If a purser introduce him or herself as an Inflight manager in the first PA???

[enthusiast]

Do you think that is a good expression? a manager in flight equals a captain. Is it right? I think so. Consequently, the inflight manager as a word introducing purser to passenger is inadequate. Could you let me know your opinion as a cabin crew. Thank you very much.

[Fluffy Bunny]

Just another "buzzword" title to try and blind you to the fact that whomever it is just happens to be the senior trolly dolly because Purser sounds old fashioned.

Cabin Services Manager being another good example.

[Dawdler]

Wouldn't the first PA normally come from the flight deck? Something along the lines of "I'm Bill Morgan, your captain on this flight to.... my First Officer is John Smith,... Senior Cabin Crew member is Cheryl .... etc.,

[vctenderness]

Captain is the 'Senior Manager' on board there are, of course, other managers.
In BA the CSD is a manager and the Pursers are 'cabin managers'.

It is normal in BA for the Captain/ FO to make the first announcement and then others follow.

I'm not sure the majority of SLF really give a monkies what names are used if the service is good and all goes well.

When it turns to **** thats when it counts!

[mad_jock]

Whats the FO then in the grand scale of things?

Or are they just the Captains sexual advisor?

[vctenderness]

Whats the FO then in the grand scale of things?

Or are they just the Captains sexual advisor?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tut tut.They are also a manager but the thread was about Captain and cabin crew.

Of course they may also be the Captains advisor!

[flapsforty]

Hi Enthusiast,

You are asking if we think Inflight Manager is a good expression.
Firstly I´d say that it doesn´t really matter what we are called.
Secondly, for my personal taste, the word manager is just a bit too generic. The old fashioned "Purser" has a nautical / aviation feel to it, which is why I like it better. But that´s just me.

You write that a manager in flight equals a captain. I´m not quite sure what you are saying.
Yes the captain = the manager of the flight, so if that´s what you mean with 'equals', I´d agree.
If you mean that the highest ranking member of the cabin crew equals the captain, then that is not the case in any airline I know of.
Order of rank at the majority of airlines:

Captain
First Officer - copilot
Second Officer - cocopilot
(Flight Engineer)
CSD / Inflight Manager / Senior Purser / CCP
Second ranking member of CC / Purser
Flight Attendants

When both cockpit and cabin cabin crew members are aware of the chain of command, and respect it both 'upwards' and 'downwards', in my experience it makes for a safe, predictable and pleasant working environment.

Regarding the PA, it´s all a bit of a pointless discussion because the vast majority of passengers either doesn´t listen to the PA, doesn´t understand the PA and just couldn´t care less which crew member is called what anyway.
And why should they?

Dawdler, who makes the first PA is wholly dependent on company SOPs; no world wide rule for that. :)



PS:Mad-jock; what´d be the point of the lame advising the blind? :p

[Three Thousand Rule]

I'm not sure the majority of SLF really give a monkies what names are used if the service is good and all goes well.

Spot on.

Most of us don't want to be there in the first place and can't wait to get off at the other end.

[dontdoit]

Anyone getting on like this on My Aircraft will be invited into the Flight Deck for some CRM (Count the Rings Mate).

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Anyone getting on like this on My Aircraft will be invited into the Flight Deck for some CRM (Count the Rings Mate).

Which is exactly why CRM training is such a valuable tool as it is slowly but surely getting rid of such bully boy tactics :=

[Piltdown Man]

Most of us don't want to be there in the first place and can't wait to get off at the other end.

Are we talking about passengers or cabin crew? I can understand passengers not wanting to fly but cabin crew? They have a choice.

With regard to titles, as far as I am concerned, people can call themselves whatever they want. Just so long as everyone knows who is charge. On the subject as to who speaks first, again I'm not too fussed just so long as someone has said hello and welcomed our passengers. In my opinion it is better to depart on time without the yakkity-yack than to depart late (and potentially arrive late) - because you did a PA.

PM

[grounded27]

it is just happens to be the senior trolly dolly because Purser sounds old fashioned

Just as old fashioned as the term "Captian" is, should respect history and be proud of it.

There are 3 factions that manage aircraft, Maintenance "Engineers" on the ground, Cabin crew "a Purser" of our customers for pax / equally a "Loadmaster" for freight and the PIC or "Captain" who is responsible for safety in flight, in the cockpit and accepts an airworthy aircraft prior to flight and makes decisions to maintain it from block out to block in.

[Romulus]

Anyone getting on like this on My Aircraft will be invited into the Flight Deck for some CRM (Count the Rings Mate).

Anyone who does that should be invited to meet a real Captain for a discussion as to rank that is actually earned... :ooh:

[mad_jock]

Mad-jock; what´d be the point of the lame advising the blind?

Well thats very sexist Flaps. In this day and age of "Captain your doing the walk round cause its peeing down and my hair will get frizzy and I have just washed and straightened it this morning" the level of sexual advice has improved no end.

For example I have learned that after depressurising ones bowels and calling badger (this instigates memory items recirc fan off) it moves your sexual chances from next to fark all, to fark all. Although to be fair even if I am very well behaved for a month it still doesn't get above when hell freezes over.

xxx

[DX Wombat]

"Captain your doing the walk round cause its peeing down and my hair will get frizzy and I have just washed and straightened it this morning" Are the girls as fussy about such things MJ or do they take a more commonsense view? ;) Granny.
Edited to add that Flaps is right, there are so many different names for the job that I just listen for a vaguely relevant title and name.

[yotty]

FALPS... I don't expect there are that many talented pilots that could do their normal flying duties and be a LAME as well!;)

[Three Thousand Rule]

Piltdown Man

I you have another look at post #8, you will see I was replying to a comment about SLF, which is what I are.

We do often have a choice to be there (e.g. going on hols), but most pax I speak with find flying either boring or a little scary and regard the flight as a necessary evil, rather than a great experience.

[Ancient Observer]

Most folk supervising other folk who are supposed to be delivering excellent customer service - (but with their hands tied behind their backs as the beancounters won't pay for excellence) are called supervisors.

"Accountable supervisor" would be a grand title. Beats that CSD nonsense.

[vctenderness]

Most folk supervising other folk who are supposed to be delivering excellent customer service - (but with their hands tied behind their backs as the beancounters won't pay for excellence) are called supervisors.

"Accountable supervisor" would be a grand title. Beats that CSD nonsense.


I have always thought that instead of CSD Senior Cabin Captain has a nice ring to it however when I once suggested this to my flight crew colleagues they strongly and emphatically disagreed before asking me to vacate the flight deck.:8

[Slasher]

Wouldn't the first PA normally come from the flight deck?

Nope - its always been from the Purser as far back as I recall.

As captain I'm a pilot not a bloody DJ. I make one very brief
PA using only the bare essential elements as required by the
SOP. There is just far far too much yakking to pax these days,
who just want to get from A to B without all the excess verbal
diarrhea (not to mention PA volume levels so damn loud it must
be assumed by many Pursers most pax belong to the Foundation
For The Deaf!)

And everybody knows what a Purser is - ask me what a CSD
is and I'll reply its a component connected to the eng driven
AC generator. Again there are too many confusing acronyms
that I need about two helpings of alphabet soup to keep up!

[TightSlot]

...not to mention PA volume levels so damn loud it must
be assumed by many Pursers most pax belong to the Foundation
For The Deaf!

Just for the record... I haven't yet worked on an aircraft where I had any control whatsoever (beyond modulating my own voice) over the P.A. volume: I'm low time on Airbus, so could be out of date on this, but otherwise - It's a snag for the Gingers if too loud.

[Slasher]

No the Purser has no direct control of PA volume on the FAP
of an Airbus Tightslut, but a quick writeup in the Cabin Log
can get the gingers to bring it down a decibel or thousand.

Many of 'em don't bother.

[flapsforty]

Top tip Slash, thanks! :ok:

[Mr Optimistic]

'We do often have a choice to be there (e.g. going on hols), but most pax I speak with find flying either boring or a little scary and regard the flight as a necessary evil, rather than a great experience.'

Exactly: no passenger is going to spot the significance of who makes the first or last PA or understand the nuances of a proclaimed role/job title. I do feel announcements from the FD have become less in recent years which is a pity: think you may underestimate the significant difference the PAX attribute to announcements from the FD as opposed to the CC. In the end it makes no difference though, we still pay, get on and complain.

[mixture]

If you mean that the highest ranking member of the cabin crew equals the captain, then that is not the case in any airline I know of.

Erm, surely by virtue of the Air Navigation Order, the Captain will outrank any other person on the aircraft ?

[grounded27]

I don't really see how any crew member is a "Manager". All have very well defined job definitions. A captain gives orders if needed to flight crew and only needs be concerned with the cabin if there is a problem that may require him/her alter the planned flight occasionally needed to take responsibility for a CC decision the purser is not comfortable with. A purser is more of a working supervisor or "lead flight attendant", should be capable of making just about all inflight decisions concerning the cabin, service and safety.

"inflight manager" gives me a visual of a flight attendant sitting behind a desk just behind the cockpit door keeping track of galley supply??

[rmac]

Perhaps the need for a manager depends on the size of the aircraft. I imagine that the A380 is very much in need of a manager down the back to keep a fairly large cabin staff working in harmony...

[Bond'll Do]

Just to share a funny old story and that explains my 'handle' here on PPrune.

Many moons ago, I was asked by the 'A' lady (person who made the initial welcome aboard P.A's on BOAC/BA longhaul) and perhaps still does, how I would like to be addressed on the P.A. It was a particularly busy pre-flight time in the cockpit with various technical 'snags' to deal with and I replied "Bond ('ll) aka 'will do'". Some Captains liked to use their first names as well.

So, my nickname stuck as 'Capt. Bond'll do' and stayed with me the rest of my career.

:ugh: hahahah....many Captains in those days somehow 'earned a nickname'. As did many of the seniour cabin crew.

To me, it was a quasi-legal procedure/policy with BOAC/BA that to comply with Civil Aviation Authority regulations a member of the crew was required to state the flight number and destination. Yes, despite security/gate admin checks then (and possibly now) one used to get the odd 'stray' passenger on the wrong flight!

Then there was the quasi-legalese to issue warnings about care with overhead baggage, no-smoking policy, the upcoming safety announcement etc.,

As has been highlighted already, the actual 'title' of the crew member wasn't particularly of importance. On BOAC/BA longhaul the 'A' lady/gent worked at D1L and amongst other duties, was responsible for 'a'nnouncements.

This 'A' person used to come up to the cockpit and ask for an 'actual' estimated flight time to share this with passengers as well. (as the 'scheduled' flight time often differed considerably from the planned or 'actual' FT).

Whoever was in charge of the cabin services also used to come up to the flight deck and formally introduce themselves. In the late BOAC/early BA days this person was called (probably from Cunard shipping days/and flying boats) the Cabin Services Officer or Seniour Cabin Services Officer (CSO or SCSO) who wore 4 gold stripes on their uniforms. Pursers wore 3, Junior Stewards/Stewardesses wore 2.

In terms of what is now called 'Crew Resource Management' in it's wider scale than perhaps nowadays, we usually worked as a team both on and off the aircraft. The CSO would generally be in charge of 'entertainment' off the aircraft during the 'layovers' or days off at destination/en-route stopover.

I feel that I could write a book on the intricacies and subtleties of these things....however....I shall not.

All I will share in response is that a mature 'A' lady or gent would give the passengers the required welcome onboard. I or my co-pilot would then briefly introduce ourselves usually before takeoff and share a bit about the journey, as planned, such as routeing information or any expected delays/weather, then introduce the seniour cabin crew member. The only other time I would generally speak to passengers was personally on a 'walk-about' of the whole aircraft starting off in First Class and working my way around to chat to those that seemed to wish to chat. Obviously this is sadly pre-9/11 days.

During that walkabout, if anyone, especially children/parents expressed an interest in seeing the flight-deck, we would arrange that with the cabin crew for a suitable time after my walk-about. This was the 'norm'. The walk-about was usually well into the flight after all passengers had been served their drinks/meal.

I used to take written notes of any particular passenger concerns or problems and hand these to the CSO/CSD to deal with personally after my walkabout.

On very very few occasions did i feel it necessary to intervene with perhaps a seniour crew member with 'poor' attitude or such situation. 95% percent of the time, we all worked as a team and respected each other as Professionals.

I trust that this reply goes some way to address the posted question. Most Captains want to work with all cabin crew to achieve a safe and happy flight environment and reciprocally. On a personal note, I do miss (as I am now a passenger) somewhat the mature voice of a trained/experienced person on the aircraft P.A. system.

I like genuine and well-spoken P.A.'s without 'sing-song' and inauthentic announcements as if they are read out of a book or with poor command of actually speaking to real people in the language required for stylish and succinct customer service.

For those that are required to make announcements both on airlines or wherever....it does help to 'assume' that when one is making these announcements that one is talking to a friend. When one is able to do that, one has the 'customer' on your side and holds your confidence and trust that the announcee is a professional human being.

Warmest Regards to all in my sharing of this.

Sincerely, :ok:

[grounded27]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I hold a high reguard for the aviation culture that you were a part of. I have fond memories of many flight and cabin crew in my early career that I worked with as a flight mechanic. Now in the package freight world I feel far disconnected from even the flight crew I only see at the gate, we may as well be working for 2 different companies.

I used to look at our PAX charters I worked as a pain in the arse but now have only proud memories of of them!

[TightSlot]

Thanks Bond'll Do

A lovely post that brought back memories of more pleasant days.

I feel that I could write a book on the intricacies and subtleties of these things....however....I shall not.

Pity!

[rethymnon]

today often need to be accompanied by subtitles. there's one Irish airline in particular where it is frequently impossible to understand more than a couple of words. but then , i've often thought a certain football manager could benefit from on-screen subtitles too!

[ilesmark]

Reading this reminds me of a flight I took from Monastir to LGW early in 2010.

On the plane, as it was taxi-ing for takeoff

"Hello and welcome to this Thomas Cook flight XXX. This is your captain speaking. My name is XXX and with me on the flight deck is Senior First Officer XXX. May I also take this opportunity to introduce our Cabin Manager, who is Gay. We shall be cruising at a height of XXX etc etc etc"

Needless to say, the whole cabin erupted in hysteria as soon as he got to the bit about the Cabin Manager, and nobody took in much else.

10 minutes later, after the plane had left Monastir (woman's voice this time)

"Hello and welcome to this Thomas Cook flight XXX. My name is Gay and I'm your Cabin Manager today...etc etc"

you couldn't make it up

Mark

[strake]

My late Father-in-Law was an SCSO for BOAC/BA who retired in 1979. I recall seeing him in full uniform, (four rings and half a wing - with a bit of scrambled egg on his cap) heading down to Heathrow in his old Vauxhall Ventora for a three week trip to Oz with back and forths to AUK, SIN etc.
I think in those days, the SCSO was seen as one of the senior crew - the Captain was the boss, the FO helped him, the FE managed the tech and the CSO managed the CC and Pax..and all was well with the world ;)
When I started flying as a passenger a few years later, the SCSO had all but been phased out but the CSD's had the same standards - particularly for First passengers. I have many memories of flying regularly to SYD in First with the truly excellent service from people who knew how to deliver it properly without being sycophantic or obsequious. Maybe the Pax also knew how to behave as well...
Bygone days I think.

[beerdrinker]

Bond'll do reminds me of the First Officer who had his own name badge made up - "Anjou"

When asked he would explain that the hostie working the cockpit would come up to the cockpit, introduce herself to the Captain and ask how he wanted his tea - milk, sugar etc and anything else - Torygraph or whatever. Then she would turn to the right side of the cockpit and say to the F/O - "Anjou"

BD