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Rossian
19th Aug 2011, 17:48
....what is it about children that seems to calm dogs down. Next door neighbours have a black and white collie, one year old. It was kicked out of obedience classes and is almost uncontrollable by them. With SWMBO and I he is a great "jumper" (he used to widdle with excitement which was a bit of a pain) and will "sit" for about 5millisecs. Our 9 year old grandaughter goes to see him and he sits quietly while she strokes him and then follows "doggedly" as she shows him over a low jump and then waits with a "what do you want me to do next" expression. Gets back into his cage when she tells him quietly (owners have to drag him in on his lead). Very strange.

A good mate has two rescue dogs which are virtually uncontrollable and when out for a long walk in a nearby forest are out of the car like Exocet missiles and appear intermittently to see where we are and rush off again. When his 4 year old grandson is there, the dogs are quiet, and when on the walk are out of the car and walk three paces behind the little lad all the way round for an hour or more. They allow him to be quite "rough" with them playing football in the garden and never hint at retaliating.

Why should this be?


The Ancient Mariner

flying lid
19th Aug 2011, 17:54
Those children described have empathy with the dogs. The dogs owners do not.

Empathy - a human value rapidly dissapearing from general members of society, and totally GONE from all business people.

I see similar with my twin girls & one neighbours pets.

Lid

corsair
19th Aug 2011, 18:37
My two year old developed a fear of dogs when one surprised him and licked his face. Which is a real pity. So if even the most gentle of puppies comes near him, he screams. But he still wants to like them if that's not a contradiction. The other day, we were walking when a small dog on lead appeared, he nearly fell over attempting to jump away. Yet he regained his composure and waved at the dog saying 'Hello Puppy'. We'll have to do something about his fear. I know of a little girl whose fear of dogs is so bad that she once fled into heavy traffic to get away from a dog. Terribly dangerous.


But his older brother does have an affinity for dogs as described. Which does leas to awkward situations and is a real nuisance when visiting dog owners. One kid cowering in the house the other out playing happily with the hound.

A A Gruntpuddock
19th Aug 2011, 18:56
My son's collie was very protective of our grandchildren, always following them and trying to usher them back indoors next to the adults. Kids loved it and would go outside just so they could be herded!

Lon More
19th Aug 2011, 18:59
Dogs know if they ignore the children for long enough they'll quieten down and eventually fall asleep. Then the feeding frenzy can begin:E

G-CPTN
19th Aug 2011, 19:14
Sadly, my eldest grandson has inherited a fear of dogs of all sizes from his father who was bitten when he 'made a face' at an Alsation when he was five years old.

Grandson cowers from even the smallest puppy, despite me showing that no harm comes to me when I approach the dog.

I don't think that there has been any incident, merely the learned response from his father!

My daughter has always been a dog cuddler and can communicate with them, however, she was bitten by her neighbour's dog (a Collie) which turned out to having a history of unprovoked 'sly' attacks on humans. It was banished to a farm soon afterwards.

BombayDuck
19th Aug 2011, 20:31
My neighbour's dog - I consider him mine from the amount of time he spent at our place too :) - was rescued a few months before their first child was born. Even as a pup he was impeccable in behaviour with the kids, never hyperactive around them (and completely mental around us). He taught the kids how to behave with him too - as infants they were allowed to do anything to him; pull his fur, play with his tail. As each kid got older, they would get warning growls if they crossed certain lines. Over time the kids learn what was allowed and what wasn't.

Fascinating.

Miss you, Snowy.

tony draper
19th Aug 2011, 20:41
Came to the conclusion a long time ago that compared to Dogs we walk the Earth with our eyes closed wearing ear muffs and our nosed blocked up,their knowledge of what is going on around them is beyond anything we can muster in terms of situation awareness,they weigh people up very quickly and are rarely wrong in the weighing up thereof.
Possibly as they are very Hierarchical critters,they see children being fussed over and apparently defered to ergo they think sprogs must have high status in the human pack and probably worth sucking up to.
They always know who is boss in any pack be they human of hound.
:)

pigboat
19th Aug 2011, 20:45
I had a good friend who used to own a Newfoundlander, a dog about the size of a pony. Sammy was a widower and his son and daughter in law lived with him. When their son was little, he'd be crawling around on the floor in his diaper and the dog would pick him up by the diaper, carry him around the room and deposit him at Sammy's feet. The dog would then plop down on her hindquarters and I swear to God she'd grin. :D

beaufort1
19th Aug 2011, 20:57
My two year old developed a fear of dogs when one surprised him and licked his face. Which is a real pity. So if even the most gentle of puppies comes near him, he screams. But he still wants to like them if that's not a contradiction. The other day, we were walking when a small dog on lead appeared, he nearly fell over attempting to jump away. Yet he regained his composure and waved at the dog saying 'Hello Puppy'. We'll have to do something about his fear. I know of a little girl whose fear of dogs is so bad that she once fled into heavy traffic to get away from a dog. Terribly dangerous.




corsair Something you might try is making contact with a local vets practice and ask them for details of PAT ( Pets as Therapy) they are not set up for this sort of thing but I would imagine they would be willing to help you.

Welcome to Pets As Therapy (http://www.petsastherapy.org/)

My wife takes one of our Newfoundlands into the local junior/infant school to show young children how to approach strange dogs. The pair of them have had great success over the years in getting youngsters to overcome their fear of dogs. I'm biased I know as I'm owned by two Newfoundlands, but they are fantastic with children, slow moving and very bear like which children find endearing. The dog knows or senses she has to be gentle around young children and lets them climb all over her, she enjoys it as much as the children.:)

con-pilot
19th Aug 2011, 21:00
The best animals I have ever seen around babies and little children was our wolf and our Great Pyrenees. Unbelievable interaction between them.

I can bore people for hours with stories about the wolf and Pyrenees interacting with young children.

vulcanised
19th Aug 2011, 22:51
Something that dogs and children have in common when playing up owners/parents is instant obedience when given the same instruction by a stranger.

I have done this several times and it rarely fails, in fact it's never failed with dogs who want to please their new best friend.

west lakes
20th Aug 2011, 00:32
Dogs can be quite clever, but can also react in interesting ways.
Talking to a friend on the phone earlier, who was near a dog that knows me well. Phone held near dog as I called it's name. dog licked phone!

G-CPTN
20th Aug 2011, 00:57
I'm very dog-friendly, and reckon that I am pretty smart WRT dog body language - ie I can tell when a strange dog doesn't want to know - or even wants to be left strictly alone.

A local shopkeeper has a well-trained chocolate labrador that used to greet me as a friend - until one day when I had been handling tarred garden twine, since when the dog won't come within thirty feet of me - more if she can manage!
She lowers herself and 'crawls' diverting behind parked vehicles and her fur 'bristles' - all signs that she definitely wants no contact with me (and I read it that she might become aggressive if 'cornered' by me - so I don't force the issue!

The owner tells me that there isn't anyone else that her dog has taken against (the dog often sits outside the shop being petted by strangers, however if she spots me approaching she goes inside, and has even started growling when we have to pass in the road outside my house as her owner returns to her parked car).

Rollingthunder
20th Aug 2011, 02:47
There is definately an affinity between children and cats and dogs and also most adults. Around here we occasionally get slushy snow and for dogs it can often build up between the pads of their paws and compacts into hard icy stuff causing great pain. Often their owners don't know about this. Can't number the amount of dogs i have cleaned paws for. Usually get a lick on the cheek.

ShyTorque
20th Aug 2011, 07:45
Dogs seem to like me. I like them too (we have rescued two). I've learned their very subtle body language (a glance of their eyes says so much) and can communicate well with ours.

A friend has a rescue lurcher that has taken such a shine to me that I sometimes have to hide when I spot her out walking it, because she will drag her owner right across the road to get to me. Her mother-in-law got a nasty shock one day when the dog saw me and pulled her out into traffic with no warning!

But cats... I tend to be allergic to them so never encourage them. However, I went to another pilot's house where they had a very timid little cat that had appeared on their doorstep. He warned me when it came into the house that it would probably run away because it was scared of everyone it didn't know. It spotted me sitting on the sofa and twenty seconds later it was curled up on my lap, purring loudly. He was amazed. I wasn't. :uhoh:

Loose rivets
20th Aug 2011, 10:15
A mate in Aus had a 4 year old daughter that regularly got taken for a walk by a lumbering old dog from across the road. He'd hold her wrist so gently there was nary a mark, let alone a bite.

In case you're wondering, worried parents did run after them, and the road had no traffic.

Tankertrashnav
20th Aug 2011, 10:47
I have a young German Shepherd. She is the softest, most good-natured of the four I have owned throughout my life, and has never shown the slightest trace of aggression to anyone, indeed we fear that should we ever be burgled she will probably accompany the burglars around trying to lick them.

BUT

She is a dog, and an immensely strong and powerful dog at that, equipped with an impressive array of teeth. I would NEVER leave her alone with a very young child. Dogs are animals, and ultimately they are unpredictable. How many times have you read of the previously good-natured pet suddenly turning on a child for no apparent reason and inflicting terrible injuries, or worse? I am all for kids being around dogs (all ours were brought up with them), but please use common sense and always be around when your dog is with very young children.

B Fraser
20th Aug 2011, 10:55
A certain Mod (you know who you are sir !) cured my kids fear of dogs. Well done and thank you. My kids are now chasing their grandfather's hunting dog round the forests and the poor bugger is hiding under logs. At least the racket is keeping the bears and wolves away.

Capetonian
20th Aug 2011, 10:59
Never Leave a Child with a Bull Terrier (http://www.masalatime.com/?p=936)

http://www.masalatime.com/img/84009.jpg

Radar66
20th Aug 2011, 11:24
A certain Mod (you know who you are sir !) cured my kids fear of dogs. Well done and thank you. My kids are now chasing their grandfather's hunting dog round the forests and the poor bugger is hiding under logs. At least the racket is keeping the bears and wolves away.

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Wodrick
20th Aug 2011, 11:30
Our Pointer likes children but can't eat a whole one ;)

parabellum
20th Aug 2011, 13:23
Never, ever, leave young children alone with a dog. The dogs tolerance is normally huge, especially in bitches, as illustrated many times over in this thread, but even the most patient of dogs can lose it if the pulling and tugging becomes too much, particularly if the dog has an ear or tooth ache etc. or is just feeling a bit 'rough'. We do, so why shouldn't they?

Dogs may also see newly arrived children as a threat to their 'rice bowl' or their source of affection, jealousy in other words. I have loved dogs all my life and owned them for most of it too, but even the most placid of us can blow our top sometimes and when dogs do it they don't give much warning.

radeng
20th Aug 2011, 13:25
There was a case in Oz a year or two back of a rescue German Shepherd who had been with the family for 4 days or so. Out in the garden, baby playing, dog suddenly grabs baby by nappie, throws it over its shoulder and then goes to attack the rather nasty snake (brown? tiger?)that was just about to bite baby. Killed the snake, but got bitten, and had to be rushed to the vet for anti snake bite serum

Um... lifting...
20th Aug 2011, 19:35
Family dog saves toddler from deadly snake | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490953/Family-dog-saves-toddler-deadly-snake.html)

This the boy? He's a dobie, but the story matches in all other respects.

radeng
21st Aug 2011, 10:51
Yes. I'm getting old and memory is going. I'd forgotten it was that long ago!

rmcb
21st Aug 2011, 11:58
Ears and (hopefully) tail intact - Dobermans are beautiful animals. Daft, but beautiful.

Would I trust one alone with a child? Dunno - but that doesn't apply in this case. Good tale, great picture!

Solid Rust Twotter
22nd Aug 2011, 10:09
My boy is half wolf and the gentlest person I know. We spend time at the brewery reading and having a pint quite often, and he seems to attract the attention of children who come over to stroke him or hug him. Even babies gravitate his way and will happily pull his mane and ears while he just laps up the attention. Their parents usually react in shock and rush over in a panic, but calm down and invariably end up taking photographs of their toddler with arms around Vulcan's neck and huge grin in place on both of them.

Nick Riviera
22nd Aug 2011, 13:27
When our eldest son was born we plonked him in his car seat in front of our soppy labrador and introduced him. Our soppy lad just seemed to sense that this was a very important little person who needed to be protected and instantly became his bodyguard, never leaving his side when we were out with the pram. We did the same with our next son and got the same response from the dog. He just seemed to instinctively understand that these were precious little people and acted accordingly around them, putting up with all sorts of things such as tail pulling etc. as the boys got bigger, it was lovely to watch.

Carry0nLuggage
22nd Aug 2011, 15:34
Dogs and children Take one young dog and two young boys, the quickest way to lay waste to a garden. I don't think our Mother has ever quite forgiven us for the devastation the three of us caused. :E

Tankertrashnav
22nd Aug 2011, 22:58
Ears and (hopefully) tail intact - Dobermans are beautiful animals. Daft, but beautiful.



Agreed. First undocked Doberman I saw was about 20 years ago and boy the difference that made - what a handsome beast. Thankfully the savage ear mutilation inflicted on the breed over the pond has always been pretty well unknown in this country. Why do people have to screw around with animals in the quest for some sort of fashion?

Nice to hear about the sundry soppy family pets on here, but I still maintain that the rule should be - don't leave very young children alone with your dog, no matter how gentle the dog has been.

MIDLGW
22nd Aug 2011, 23:39
I was bitten by three different dogs as a child - without encouraging the biting, I might add. This put a great fear of dogs in me. Then I met some new friends with dogs and learned that it very much depends on the owners how friendly and harmless a dog is. I now love (most) dogs, especially my neighbour's two little ones. I'm still wary of big dogs whose owners I don't know.

Round here, there are quite a few nasty dogs. Luckily (for dogwalkers) these dogs aren't out of their gardens often, although it's not for lack of trying. These are the type of dogs that you wouldn't last 30 seconds with. On the other hand, I feel sorry for them, as the owners obviously don't take much care and notice of their canine friends.

Dogs and children are in some ways quite similar. Love, discipline and positive attention can make them into wonderful beings. Lack of the three, and/or abuse of any kind will turn them into a nightmare.

Am picking up a post-op dog from the vet tomorrow. She'll get a sausage as a treat for being brave and also for surviving the op :)

Lon More
23rd Aug 2011, 01:22
Dogs and children are in some ways quite similar
What's the exchange rate, still one for one? :p


Glad ND's made it through the op OK>

ShyTorque
23rd Aug 2011, 01:34
We have two loveable rescue dogs who tolerate our even more loveable grandchild when she visits us.

I wouldn't ask them to be trusted to be left with her in their sole company, though. After all, they are all competitors for our attention and un-invited, she has been allowed to encroach on their patch.

We just need to be intelligent about this.

rh200
23rd Aug 2011, 03:52
Never, ever, leave young children alone with a dog. The dogs tolerance is normally huge, especially in bitches, as illustrated many times over in this thread, but even the most patient of dogs can lose it if the pulling and tugging becomes too much, particularly if the dog has an ear or tooth ache etc. or is just feeling a bit 'rough'. We do, so why shouldn't they?Well you could take the extreme view, but in reality some breeds are worse than others, and even in the most benign breed it could have an off day. Conversly is true for the breeds that are you may think never leave a child behind.

But there are millions of children and family dogs around, and yes a small percentage get nipped or savaged every now and then, bit like humans in fact your statement could be rewritten like this.

Never, ever, leave young children alone with a human. The humans tolerance is normally huge, especially in bitches, as illustrated many times over by parents putting up with tantrums etc, but even the most patient of humans can lose it if the pulling and tugging becomes too much, particularly if the human has an ear or tooth ache etc. or is just feeling a bit 'rough'. We do, so why shouldn't.

As evidence by the various cases of child abuse etc.

Rollingthunder
23rd Aug 2011, 16:38
Doggie treat. with a bit of something somewhat veggie. Treat for me.

http://www.dreamstime.com/aussie-meat-pie-and-sauce-largethumb2267071.jpg

on rear deck of Leyland at Bronte Beach

vulcanised
23rd Aug 2011, 18:05
At the end of my road live a large family with two JRs. The family are unlike any others in this road, with a hint of the diddicoy about them.

Anyway, the two dogs are never taken for walks but just occasionally escape from the front garden and wander up the road. They are as strange as their owners since, if I or anyone says hello to them one immediately heads for home at high speed while the other stands his ground for several minutes, making a peculiar moaning sound in protest at having been spoken to.

Eventually he will follow the other one, which is just as well since I wouldn't turn my back on him and walk away.

Lonewolf_50
23rd Aug 2011, 18:13
corsair: My son had a similar problem with dogs.

How to solve? Get him a puppy of a mid to small sized breed. Or mutt of mid to small sized dog. He starts out bigger than the puppy. They grow together.

Got a puppy when my son was four. The first few weeks, the puppy and he bonded as they were more or less two puppies in the yard that spring. As puppy grew, so did my son's confidence with dogs. Shortly thereafter, all dogs were to him less or threat. He still loves dogs.

(Good thing crazed pit bulls didn't roam our neighborhood, he might have tried to play with one ... :eek: )

Lon More
23rd Aug 2011, 18:32
I grew up with an Alsatian, she belonged to a friend of my parents and was constantly with us. We could do what we liked with her, but God help any straanger who approached us too closely.

I blame the breeders and the Kennel Clubs, dogs like her are hard to find these days.
There's a "Police Dog Club" here in the village. No idea what they do except make the dogs bark constantly. I went for a walk past it one day and was advised not to stand and watch, because it, "antagonises the dogs" I wouldn't turn my back on one if I could help it and if I saw one whilst carrying a shotgun I'd give it both barrels just to be on the safe side. Our local shepherd dd that a couple of weeks ago after some of his lambs had been savaged.

airborne_artist
23rd Aug 2011, 18:46
My Doberman adores all children, despite our youngest being 12 when he came to us aged nine months. He's as soft as butter, but has a bark that carries across several streets. I'd leave him with a child quite happily, but I'd think about leaving the Border Terrorist alone with one.

My Mum bred Great Danes. Her first bitch came as I was about two months old. She let out a low rumble once, when I put a pencil down her ear. I was about two.

Kaiser:


http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll180/airborne_artist/kaiser.jpg

parabellum
23rd Aug 2011, 23:20
Vulcanised - Maybe they have been taught to respond only to diddicoy talk!?:)

Not certain about this but I think it was the Romans who taught the Neapolitan Mastiff to respond ferociously to the usual friendly human-to-dog talk and to react in a friendly way when shouted at. The Romans then used the dogs to guard their cities at night against the marauding hordes from the North who might try to sweet talk the dogs into submission.

Mike X
23rd Aug 2011, 23:24
airborne_artist

Kaiser's sharper than you think. He spotted a dirty lens !

notmyC150v2
23rd Aug 2011, 23:43
Parabellum,

Not sure of the accuracy of that one. I do know that dogs were considered unclean animals in the times of the Roman Republic and were forbidden near religious events. They were cursed after they failed to alert the guards when Rome was attacked at some point in antiquity. It was the Geese who saved the day by waking up the guards and therefore Geese were ever after revered.

Romans were a strange bunch...

radeng
24th Aug 2011, 10:02
friend from Padua responded to that 'What do you mean, were?'

Rossian
24th Aug 2011, 12:27
...our neighbours had two Neapolitan mastiffs who patrolled their garden and driveway after dark. Although I knew they were there and couldn't get out; every time I walked past their house coming home late at night I could hear the click of their claws on the concrete followed by this guttural, basso profundo growl followed by a snarl as I passed the gate. Without fail the hairs on the back of my neck would rise to startling heights as I scurried past. I think it must be a very deep folk memory of sounds like that which conjures up images of something big, hairy, with lots of sharp pointy teeth which tell you "RUN AWAY QUICK!!!"

The Ancient Mariner

11Fan
24th Aug 2011, 16:45
sounds like that which conjures up images of something big, hairy, with lots of sharp pointy teeth followed by the sound of the gate being opened clumsily.... :eek:

DX Wombat
24th Aug 2011, 16:58
Bitches are very protective when it comes to their puppies and the others in the pack are well aware of this so, although they may well take part in the puppies' education, they always have an eye open for mum in case she objects. One squeal from a puppy will usually bring mum running. No sensible dog wishes to be on the wrong end of a thumping from an irate mum. It would seem logical then that they regard babies as a different type of puppy so take whatever action necessary to avoid being beaten up.

ChristiaanJ
24th Aug 2011, 17:29
Bitches are very protective when it comes to their puppies.You telling me?
Years ago... went to pick up a car from the local garage. Walked into the workshop to find the boss.... and I did.... next thing I knew was having a German Shephard hanging from my leg... I still have the scar.
Turned out the "lady" had puppies, and somehow I got inside her 'safety perimeter''.

CJ

vulcanised
24th Aug 2011, 17:58
Dogs and cars are something else.

Had some work done on my car a few years ago. Chap delivered it back and left his spaniel sitting in the open hatchback. The dog had always greeted me at his place but he wasn't about to let me anywhere near 'his' car.

ColliedogWizard
25th Aug 2011, 01:06
Got to be carefull with dogs & sprogs. Our dog was really good with kids when he was a pup - until he was 2 or 3 yrs old. I've seen him lick a kiddies face as he walked past, much to the kids surprise & joy! He would play with them till the cows came home.

However as he has got older, he is less tolerant of them, hates being followed about & touched. I can see in his body language that he is unhappy, so a call or gesture to heel with a firm grip on collar or lead works if the child is persistent. He now gives a wide berth when children are about & though he does need watching, there have been no problems so far. I certainly would not leave him alone with children.

DX Wombat
25th Aug 2011, 11:16
ColliedogWizard, I agree. No dog, no matter how good with children, should ever be left alone with them. Bryn has always been brilliant with them, sitting quietly whilst they stroked him, from as young as 16 weeks when he was very bouncy, even so I wouldn't leave him alone it wouldn't be fair to him or the child.