Qantas/ JQ mou ops cont

[standard]

Standard, I dont work for Jetstar. But I'll support a Jetstar pilot over a QF pilot any day. Why? simply because they work a hell of a lot harder and they earn a hell of a lot less and therfore do it a hell of a lot tougher than you! and I respect that, I don't care what happened in the past. That's completely irrelevant because most employees at jetstar joined well after their establishment. They joined because they needed employment to survive and with their qualifications and experience, perhaps Jetstar was the only choice they had. They certainly would not turn an offer down just to protect the flying and salary of some snooty faced, over paid prick in another airline.

Salary sacrificing $40,000 for an endorsement places a hell of a burden on ones income so yes I would describe that as doing the "hard yards". Since you're probably sitting on tripple figures I'm guessing that's something you clearly know nothing about.

Your arrogance and pretentiousness is outstanding! If you have an opportunity to join Jetstar then take my advice and turn it down cause people like you will simply not fit in...

..."There's more than 1 airline in the world" remember?


Skyhook, your ignorance is astounding!

If your think that taking pity on a group of pilots because as you say “Jetstar was the only choice they had. They certainly would not turn an offer down just to protect the flying and salary of some snooty faced, over paid prick in another airline” is the right attitude to have, well, you are clearly deluded.

At no stage we’re they given the option of protecting “some snooty faced, over paid prick in another airline”!, they were simply taking a job, and judging by your comment you are obviously a management ****** or jealous underpaid tosser working overseas, or even worse not even a pilot. I think that many Jetstar guys would take offence, as I do to your destructive comments.

I don’t care who you work for and I am happy to comment on an open forum anytime.

If you do not work for Jetstar then how the hell would you know whether I would fit in or not?,

I can promise you that I have a long time left in this career and I appreciate the importance of ensuring that nationally all work conditions move towards that of Qantas’, as in my opinion, it is the world standard, our safety record reflect this, and while there can be efficiencies gained in any industry, this is a benchmark.

If by pretentious (which you spelt incorrect) you mean I care about my family, my profession, colleagues and conditions than yes I am.

And yes I am on a triple (not triple as you spelt it) figure salary, and I, as all pilots are, worth every cent!.

I suggest you keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself, otherwise put them towards a worthy cause.

Kind regards,

Standard

[Uncashed Pilot]

Good to see the thread going again, QF moderators dont want the hidden agenda out in the open.
ie AIPA have been working tirelessly to get the JQ pilots offside so they can walk in to the 787 positions with QF pilots and no endorsement costs.
It shows the level of intelligence of the JQ pilots who paid for ratings yet the QF pilots who probably could afford it get a deservingly free ride.
The ultimate ending will be displacement of JQ pilots overseas while the QF pilots soak up the sun in AUS.

[xer]

Is QF FLT OPS simply offering these free J* endorsements to QF pilots as a cheap way out their FWA redundancy requirements.

If QF makes pilots redundant while J* is recruiting QF will not only have to pay the endorsement cost but all additional costs and the pilot will stay on the QF award at J*. Won't the J* pilots be pissed with that!

QF FLT OPS would like QF pilots to think they are doing them a big favour but its actually the other way around.

Anyone considering a move under LWOP/MOU would be better off waiting and being forced to go.

[*Lancer*]

Is anyone aware of any MOU eligible pilot being contacted?

xer, so how would that work: the 180 most junior get promoted to JQ? Wouldn't want to be 181 from the bottom! :eek:

Skysook I can appreciate your frustration, but when you say "all of a sudden a group of people think they have every right to just come along and walk into our airline and take our jobs and destroy everything we have worked for since day 1", you're expressing the (somewhat misguided) sentiment many felt when Jetstar started operations and the MOU was written.

Whether some have developed a warped sense of entitlement all of a sudden is immaterial: the MOU has been around for almost seven years. There are a lot of ‘JQ MOU’ numbers on the Qantas seniority list also. Hopefully this can be the first step in achieving some sort of access to mutual opportunities with a bit more sustainability than the MOU currently provides.

[blacksmoke]

But only those in qf when it was signed(2004) are entitled to the q numbers on the jokestar list.Anyone employed after the mou was signed are entitled to come across but at the bottom of their list. Or this what most guys were made to believe.

[xer]

Is anyone aware of any MOU eligible pilot being contacted? - No

so how would that work: - S311 of the fair work act (Home | Fair Work Australia (http://www.FWA.gov.au))

181 from the bottom. - Lucky guy/gal gets to stay in QF!

There is no doubt the endorsement carrot is being offered as the cost of retraining and moving people to other bases will be a massive expense to QF. eg. The junior Perth 737 FO's

[ejectx3]

For those getting all upset about QF pilots coming across to Jetstar, bear in mind that..

1) Primarily the only reason QF are laying people off is due to the formation of Jetstar.

2) Since we are all in the same company, those who've been in longer should get priority on the positions available...It's not 'your airline'. It's all part of the loving Qantas group.

[Howard Hughes]

The ultimate ending will be displacement of JQ pilots overseas while the QF pilots soak up the sun in AUS.
You don't appear to be watching the same game that I am!;)

[waren9]

ejectx3

Why dont QF pilots take that logic one step further and argue for the 2 seniority lists to be merged? It would have been a far better insurance policy than the MOU. Not many QF pilots would have voted for that in 2004.


W9

[Beer Baron]

waren9, I believe AIPA had been pursuing a Group Opportunity Allocation List (GOAL) for several years but the company said no way - never!

Admittedly it was after 2004 and not identical to a merged seniority list but similar intent.

[ANCDU]

xer, I believe that the guys going for command slots have been contacted and interviewed over the last week or so, after their sim results had been reviewed. I understand the 15 initial command positions have been filled. I get the feeling more will be advertised to Q pilots when required to help alleviate the surplus of pilots there.

[outside limits]

How were these 14 positions determined? I applied as an MOU pilot, 10,000+, airbus time, etc,no phone call !!!! Im sure its not an isolated case, anyone care to comment?

[Beer Baron]

outside limits, the MOU (part 8.2) states that where more than 1 suitable applicant applies for a vacancy the offer will go to the pilot with higher Qantas seniority.

So I'm guessing your particular experience may not come into it. I guess we won't know till we see the seniority of the guys who got the slots.

[The Green Goblin]

I don't understand why anyone in Qantas above the bottom 180 on the list would come across.

Unless of course they are desperate for a command. As far as I'm aware though, once you come across for a command, there is no going back to mainline. At least the FOs can come across, bide there time in the right seat of an Airbus and wait for things to improve back in mainline.

The only way I'd contemplate it is if I were in the bottom 180 guys and needed to secure a job.

With the change of leadership that is imminent and with hopefully a replacement strategy, I would not write Qantas off yet.

I suspect a new leader will jump in, make some sweeping changes and place emergency aircraft orders. I.E 777-300ERs.

Make it as difficult in the mean time for them to get rid of you!

[ruprecht]

Goblin.

The rationale goes like this:

Some SO's are eligible under the MOU to transfer to Jet*. As far as the MOU goes it's first in, best dressed, so they reason that they can go across to Jet* now and be very senior, get their FO time up and be eligible for a command within the LWOP period. Then they can either take it and stay with Jet* or if they don't they can come back to mainline (assuming there is a mainline to come back to). That QF are paying for the endorsement is making it quite attractive for some.

The problem is if you're going to go under the MOU and want a quick road to command you need to go now, because for every 10 guys ahead of you, that's 30 numbers further down the list; the longer you leave it, the worse off you'll be. So they figure that 2-3 years of increased workload and reduced pay gives them 2000+ hours of FO time and maybe a command.

For info: I'm covered by the MOU but I'm not going.

ruprecht

[outside limits]

Not true,anyone under the mou can return. Read it.

[Ochre Insider]

If you go to JQ for a command spot under the MOU, you have three years grace. At the end of that period you either resign from Qantas and remain with Jetstar permanently, or you return to Qantas in which case your seniority number at Jetstar vanishes.

If you go to JQ for an FO slot under the MOU, you must resign from Qantas if you want to take a command.

[outside limits]

Well then, very senior crew take pay cut for JQ cpt slots. Big win for PW & AJ as its now obvious that JQ terms & conditions are more than adequate. Australian COS just got screwed today. A QF 767 cpt has accepted JQ A320 command considering atleast a $50k pay cut. Wtf

[waren9]

Well, clearly for that pilot and surely a few more, "what price a mediocum of certainty?". A command now or possibly risk going to the bottom of the list in a base far far away in the future.

[Shark Patrol]

I would suggest that mainline pilots are taking MOU slots in Jetstar (even with a significant paycut) because they are sick and tired of being derided by Joyce and his cronies and would rather be in a position where there is certainty and some expanding opportunities.

Don't forget that with what the gnome is pushing for in the "New Spirit" of Qantas (that is, effectively killing it - hence "spirit" I guess), all mainline pilots will be taking a severe pay cut anyway due lost overtime, allowances, reverting to blank lines, reserve lines, demotiuons etc. As for me, I could never enter the Orange Cancer. Going to an interview and being asked "Why do you want to work for Jetstar?" would probably precipitate violence.

[ejectx3]

Amen to that brother . What an
Insult

[Artificial Horizon]

Problem is, there is no longer any certainty at Jetstar. Look at the recent attempts to introduce a new 'group' contract and guarantees from (mis)management that new commands would still be available within the GROUP not necessarily within Jetstar Australia on the EBA. If you think Joyce and Qantas management are bad wait until you experience Jetstar. :ugh:

[Keg]

I suspect that for some of the QF crew, this is about an airbus endorsement, some time in the respective seat and then pulling the pin and going elsewhere. Good luck to them if that's the case.

[Going Boeing]

Keg, I think you're on the money. Emirates won't accept the S/Os until they become current F/Os, so their best option is to take a JQ position (with or without the MOU) and once they meet the EK criteria, off they go. No one will feel any obligation to QF even with them paying for the endorsement. Good luck to all the guys - I hope their next employer respects them.

[desmotronic]

pre·ten·tious/priˈtenCHəs/Adjective: Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

[toolish]

That high moral ground quickly disappears when it is your livelihood at stake.

[outside limits]

Stil interviewing this week for cpt positions