£340 for a printer cartridge!!!!!

[[email protected]]

Just been crossed over to Dii and had several shiny, new and very large printers installed - all lasers, some mono and some colour. Being a diligent sort, our opsie decided to order some spare cartridges just in case one ran out during a weekend. Each cartridge for these shiny new Dii printers is £340 quid - a colour printer takes 3 of them so a cool £1020 for a full replen - someone saw us coming:ugh::ugh:

[Karma022202]

someone saw us coming

Probably not. This is common practice because If you own a laser printer, you already know the most expensive part of ownership is purchasing laser toner cartridges. A normal laser printer has a life expectancy of five years. However, many laser printers will last longer than five years.
Many major printer manufacturers use a marketing model similar to TiVo and Gillette razors. The basic idea is this¡* they sell you the printer at or near cost. Once you've purchased their printer, you will buy their printer supplies. Hence, the huge mark up on the price of the toner cartridges. In many cases, the cost of a brand name cartridge is more than twice what it should be.

[Jumping_Jack]

When you think that an OEM single colour 'tank' for a bubblejet is around £10 I don't find the price particularly surprising.....

[pasptoo]

And you thought CivSAR was way more expensive than the MilSAR equivalent! Just another "hidden" military cost then? :E

Sorry, Crab, couldn't resist, but that is an outrageous cost to the public purse. I seriously hope there is a course to complain or source cheaper products. (or cancel the contract).

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Out of interest, what model are they and what would it cost to buy them yourself?

[Fareastdriver]

OEM HP cartridges. About £75 for black, £130 for each colour.

[The Old Fat One]

I'm feeling stroppy and nowadays IT and stuff is my turf so....


Out of interest, what model are they and what would it cost to buy them yourself?


Here is someone thinking like me. Lets compare like with like and see if you have a gripe or are just spewing bile.


OEM HP cartridges. About £75 for black, £130 for each colour.


Here is someone with a comprehension problem who can't use Google. In easy language...

What is the MODEL NUMBER of the PRINTING DEVICE and how much are the toner cartridges when you put that model number into Google shopping.

If the the result is that you can get them for 66% of the price or less through normal retail channels then write to your MP pointing out the waste of tax payers money.

If you find the price is roughly adjacent then this thread is just................. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[jamesdevice]

when I did a short temping spell working for EDS supporting the Dept of Work & Pensions IT system, we used to get callout requests to visit dole offices to replace paper in printers! At £130 a callout it was a nice earner for EDS.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Simple ... don't ever, ever, use the manufacturers' cartridges. I've been using all sorts of printers for over 25 years and have never purchased an "own make" cartridge. There are plenty of reputable firms selling their own brands at half price or less what the makers want and I've never experienced any problems. Cue 600 people who are now going to tear me apart with dreadful tales of printers exploding, etc!

[jamesdevice]

"Cue 600 people who are now going to tear me apart with dreadful tales of printers exploding,"br />

Yes - and no.... I've seen a lot of cheap-end printers fail prematurely because of low quality budget cartridges, but at the same time I've seen others go on for years. With lasers you're probably OK with generics, or even with refills (until the drum wears out), but ink-jets are very hit and miss. The secret is to find a brand that works - and stick with it. Don't chop and change

[charliegolf]

Nobody who needs photocopying at a reasonable volume in their workplace should be using printers! They should be colour printing to the copier. <0.5p per A4 mono, 4p full colour. And really quick too.

CG

[whowhenwhy]

We've got one of these nice shiny printers in the office. Not seen a printer catridge last more than about 6-8 months, let alone 5 years. But then I suppose when you've got 30 people all printing off the same printer and they're having to print off loads of course materials etc etc. Really not well thought out policy!:confused:

[jamesdevice]

"having to print off loads of course materials"

Would be cheaper to save the documents as PDF or e-books and make them all read them on a PC or Kindle

[Pontius Navigator]

Crab, I mentioned this 2 years ago. IIRC it was £250 but of course with the VAT and RPI.

At the time it also cost £120 for a 20 mm hole on a 10cm light block wall.

And we were quoted more that £10k to move a cabinet from where it should not have been installed to where it should. The cabinet was also 50% bigger than needed and exactly the right size to replace an exisiting cabinet that they utilised that was 50% too small.

And we wonder why 2*CVS=Dii/f

And have you found out how much an account costs? Again IIRC it was £18 per account per month.

[The Old Fat One]

Cue 600 people who are now going to tear me apart with dreadful tales of printers exploding, etc!


Oh Joy

Customer (two weeks ago)

My printer is gubbed

My Techie

Your blue cartridge is fake and has leaked toner onto the sealer. It is beyond repair.

Customer

It's only 3 months old.

My Techie

Tough sh1t (techies are always blunt) your warranty has been invalidated; do you want me to order you a replacement? We have them on offer at £1500 inc VAT at the moment.

PS

Watch the exaggeration...it damages credibility. Nobody has been buying dodgy cartridges for 25 years as the the PC printer only started to become a household device in the UK in the early nineties and most of the early models were Daisy Wheel (impact) printers. Ink jets appeared on masse circa 92-93 and the industry finance model switched from capital cost to consumable item driven in the mid to late nineties. The emergence of cheap alternative consumables resulted from this switch and came to prominence around the turn of the century (about 10-11 years ago). And if you think it is me turning this thread into a snooze fest, you're wrong. It has been one from the outset.

QED

[Pontius Navigator]

Nobody who needs photocopying at a reasonable volume in their workplace should be using printers! They should be colour printing to the copier. <0.5p per A4 mono, 4p full colour. And really quick too.

CG

We were one of the first units to get Dii/f and as we didn't run to a colour copier the printer was the only way. But . . .

I selected the first full colour image to print. Not a lot happened for a fair old time then the image was sent to Bicester where the server was and eventually it was sent back where most of it printed. That took about 2-3 minutes. The next page . . .

As I had better things to do I rang the help desk, the help desk that makes JPAC look good, and eventually, after a couple of weeks we got a work-around. They made my printer a local printer so it could be addressed directly from the desktop (actually a floor top).

Then they gave me feed back from the makers. The printer was not designed as a network printer and the manufacturer would have to write new drivers for it to work properly.

I retired and they closed the unit before they fixed the printer.

[Karma022202]

They should be colour printing to the copier. <0.5p per A4 mono, 4p full colour. And really quick too.

Oh dear, you do need to get a life. And really quick too!!!!!

[500N]

If you think the Toner cartridges are expensive, wait until you see the cost of the Drum unit - if it has one. Ouch is the normal response from people who phone up.

[Karma022202]

wait until you see the cost of the Drum unit

Is that the price of a corona wire or a separate charged roller.:sad:

[Grabbers]

What photocopiers do the SAS use? Or do you all have laser scanners behind your eyeballs?

[Karma022202]

What photocopiers do the SAS use?

The one in the Sqn Adjutants office usually.

[Grabbers]

Sure it's not a Canon?

[Karma022202]

Samsung I think, but I can find out if you are really interested.

[Grabbers]

I knew I should have put cannon after the brand name. :confused:

[[email protected]]

The printers are Xerox and the maket price is little different to the catalogue price. The galling thing is that Dii has cost the MoD a fortune but the support costs aren't included in the outrageous contract price - the users have to pay for things like the printer cartridges.

I believe each account costs £35 per year and we are charged by the byte for storage. Some of the computers they installed are of a lesser spec (and not new either) than the 'old' ones they replaced. A refurbished computer from Dii will set you back £450 which is enough to buy a brand new very good spec model from Dell or PC World.

We have been massively ripped off - again - where is the SFO when you need it? All this waste of money is worse when set against the backdrop of redundancies!

[tucumseh]

Crab

We have been massively ripped off - again - where is the SFO when you need it? All this waste of money is worse when set against the backdrop of redundancies!


Agreed. The person who must sign to approve the payment of £350 must state, in writing, the buy is "fair and reasonable". If you tell him the same cartridges can be got for a lower price, then he is in a spot, because he is committing fraud if he knowingly makes a false declaration. If he does refuse to sign, then someone above him will jump; and you may find something is done. It may "only" be a cartridge, but this obligation (promulgated by PUS and repeated in every letter of delegation) is applicable to all MoD expenditure. That it is ignored is the main reason MoD wastes billions every year. The process is called Requirement Scrutiny.

Oh, by the way, meeting this legal obligation is a disciplinary offence, and has been since 1992. Which better explains why we waste billions!

[BEagle]

Dii - isn't that another EDS triumph of IT?

Does a certain Scottish Group Captain :yuk: still work for EDS?

[Wycombe]

Who-ever he works for it's no longer EDS as that Corporation ceased to exist just over 3 years ago.

[ShyTorque]

The secret is to find a brand that works - and stick with it. Don't chop and change

How do you manage the first without doing the latter? :p

[NutLoose]

Its like the copier scanner printer i have on the desk from Epson (CX6400) It chirped up a message along the lines of "the components in your printer have now reached their life expectancy and I will now cease to function, please scrap me and buy a replacement printer", thankfully a quick search on Google found the relevant keystroke combinations to reset that little puppy and get it working again, and here we are over a year on and still working happily..

[Pontius Navigator]

If you think the Toner cartridges are expensive, wait until you see the cost of the Drum unit - if it has one. Ouch is the normal response from people who phone up.

The other thing Dii didn't like doing was actually resolving problems. Once I found their fault logging system you would see things like:

User said this: 111210.32
Refer to software team:111210.42
Categorised level 4:111210.52

Then you might change to see:

Awaiting User Input:120911.10

But NO call to the user for an input

Then:

Auto Categorised level 5:140911.10
Auto Categorised level 6:150911.10

You get the idea?

You then dig in to find the Service Level Agreement, find they failed to meet it, find a phone number, file a complaint etc etc.

[charliegolf]

Oh dear, you do need to get a life. And really quick too!!!!!

You're the one spouting **** about printers mate. Corona wire my arse.:D

CG

[Top Bunk Tester]

Crab

Prices (RRP) direct from the Xerox site for the Xerox Phaser 7500, the standard DiiF high capacity colour printer. So although printer consumables per se are a rip off, it still works out cheaper than inkjet and also shows that you're not getting ripped off by the service provider (Atlas HP in this case)

106R01436 High Capacity Cyan Toner Cartridge (17800 pages) £350.12 £420.14
106R01437 High Capacity Magenta Toner Cartridge (17800 pages) £350.12 £420.14
106R01438 High Capacity Yellow Toner Cartridge (17800 pages) £350.12 £420.14
106R01439 High Capacity Black Toner Cartridge (19800 pages) £237.50 £285.00

[500N]

"The secret is to find a brand that works - and stick with it. Don't chop and change"

"How do you manage the first without doing the latter? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif"

Suggest looking on technology forums to see what people list as alternatives that work. Someone would have done it and listed it somewhere.

Like for Lights of any sort, you go to Candlepower forums to find out what is what.

.

[stickmonkeytamer]

They must be good quality- I went to our "communal" DII colour printer this morning to pick up some work and saw that our pet Sqn Ldr was printing out his family photos on it... They did look very good quality prints- not sure if he was using special paper ;)

SMT

[Dawdler]

Slightly off topic, but definitely on target, when I worked for a company that supplied (amongst others) the MOD. It was standard practice to charge the MOD four times the amount that we charged anyone else for low value items. The reason for this was the beuracratic red tape we had to fight our way through in order to get paid. Sadly it wasn't as simple as just issuing an invoice as in the case of any other customer. You had to apply for permission to issue the invoice, which took an age to get, then the invoice had to be covered with a signed delivery note. The invoice was always sent to a place other than the recieving depot, this office then had to contact that depot to challenge the validity of the supplied signature. When all that was done, your invoice was then placed in the queue for payment, once on the list it regularly took three months for any money to change hands.

So when I hear about MOD being overcharged for an item, I am not surprised.

[Pontius Navigator]

Dawdler, that would be the Defence Billing Agency in Liverpool.

I received an electricity bill every month. Every month I would receive a threatening letter, then one in red, then one threatening baiiffs.

We did ask if the bailiffs were armed :)

We got within a couple of days of being disconnected several times.

[Roadster280]

Not that I really give a monkey's, but the (regular) SAS is an Army regiment. Army regiments have a single adjt. One for the whole regt. After all, there can be only one bloke in charge of discipline.

However, AIUI, the RAF has an adjt per squadron, as each sqn is a separate unit, I expect. So to quote ""Sqn adjt's office" tends to suggest nothing at all to do with the SAS.

As for the printers, why is colour required at all? What's wrong with B&W?

[500N]

Dawdler
A mate who runs a weapons and accessories supply company in the UK looked at a tender for optical gear and even though it was a fair quantity, decided not to put in a bid for it due to the time taken to write it but more so the hassle of supplying an eval unit for months on end and being paid way way down the track IF they won it.

The MoD came back to them asking them why no submission as they wanted them to submit. He said they were not pleased with why they wouldn't be bothering.
.

[jamesdevice]

what I don't understand is why do you need a phaser printer? Those things are specifically for high-grade reproduction of limited runs of glossies - e.g. promotion catalogues and such like.
I can't believe there is a large enough demand within the military for documents of that type to justify the use. There are far cheaper solutions than phasers

[Roadster280]

Yes, the photon torpedoes are much more effective.

Hat, coat, etc.

[Karma022202]

what I don't understand is why do you need a phaser printer?

The Xerox phaser printer unlike laser or ink-jet machines, uses blocks of solid ink to print with. The ink is softened on a heated drum before being transferred to the paper and needs no fuser nor multiple layers of print, as a colour laser does. This is a fast business printer suited to environments where there’s a high proportion of colour content. It’s good for colour proofing work, but also for general-purpose printing, where you would typically consider a colour laser, but value ease of maintenance. If the price is daunting, the Phaser 8500N, slower and without duplex, can be had for around £510.

[MOA]

The Xerox phaser printer unlike l@ser or ink-jet machines, uses blocks of solid ink to print with. The ink is softened on a heated drum before being transferred to the paper and needs no fuser nor multiple layers of print, as a colour l@ser does. This is a fast business printer suited to environments where there’s a high proportion of colour content. It’s good for colour proofing work, but also for general-purpose printing, where you would typically consider a colour l@ser, but value ease of maintenance. If the price is daunting, the Phaser 8500N, slower and without duplex, can be had for around £510.

And now Trusted Reviews....

[Grabbers]

'Selection' is much more different than the TV would have you believe, eh Karma?

"Right lads, up and down Pen Y Fan please. In 5 minutes. And when you get to the top you'll each find a broken industrial sized piece of office machinery. I want you to put your blindfolds on, strip your machine down, find and fix the fault, reassemble it and memorise the instruction manual and list price. Understood? Good, 3, 2, 1 go..."

[heights good]

Rip off

Xerox Standard-Capacity Toner cartridge - Cyan - 7500 pg (http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=xerox+7500+cartridges&num=30&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12981446608215629391&sa=X&ei=oaNqTuvhIs-aOtnO4N0F&ved=0CGcQ8wIwAA#ps-sellers)

Shocking waste of money by the MoD!

HG

[500N]

I see Karma got his Karma and got banned :O

Do the RAF really do colour proofing work ???

"fast business printer suited to environments where there’s a high proportion of colour content." Sounds like Death by Powerpoint slides to me.

Laser technology is the way to go IMHO.

[jamesdevice]

total overkill
I used to use them for printing limited-run catalogues of imported garden furniture. Fine for a high-impact short-run marketing / commercial presentation publications. Anything else, total waste of money

[JFZ90]

Rip off

Xerox Standard-Capacity Toner cartridge - Cyan - 7500 pg

Shocking waste of money by the MoD!

HG

The RRP prices in the post above were for high capacity 18000 pg cartridges, not 7500pg. Shocking lack of attention to detail! They have more than twice the capacity - it looks from the list like the RRP of the smaller cart is usually nearer £200.

This works out at 2p / page at £350/ea - noting you have 4 carts.

Not sure then this is a story after all. High capacity cartridges are usually better VFM overall, as you'd expect.

PS liked the "pet Sqn Ldr printing family photos" - LOL. We've all seen the type - usually muttering about waste while they're at it!

[jamesdevice]

"This works out at 2p / page at £350/ea - noting you have 4 carts. "

When we did a real-world calculation based on actual performance, the costs were around £0.35 / page

[JFZ90]

"This works out at 2p / page at £350/ea - noting you have 4 carts. "

When we did a real-world calculation based on actual performance, the costs were around £0.35 / page

Probably as your users were printing out the full purple powerpoint backgrounds for every slide.........:)

[jamesdevice]

no, these were A4 catalogue pages with 60% white space.
I don't print Powerpoint presentations. I leave them where they belong - on the screen. If you have to print a Powerpoint session, then you have failed in your task of transferring information. Besides which, if you hand an audience a set of of Powerpoint printouts, they spend the whole time reading the printout - and NOT listening to the presenter. By all means make the presentation available online for later download, but printing them? Total incompetence: its the sign of a failed trainer or presenter

[Bill Macgillivray]

Oh dear, I thought that this was a pilot site! Got that wrong, obviously! Maybe "e-goat" would be a more appropriate site than this one, and I am ex-service and I do agree with the thread - just the wrong place! Return to pre-pilot life and get out of ground fire!!:rolleyes:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

Oh dear, I thought that this was a pilot site! Got that wrong, obviously! Maybe "e-goat" would be a more appropriate site than this one, and I am ex-service and I do agree with the thread - just the wrong place! Return to pre-pilot life and get out of ground fire!!:rolleyes:


There is the clue :ok: