The opposite end of the Qantas Spectrum....

[Bypass ratio]

Dictator of the skies : Prime time : SunNews Video Gallery (http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/dictator-of-the-skies/1094497028001)

[TIMA9X]

Bypass ratio,
Many thanks, some great stuff in there, a must watch.

[UPPERLOBE]

Very very scary stuff there.

The pollies and mandarins who will decide the future are all junket junkies and will surely bend over and open the skies, errr, so to speak.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Yet when you argue this "issue" on this board you're shot down and told Qantas should and can compete with Middle Eastern airlines but choose not too and the competitive market is fair...

Now here we have the Canadian "AIPA" arguing about this issue - your fellow colleagues...

[Going Boeing]

You would have to suspect that the huge amount of capacity rights that Emirates and Etihad have into Australia is linked to the fact that the Australian military are operating out of bases in the UAE originally in support of the Iraq operation but more recently in support of the Afghanistan operation.

[Icarus2001]

What we are witnessing at the moment; the share market; US dollar decline; downgrade in US credit rating; is the beginning of the decline of "western" power and the rise of "eastern" power.

India and China have massive markets and those consumers see what "we" in the west have and they want it. As a result companies that supply this will prosper, even the government owned ones.

Air Asia is tapping into that and as they grow the flag carrier of Malaysia Airlines is declining because their "model" is too much old style. Personally I like their product but they struggle to be profitable.

Yet when you argue this "issue" on this board you're shot down and told Qantas should and can compete with Middle Eastern airlines but choose not too and the competitive market is fair...

People on these boards get upset that essentially the cabin crew, engineers and pilots seem to be blamed for Qantas being unprofitable. Look at the product on the Kangaroo route and compare it to the competition.

One final word, Captain Canada who spoke well, talked about "fair competition", he did not say "level playing field" but that is what he meant. There is no "fair competition". Each entity competes on their inherent strengths be that a perception of safety (QF) a certain sentiment about being miles from home but boarding an aircraft with a crew that welcomes you with an Australian accent(QF) or ultra cheap no frills flights (Air Asia) or even full service two sector flights to Europe from Australia (Emirates).

The calls on here for protection fall on deaf ears, the government will not push up prices by reintroducing protection and they probably cannot legally anyway without retribution from overseas carriers and states. In the same way that Mr Harvey and the retail council want internet purchased imports taxed when they arrive in the country, the government will not punish consumers to protect his profits and nor should they. As they will not punish air travellers to protect QF. Even though they have protected it not so subtlely since privatisation.

This is the world as it is today and where it is going. There is another thread about protection which uses the car industry as an analogy extolling the protection. The tariffs have been slowly wound back, no government is going to increase them.

If Queensland bananas are $20 kilo then send me some from SE Asia at $10. That is what the consumer wants and that is what they will get. If it is a banana or a seat on an aircraft the same market forces apply.

Whether it is sad, fair, or desireable is pretty much irrelevant.

[7378FE]

You would have to suspect that the huge amount of capacity rights that Emirates and Etihad have into Australia

Australian airlines have the same amount of capacity rights to the UAE, they just choose not to use most of it. (Virgin Australia use a little bit)

[600ft-lb]

Emirates | Ogilvy Public Relations Australia (http://www.ogilvypr.com.au/tag/emirates/)
January 1, 2005 by Claire Whyntie (http://www.ogilvypr.com.au/author/clairewhyntie/)
Filed under Case studies (http://www.ogilvypr.com.au/category/case-studies/), Emirates (http://www.ogilvypr.com.au/category/case-studies/public-affairs/emirates/)


Challenge To double Emirates’ cap of 49 flights a week to Australia over 7 years via a multifaceted strategy negotiating directly with the federal government, influencing their state ministerial counterparts and all political stakeholders on the positive outcomes this deal would deliver to Australia’s tourism exports sector. To complement the government relations strategy, P&P developed a 360° PA campaign which included strategic media management which shaped broader reporting on aviation policy, leveraging existing partnerships and developing events which highlighted EK commitment and articulated its Australian story.

Like sacking all of their engineers last year.
Campaign
Our primary Government target was the Federal Minister for Transport and Regional Services but also key Cabinet Ministers, senior bureaucrats and public servants. We organised media briefings, visits by senior Emirates executives, commissioned significant research and tailored messages to over 100 key stakeholders.


See, if this was Asia, Qantas and their leadership aka GD at the time, would've gotten their mate Singleton who owns Ogilvy PR to sabotage EK's efforts. But this isn't Asia and the same PR firm that Qantas uses has scored massively to Qantas's detriment in the past.

Ogilvy PR is obviously a worthy PR firm to engage, no doubt its currently engaged in the current industrial war frontline.

[donpizmeov]

Going Boeing if they had fantastic foresight you may be right. But all the rights for EK to Oz were set in 2000. By then EK was daily into MEL and about to start 4 times a week into SYD. Major deployments of OZ troops did not really start until after the second gulf punch up some years later.

[Going Boeing]

Don, I was referring to the huge increases in capacity a couple of years after the initial entry into the Oz market. The RAAF was operating out of the UAE from the start of the Iraq campaign.

7378FE, I suspect that you miss the point about the available capacity into Dubai and Abu Dhabi - there is no significant market into those ports. Virgin Oz is utilising some capacity to feed Etihads services to many other ports (mainly Europe) but as all the other incumbent airlines on the Kangaroo route already have services via other ports (SIN, KUL, BKK, HKG, etc) to Europe, thus operations through the UAE ports would be duplicating existing capacity.

[donpizmeov]

Hong Kong population 7 million, Cathay 103 widebodies.
Singapore popultion 5 million, SQ 124 widebodies.
UAE population 4.6 million, EK 155 widebodies.

All fly the kangaroo route, but all fly to other places as well. All have modern equipment, and make a profit.
Australia population 23 million, QF 89 widebodies (not sure if all those 330s are QF or pornstar though).
Canada population 33.7 million, Air Canada 56 widebodies.
No wonder the Canadians can not compete.

The Don

[Chimbu chuckles]

Don that figure includes jingly labourers - native population of UAE is < 1 million...42% in Abu Dhabi, 33% in DXB. So that is 155 widebodies for a population of around 300,000.

[donpizmeov]

True Chimbu, but they all get to fly home, its part of the labour law. So although not many hold UAE passports, they live there and fly from there. Lots of expats in the other two places as well, but admittedly the lowest number of nationals will be in the UAE.
As mentioned in the interview, only 25% of pax stay in DXB. The other 75% transit. DXB needs the money from the 25%, so EK based their fleet numbers on making this 25% a large enough number to ensure Tourism, along with trade and finance replace the depleting Oil bit of GDP.
Seems a copycat of the SQ and Singapore relationship, and also that of Hong Kong and CX. But seems a business plan that works for all three companies. Maybe they should grow up and realise they have it all wrong and should go the way of Air Canada and Qantas?
QF needs a new leadership team that has some vision and a willingness to grow the company. They already have a capable and dedicated workforce, but are wasting them.

The Don

[Capt Roo]

There's been one lonely voice from the other side of the world protesting about what the UAE carriers have been doing for a while now.
While many guys have been supportive, have met with vitriol from some apologists, who no doubt profit from their turn at the trough.
Companies such as EY, EK and QR lower the bar for everyone else. Nothing but more flying with longer duty hours and a smaller safety margin will result. The long term consequences of this is the destruction of established airlines such as Qantas, who are unable to compete with the upstarts.

[bigbrother]

IIcarus, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have had similar views for quite some time and am gladdened to see Australians starting to wake up to the decades of misguided agenda's of stupid politicians.

I personally have been on a mission to inform people of the alternatives to current policies on Infrastructure and Utilities. Years of selling off the 'people's rights' to own our electricity and water, lack of vision toward realistic trasition to alternative power and so on and so forth. I see Australians slowly waking up to the effects of these past ventures. As in other parts of the world where the 'level playing field' is where you go to kick a ball, rather than the 'Free Trade' clap trap offered up by pollies.

Better late than never but the road back won't be easy