IR training in N-reg a/c in the UK?

[FlyingGoat]

Can one receive IR training (for a JAR I/R) from a non-FAA licensed instructor in a N-reg a/c in the UK?

[Whopity]

Why not, provided the owner has DfT permission for aerial work and the aircraft is on the FTOs approval? What possible relevance would a CII rating have for a non FAA qualification?

[Stan Evil]

Just to reinforce Whopity's post. All training for the initial issue of an IR must be carried out at an approved FTO. If they wish to use a N-reg aeroplane in the UK they will have to inform the CAA and get DfT approval. Neither organisation should give approval unless the correct paperwork etc is in place.

[IO540]

I agree with all above.

I have had to look into this recently too.

FAR 61.3 is met by the UK JAA IR instructor having papers which were issued by the owner of UK airspace (UK CAA). So that takes care of the State of Registry requirements.

One has to get this right because, for a reason which escapes me, the UK FTO instructor regards himself as PIC, even if the LHS occupant holds an FAA PPL/IR or CPL/IR and can thus be legally PIC anywhere in the world. I don't see any fundamental reason why the instructor should be PIC in that situation; it would not be the case in FAA-land.

[Whopity]

for a reason which escapes me, the UK FTO instructor regards himself as PIC, even if the LHS occupant holds an FAA PPL/IR or CPL/IR and can thus be legally PICIf you are receiving Flight Instruction for a new rating, you are acting under the direction of an Instructor and therefore not technically in command. In most cases you would not have a valid rating to be IFR (Flying a N reg is an exception) JAR-FCL 1080(c) Logging of time
(1) Pilot-in-command flight time
(i) The holder of a licence may
log as pilot-in-command time all of the
flight time during which he is the pilot in-
command.

(iii) The holder of an instructor
rating may log as pilot-in-command all
flight time during which he acts as an
instructor in an aeroplane.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Surely the instructor will need an FAA CPL to carry out aerial work in an N reg?

G

[Whopity]

No, FAR 61.3 allows an N Reg to be operated in a foreign country by a pilot having a licence issued by that country Is operating an aircraft within a foreign country using a pilot license issued by that country and possesses evidence of current medical qualification for that license
The Aerial work aspect is covered by DfT permission and an appropriate licence issued by the State where the operation takes place.

[IO540]

(iii) The holder of an instructor
rating may log as pilot-in-command all
flight time during which he acts as an
instructor in an aeroplane.

However, that does not mean he has to :)

What I don't see is why, for example, one could not do a flight like this: instrument instruction in UK airspace (LHS logs PU/T, instructor logs PIC), flight continues to France to fly a load of free approaches (LHS logs PIC, instructor logs nothing).

I can see the instructor's FTO might not be happy about him not logging the French airspace time ;) but that is a separate matter.

[Whopity]

As an instructional flight it will be authorised as such in accordance with the FTO Operations Manual and the Instructor is Authorised as PIC for the flight. If you wish to change it, the Instructor will climb out and you can continue to France as PIC however, it won't count towards the conversion.