Moving up to the hold point

[spelling_nazi]

A polite request to Sydney domestic drivers to please when holding short of 16R to please all the way up to the stop line so as to not block or infringe txy B.

All airlines are guilty but I have to say virgin 737 / Jetstar a320 drivers are usually the ones stopping far enough back from the line such that your tail is hanging out over taxiway B. I guess because the most critical taxiway intersections are the ones (f, b3,b4 etc) those operators mainly use.At night it is quite unnerving trying to guesstimate if your infringing bravo or not when I'm taxing north on bravo.

Don't be shy! Move up to the line please!

Now, back to Qantas bashing...

[clakajak]

Sure, but only if the QF outfit stop blinding us all with all lights ablazin' at night!

Fair's fair !!;)

[spelling_nazi]

Not guilty here matey! I'm the king of turning off taxi/turnoff lights near other aircraft but I know what your talking about!

[bloated goat]

Yes I have seen it happen also. The view from the cockpit of where the holding point line is in line with the tip of the aircraft nose can be very illusory. I regularly have my f/o think I have crossed the line and speak up as I park my plane right up to the holding point for that very reason to allow room behind. My view form how I sit in the 737 is that I bring the holding point line up to but not past the L2 cockpit window trigger handle. This position looks as if the aircraft nose cone is heaps over the line but infact isn't.

[LongTimeInCX]

Scamp Damp - after you have been attacked from the side by ground support vehicles who later claim not to have seen you, it is possible that you may also consider leaving wing inspection lights on whilst manouevering in busy aircraft and vehicle populated ramp and taxiway areas.

[Scamp Damp]

Wing inspection lights on blinding everyone would be a start!

What are you inspecting?

I suppose, worlds best practice?

[ejectx3]

.....the design is fine.

You can easily fit a 737 in there within the 'box', and have the nose behind the line and tail clear of twy bravo limits. There's a ton of room.

If you can't see the line under the randome, then you're well and truly enclosed in the box and the 767 driver is being too much of a skygod. :hmm:

[Captain Peacock]

If your arse is hanging over the line, I'll ask nicely if you can move forward. I'm not being a Sky God or Prima Donna :rolleyes:, just don't want to do a "United" like in MEL. :ouch:

Those taxiways can hold an A320 or 737 easily - if the nose is at the hold line.

Holding short 16R at B2 is the interesting one though, no hold line at Taxiway B so I won't taxi behind you there!

[ejectx3]

It's ok capt Peacock, I use the term 'skygod' very tongue in cheek as I am a member of the same club :}

All I meant was if the 737 is up to the line, the 767 is being too conservative if he's not happy with the taill clearance as a 737 well and truly fits in the box.

[Chocks Away]

I am aware of an issue concerning the magnetic fields below deck, from the Airport Train tunnel around F/B3... hence the yellow pegs and aircraft holding back. These were affecting the Q400's mostly.
What is the update on this?

[Tankengine]

Chocks away - WTF?:confused:

With GPS etc who GAF about the compass?:ugh:

[ejectx3]

Yeah that was out of left field......you could hear the silence all over pprune land....anyway...where were we?

PS I was wondering about all the little flags around the place...it's like an episode from CSI out there! :O

[Howard Hughes]

With GPS etc who GAF about the compass?The guy sitting at the hold point with EHSI reading about 70 degrees off!:eek:

[Tidbinbilla]

Yes indeed, Tankengine. Not too many companies allow you to take off with a HSI HDG Mismatch message (as HH alluded to, with huge gross HSI heading errors between the left and right hand sides).

This has been a well known problem for Sydney turboprop pilots for at least 6 years.

[Capt Fathom]

From Flight Global.

Buried metal linked to London City aircraft compass deviations

By David Learmount

Metal structures beneath the holding area for runway 28 at London City Airport can cause aircraft compass deviations of up to 97deg left and right, according to the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB).

The Branch took the magnetic anomaly readings during its investigation of a 31 October 2006 incident in which a Raytheon Hawker 800XP, which was flying the standard departure from London City,
called for air traffic control assistance to return there because its heading reference systems (HRS) remained unreliable for some time after take-off.

The aircraft returned to land safely, but the AAIB investigation found there had been other related events at London City affecting a Cessna C560 Citation XL, Fokker 50s, and two other Hawker 800s.

The local magnetic field anomaly in the runway 28 holding area at London City is caused partly by buried metal structures that are the remnants of the airport site's history as a dockside loading area for ships.
These include buried railway lines and the massive below-ground sections of what used to be bollards that ships tied up to.

But the main disturbance to the earth's magnetic field at that point, says the AAIB, was caused by the tubular metal sleeves surrounding the vertical concrete piles that support the holding loop.
Research company Qinetiq found that these had been sections of oil pipeline that had been rendered highly magnetic by induction resulting from years of uni-directional mineral oil flow.

The AAIB recommends that the UK Civil Aviation Authority require London City Airport to "mitigate the effects of the magnetic anomaly in the loop hold".

The CAA says it has accepted the board's recommendations, and London City chief executive Richard Gooding says work to comply has already begun.
This consists of cutting away the metal sleeves from the concrete piles and is expected to be completed in a few weeks.

[ejectx3]

Stop destroying this awesome thread with magnetic stuff :O

[Tankengine]

My machine isn't a problem so I have not seen it. Are the aircraft affected OK on the runway? :confused:
I would think lined up on the runway is the only place the HSI needs to be accurate, the thread is about moving up to the holding point!:rolleyes:.

[ejectx3]

It's the 737's / A320's / A321's that can fit easily but often don't. Turboprops never an issue, and anything larger can't fit anyway...

[RATpin]

Sounds like an argument to move all turboprop operations to Bankstown and put in place a high speed rail network to international/domestic.
No offense to prop drivers intended,just wishing to stimulate further discussion in this area.
I realize this is unlikely given political considerations

[Capt Fathom]

Sounds like an argument to move all turboprop operations to Bankstown

Airports are for everyone. It's just the Australian authorities (and you) that can't seem to come to terms with that!

I was coming home from JFK some time ago. I saw a Chieftain and a MU2 depart amongst the queue of sundry airliners!

You pay the fees, you get a go. Simple as that!

[RATpin]

I was being polite and no it is not as simple as that.
It's about movements per hour as we are constantly reminded and it is about time this was addressed.We are talking about the most important aerodrome in Australia in terms of pax numbers.
An international airport allowing 7 seaters to take up slots,you have got to be kidding.

[spelling_nazi]

Anyway thanks all for derailing my original request... so ....can we all please stop being so scared of the hold line and move up to it please? It won't bite. :ok:

[missy]

A polite request to Sydney domestic drivers to please when holding short of 16R to please all the way up to the stop line so as to not block or infringe txy B.

All airlines are guilty but I have to say virgin 737 / Jetstar a320 drivers are usually the ones stopping far enough back from the line such that your tail is hanging out over taxiway B. I guess because the most critical taxiway intersections are the ones (f, b3,b4 etc) those operators mainly use.At night it is quite unnerving trying to guesstimate if your infringing bravo or not when I'm taxing north on bravo.

Don't be shy! Move up to the line please!

My experience is that a B737-700's, E170/190's fits okay, B737-800's, A320/321's not so well. B4 seems worst, perhaps because of the adjacent B5 exit.

B767's asking 121.7 to ask the aircraft at TWY B4, B3 and F to move up to the holding point is very time consuming as 121.7 has to identify the aircraft then ask TWR (120.5) to ask the aircraft to move up and sometimes this is coincident with an aircraft using the runway for arrival or departure and quite rightly, TWR doesn't ask for this manoeuvre when the runway traffic is passing in front (or about to pass in front).

Much easier if the departure goes right up to the holding point in the first place or 121.7 simply doesn't use B4, B3 if there will be a B767 inbound prior to the departure (hard to do when the departure will be #5 for departure), or B737-800's, A320/321's are sent up to the full length (B1 & B2).

Question to SACL, would be removal of TWY B5 translate to the B4 holding point moving closer to RWY 16R?

[Captain Peacock]

I'm thinking holding lines were moved back a few years ago to give more clearance for A380 ops? It's still a 45m runway but the clearances to the sides are the same as a 60m one.

Just guessing here mind you. It all happened the same time MEL was widened to 60m and somebody said that they couldn't widen the SYD 16R/34L pavement for some reason but they could increase the clearance to the sides.

That's why the issue of bums infringing taxiway B has only been an issue on recent years.

[RATpin]

Spelling Nazi,I apologize for the thread drift.
A little too much red cordial I'm afraid.
cheers

[Roo]

....can we all please stop being so scared of the hold line and move up to it please?
I hear you. However my hunch is the problem is not fear of the line, but a misconception of where ones proboscis is. I fly the 767 and we were taught to locate the nose by using a sight line across the front corner of a side windscreen. However if one bothers to check where this line meets the ground, it is way too conservative. Meets the ground about 4 or 5m in front of the nose. So I refined it to where it really is. Easy to test. Next time someone is doing a walkaround, get them to walk a line perpendicular to the radome to see how accurate your current methodology is. Cant hurt and you might be surprised like I was.

[airtags]

missy is on track

[coolbananas]

Are we all happy to see B5 go? It's a rare DH8 that uses it maybe a Kingair or two...

[ejectx3]

Is B5 being sent to Asia too?

[sunnySA]

Are we all happy to see B5 go?
Yes, very happy to see B5 go. SACL did away with TWY Kilo West which was more useful than TWY B5 ever was, go figure.

[amos2]

If you blokes can't park your aircraft correctly at the holding point, then you shouldn't be in command!

Lift your standard! :=:=

[ejectx3]

I assume you're joking Amos?

[Scamp Damp]

He must work for JQ