B737 MAX - Come back in Six Years

[twistedenginestarter]

I had a bloke working for me who had been a project manager at the Mini plant of BMW. He told me if they wanted to change a panel on a production vehicle, from the time they started designing it on the CAD machines to the time it went into production, was... one week.

Boeing are going to take an existing model, on an existing production line and swap in an engine that exists now more-or-less, and they are going to take not one week but THREE HUNDRED!

There must be a better way of building aeroplanes.

[Mercenary Pilot]

I think there is a large hurdle to changing the engines on the 737 due to ground clearance, and I presume they are going to design a completely new wing for it too.

I always wondered about the efficiency of the NG's wing due to the need to stick humongous winglets to the end of it. :confused:

[westhawk]

According to a short article I just read on this re-engining program Boeing chooses to call the "max", it's simply an updated CFM-56 with a slightly larger diameter fan. They claim it will be 4% more fuel efficient than the re-engined A-320. Maybe a big deal if you're an airline stock analyst.

Among the issues to be resolved is how big they can make the fan without it requiring "major" re-design of the aircraft related to engine pod ground clearance issues. I surmise that they could mean landing gear, engine/wing interface and gear well changes when they refer to re-design.

The article also mentioned the long lead time involved but did not go into detail about the logic driving the proposed schedule. As far behind schedule as Boeing is on their current offerings, it' not surprising though.

[Denti]

Dunno if it plays any part in it, but currently the 737 NG has a backlog that will reach into 2017, but only if they manage to increase the production rate to over 40 aircraft a month.

Just hope they change the avionics too and finally offer a real EICAS in there as well if not close to 787 avionics.

[mnttech]

But BMW does not have to qual that change to the FAA.
They do not have to have a structures person do the math on the loads, do a fault mode analysis (FMA) , safety analysis, maintenance manual update, pull tests, and gosh knows what else.

[cwatters]

If I remember correctly BMW started designing the "new mini" in 1998 and first production models were released in 2001. Next major change took until around 2006/7 I think. Perhaps the timescales aren't that different.

[Baron 58P]

I read that the engine nacelles are 3 inches larger than the current ones and due to this they have to redesign the nose and main gear. There is a suggestion that the lengthened nose gear - which will not fit into the fuselage - and the main gear struts should compress hydralically as they are retracted and expanding hydraulically as they are lowered. This will give the necessary clearance for landing. I can imagine something going wrong and all three wheels stuck in their wells! :uhoh:

[ImbracableCrunk]

According to a few websites, Boeing isn't updating the cockpit. @#$%^&!!!!

Yes, I blame you SWA.

[oceancrosser]

Nope the stalactite cave will remain for decades to come, complete with the grinding wheel etc. Once a FLUF...

Does the MAX designation mean that this is it? They've maxed out on the size of the fan and hopfully they have maxed out on any further incarnations of the 737.

[FlightPathOBN]

I always wondered about the efficiency of the NG's wing due to the need to stick humongous winglets to the end of it.

it beats the hell out of making the wingspan that much wider....not to step on very knowledgeable aerodynamic people on this board, but the drag on the tip is really quite a bit less thinning it down at the tip, and turning it upwards gives the same effective length and thin tip, without widening the wingspan...

Airbus winglets appear virtually worthless, and the numbers support this...

For the 737 new engine, the wingbox will have to be re-designed, which is a major endeavor...anyone can build a tube or a wing, they make their money on the wingbox connection....

Yes, I blame you SWA.

hahaha..'fly it like a 200'....are you still using a paperclip to engage vnav? :mad:

[grounded27]

The new wing "787" being the latest seems to blend upward toward the tip. "winglets" were a bandage on what is now aerodynamically the standard. Greater tension is now placed at the wingbox.

[Touch'n'oops]

Look at how the "tweaks" on the 747. Turned into a 2 year delay from a simple re-engine and stretch!? :ugh:

[jafflyer]

One suggestion please,

Get rid of those master caution reset buttons.

They look AND handle like a worn out rubic's cube.

[oceancrosser]

One suggestion please,

Get rid of those master caution reset buttons.

They look AND handle like a worn out rubic's cube.

The 737 cockpit, any generation, is built on early '60s (late '50s even) technology with a lot of archaic items. Boeing's desperate attempt to counter Airbus MFF resulted in "dumbing down" of checklists and procedures in order to keep the 737 in a similar loop as later generation airplanes. :ugh:

And something is not right, sure there are a lot of 738s out there, but the accidents are also (too) many.

[porch monkey]

Not really. Loss rates are comparable, if you compare like with like.