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ChristiaanJ
22nd Aug 2011, 16:41
Found on AvWeb:

Donald Trump is literally making a show (on YouTube) of the $100 million custom 757 that he purchased form Paul Allen in February. It's significantly larger than the Boeing 727 he previously operated, but Trump is not without his old steed. His 727 has been for sale since 2009, asking $8 million. The newer jet's interior wears 24-carat gold on exposed metals from sink faucets to seat belts. It has a first-class seating area, a separate lounge and a separate bedroom. The tour doesn't cost anything.

Made me ask two questions.....

- How much gold is there in an "average" aircraft? Let's say a 727 to fix ideas.
Gold is used to plate connector pins in the wiring, and in the avionics, and possibly in a few other places.
Does anybody have a "back-of-the-envelope" figure?
Even before the price of gold hit the current highs, it was already worth it to recycle "stuff" like avionics for the gold alone.

- I suspect the "24-carat gold on exposed metals from sink faucets to seat belts" is a journalistic or PR exaggeration.... 'Pure' 24-carat gold is too soft for such applications and would rub off in no time.
Any comments?
Is your wedding ring '24-carat'? I hope not.

And a minor "blast from the past".
Once upon a time, in the analogue age, precision components like resistors and capacitors were supplied with gold-plated wires.
Bad idea.... because the gold interacted with the lead-and-tin solder used to solder the components on circuit boards, etc. leading to something called "purple plague" with the gold diffusing into the solder - leading to bad solder joints leading in turn to 'intermittents' and often difficult to find fallures.... (Been there, done that).

CJ

waco
22nd Aug 2011, 16:43
Oh sorry......thought it was a thread about Spandau Ballet !

radeng
22nd Aug 2011, 17:10
Purple plague was a real problem in integrated circuits.

ChristiaanJ
22nd Aug 2011, 17:26
Purple plague was a real problem in integrated circuits.Thanks, friend....
We were pestered by it outside integrated circuits as well.....

CJ

Tankertrashnav
22nd Aug 2011, 17:28
I think you'll find that 24 carat gold is used in plating, but the thickness used is vanishingly thin. For example it was (is?) commonplace to gild naval buttons as they would otherwise go green in no time in the salt air conditions at sea. I think I once read that 1 gramme of gold was sufficient to gild several hundred buttons, so even at present prices it's not really worth while melting down old buttons to recover the gold.

Btw most wedding rings are 22 ct - still pretty soft - if you've got an old one have a look at the hallmark inside and see how much it has worn.

BrATCO
22nd Aug 2011, 18:03
Btw most wedding rings are 22 ct - still pretty soft - if you've got an old one have a look at the hallmark inside and see how much it has worn.
My wedding ring is made of pure... silver.

We didn't have enough money to pay for golden ones in those times. We thought we would change them later.
But now, they're of sentimental value and we keep them because they are what they're meant to be : our wedding rings.
I've never taken mine off (except once, for an MRI after an accident) and I wouldn't change it for all the gold on Earth.

UniFoxOs
22nd Aug 2011, 18:34
OK, back of the envelope. In the early 80's I used to occasionally break up large mainframe computers for scrap. The gold content of one of these, which would probably have about the same number of connectors as a fair-sized transport jet, used to fetch me GBP 300 after it had been processed off by mincing up the connectors and dissolving the gold and then recovering it. I remember on one occasion the rep for the recycling company showing me the gold ingot (24 carat) from one such computer on his way to the jewellery quarter to sell it. It was about the size of two squares of a chocolate bar, I guess a bit over an ounce.

Cheers

UFO

tony draper
22nd Aug 2011, 18:59
There is a ball of molten pure gold a couple of hundred miles across floating at the center of the Earth,when the world had finished accreting and still in a molten state all the heavy elements fell toward the center under the effect of gravity,the books mention the sphere of molten nickle iron down there but they keep very quiet about the gold.
The buggas want it for themselves.
:rolleyes:

Carry0nLuggage
22nd Aug 2011, 22:29
Long before MsLuggage became DrLuggage she used to work in a jewellers mending and modifying jewellry. At one workshop, every few years the carpet was taken up and the accumulated gold dust reclaimed. On one occaision this was worth around £40k :eek:

ShyTorque
22nd Aug 2011, 23:43
There is a ball of molten pure gold a couple of hundred miles across floating at the center of the Earth,when the world had finished accreting and still in a molten state all the heavy elements fell toward the center under the effect of gravity,the books mention the sphere of molten nickle iron down there but they keep very quiet about the gold.
The buggas want it for themselves.

You'd better be right Mr. D.

I've just bought a new spade on the strength of that!

Krystal n chips
23rd Aug 2011, 03:09
" commonplace to gild naval buttons as they would otherwise go green in no time in the salt air conditions at sea "

Ah, there we have the answer then...presumably the gold on the interior furnishings and fittings is there to repel the effects of the hair spray / lacquer used to, er, retain the follicles.....:E

Tankertrashnav
23rd Aug 2011, 09:41
Reckon you're right K & C. I've got a pair of old brass taps in my kitchen which cost me a tenner and I think look rather good. On the other hand gold plated ones always look really tacky. They're the Breitling Navitimer of household fittings!

corsair
23rd Aug 2011, 09:50
There was a piece on the radio yesterday talking about Gold. So high is the price now that jewellers are finding it worthwhile selling their old stock for recycling rather than sell it to customers. Not least because gold has increased so much that customers are priced out of it.

I wonder though has the price peaked yet or is it close to peak? Once the currency crises subside there will be a drop in gold price. Like every bubble this one will burst too.

Captivep
23rd Aug 2011, 10:13
I've always wondered why gold is seen as a safe haven. After all, it's only got a value because everybody agrees it's got a value...

Emperor's new clothes, anyone?

Mr Grimsdale
23rd Aug 2011, 11:56
I agree, surely it's just another bubble waiting to burst when the rest of the economy improves.

Llademos
23rd Aug 2011, 12:42
I agree too, Mr G. My prediction:

1 - it will get to $2,000, but only because it's close to that anyway, and it's quite an alluring number

2 - it will fall at least 50% from its eventual high before the year is out


If I was a betting man, I'd be putting a spread bet on both. However, I'm too much of a chicken to put my money where my mouth is :)

Ll

Slasher
23rd Aug 2011, 12:49
I agree, surely it's just another bubble waiting to burst when the rest of the economy improves.

Huh? When the rest of the economy improves? :bored:

When's that going to happen Mr G? After gold hits $2500/troy as a non-fiat currency or before? http://serve.mysmiley.net/confused/confused0050.gif

Some of you really need to do some proper research or you'll be following Llademos here to the soup kitchen...

Llademos
23rd Aug 2011, 13:48
Slash,

As I said, I'm too much of a chicken to put my money where my mouth is, so the soup kitchen will have to wait.

I guess we'll see who's right in January - and if I am wrong I shall eat some humble pie on this forum in the manner of your choosing :eek:.

Ll

Mr Grimsdale
23rd Aug 2011, 14:10
Come on Slash, sooner or later things will improve - there can't be any more bad news... can there?:ok:

Surely gold has to be like any other bubble, be it property, equities or another commodity. When something better comes along all the institutions will bail out via their computerised trading systems and the little fish will be left with their gold being worth less than they paid for it.

Slasher
23rd Aug 2011, 14:15
Sorry Mr G but its going to get much much worse before it
ever gets better. Those in the greatest potential poop are
residents of the US and within the Eurozone.

I have been posting for the past few months over at the US
Hamsterwheel Thread about this very thing. If you've got the
time and patience you can thumb through my posts there and
see where I'm coming from.

Mr Grimsdale
23rd Aug 2011, 14:17
I've heard similar things from a guy I know who used to work in the city but sooner or later it's got to change. Maybe I'll be old(er) and grey(er) than I am now when it happens but believing gold is a sure fire winner every time seems shortsighted. It's a market, and markets can... blah blah blah... go up as well as down.

Slasher
23rd Aug 2011, 14:20
And don't forget SILVER! I bought up another crapload last
June just after it dropped in mid May.

Anyway I diverge.... go over to the US HW thread and you'll
see what I'm on about Mr G.

G-CPTN
23rd Aug 2011, 14:24
The skill is knowing when to buy and when to sell.
When BP shares were at rock bottom last year I fancied a punt with some cash that was earning nothing in the bank.
Since then they have risen handsomely (though not to the previous heights) but have fallen recently to the sort of level that I would have paid.

My main reason for not buying was I couldn't decide which type of BP share was the one to buy . . .

SpringHeeledJack
23rd Aug 2011, 17:20
I think that as Slasher says it will depend on just how much of a mess those in powerful positions make in the next while. As things stand, the whole system is a busted flush and only survives due to sleight of hand. If things really unravel whereby people lose any and all confidence in paper money, well......then precious metals, land and anything that can be traded without complication will have a higher worth.

Apparently (who really knows), George Soros sold most of his paper gold certificates a few months ago and has purchased large tracts of farmland in Argentina :eek: I don't even think that gold is in a bubble yet, just going up due to massive purchases by various governments around the world in the last year and of course the stealth like devaluation of most of the major currencies. When the man in the street starts getting into it big time, then the graph is going to go up in a very steep curve.



SHJ

BrATCO
23rd Aug 2011, 23:45
It seems the bubbles are/were everywhere around gold.

Actually, SUGAR could be a good investment today. Chinese, Indians and other asians are beginning to eat more and more industrial food. If you look at the proportions of of sugar they put in it, sugar should gain shortly.

Mike X
23rd Aug 2011, 23:53
We all have to eat and when the sh1te hits the fan (just saying) ?

If the guy up the road has a stash of gold, but no food, and you have food, who's in the bargaining position ?

BrATCO
24th Aug 2011, 00:27
who's in the bargaining position ?
You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig... You dig... :cool:

911slf
24th Aug 2011, 20:22
You are all far too optimistic. I was told the story of a Russian peasant who recommended investing in matches and salt, on the basis that this had seen him through two world wars, a revolution, and Stalinism.

In case you think it is a tall story, read this.
Recalling recession: 10 years on from Russian crisis — RT (http://rt.com/news/recalling-recession-10-years-on-from-russian-crisis/)
para 4

Turnover was extremely high,” Evgeny recalls. “Those goods, which were not in demand for months, sold out in five days. The best selling products were matches and salt, followed by all kinds of tins."

911slf
24th Aug 2011, 20:29
If the world financial system fails completely, and you think you have invested in gold, how sure are you that the institution through which you invested will be able to deliver the material gold, should you require it?

Will said institution say 'come and get it if you think you are big enough?

vulcanised
24th Aug 2011, 21:39
Gold down over $100 today.

Slasher
25th Aug 2011, 04:45
Don't rush in yet - its not THE technical correction, just
hovering around the $1700 - $1800 mark as predicted.

Remember that the large majority of stock investors never
get rich. They'll impulsively throw themselves off a cliff like
lemmings as in this (http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1044322--price-of-gold-plunges-us-104-an-ounce) case.

The US and European economies are still mired neck-deep in
shit.

Track Coastal
25th Aug 2011, 14:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKel8B0uUIo

Track Coastal
25th Aug 2011, 15:06
Pic = 1000 words. The right hand tower in the last pic...

US debt visualized: Stacked in 100 dollar bills (http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/)

Lyman
26th Aug 2011, 02:27
Don't spend so much on GOLD that you are left without resources to defend it. It is best in little bits. Gold should never be sold, only spent.

tip cap to BandAide.

Track Coastal
26th Aug 2011, 03:29
BandAide and Lyman...wise words:D

Dow and AU since 1980.

1980-2011:

Dow (INDU): 875 (today 11,149), a gain of 8.55% per annum over 31 years.

GOLD: $704 (today $1765), a gain of 3.00% per annum over 31 years.

The first few years of the 1980s were characterised by high inflation globally (10%+).

In Australia inflation has averaged 4.4% pa over 31 years. Which is about right globally.

Based on 4.4% inflation, a fair price for GOLD from 1980 mega peak is $2674, call it bubbly then (maybe!).

Dow and Gold since 1980 chart:
Gold Prices (1980 - Present Monthly) - Charting Tools - StockCharts.com (http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/historical/djiagold1980.html)

I'll get bubble conscious when the Dow:Gold ratio is <2.0 (eg $2500Gold,5000DJIA). The current global overleveraged debt situation makes the 1930s look benign. Maybe even go 1:1?

http://www.theaureport.com/images/cooper.jpg

As BA said Gold is SHTF insurance anyway. Even at 1:1 you wouldn't liquidate all of it.

Slasher
26th Aug 2011, 03:31
If you're wise, you hold gold as protection, an insurance policy, not to make a killing in the market.

Exactly BA!