View Full Version : So where would YOU recommend?

eastern wiseguy
13th Aug 2011, 16:35
Righto ....the scenario is this. You are about to retire

...you have a budget for a home of ...say....$300.000 and you would like affordable health care...reasonable weather and a stable government.

You have Irish /British citizenship and Mrs (let's call her for anonymity)EW American citizenship

13th Aug 2011, 17:01

Any chance of re-naming this thread to avoid confusion with an older and long running one of same name?

eastern wiseguy
13th Aug 2011, 17:03

Neptunus Rex
13th Aug 2011, 17:13
Greece...but rent, don't buy.

13th Aug 2011, 18:01
Australia, if you can get in. New Zealand, if you can't afford Australia's weather. ;)

13th Aug 2011, 19:17
I did it, I had that budget, now live in what I consider the best area in the world. And despite all the vissectitudes the house is now worth more than I paid for it (has been up to three times what it is now, but I'm not complaining). No inheritance tax, of course.

Best area ? Weather OK, good public transport, good medical facilities, taxes not to quibble about, WiMax to my house, and the TGV an hours drive away. Oh and superb restaurants, some not expensive.

Like I said, I'm happy.

Flying Serpent
13th Aug 2011, 20:15
A tricky question I've pondered myself....political and geological stability, temperate climate. Sounds like Corsica to me. Don't know too much about the property prices or taxation though.

13th Aug 2011, 20:29
Greece...but rent, don't buy.

I thought that at the moment you could buy Greece for $300k.

It would get you very little here. Cross it off your list.

13th Aug 2011, 20:35
Is Corse really that stable. Aren't there still "bands" of dissatisfied locals?

Mr Optimistic
13th Aug 2011, 20:38
That's a bit of a low budget for paradise. Believe W Costa Rica is proving popular with US folks. For a small fee I'll pop over and report back on prices.

13th Aug 2011, 20:48
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada (if you can afford it)

13th Aug 2011, 20:51
It's quite tricky to own property in Bermuda and, to be brutal, $300k is not that much over there. If you spend $500k on property in Bahamas you will get a fast track resident permit.
Spain is an excellent suggestion. It's a great country especially if you speak the language or more than one of them. I don't know much about the income tax rates but I don't think it is a haven.
Paradise is Seychelles but $300k won't go far there and of you get badly ill you will need to go to Mauritius or South Africa for treatment.
The US is cool of course and you have the entry level there. West coast Florida perhaps? My choice there would be two small places. Philadelphia and ?
New Zealand is a wonderful place but property prices come high. I think there is still a four year offshore asset tax amnesty for new arrivals. You be interested in that.
Australia is fine if they'll do you the great favour and let you in, which they almost certainly won't.
Vancouver is probably the best city in the world to live but the winters are something else. Still, you just drive south for two days and you're in California.
Probably need more input and fees top up for further information.

13th Aug 2011, 21:30
Florida (Miami specifically).

Loose rivets
13th Aug 2011, 21:31
It's a question close to my heart right now. Sitting in the worst summer I've ever known, in my old home town, and wondering what the @$^@ing heck I'm doing here. I can live and work in the US, but the medical thing has gone out of all proportion. S-I-L $144,000 for a four HOUR procedure. The 100k we earmarked for immediate only medical is a joke. Tripping on a curb could cost that.

Some of the kids may be going to the West Coast, but my quite pleasant home in Texas wouldn't buy me a kennel there. Can't stand being on the TexMex border any longer. Nice people, but the bullets from Mexico are falling just short of my town and the weather is just a tad the other way 42c 'tother day.

Where? Not much money left but want nothing but peace and being fussed over by a nubile wench - no, not really, just peace and finishing me book before I meet my statistical end.

What I'm sure of is despite a few remaining dear friends, I don't want to be in the UK - and that's from someone that really dug in and didn't want to venture far from cosey Frinton. It was wonderful once, but now . . . sheeeeesh! I spend all my time saying 'HOW MUCH!!!!!!!' I simply can not afford to live here.

Everyone seems hell bent on taking everything they can boil out of their neighbor. It's grotesque. I despair for people that can't fix things themselves.

Road traffic cameras and I'll not go too far into police that seem to 'work with' neanderthals who seize kid's veheicles and hold them for ransom because they've had a pile up, or even had them stolen.

"We keep them in a secure place so they're not stolen again." The kid would have at least been able to claim insurance, but not when gangsters are waiting for 160 quid, plus 10 quid a day. It hits the local rag, but nothing is done. Someone, please tell me the police are not 'encouraged' to send the luckless people's bikes and cars to one place.

It goes on, but not the remit of this thread. All I know is I'm sickened by a lot that's happened since I got back.

So where's perfect? A satirical program here in the UK suddenly became serious when the chairman started talking about the number of people in jail in the US. Especially when he read out the reports of just how much stuff is made by prisoners and sold in the US. Over two million people in jail, and plans to extend privatization. The word slavery was used to an uncharacteristically hushed panel several times. Jaws literally dropped.

To a country that doesn't allow imports from anywhere that uses slavery, the use of a million people to make things for a pittance is as blatant as it is unacceptable.

I have some weeks to think about it, but you know, so far I haven't got the fainest hint of a target utopia.

14th Aug 2011, 00:26
If you are over the age for immigration, (45), then, unless you already have the majority of your family in Australia, you can only apply for a sub-class 405 Temporary Residents visa, minimum age for one of you 55 years, initial cost about $20,000 per person plus a bond of $500,000 to either the State of the Federal Government, renewal cost about $17,000 per person, every four years. (The much cheaper sub-class 410 Temp. Res. visa ceased in 2006).

(If you are seriously loaded you could get in on a business visa).

New Zealand didn't, (and I think still don't) do any kind of retirement visa, you have to bring money and set up a business).

14th Aug 2011, 00:59
Somewhere in Asia, like Philippines or Thailand, though Im not sure that Mrs EW would appreciate it as much...

14th Aug 2011, 01:38
Costa Rica is a great place to retire to although for myself transiting through MIA isn't the most pleasant of experiences.

As for Vancouver BC, my old town, other that the fact that nobody I know can afford to move there, its a great place. The winters arn't that bad!!!!!!

14th Aug 2011, 01:44
Ya might have a gander at Oregon, USA, Rivets.

There's pros & cons, but overall it seems a nice place, and a rather quieter one in the contemporary maelstrom.

Has places to get as cold & wet - along a shore or up a mountain - as much as anywhere in the UK. Inland from the coastal ranges is arid steppe country not unlike central TX, but a tad cooler overall.

Has country places in abundance and relatively fewer city places - but is mostly placid enough in both. Portland and surround are world-class for a wide-range of things, from literati to lectronics. There's a long Pacific coastline spotted with small towns catering to fishing and misc tourism -- probably some opportunities for being a landlord & fixer-upper -- if one were inclined to such things, or a property manager for some absentee owner(s) who keeps track of a place or ten for absentees and thereby has revenue or housing or both, without having to purchase.

The health-care top-end cost issues are far from being completely settled, but seem to be set on a course for lower risk for total calamity from medical costs. If yre missus is in the system, you'd likely be, as well.

(Oregonians tend to talk down the place when they see settlers showing interest, on the theory that the fewer new permanent residents there are, the better the place remains. SO, the glowing full-color brochures will take a bit of digging to obtain, if available at all.)

14th Aug 2011, 01:57
Somewhere in Asia, like Philippines or Thailand, though Im not sure that Mrs EW would appreciate it as much...

I decided on the Philippines but then my wife is filipina. :ok:

There is a lot to be said for it. English is widely spoken, health care is good and surprisingly cheap, the cost of living is remarkably low and the people are cheerful and welcoming.

There is a retirement visa scheme that is relatively inexpensive compared to other countries.

You cannot own land as a foreigner but you can own condominium properties and other foreigners lease land and build on it.

Politically pretty stable just the usual long running stuff in some parts of Mindanao and the usual corrupt lot in Manila running the place. Some geological instability and the occasional typhoon depending on where you live.

We built our house 6 years ago (6000 sq ft) for around $100K and now worth more than twice that.

I would expect that 2 people could live well here, including employing help, on around $1000 pcm.

14th Aug 2011, 06:57
interesting question. it depends on your interests. sea or mountain? or river bank ?even garden with fruits and vegetables? and so on....

I will have two different suggetsion, and I am not sure is it possible at all( relating to visa and property ownership ) but worth to ask.

first, sea,
western part of Istria,somewhere between Pula,( Croatia) to Koper( Slovenia)
you may find apartments and houses for 1500/2000EUR per sqm.
infrastructure is Ok, and medical service,let say enough, standard treatment Ok, complicated issues you should look at bigger centers(Zagreb,Ljubljana,Italy..)
Climate,at least pleasant,not too much hot ,and never too cold,during winter it may rain for days and windy also.....
food is not cheap,but neither too expensive,comparing with developed part of Western Europe.

the second,continent,
my vote goes to Fruska Gora, hill on the south bank of Danube river, opposite from Novi Sad,Serbia. fantastic climate, 4 distinct seasons, winter without too much precipitation, clean air,peace, honey, gardening, fruits, vegetables, food is cheap and fantastic, houses with plots for tens of thousands of EURs , you have good medical opportunity on the doorstep, Novi Sad and Kamenica,( but I ma not sure how foreigner may use public medical service) ,private medical service is available and not too expensive.

if you have British pension, and 300k $ for real estate,both location will provide for you excellent retirement.
my cost estimate for the first suggestion ,for two persons, for normal life, is around 1000 Eurs,maybe a little less
and Second, around 500 will be more than enough,if you have your own garden( that I am sure that you will have and you will enjoy in producing your own vegetables,honey and some fruits)

and the last, and very important. political stability,as you name it.
As long as you have British passport,i.e citizenship other than locals, you will always have opportunity to leave place. unlike millions of locals who don't have such opportunity when bad times arrive.

just my opinion,and not backbone with legal regulations and opportunities.

14th Aug 2011, 09:48
An addendum to my earlier post: I just got back from having the deputy Mayor cut my hair and he tells me property transactions are doing very well in his town, it's the French who are buying here in Alt Emporda (N.E Catalunia) and that they seem to have limitless funds to acquire property here.

As always, prices have NOT slipped in desirable areas and with desireable property. We discussed an acquaintance who is holding out for a million euros for his villa - he's not had a single enquiry. We agreed if he dropped the price 40% it would be sold in a week.

Loose rivets
14th Aug 2011, 10:16
Ya might have a gander at Oregon, USA, Rivets.

Thanks for that. I did get into a ramble, but where to go is an urgent issue for me. I certainly don't want to lose my green card, though I'm eligible for a passport now, and that would stop this issue of having to be there a good proportion of the time. Having ranted, I still wouldn't give up my British passport - in for a penny and all that.

Certainly, I can't accept not seeing the grandchildren in TX we've helped to raise to 8 and 10, ( two busy professional parents) and that part of the world would be near enough to where they (may be) going and just what I'm looking for. I know the kids will be people very soon, but quitting this early is just unimaginable - just gone by so quickly.

My English g-kids are adorable, but tiny, and have the wonderful support of a Jewish family on the father's side. So, I don't feel a burden of responsibility to pay 1500 quid a month for a place literally, the size of my garage and den. Parking is a lottery, and buses come past at 45 mph in a 30 road with cars parked both sides. So totally unacceptable, but year in year out it carries on.

When they were given a Skype tour of my other son's house in TX, they were stunned. They were even more stunned to find they'd only covered one floor. It was less than one 5th of the price they would pay in N12 and in a beautiful tree lined road with nearby parklands. Just no comparison, but they put family first. Lot to be said for that, but paying for such a large part of one's life for a very modest home is such a burden and really spells out why one should look world-wide for somewhere that offers a better lifestyle.

Metro man
14th Aug 2011, 10:18
International Living - Since 1979 (http://internationalliving.com/)

Belize might be worth a look, otherwise Thailand or the Philippines.

Both have a retirement visa program.

Look at Pattaya, Chang Mai, Phuket. Low cost of living, good medical care, excellent food, interesting culture. Easy worldwide connections from Bangkok.

Look at Subic Bay, Cebu, Puerto Gallerha. Low cost of living, good medical care, English widely spoken, friendly people. Not as well connected as Thailand but direct flights to the USA and connections through BKK/SIN/HKG available.

Leave your money on deposit and travel around until you find a place you really like ALL the time, height of the tourist season/monsoon etc.

Some nice condominiums available in Pattaya for GBP400 a month.

14th Aug 2011, 13:23
Come to Canada (we're nice), anywhere but Quebec (sorry Pigboat) and maybe Ontario (too boring). Maritimes are good and cheap. Other maritimes on west coast are nice. Avoid Yellowknife and Moose Jaw.

14th Aug 2011, 13:36
It ain't no coincidence that Canada and 'Winter' are both six letter words!:=

14th Aug 2011, 15:49
You all know,

The Mrs and I have been discussing this for a few years now. We find it very difficult to think of any where there will provide what is required for retirement age; that is: -

Political stability Financial stability Advanced, comprehensive, affordable medical care Care for people who are aged, and possibly demented Good weather Enjoyable scenery Things to do, and cheaply Good communication systems; transportation, internet and phone Safe Nice people

There were many areas that met some of our needs, but none meet all.

Definites that we came up with include France, Greece, Germany, Canada, New Zealand, Singapore, Norway, Denmark & Sweden. The last few have problems with the weather.

Possibilities included Cape Town, Brunei, Baltic states (unlikely in the future), Finland (except they are all nutters and speak one hell of a difficult language)

Then we were left scratching our heads. St. Helena? No. Fiji? No. Easter Island? No. Middle East; maybe Oman, certainly no where else. Africa? Where is there that is stable and is likely to be stable in forty years time? South America - ditto, as is most of Aisa. Am not sure about the USA. I feel that there is much hurt going to happen in the next twenty years. Also the medicare situation is extortionate.

Flap 5
14th Aug 2011, 16:00
So the grass ain't so greener elsewhere after all? Whenever people suggest another place there is always a 'but' - and usually a big 'but'. I believe you get the biggest buts in Africa or the USA. There are some (not so) pretty big ones over there!

If you have loads of money then certain locations in the USA are about the best on offer. You will need good private health care and to be able to afford a good house and lifestyle, hence the loads of money requirement.

For poor people the UK seems to be where everyone wants to come to. They don't just stop in Italy, or France - no they end up on the coast of France to slip into a lorry on the way to Angleterre. So to everyone else the grass seems to be greener over here.

By the way do you know why the grass is greener over in Ireland? Because they are all over here stomping on our grass. :)

14th Aug 2011, 16:50
By the way do you know why the grass is greener over in Ireland?

Yes....it rains all the time!

sled dog
14th Aug 2011, 17:01
OFSO, a friend of mine lives in Santo Cristina d`Aro ( on a golf domaine ); a friend of his is an Estate Agent and has not sold anything of substance for months. However, if you have ready money available things could be different. Two villas from my friends villa is one that has been on the market for over a year, around 1 million euros. As you remarked, drop the price and it might sell. Friend speaks passable Spanish, and now trying to master Catalan ..........

14th Aug 2011, 17:39
Having ranted, I still wouldn't give up my British passport - in for a penny and all that.

Loose, you don't give up your British passport in the eyes of the British guvnment. Only in the eyes of the yanks. I am applying for US citizenship and will still keep my British passport


14th Aug 2011, 17:43
Further to Parabellum's post, my 60 year old divorced cousin is planning to join her daughter and family in Australia in 2 years time when she retires. She already part-owns the property her daughter, son in law and family live in. In her case she had been quoted Aus $40,000, and an approximate two year wait (which suits her) until it all goes through.

A long time since it was a tenner!

14th Aug 2011, 17:45
All depends where and what (as ever).

What is NOT selling is mass-produced houses on estates built for the non-res market. Apartments, you can't give away.

Empuriabrava selling well, lots of new building going on, but that's a marina city for you with a mooring at the end of every garden, very desirable.

Individual villas built for residents (insulation, double glazing, heating, a/c) sell OK. A few years ago we'd have asked 750k for our house at 600' on the mountainside with a double plot, now 500k would see it shift in a few days. Smallish villa at the end of our road with no pool (!) went in two weeks for under 400k.

Same old story, only takes one customer who wants what you've got to make a deal.

hval, suggest you look at northen Catalunia. Tick every box on your list except one - don't know many demented people here but maybe they are in disguise.

14th Aug 2011, 17:55
Belize might be worth a look

No, no, not Belize. Its got animals and plants and stuff, terrible place.

In fact, it's closed. Yeah, closed. A lot of people don't know about that, it being closed.

Besides that one, side of the country is completely surrounded by water. And with this AGW stuff, that one side will be underwater and that will only leave three sides. And who wants to live in a three sided country?

Oh, and there are people there, yes, that's right, people. You certainly don't want to live in a country that have people in it, do you?

That's what I thought.

Now sod off the lot of you, I'm saving Belize for myself. :E

eastern wiseguy
14th Aug 2011, 19:47
Quote: Originally Posted by Flap 5
By the way do you know why the grass is greener over in Ireland?

Yes....it rains all the time!

I live here...and I am well aware of that....it would be nice to open the curtains/drapes(no not that one) and see sunshine.....just once...hence the question.

I don't think Pattaya would be looked on kindly by Mrs EW...but Costa Rica...who'd a thought it!!

I am enjoying this!!

flying lid
14th Aug 2011, 20:22
Just back from 4 weeks hols in Thailand. Brother in law lives in crazy Bangkok - nice City to visit but I couldn't live there. We went up country (a bit) to Saraburi / Pak Chong, & Khao Yai national park - nice areas. (though we found blasted Tesco Lotus superstores everywhere). A few days in Blackpool - sorry Pattaya. Nice hotel (German run Thai Garden Resort), but the town is bedlam. Our last week was at Hua Hin, a seaside town on the opposite coast to Pattaya, clean, small(ish), nice & friendly. Nice place to retire to I think.

For me it would be England, The Forest of Dean area, (a few miles from Gloucester & last weeks riots !!!!!!!)

Where is Utopia ? - Does it exist in todays "get there in a day" world ???


14th Aug 2011, 20:24
Definitely canada; prob BC; and likely somewhere on vancouver island with below average rainfall...

14th Aug 2011, 20:34
Went through that process a while ago.

We ended up in a Tudor house in a little village in Suffolk, and it's bliss. The neighbours are all friendly, they all speak English, the pubs do good food and excellent beer, the healthcare is outstanding, and there's even a farm strip two miles away with some nice lil aeroplanes based there.

Loose rivets
14th Aug 2011, 23:21
Sounds like Frinton 40 years ago. Can it be 40? :eek:

I had a strip on 8 acres of the 800 just south of my home, for 30/= a week. 10 mins by foot. Had to move for mowing the hay, and take care the flarepath didn't set light to anything.

The tennis club was a 5 min jog away, and I had the heated pool pretty much to myself from end of March until the sprogs were let out of school.

Walking the Avenues late at night, we'd seldom meet another living soul, except for neighbor's cats. The sea and a reasonably priced beach hut was 15 mins walk from the house.

It was heaven - just a totally different world to today.

Just been talking to the wife on Skype, and she says I was always champing at the bit to leave. Not quite true, but I did put the house on the market more than a few times, only to find there was nowhere I really wanted to go. My great regret is going to Texas - it was cheap, with cars and a free house to use, so with a huge family 210 quid for the lot of us on Standby, was all too tempting. Baaaaaaaad mistake.

Ozzy: Yep, used to be you had to hand your passport over, but then, if you'd got the ba11s, simply take it back. Not a good start to a new way of life. However, now it seems the Americans are not too worried about Brits and their documents. I'm trusting we'll never find ourselves rattling sabres at each other.

14th Aug 2011, 23:28
Have to say Keef if you're not interested in hot temperatures (and a lot of us aren't) your idea appeals. 180 straight days of c 95F/35C inoculated me against the quest for endless sun for the rest of my life.

Been around 3 continents quite a bit and I reckon that there are still loads of places on these islands that take a bit of beating - you obviously live in one - I live in another :ok:.

Howard Hughes
14th Aug 2011, 23:34
I quite like the look of the place that advertises on this site, Zandspruit. (http://www.zandspruit.co.za/) Looks like you could pick up quite a nice place for $300K and the scenery looks amazing, not sure what it would be like politically though.:ok:

15th Aug 2011, 01:11
If you want to live at a runway with lots of interesting vintage planes there is AirparkTemora (http://www.airparktemora.com.au/) in Australia. As for me Im thinking of retiring to live on a big yacht in Philippines, maybe Subic. But still got a few years to go. Ive got a house in Philippines for <$100k so $$ go a long way there and they all speak good english.

15th Aug 2011, 02:47
Definitely canada; prob BC; and likely somewhere on vancouver island with below average rainfall...

Sechelt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sechelt,_British_Columbia) area in BC, on the West coast just North of Vancouver.
A true little affordable (versus Vancouver) Canadian Paradise.
No harsh winter there as a bonus.

spInY nORmAn
15th Aug 2011, 11:21
Avoid Yellowknife and Moose Jaw.

Harumph! Been in Yellowknife for many years - no complaints ;). It has appeared on several lists of best places to live in Canada. Don't let a little cold weather put you off!

15th Aug 2011, 12:14
Noteworthy that PPrUneonia hasn't been mentioned, but I suppose we are all cybernetically living there already.

16th Aug 2011, 13:11
I have been asked to post the following by a JB-er who is unable to access PPRuNe from his present location, although there is a distinct resemblence bwteen his PPRuNe name and the place he is recommending.

Despite what many will tell you, South Africa is still a good option. The infrastructure is good, although in decline, we have some of the best medical facilities in the world (and some of the worst), good communications (apart from slow internet, which is being addressed) with the rest of the world, and plenty of places where crime is low and one can easily isolate oneself from most of it. The economy is sound and well managed and the banking and finance sectors are amongst the best regulated in the world.

English is the main language for daily use in most contexts and most of the population speak at least basic English, with a majority speaking it more or less fluently.
Cape Town is generally overpriced and overpopulated, with increasing traffic problems for commuters despite improvements in public transport, but plenty of small towns and villages within an hour or so of Cape Town offer superb living conditions and opportunities, and going further afield, property is excellent value. The Lowveld has areas, for example around Hazyview and White River, which would be lovely places to which to retire. Generally, renting might be a better option than buying.

16th Aug 2011, 14:44
It's a beautiful country (in parts) but I would be worried that the rulers might go all Mugabe on the white population.

16th Aug 2011, 15:55
Campbell River - especially if you have a float plane. The Tyee Spit was once the busiest base in North America (after Alaska).

Campbell River... my home - YouTube

20th Aug 2011, 13:45
Spain just cut the TAV tax on house purchases by 50% in an effort to stimulate the market. That's for new construction, and I wonder how much effect it will have in a country where a simple contract between vendor and purchasor is legal (i.e. CGT tax isn't payable until the sale is notified to the State which is at your discretion. Leave it five years and a day and you can avoid it.)

Still, good news for foreign purchasers.

20th Aug 2011, 14:27
Noteworthy that PPrUneonia hasn't been mentioned, but I suppose we are all cybernetically living there already.

Yesterday I successfully fought off that no-confidence motion
Your Majesty, and my Prime Ministerial office wishes to thank
you for your large generous donation of boobies to achieve it!

20th Aug 2011, 15:09
Transdniestria sounds like fun.

Tasty totty there anyway.

20th Aug 2011, 16:15
I understand that Sicily can be very pleasant. I'm told that you have to obtain social approval from the Mafia, or however the style themselves, and that once you've done that, all is lollipops and lambrusco. No taxes, other than to your protectors, certainly no vandalism or theft of your stuff, friendly people because you're part of the curiously in crowd and much social standing especially if you can ride to horse as an English gentleman should. Not sure about the medical side of things but with all those guitar cases around someone must know how to dig out a bullet.

20th Aug 2011, 16:58
Anywhere in Italy (because you will find out Whom to contact) is less difficult than in Spain (where there isn't Anyone to contact). Laws can be equally confusing in both countries but Italy works quite well once you Make Friends.

A German lady I knew in Frascati had her car stolen. A trip to the local police was useless (confusion, incompetence, couldn't-care-less) so she went to see one of the Friends. He smiled sympathetically, made a phone call, said "Oh Doris, why you not come to see me straight away ? Next time, eh, you not forget ? Your car now in pieces, being sold at (---). But look, my brother-in-law sells second-hand cars, you want me to give him a call, tell him to give you special price as you are a friend of mine ?"

Here in Spain you'd still be waiting six months later for the paperwork to be done.......

Italy: summer holidays in Rome. You used go away on your vacations, leave L10,000 note on the kitchen table. Thieves break in, take note, leave everything else, chalk mark on doorway so other thieves know house has "paid it's dues". No more trouble.

Spain: summer holidays: Rumanians break in and steal everything.

(Rumanians try that in Italy and they'd have trouble walking and picking their noses for a few months).

20th Aug 2011, 17:18
Loose rivets
To a country that doesn't allow imports from anywhere that uses slavery, the use of a million people to make things for a pittance is as blatant as it is unacceptable.
A pittance + free accommodation +free food +free health care + free clothes + free gym + free security 24/7.