Virgin jobs for Qantas "rejects"

[spelling_nazi]

Secret union talks reveal Virgin preparing to hire Qantas rejects


Read more: Secret union talks reveal Virgin preparing to hire Qantas rejects | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/secret-union-talks-reveal-virgin-preparing-to-hire-qantas-rejects/story-e6frfq80-1226117706071#ixzz1VOQXqPVT)

:cool:

[Sunfish]

The headline demonstrates that News Limited is firmly in Qantas's pocket.

[ejectx3]

Guess who wrote the title?...our old mate.... EXCLUSIVE by Joe Hildebrand

Virgin Australia to hire Qantas rejects | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/virgin-australia-to-hire-qantas-rejects/story-e6freuzr-1226117744862)

[hotnhigh]

Bravo virgin, bravo.
Virgin eyes staff Qantas plans to sack | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/virgin-comes-to-the-rescue-of-workers/story-fn7x8me2-1226117752875)
DO you have any idea Alan how sad this is becoming?

[Budfox]

So Qantas spend millions of dollars and years training up staff and then just gift them to their opposition LOL :D
Cant recall exactly but wasnt Qantas sprouting off how it cost on average 1 million of training each pilot or something around that figure ?
Go figure, happy to spend $$$ to then give those assets away bravo :ugh:

[TBM-Legend]

soon Virgin will become Australia's overstaffed airline. With a share price as low as it is they'd better start making money instead of headlines....

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hey all,

I wanted to do a notice to our members but really, what I wanted to pass on is of interest to all Aviation staff. On Wednesday, AIPA joined a federation of Aviation unions. It is the Aviation Unions Federation (AUF) and now has ALAEA, TWU, FAAA (shorthaul) and AIPA.

When we met in Canberra we had a signing ceremony that was attended by John Borghetti and Richard Tanner from Virgin Australia. They expressed deep disappointement at the Qantas move to Asia and offered to assist in any way they can to employ any valuable employee displaced by the other mob.

Not sure what it means specifically for pilots but it is great for LAMEs. They have informed us that an expanding fleet and the opening of the new hanger in Syd will see many genuine opportunites both now and down the track. It's good to see one Australian airline do all they can to offer employment to Aussies.

cheers
Steve

[King William III]

From News.com article….
A Qantas spokesman last night said: "This is a very difficult time for many Qantas employees and we hope this is a genuine offer rather than a ... PR stunt.
"Qantas will continue to be one of the biggest employers of Australians with more than 30,000 people.
"Virgin does all of its heavy aircraft maintenance overseas and has also offshored its call centres. Qantas pilots and cabin crew are also paid significantly more than their Virgin counterparts."


OH, so NOW Qantas care about their employees?? WTF ???

Seriously though, this is awesome even if nothing comes of it….it's the first time Q have been really put on the back foot over this…lets hope JB keeps putting the boot in to the Leprechaun. I get the feeling he's been waiting for this ( let's face it, he knows their game plan) to have some real fun against this mob!!

[airsupport]

Good news, maybe Virgin Australia will become the Spirit of Australia. :ok:

Certainly a name that no longer suits Qantas. :(

[ohallen]

Well that has to absolutely take the cake...Qantas suggesting DJ may be involved in a PR stunt........these complete idiots have NO SHAME.

[packrat]

Borghetti =Integrity
Hildebrand....you are a repugnant prique !!!!!:mad::mad:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

The offer of employment by Virgin is absolutely genuine. Look at all the ex Ansett people working there now and they are bringing maintenance back to Australia.

[airsupport]

Steve,

Any hope that Virgin will then have a higher percentage of LAME preflights?

With the way Qantas are going and their plan to have LAMEless tarmacs, I may have to start using Virgin instead of Qantas.

Sure many others would too.

[Jackbr]

For those like me hoping to enter the aviation industry in coming years, it really is nice to see how Virgin Australia is going about their business. Good on Borghetti. Qantas's HUGE loss.

[unionist1974]

ALAEA FED SEc , so you are in the pocket of Virgin , how much maintennance do they do in AUS , let me think Engine Shop , No Component Shop , No .Heavy Maintennance , No . But you line up with these guys to score points against the Company that employs the vast majority of your members , who in turn pay your generous T&Cs . Explain that will you ? An opportunist you have always been and will remain . But never a real Unionist

[sweetpollypurebred]

Tanner???:hmm:

[Ngineer]

Secret union talks reveal Virgin preparing to hire Qantas rejects

Does that offer include management or members of the board?

[7378FE]

Probably, cheaper that way.

eg :
1...QF identifies people to be let go.
2...Redundancy payment of say, $200,000 to each affected person, QF would have to pay.
3...QF gives VA $100,000 cash per person to take said people.
4...VA offers $50,000 cash per person to said people as a incentive to jump ship from VA to QF.

Both VA & QF win, not sure about the employee, would you rather a $200,000 payout and no job or $50,000 cash in hand PLUS a job?

[Ngineer]

Good on Virgin for coming to the rescue, however this does little to address our main concern which is the direction of air safety in Australia.

Concerns regarding maint outsourcing, LAME-less workplaces, LAME's on demand, type-A certifiers and the potential safety implications still remain.

[airdualbleedfault]

Both VA & QF win, not sure about the employee, would you rather a $200,000 payout and no job or $50,000 cash in hand PLUS a job?

Actually, I would rather the :mad:s that are making me redundant after x number of decades pay me my full redundancy and then if another airline need people, as VB obviously do, I am employed on my merits.
I'm sorry but I don't see why part of my redundancy package should be paid to an airline that needs me anyway ?

[Jethro Gibbs]

The offer of employment by Virgin is absolutely genuine.

Really is it in writing ? Lets remember the guy running the show is ex Qantas if its not in written up in a legal document I don,t believe it.:=

[Mr.Buzzy]

You just failed stage one Jethro.
Your "bashed by the man" attitude is noted and you are invited to re-apply in 12 months.

Bbbbzbznzznznnzz

[Normasars]

TBM said

soon Virgin will become Australia's overstaffed airline. With a share price as low as it is they'd better start making money instead of headlines

I totally agree. They haven't turned a profit for 3 or 4 years. Airlines don't run on fresh air.


Jethro, exactly my point on a previous post. JB is NOT there to be everyones' best mate. He was complicit in setting up Jet Connect and one of Dixon's toe cutters.

For me the jury is still out on him.

It's all great to be window dressing and throwing all this cash around on superficial stuff like uniforms/lounges/paint jobs etc etc but if the business doesn't start to make some cash, well lets just watch how this too plays out.

[Mr.Buzzy]

With respect Norma.
The VA jury deliberated for about 2 weeks then found the defendant not guilty. In fact, the guy has "passed go and collected his 200"

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[BP2197]

Not sure that worshipping a competitor that employs the same tactics as what we are opposed to (LAMEless tarmacs) and does the majority of its heavy maintenance overseas is an entirely consistant ideology.

John Borgetti, can you please outline your plans for heavy maintenace of A330 and 777?

[Jethro Gibbs]

Mr Buzzy at this point in time you have nothing real from Virgin its as simple as that.unless you apply for 1 of the very few positions they have advertised as vacant.

[Bootstrap1]

For all the bashers of the LAMEless tarmac, Cat A licences and ramp staff doing the arrival/departures, just remember Virgin already have a near LAMEless tarmac and have had for years.
The ramp staff already do the arrival/departure routines.
Cat A licences will be in Virgin before QF.
All the 330 work is done by JHAS.
Most of the maintenance work is done on night shift.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a great thing that JB has put his hand up to help those who might find themselves in need of a job (just as QF did in 2001 when Ansett went under). But it would also be a little hypocritical for those fighting against what QF wants to bring in to just walk into Virgin and accept it without saying a word.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Very true Jethro, may be a time to be thinking "glass half full" though....:ok:
just my humble 2c

bbbbbbzzzzzzz

[Octane]

My brother and his mates were flying 146's to Tassie with Southern. When that came to an end, none of them had the 'right stuff' to get a job with mainline.

So these guys were good enough to be trusted flying the public in 146's but apparently not good enough to fly the public in 737's. How the hell does that work?

After 7 years he'd had enough, threw it in and went to Virgin. Now a 737 Captain. He's happy there...

The big Q has been treating its staff like ****e for years, I suspect Virgin already has many Qantas 'rejects' flying their aircraft. Go Virgin...

Cheers

Octane

[VBPCGUY]

Not sure that worshipping a competitor that employs the same tactics as what we are opposed to (LAMEless tarmacs) and does the majority of its heavy maintenance overseas is an entirely consistant ideology.

Umm thats garbage if a pilot requests a LAME he gets one.

[happy clapper]

Hi Steve,
I hope any of the QF Lames who find themselves out of work can get a spot with Virgin,just remind them that we don't want to hear "At QF we did it this way":ugh: Virgin is a company whose managers listen down to the mailroom employee,It's different to QF and a great place to work,we don't need disgrunted ex QF dead wood,just the good ones.
Oh and QF can keep there Sc**S

[gtseraf]

this would seem to be a bit unfair on those who are outside of QF and had applications in before this. Surely they should be given first bite, after all the QF guys have had their opportunity to move and decided to stay at QF till now.

[Howard Hughes]

Lets remember the guy running the show is ex Qantas if its not in written up in a legal document I don,t believe it.Remember JB is 'Old school' Qantas (the way we remember it), not 'NEW' (I'm only concerned about bonuses, not passengers) Qantas.

I have a lot of respect for JB, at least he is a true airline man!:ok:

[Dragun]

Virgin hasn't specified which aspect of the business they'd take from have they? From memory it said "all" employees which would be quite difficult.

I can't really see them inviting a whole bunch of SOs to skip the queue for interviews, given that there would be an extensive application backlog of very experienced regional, freight and corporate crew, possibly in addition to all kinds of overseas applicants looking to come home.

Not withstanding the difference in how the P3 time would be viewed in comparison to those with actual FO or command time, there are a lot of people out there stinging for an interview at VA. If it happened, it would definitely stir the proverbial pot. Will be interesting to see what happens!

Good luck to all at QF, really hoping it all works out for you.

[Poto]

Qf did the exact same thing when Ansett went tits up. They gave preference to ex Ansett pilots including the S/O's

[Oldmate]

Will they give the Irish guy a job after the next AGM?

[forgetabowdit]

Will they give the Irish guy a job after the next AGM?


I can think of a few good jobs that we could offer to Mr Joyce...

[DirectAnywhere]

Steve, without wishing to cause an argument, where does the AFAP sit with respect to the AUF?

I WANT to see them on board too. Without them, management will continue to play the various groups off.

AFAP and AIPA - now is the time to get your s$&t together. If you don't we are all, collectively, rooted.

[John Citizen]

I don't think you can 'jump the que'

It is very well known that many jumped the que when it was "the boys club" (blue star system).

Experienced multi -crew jet/turbine pilots/captains couldn't get an interview whilst GA piston pilots/GA instructors got the job. Where's the merit in that ? :confused:

[Captain Gidday]

There have been a few mentions of 'Redundancy Payouts' in this and other threads so far. I want to make it very clear that those talking about Voluntary Redundancy and numbers like $200,000 are talking about Cabin Crew and Engineers.
There is no offer of Voluntary Redundancy to any pilot and I think it might be a long time coming. Here's my take on the situation at the moment, as an interested bystander.
Emirates - Pilots accepted by Emirates resign from Qantas, or retire if they have more than 20 years service. Their 'entitlements' would be payment in lieu of any outstanding Annual Leave or Long Service Leave and they can transfer their superannuation out of the Qantas plan, like any worker could. No special provisions. No payout.
Qatar - Pilots accepted by Qatar take 3 years leave of absence. Their leave balances remain behind in Qantas. No payout at all. There is an expectation that they'll be coming back, but I think it would be safer view it as a one way ticket, given the scale of what is happening. After 3 years, if they find it is in their best interests to remain at Qatar, or somewhere else by then, they then would resign [or retire if eligible] from Qantas and be paid out their leave balances. No redundancy payouts.
Virgin Australia - Well, if the above is any guide, once again QF pilots would have to resign or retire to go to Virgin Australia. Once again, the only payment would be their leave balances.
It is understandable, given the comments here about redundancy payments made by and about other categories of workers, that you would express envy about QF pilots coming into VB, or anywhere else, instead of other well qualified applicants if you thought they had just received a large redundancy payout. Now that you know the true situation, I hope you will see that they are just pilots on equal terms who are deciding on a career change.
Inside Flight Ops at Qantas, the current mantra is 'we hope to avoid compulsory redundancies'. This is really just code for 'we hope to frighten, cajole or persuade enough of you to leave of your own accord, so that we are spared the expense of paying you a redundancy payout'.
In Flight Ops, they are very big on sticks and very short on carrots.

[BP2197]

Quote:
Not sure that worshipping a competitor that employs the same tactics as what we are opposed to (LAMEless tarmacs) and does the majority of its heavy maintenance overseas is an entirely consistant ideology.
Umm thats garbage if a pilot requests a LAME he gets one.

Not sure what you are on about as that is the same under the QF procedure. A pilot will never be restricted from seeking advice from a LAME if required under any airline.

[DutchRoll]

Once again, the only payment would be their leave balances.
For the majority of QF pilots not approaching retirement age that balance is approximately zero now (or rapidly heading that way), due to compulsory annual leave and LSL assignments over the past year or two.

So I'd think most QF pilots, if they resign to go elsewhere, will be taking not much more than the spare change they have in their wallet with them.

[Bootstrap1]

Maybe remove LAMEless tarmac and replace it with LAME on demand. That is the way Virgin have operated for years and it is what QF want.

It doesn't change the fact that it would be hypocritical to be fighting against this while being employed at QF, and then welcome it with open arms if you moved to Virgin.

It is also correct that Virgin will have to deal with the egos and attitudes of the "at QANTAS we did it this way" brigade, the same people who fear change and have never worked outside of Qantas.

[qf 1]

I don't agree captain gidday,Qantas have no ability to make you take a job at another airline full stop,no transfers no leave without pay.They have made it clear that they intend to make these positions redundant.That means a payout on their part,they will not and cannot get out of their redundancy previsions .AFTER ALL WE DO NOT LIVE IN THE U.S.S.R.,not yet anyway.

[Dragun]

I think you'll find the QF long award says that if a pilot is made redundant they must either be given 6 months notice or paid out 6 months. The 6 months would therefore constitute the minimum notice required. If they have more than 5 years service then I'm pretty sure there's a clause that says AIPA is entitled to negotiate the payout.

It's a specific award and is much better than the minimum payment required by the Fair Work Act 2009. Read Division 11 here (http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/legislation/fw_act/FW_Act-01.htm#P2276_214780)

Basically, they're getting either 6 months notice, or a payout.

[Captain Gidday]

QF1. You are correct that Qantas cannot compel a pilot to go elsewhere, without paying a redundancy payment. However, I stand by my earlier assertion that no redundancy payments are presently being offered to pilots. By various means, as I've already elaborated, pilots are currently being encouraged to jump ship before they have to be pushed.
If you think that is living in the USSR, then welcome to Vladivostok!
Certainly, the pilots could all band together and do the reverse of 1989 and every single pilot could refuse to resign or retire or take 'leave of absence' to take up positions at Emirates, Qatar or Virgin Australia, and also not apply to take 'opportunities' in the Jetstar Group. Now, that would be AJ and BB's worst nightmare. And if you thought Leigh got apoplectic about the repeal of Workchoices, just imagine..... :eek:

[Tankengine]

That is my plan.:E