PDA

View Full Version : Paul Krugman: Fake-Alien Invasion Would End Economic Slump (You Can't Make This Up!)


Jane-DoH
15th Aug 2011, 20:40
Paul Krugman: Fake Alien Invasion Would End Economic Slump (VIDEO) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/paul-krugman-fake-alien-invasion_n_926995.html)

Cacophonix
15th Aug 2011, 20:48
Jane

I say this with a smile. You know Krugman may just have a small point here!

So saying I must warn you that I am so depressed by the UK riot thread that I am drinking a second glass of white wine so my comment should be judged accordingly. ;)

Hmm, mind you anybody who quotes Rand (even in jest) is suspect!

First of all, yes, I have read various MMT manifestos — this one is fairly clear as they go. I do dislike the style — the claims that fundamental principles of logic lead to a worldview that only fools would fail to understand has a sort of eerie resemblance to John Galt’s speech in Atlas Shrugged — but that shouldn’t matter.

Economics and Politics by Paul Krugman - The Conscience of a Liberal - NYTimes.com (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/)

Caco

cavortingcheetah
15th Aug 2011, 20:51
The man is Russian in origin. (Jewish too, but you're not really allowed to talk about unfair advantage and privilege these days.)
He went to Yale.
He is a self confessed liberal and social democrat.
He teaches at Princeton.
And for the benefit of your British readers, he thinks Gordon Brown is wonderful.
Other than that, he seems highly intelligent, literate and amusing.

Jane-DoH
15th Aug 2011, 20:52
Cacophonix

Still, the means of deceiving the whole world into believing we are under imminent danger of attack in order to bulk up military spending in order to revive our economy is unconscionable.

Plus the ability to pull off a deception of that magnitude would lead to all sorts of abuses.

Cacophonix
15th Aug 2011, 20:56
He is a self confessed liberal and social democrat.
He teaches at Princeton.

Both points endear me to him... but the Brown thing is hard to bear!

I guess as an intelligent Jewish liberal the last thing he will need to be doing is going to confession though Cavorting...

Caco

Cacophonix
15th Aug 2011, 20:58
Still, the means of deceiving the whole world into believing we are under imminent danger of attack in order to bulk up military spending in order to revive our economy is unconscionable.

I thought that was more the style of a Neocon.

I suspect that Mr Krugman's piece was more in the style of Swift's 'A Modest Proposal' Jane but, hell, who knows eh?

Caco

BombayDuck
15th Aug 2011, 21:05
he thinks Gordon Brown is wonderful

Gordon Brown's response to the recession, maybe, but otherwise... :confused:

Lyman
15th Aug 2011, 21:20
Why the emphasis on FAKE?

Another solution would be to do what will have to be done in any event, sooner or later.

BoA is insolvent, it was so within six months of the repeal of Glass Stiegal.

Take it to receivership, fire the crooks at the end of the trough, discharge all the bogus "debt", and reaffirm the purpose of Banks in general.

So long as the Assets are respected, the Depositors will be leaking their wealth into the bank accounts of the "Investors".

Not Dollar one of TARP went into CREDIT, as made mandatory by Congress. neither did any bailout money go to those protected by FDIC, another insolvent concern.

Without consequences, crooks will stay at the tap til arrested, it was ever so.

No Harm, No Foul? Excuse me?

"Only on the LEFT, where education is prized above Intelligence."

stuckgear
15th Aug 2011, 21:39
agree on why a fake alien invasion..

we need some damn fool to sell a load of worthless paper to.

con-pilot
15th Aug 2011, 21:57
Of course, Krugman is just using a space invasion as an example. But that hasn't stopped some people from framing his comments as part of a giant conspiracy by a shadowy group of elites to enslave the world through a fake alien attack.




Uh, Jane, that you? :p

Cacophonix
15th Aug 2011, 22:05
some people from framing his comments as part of a giant conspiracy by a shadowy group of elites to enslave the world

Con, come on now, you know some folks with hay in their hair and Chiclets in their mouths have been anally probed by these damned aliens! They will stop at nothing! ;)

Caco

Smile Jane we are teasing - As I suggested Mr Krugman was using the Swiftean approach! Are you sure you don't work for the NY Times? Am enjoying the paper seeing as you have been so kind as to post this link! ;)

con-pilot
15th Aug 2011, 22:34
Con, come on now, you know some folks with hay in their hair and Chiclets in their mouths have been anally probed by these damned aliens! They will stop at nothing!

Well, don't tell anybody else about this, but the reason we do that, just get them folks with hay in their hair, sometimes our abductions don't exactly go as planned.

And it is a bit embarrassing you know and then all the other aliens make fun of us when it is shown on the interplanetary web.

So we don't like having a bunch of witnesses hanging around sober, if you get what I mean.

Oh, one more point, what is all this fuss about probing? I rather enjoy it. :p

Cacophonix
15th Aug 2011, 22:39
And it is a bit embarrassing you know and then all the other aliens make fun of us when it is shown on the interplanetary web.

So we don't like having a bunch of witnesses hanging around sober, if you get what I mean.

Heaven forfend!

galaxy flyer
15th Aug 2011, 23:02
Probably Krugman's most lucid thought in some time. A good economist turned into a left wing hack. Between the EU's and the USA's governmental economic outlooks, it should be blindingly obvious to the most casual observer that social welfare economies are a deadend and headed for the ash heap of history as was the Soviet Union.

GF

BombayDuck
16th Aug 2011, 00:12
Ah, so the EU's problems have nothing to do with being trapped in a single currency with having no way to devalue their way out of the mess! This is of course a failure of socialists! Thank you, galaxy flyer, for opening my eyes! :D

Jane-DoH
16th Aug 2011, 00:26
Cacophonix

Both points endear me to him... but the Brown thing is hard to bear!

Just because a person's a liberal doesn't mean they're a good person...

I thought that was more the style of a Neocon.

It is, but most Neocons are unconscionable, now aren't they :}


con-pilot

But that hasn't stopped some people from framing his comments as part of a giant conspiracy by a shadowy group of elites to enslave the world through a fake alien attack.

Uh, Jane, that you? :p

I didn't say that specifically, I was more interested in the sheer ridiculousness of Krugman's claim. Regardless, it is established doctrine to exploit any crisis, or create one should none present themselves.

rh200
16th Aug 2011, 00:27
I'm with you Jane, I think this is just a tip of the Iceburg, its the start of trying to impose world government on us. This will lead to all kinds of excuses to take away our rights and bring in more censorship and a tolatarian society.;)

rh200
16th Aug 2011, 00:30
I didn't say that specifically, I was more interested in the sheer ridiculousness of Krugman's claim. Regardless, it is established doctrine to exploit any crisis, or create one should none present themselves.

Opps, something half serious, sorry, standard political strategy, "never let a crisis go to waste". They would be even more incompetent than they are if they did.

galaxy flyer
16th Aug 2011, 00:39
BD

The problem isn't getting OUT of the "mess", it's how to NOT get into it in the first place. All social welfare programs and the associated politics that go with it eventually turn citizens into wards of the state who vote themselves "other people's money". Surely, the rioters last week didn't lack for state-provided benefits, but that didn't make them, in the least, grateful for the taxpayer's work providing those benefits.

Besides, the ENTIRE EU cannot devalue itself out of its mess and, if Greece went off the Euro, it could not possibly devalue itself to solvency.

GF

sisemen
16th Aug 2011, 02:53
So, let me get this right....

If a country is in recession and facing financial difficulties they need to cut back and the first one in the queue is defence spending.

But if you are really in recession then the way to stimulate the economy is to increase defence spending.

Madness.

Dog is a man's best friend and every silver lining has a cloud - E Gruntfuttock

Matari
16th Aug 2011, 04:22
siseman, if you think that is madness, our Federal government subsidies farmers to grow corn, which makes corn syrup an attractive alternate to sugar (also subsidized) in food production, but alas, the Federal government now wants to tax corn syrup to discourage consumption.

And people think the Tea Partiers are crazy.

Lyman
16th Aug 2011, 05:06
The FED also subsidizes NOT growing corn for food, but does subsidize its cultivation as a Fuel. Corn, by any other name would burn so sweet?

chksix
16th Aug 2011, 08:15
JaneDoh:

Still, the means of deceiving the whole world into believing we are under imminent danger of attack in order to bulk up military spending in order to revive our economy is unconscionable.

Plus the ability to pull off a deception of that magnitude would lead to all sorts of abuses.

I just had a Deja Vu experience! :ooh: :E

Slasher
16th Aug 2011, 09:29
I've often thought these past six months the world needs a
war or two -

Germany needs to invade Greece (again)

Italy needs to invade Portugal, which itself needs to invade
France

France needs to invade Ireland

China needs to invade the US.


Damn the bloody UN! :*

BombayDuck
16th Aug 2011, 10:25
If a country is in recession and facing financial difficulties they need to cut back and the first one in the queue is defence spending.

But if you are really in recession then the way to stimulate the economy is to increase defence spending.


No, the theory states that the way to stimulate the economy is to make things - anything. If your "defence" spending involves maintaining troops in foreign countries - feeding them, supplying them, repairing their equipment, patrolling neighbourhoods and such while using only a fraction of your stockpile to occasionally blow up stuff, that doesn't help your economy. On the other hand, a war effort involves building things - aircraft, ships, submarines, training centres, runways, docks, tanks... it gets people employed and gives them money to spend and the flow of this money stimulates the economy.

The End of the Great Depression (http://www.nber.org/digest/feb11/w16380.html)

In February 1941 fully one percent of the American labor force was at work building army training camps for 1.4 million new draftees. Employment in ship-building to expand the U. S. Navy and to supply Lend-Lease aid to Britain accounted for another one percent of the labor force in 1941.

Two percent of the workforce in just two fields?! Incredible.

Lyman
16th Aug 2011, 10:52
February 1941 ? Hmmm. Aloha.

rh200
16th Aug 2011, 13:42
I've often thought these past six months the world needs a
war or two -

Hay slash what about us don't we get invaded, feeling a bit left out.

corsair
16th Aug 2011, 14:11
France needs to invade IrelandAww, if only they had, actually they did once in 1798, quite successfully for a time. Think about it, we Irish would be arrogant, smoke Gauloises, drink a lot of wine, enjoy fine cuisine and dress a lot better. No we got the English:ugh: Beer, fish and chips and tracksuits. Oh well:hmm:

Not only that the French army it's ranks stiffened by hard fighting Irishmen would be the best in the world.

We can only dream.


But back to the point, clearly Krugman is right. What is needed is a common desire or motivation in order to get the world's economies back on track. It's not a right wing, left wing issue or it shouldn't be. WW2 was the making of the USA economically. It won't happen of course, short of a actual threatened alien invasion. But some way needs to found to avoid this boom bust cycle.

However you don't have to look far to see countries using a perceived outside threat in order to justify almost anything, repression, defence spending, loss of freedom. Even the USA, which used/uses the fear of Communism to justify certain actions. Until recently anti Israeli/American/Western rhetoric was used to keep the Arab nations compliant in their oppression by their own leaders. Iran's tyrants get themselve re-elected again and again on that platform.
North Korea being another example.
There's nothing new in it.

MagnusP
16th Aug 2011, 14:12
On the plus side, corsair, you did get the English market in Cork. Fabby place.

corsair
16th Aug 2011, 14:15
Hay slash what about us don't we get invaded, feeling a bit left out. No mate you do the invading, you've surely seen the video:

RenRILqwhJs

sisemen
16th Aug 2011, 15:13
However you don't have to look far to see countries using a perceived outside threat in order to justify almost anything

The sky is falling in, the world will come to an end. I'm therefore going to slug you with a $70 billion carbon tax even though I swore blind the day before I was elected that I wouldn't ever, ever do such a thing. Juliar Gillard

KMVc0IbtyAQ

stuckgear
16th Aug 2011, 15:24
come on now, you know some folks with hay in their hair and Chiclets in their mouths have been anally probed by these damned aliens!


you sure its not slasher ?:E

stuckgear
16th Aug 2011, 15:26
the means of deceiving the whole world into believing we are under imminent danger of attack in order to bulk up military spending in order to revive our economy is unconscionable.




what you mean like during the cold war ?

manufacturing and R&D were great in them days...

corsair
16th Aug 2011, 15:50
On the plus side, corsair, you did get the English market in Cork. Fabby place.Apart from that, 'What did the English ever do for us?:p



At risk of ending this thread prematurely by mentioning the 'H' word, even a certain leader of a certain country in the 1930s used the external threat to unite the people. Look how that went, disastrous war, country brought to it's knees etc...............oh but wait who is economic powerhouse of Europe right now? Then there's the Japanese, they were actually nuked and now well.........

Ok that's it, we need a war. It seems to me the Poles are getting above themselves again plus they have German territory which they took after the war. If I was German I would be getting annoyed right now. Then there's those pesky Czechs. Some wrongs need to be righted!

It's war!

OFSO
16th Aug 2011, 16:53
why a fake alien invasion

Remove your tinfoil hats, guys and look up at the sky...see anything ? constellation of Orion ? getting larger and larger ? Right.

SirPeterHardingsLovechild
16th Aug 2011, 17:58
Been done before, by my Grandfather. In 1948. Available in reprint.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41JxbTTWo%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Newman’s book The Flying Saucer is a tale of how a group of scientists, taking on the mantle of world peace-makers, stage a series of crashes of ‘Flying Saucers’ with the aim of uniting the world’s leaders. The idea that saucer crashes themselves have been staged or that stories have been deliberately manufactured as part of a Military ‘Disinformation’ campaign is one that has been around at least as long as the modern saucer retrievals stories have been current. The theme of an alien threat leading to world peace and unity is one that has cropped up on many occasions, a recent example being the often-quoted remark of Reagan to Gorbachev in 1985.

Newman’s inspiration was a speech by Sir Anthony Eden, who in 1947 said: “It seems to be an unfortunate fact that the nations of the world were only really united when they were facing a common menace. What we really needed was an attack from Mars 85″

Jane-DoH
17th Aug 2011, 03:41
SirPeterHardingsLovechild

So you're saying that there were people who wanted to stage alien invasions to create the illusion of such a massive menace that it would require all the leaders of the world to join?

Matari
17th Aug 2011, 04:13
Jane, it's a fiction book.

11Fan
17th Aug 2011, 04:26
There's a difference? :hmm:

rh200
17th Aug 2011, 05:31
No mate you do the invading

Hmmm. forgot about that, we could invade under international law on humanitarian grounds, for they way they treat their women, or should I say lack of treatment.

You know "New Zealand, the land of the great white cloud, where the sheep are happy and the women are frustrated":E

Slasher
17th Aug 2011, 07:10
Hay slash what about us don't we get invaded, feeling a bit left out.

Hmmm.....Oz...Oz...... need to think about that a moment.

Well ok, just off the top of my head I could see the present
Canberra politboro on the side of China if it decided to invade
the US (for ideological and a la Pig Iron Bob reasons) and this
of course would bring down the Bogan government through a
popular revolt. The Libs would immediately reverse the policy,
causing a diplomatic confrontation between Beijing, Canberra
and Washington.

This would cause the Australian bourse to immediately crash,
though not necessarily cause an interest rate rises on the AUD
but the Oz bond market could swell. This imbalance one would
then have to invade New Zealand to tap the cattle industry in
order to supplant the now-revitalised cattle export licenses to
address this imbalance, after all the Anti Cows-to-Indonesia
fluffies have been executed.

In short - kill all your animal do-gooders, dump Joolya and all
her cronies in power, invade NZ.

ShyTorque
17th Aug 2011, 09:48
Paul Krugman: Fake-Alien Invasion Would End Economic Slump

I disagree. The last UK government caused most of our economic problems and I reckon most of them were from another planet.

BombayDuck
17th Aug 2011, 12:48
That's because half of you lot voted for them, instead of all of you declaring war on them! :}

Lyman
17th Aug 2011, 14:41
Here in Cali, there are some prosperous small communities thriving on their own currency.

The problem is the Dollar. Well, actually the poseurs who Print It.

If there is a bully in the hood, don't play with him. He will cry, and go home.

Who on Earth are having the real problems now? Taking a species that is fundamentally a tribal beast into a Global arena; that cannot have a good result. Making him dependent on one or the other imitation of wealth will lead to , um....War.

The greatest irony in every Human endeavour is the denoument.

Over paper, men die, and kill.

The FEDERAL Government has to ask permission of a private money changer before printing, (not printing) Currency?

Anybody else see a problem with that and erm...Government by the PEOPLE?

So the solution is simple, and elegant.

The Mercantile always wins. Heroin, Oil, Gold, no matter, the MERC dictates. AS IT SHOULD.

Who are these Capitalists issuing their "OWN" currency? You know them, they went to Berkeley. They used to spout MARX, now they talk leverage, and stockpile.

I told you so, IRONY........

the cub

11Fan
17th Aug 2011, 16:46
They are already here. But they want to help us.

http://mygratitudelife.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/to-serve-man.jpg

Jane-DoH
7th Sep 2011, 10:32
11Fan

It's a cookbook! :}