking about casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Yes, the health issues Noo Yorkers are suffering from post 9/11 are known and there will be thousands of people dying because of these issues (due to breathing in such a combination of toxins in the dust). It'll be many years before the true numbers are known, and that's before we think of those who will survive but will suffer some sort of issue for the rest of their lives.