Fast jet-bird strike

[grandfer]

I seem to recall there was a bird strike on a Hawk at Brawdy (I think) where the bird went through the forward part of the canopy , struck the pilot's helmet then took out the box on top of the seat which deployed the drogue chute . The front seater was incapacitated & couldn't eject or see to land the aircraft , however the back seater was un-injured & was able to safely land the aircraft .

[sharpend]

That may have been me (from Chivenor). A mallard duck came through the windscreen (not the cannopy) and totally blinded me. It also surged the engine, but I later relit it. I landed blind at Wittering. The nav in the back could not fly the Hawk, but made the RT calls as I could not (my face was rather rearranged). Subsequently, the front windscreens of Hawks were redesigned

[grandfer]

Cheers "Sharpend" , I reckon it must have been your "incident" I was thinking about , the old one remaining braincell isn't quite up to this memory lark nowadays !:confused::confused::ok:

[EGLD]

That may have been me (from Chivenor). A mallard duck came through the windscreen (not the cannopy) and totally blinded me. It also surged the engine, but I later relit it. I landed blind at Wittering. The nav in the back could not fly the Hawk, but made the RT calls as I could not (my face was rather rearranged). Subsequently, the front windscreens of Hawks were redesigned

Amazing story!

Did you make a partial/full physical recovery after the incident?

[newt]

Hi Sharpend!! Just worrked out who you might be!! Cheers Newt:ok:

[Magic90]

'Sharpened' - That would have been around the mid 80s, I was there when they fitted the thicker windscreen, we were forever taking birdstrikes at Chivenor. I also remember Rory Underwood was one of the studes on 151sqn...just as well his rugby was better than his flying. :)

[airpolice]

Sharpend, did you have your clear visor down at the time?

[sharpend]

Sadly I never made a full recovery. I never flew fast jets again as I am still blind in one eye. That said, I did have a full career in big jets and still fly my own Cirrus.

[sharpend]

Yup, clear visor was down. It shattered into lots of pieces, but I was flying at 450 kts so the energy was equivalent to a sledghammer at 150 kts. Difficult to stop!

[sharpend]

Yes Newt, I am me!

[sharpend]

Yup, I was 'Boss' of 151 (f) Sqn at the time. So they have me to thank for the better windscreen. Bit late for me, like closing the stable door. Pity I got no compensation for a ruined career, just a visit to Buck House & a gong.

[Exascot]

I never flew fast jets again

Excuse me, I have had this argument before with your previous colleagues Sharpend. The VC10 is a fast jet. As you know we have had to slow down on military routes due to a slow 'fast jet' ahead. ;)

[Charles E Taylor]

Canopy impact strength?

A little off topic and not a Hawk, but some very graphic recent canopy tests for the F1 racing cars of the future. I post this link to show some of the work still going on for safety in all areas of high speed endeavour.

FIA Institute Jet Canopy Test [HD] - YouTube

This looks like full canopy would survive a bird strike at circuit speed.

I hope the RAFAT FDR gives some info, I understand the Reds have a limited FDR fit.


Take care.


Charlie

[airpolice]

Sharpend, not just any old Gong. Well done you. Did the clear visor get any upgrade from the lessons learned during the investigation into this incident?

How do the current batch of visors compare with what you had that day?

[sharpend]

I'm sure it is impossible to produce a visor that can withstand anything. I did hear at the time of my accident that an F16 pilot actually lost his head hitting a bird. He had his visor down. 2 kgs of Mallard at 500 mph is a lot of energy.

As for today, I have no idea what protects our gallant pilots. For me, I have a carbon fibre propellor and never exceed 180 kts!

[HeavyMetallist]

From a design perspective birdstrike protection is basically all about statistics; what birds do you expect to encounter with a given usage of the aircraft, at what speeds? It's always possible to increase the degree of protection, but there are penalties in terms of weight and escape system performance.

[Smudger]

Sharpend... you had a full career flying big jets albeit being blind in one eye... how did you manage that..? I'm a little confused..

[RedhillPhil]

Wasn't there a one eyed Canadian F-86 driver of a few years ago?

Edit: I've just found him. Syd Burrows.

[Karl Bamforth]

I remember a hawk landing at Leeming in the early eighties having hit a bird. It penetrated the fuselage just below the windscreen and hit the pilot in the face.

Destroyed both visors and his oxy mask. I can't remember what his injuries were but he was covered in blood, possible bird remains. I remember at the time I was stunned that the pilot was capable of flying the aircraft back as he could hardly stand and had to be helped from the aircraft. Clearly he was running on adrenaline.

[Madbob]

There have been several cases of pilots who had lost the sight of one eye continuing to fly albeit as part of the crew of a multi-piloted ac, both as captains as well as co-pilots.

One was Bill A*****r a Herc captain of note who came very close to having to ditch in the south atlantic off Ascension. Bill ISTR lost his eye due to a birdstrike whilst flying a Hunter but I stand to be corrected, it was a long time ago....

MB

[sharpend]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the one eyed Hunter pilot became a navigator. At the time of me losing the sight of one eye (1983) there were no pilots with one eye. I was the first at that date & then only able to fly 'as or with co-pilot'. Later, having flown royalty & heads of state as captain I persuaded their airships to let me fly solo & as a full FI. Sadly I never flew the VC10 solo. ;)

[sharpend]

Here is what happens when a little dicky bird hits you. Sorry the photos are so big, not sure how to get them smaller. Still, you do get a gory view ;)

http://pittenweem.co.uk/weeimg032.jpg

http://pittenweem.co.uk/weeimg033.jpg

[sharpend]

List of injuries:

Factured skull
Fractured cheek bone
Loss of one eye
Loss of vision in 'good' eye
Broken nose
etc etc

so the moral is: keep your visor down & don't fly at 450 kts! :ok:

[cats_five]

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[Clockwork Mouse]

Wow Sharpend! Some blokes will go to any lengths to pull the birds!

I tried evening up the score in the late 60s when we were young and soldiering was still fun. When things were quiet, which was fairly often, my Flt Comd and I would fly out onto the remote moors, land, take off the RH door, and go duck hunting. I flew while he hung out of the door with his 12 bore. The ducks and we had about the same VNE and G limits, so we were evenly matched.

It was completely outrageous, huge fun and excellent low level aircraft handling practice. Despite a considerable expenditure of powder, I don’t actually remember that we managed to smoke one of the little blighters though.

[Avionker]

Sharpend

Please don't think for one second that I am criticising you, as a non-pilot I am in no position to do so. I am just curious as to what led you to the decision to stay with the aircraft rather than eject.

I have been thinking about it and, with my admittedly limited knowledge, I have come up with what I think are some pros and cons to ejecting in that situation.

Pros:-

You said that the engine had surged once and, although you had carried out a successful relight, it could have happened again at a critical stage of the approach.

There may have been other structural damage that you were unaware of.

Your injuries may have been worse than you thought, leading to a loss of consciousness. Does the Hawk have a command ejection system from the rear seat?


Cons:-

As you had lost your visor I assume that an ejection would have worsened your facial injuries, not something anyone would voluntarily do. Not to mention the regular ejection injuries for both yourself and your navigator.

As with any ejection there would be the possibility of casualties on the ground if the aircraft came down in the wrong place.

The airframe may be saved. And in this case I assume the fact that the damage to the windscreen could be examined, helped in the process of the subsequent re-design.







Obviously one of the big benefits was that you could get immediate medical attention after landing, and as serious as your injuries were, I am glad that they were no worse.

I wonder if you would care to comment, I'm sure my pros and cons are in no way exhaustive, and I was sitting down comfortably thinking about it. Not with a face full of duck, blind, in pain and in a very perilous situation!

[sharpend]

Firstly, the Hawk does have a command ejection system and the Nav in the back could have used it. But one always leaves an ejection as late as possible.

Why did I not eject? Very good question.

The blow from the duck rendered me unconcious for a period; not sure how long. When I came to I was bleeding so fast that if I had ejected I would have bled to death (I lost 4 pts). No helos in the area.

I also thought I could land the aeroplane off a GCA, despite very limited vision and no windscreen (try looking out of a car window at 200 mph). In the likely event of me screwing up I could also eject & then I would be close to the blood wagon.

In the event it all worked thanks to adrenaline. Left the aeroplane on the runway, engine running, ejector seat live. Naughty me!

[Avionker]

Left the aeroplane on the runway, engine running, ejector seat live. Naughty me!

Given the circumstances, I sure we can forgive you. ;)

Thanks for the reply.

[Windy Militant]

Hello Sharpend,
Unless there was a similar event at Brawdy, It was your drouge pack at the SAAFA Airday at Aberporth in 84 or 85.
Either way the damage to the pack was incredible it was stoved in so badly there were tears in the aluminium. Even a lay man could see there was no way it would have worked after that.
So just as well you brought her down safely!

[Jig Peter]

At the Valiant/Victor OCU at Gaydon in the late '50s, one John Crampton, on the Valiant side, was also well known for his exploits racing Jaguars (4 wheels, piston engines) internationally, as well as only having sight in one eye.

[airpolice]

Sharpend, check PMs

http://pittenweem.co.uk/weeimg032.jpg


http://pittenweem.co.uk/weeimg033.jpg

[STANDTO]

Well Sharpend, now I know how you got those handsome and rugged features.

It is a bloody remarkable story, and I sir, am richer for knowing you.

The other D.

[henry crun]

sharpend: If you havn't read this story before it may be of interest to you. Drama in the skies - features - sunday-star-times | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/3192692/Drama-in-the-skies)

[JP1]

Sharpend,

I'd like to say thank you for posting your story and photographs. Obviously I appreciate the event had a major impact on your RAF career and personal life and was a life changing event, which as you say nearly killed you. I found it, and the article in the London Gazette very interesting.

[Romeo Oscar Golf]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the one eyed Hunter pilot became a navigator

Correct, Canberras and Buccs I recall. Squabbling Bleeder and nice guy (for a Hunter pilot):E

[moggiee]

As well as Mr Sharpend, we had a second one-eyed VC10 driver at Brize - initials "JR" - who was one of the OCU instructors when Sharpend and I were on the OCU course together (I as just a VERY young Fg Off co-pilot at the time)

[Rakshasa]

Didn't D***** B***** have a similar close scrape in a Hawk about 15 years ago? I forget the Nav's name but ISTR banged them both out.