Passengers in charge of overwing exits.

[sixtiesrelic]

Travelled in an airliner recently and sat in front of an emergency row.
The girl gave the three giggling women sitting in the row a briefing about how to operate the exit.

They'd had a few prior to boarding and had a few more along the way. Big weekend off to another city for lotsa fun. If the **** have hit the fan I doubt these nice young things would have been the most proficient at getting it open and out of the way so the rest of us had a chance to escape judging by the racket that came from their row.

OH yes! the FA's could re-seat more competent people there IF they had time to think about it...
I talk to my old compares’ and there is a scarily immoral lack of adequate training these days for flight crew on both sides of the cockpit door. Box ticking has overwhelmed competency because the bean counters who run the airlines are busy saving dollars and producing tickable forms.

If I hit the call button and told some of these keen but minimally trained FA's I'm a retired pilot with years of experience in this particular aircraft type and I can efficiently open a window and make sure people do the right thing exiting the aircraft do you think I'd be swapped with Joe public?.

I travelled on Garuda 737s to and around Indonesia and a FA sat at the over-wing exits for take-off and landing. I felt a whole lot more secure in their aircraft than I do in Aussy ones AND every expert shakes their head at that carrier because of its reputation.

Sorry Australia! Our modern aircrew are poorly trained because the real experience (the old and bold on both sides of the cockpit door) have been replaced with children with degrees who know everything they studied at uni....um what was THEIR pass mark for their courses... 50%... That equates to only knowing half their stuff and a lot of that stuff is total flag waving bulldust to appease the pollies and public.

It's about time deadheading, off duty ex and crew sat in those seats because too many who know, reckon something's gunna happen sooner or later.
And for the young and brash... older crew have emergency training branded into their subconcious that popps out when called upon.

[Jabawocky]

100% Agree Sixtiesyoungster! :ok:

They should be breath tested before boarding! Want the leg room, pay the price. Of course airlines now charge a premium for these seats:ugh:

[psycho joe]

Gotta love the arrogance of old age. :D

Interesting extrapolation; An F/A puts laughing pax in exit row instead of an old man. So, therefore, the "modern Pilots" must be poorly trained, and Uni students are only half trained at best. So you decided to publish your findings here for peer review.

[SpannerTwister]

Gotta love the arrogance of old age. :D

Just 'cos the OP's and old fart and "arrogant".....Doesn't mean he's not right ==>Poke out tongue emoticon <===

ST

[JMEN]

Relic,

Great observation, same same further North of Aus. Any low cost with a 319 will do the dame ABP for the front door, and OW. A320 just the OW. Yes I think in a situation it would be interesting to say the least.

But I am glad you see it the way I see it, do not blame the crew, they have been trained and achieved company standard or they would not be there, blame as you do the higher levels or the authority who let them get away with it.

Hope it never happens but I know I am the last one of the ship!

:suspect:

[BigGun]

It would all depend on the type of aircraft.
737 for instance, OWE doors are spring loaded and open easy as pie, the hard part is pulling them back in to close them, not an easy job.

767's only tank body builder type should be sitted on the OWE door, thoes doors come right out, and they are not light, you talking about a door that at a guess is an easy 20kg-40kg Last time I pulled one out, it came inside the aircraft to be worked on, was not an easy job!

[airsupport]

I flew on a domestic flight some years ago now, where just before we departed one of the Flight Attendants moved to one of the emergency exit row window seats a young guy with a broken leg. :eek:

Her heart was in the right place, to make this pax more comfortable with all the extra leg room :ok: but God knows what she thought would happen in an emergency. :ugh:

[SpannerTwister]

It would all depend on the type of aircraft.
737 for instance, OWE doors are spring loaded and open easy as pie
On the 737-NG yes.The "Classic" not so much !!!

A LAME who pulls the Classic over-wing doors out on many of the checks will tell you that it's not an "easy" task while the aircraft is stationary, level, lit and not full of screaming passengers who think (possibly with a large amount of justification) that if they are not out of the door in 30 seconds they are going to die !

In all seriousness, IMHO, an untrained passenger would **NOT** be able to remove and throw a 737-Classic overwing exit door out of the hatch under adverse conditions.

the hard part is pulling them back in to close them, not an easy job. ...Like everything, when you've done it tons of times it's not an issue !

ST

[Kelly Slater]

Cabin Crew don't allocate seats, people enter with boarding passes. The CC does not have the right to move someone without reason but does have the obligation to ensure that competent and compliant people are seated at emergency exits. Some airlines now charge a premium for the emergency exit row, a practice that should never have been allowed to come into existence and one that needs to be banned. Try telling the rather large gentleman who paid extra that he now has to sit somewhere else because he is too fat to exit the aircraft quickly. Identifying crew from your or other airlines at the point of issuing boarding passes and seating them at the exits is the cheapest insurance an airline will ever get. With on line check-in and self check-in, this practice is much harder to implement and so probably no longer an option. I've only ever seen Air Niugini and MBA do this anyway, It was probably something that came from Ansett.

[skylarker]

Sorry Australia! Our modern aircrew are poorly trained because the real experience (the old and bold on both sides of the cockpit door) have been replaced with children with degrees who know everything they studied at uni....um what was THEIR pass mark for their courses... 50%... That equates to only knowing half their stuff and a lot of that stuff is total flag waving bulldust to appease the pollies and public.

You are very much mistaken my friend. I have seen first hand at recurrent training the more experienced crew nearly brought to tears from nerves about their impending exams. These "more experienced crew" tend to study for these exams much longer than most and many just barely scrape through. Having said that, so do some of the younger crew.
We are all trained to the same standards and the recurrent training is very strict.
Some people absorb and retain information better than others.
You have no real knowledge of our industry and no right to make such sweeping statements.
I will say however, I agree with paxing crew and off duty crew given priority with regard to o/w exits as this makes sense and has been a bug bear of mine for quite some time.
In this instance it is the airlines giving way to safety over pax comfort.

[S70IP]

The pass mark for my company for cabin Crew Exams, EP's etc is 80%. I know in my job I don't know everything, but I am aware that I don't.

As far as people not been able to operate the exits. Natural selection kicks in. I'm looking after number one. Help people after that. If people don't realise the importance of their responsibilities and the potential of their environment so be it.

My ex-partner was on a plane and an old lady didn't know how to undo her seat belt when the sign was turned off at the gate. My ex was never backwards from coming forwards and let her know infront of everyone that she had failed to listen and understand the emergency brief and put her life and others around her (potentially blocking the exit row). The old lady was very emabrrassed. Let's face it other than aircraft how many belts these days require the lifting of the buckle? Everything these days are clip in and button to release types. Twenty years ago in the Ford Valiant maybe but not today.

[Wally Mk2]

Biggest problem here is complacency.How many people actually listen & take note of any safety instructions during the briefing? VERY FEW mainly due flying being so cheap these days everyone has done it several times & nobody really thinks it's gunna happen to them (crash) so even though they may appear to be watching/listening that guarantees nothing! In a true panick situation 99% or people will be thinking only one thing, how do "I" get off this thing & fast!

Placing ABP in an emerg exit row is just to appease the rule makers, nothing more as ABP can panic just as good as an old lady!


Wmk2

[teresa green]

As a relic from the past, I always ask on JQ to put me there. And as I travel a lot, the staff at the Goldie just about do it automatically. For a start I know how to open the bloody thing, I am also fairly strong despite my passing years. If you are on staff travel, chances are you will be put there anyway (unless your leg is in a plaster cast.) As far as I am concerned should you prang, the whole thing becomes a exit as far as I can see. I cannot see much difference in the training, between us and them, though we did not have to battle the companies to keep standards up. The airline companies up to the late nineties put safety before profit, it would appear the wheel has fallen off there, (think 400 hr F/Os and non LAME dispatched flights) unheard of in our era. I think the pilots, CC and Engineers are just as safety conscious as we were, but we did not have dickheads for managers.

[Wunwing]

Phsyc Joe

The only way you get to be an old fart in aviation is by learning from your own and others experiences. There have been many experiences that show that one of the most dangerous things in aircraft accidents, is misusing exits.
The 2 that immediately spring to mind are British Airtours in Manchester and a Canadian DC9 in the USA. Both old accidents now,but us old farts learnt from them and the examples are still valid today.There are many more if you choose to look. In both those cases misuse of main exits caused the fire to erupt in the cabin.

As airline crew, both CC and TC we are trained amongst other things to check the exit is safe before opening. It is drilled into you every EPs day.It is a real danger and has nothing to do with age or the kind of hair you have. Only training will let you handle the situation if you find yourself there and it is as much about blocking an exit when justified, as opening the door and keeping an exit clear for evacuation.I therefore have a very real problem of substituting the old policy of travelling crew, retired crew, armed forces and police types with the person who pays the most.These exits are life and death not just a better seat. Once open, they can't be closed and death has and will result from a wrong decision. It gets even worse with automated check in, as the 1st time a real person gets to see if your suitable is in the seat. With the time pressures involved it is hard to see how this could be resolved at such a late time.

And then we get to alcohol. I put up an earlier post on just this, which died through lack of interest.DOT and CASA when the DAMP rules where put in place used in an example of who could be tested in a SSAA, a person washing the refueling truck. If the truck washer is so critical, why is not the controller of overwing exits even more important.In fact at a DAMP conference last year I asked that very question. I asked the question to the CASA DAMP team again earlier this year and they admitted that it was under discussion. The situation is scandalous when the persons at overwing exits are not checked for drugs and alcohol prior to boarding and can then be served alcohol in flight.

This situation is a clear example of why the regulator has failed and the airlines greed has overtaken their safety conscience.The only way to make an overwing exit safe is to go back to the old system, or even more radical, have a cabin crew member supervising this vital safety function.

Wunwing

[oldpax]

Flying to the UK next month,I think I will carry the photo of me wearing a "Mae west"next to my favourite airoplane,maybe I will get a emergency exit seat without paying extra?!!!!Oh yes ,I am 1.88 metres tall and can only afford economy!!!

[Lookleft]

The pax don't understand that each time they sit in an exit seat and agree to assist with an evacuation that they are potentially live motion crash test dummies! The opening post referred to pax being allowed to drink which is just insanity. There is only one way that this practise will be stopped and it will be a very sad day for the aviation industry in Australia.

[PeterTG]

I travel about 4 times a year on international flights and I have observed a growing trend to overweight to seriously obese people being placed in the exit rows, on my flight to Thailand last week there was a person I would consider to be morbidly obese in the exit row. Madness.:ugh:

[sixtiesrelic]

Psycho Joe and Skylarker; interpreting your posts in the vein that you have read mine I could decide YOU are opinionated little smart arses, BUT I have age on my side, which has given me the experience to understand where you are coming from. I’m saying the industry has slipped and you don’t see it that way because you think it’s great… but it ain’t! There’s a lot you don’t know about that’s going on and so much has been lost.
We all have learned our stuff from people we regard as experts in their field and fire up when we are told something contrary. A lot of those teachers are just adequate.
We’re regularly fed lies and omissions ‘because it is for the common good’ or the almighty dollar.
Example… my father in law was a soldier during WW2. In 1952 his daughter came home from school and announced the teacher told them Darwin was bombed over sixty times.
George reckoned the teacher was a Commo liar. ‘HE’D been in the thick of it in the desert and New Guinea and ‘the boys’ were kept up on what was happening… they needed to be’. He was a bit disappointed at his naivety in later years when the secrets were released.

Years after the fact, all sorts of little truths come out and the old and wise start seeing through the official line we’re being fed because of their past experiences.

JOE! ...Interesting extrapolation; "An F/A puts laughing pax in exit row instead of an old man. So, therefore, the "modern Pilots" must be poorly trained, and Uni students are only half trained at best. So you decided to publish your findings here for peer review.
I love your interpretation.

Laughing passengers … no mate! tiddly passengers who had more drinks on the flight. Where did I say I wanted to be put in the exit row. I’m of medium height and had leg room. I didn’t covert the exit row. I could see that problems could occur if there had been a flame out prior to landing for example… no time other brace for impact.
I can see the need for more sense in utilizing trained people where they can be used. Virgin were bunging passengering crew down the back with the crying babies, because payers wouldn't want to sit there.

So THEREFORE??? Modern pilots must be poorly trained… where did you get that gem from?
Before deregulation crews got up to half as much more, training than they do now. Once the pilot started paying for endorsements the sim time was pared to the minimum. Flight attendant training time had diminished really badly in a couple of airlines I’ve been told about.
We were fortunate in having that extra time to get past ‘adequate’ to ‘confidently competent’. The company was paying and pilots ran the flight department and understood that a couple of more goes at something a bloke was struggling with got him over the hump and he would improve even more, at his own pace.

Bean counters have no idea of what flying is about … you just plug the auto pilot in and sit back and bludge according to some of them and a lot of the yobbos down the back.

Skylarker… “You have no real knowledge of our industry and no right to make such sweeping statements”. What leads you to that opinion?
I have probably been in the industry for longer than you’ve lived and I still am in it… Not getting shafted flying aeroplanes though. I walked when I saw the decline setting in like I’d heard it had happened in the railways decades before.

One of the things about getting older is you meet people all the time. Your peers progress from sproggy F.Os to management over the decades.
You talk to old friends and they tell you what’s happening.
I have friends in three airlines who love relating the latest goings on.

All the employees from check-in through aircrew and into engineering are doing the best they can. Nearly all are proud to be a member of the airline. Sadly the tools they are given by the bean counters are woefully inadequate… training, numbers and SPARES for example.
Management knows and relies on this pride to shaft the plebs. Management is a seperate industry. Stay for the contract then bugger off to greener pastures while the faithful employee remains for their working life.

Read the latest crash comic. Pilots are losing their touch because the company insists they plug the auto pilot in for almost all the flight. Pilots need to fly aeroplanes, not push buttons and monitor systems, because against all the odds, the computers CAN crap themselves and the last line of defence is the pilot who, like a top athlete NEEDS to keep in training to give the required performance and save the day.

Air crash investigation… are you game to watch them? …Lot of ham fistedness pops up in those episodes. Body angles and power settings for the flight range, do you know them?

Flight Attendants put up with crap they shouldn’t have to from complete yobbos. Their most common announcement, on being told to adhere to safety is, “You can’t make me”. F.As have more pax each to deal with than earlier days. Bean counters don’t give a bugger about the strain it puts them under. As I inferred, Garuda had six attendants in their 737 so all exits were manned by fully trained crew members. Indonesian passengers were a lot more respectful of them than we see here.

The bean counters got rid of the spares so the bottom line looked good… a nightmare for the poor bloody engineers who have to do a juggling act with MELs against their better judgement.

Check in personnel… who’d have that job? Angry customers who are wanting to punch their lights out because they’re the face of the company and are required to carry out the company policy. Does the company come to their aid and back them up as soon as they are under attack. No bloody way. There’s customer satisfaction and political correctness to adhere to and the employees can cop it so there’s no bad publicity.

The FAID system for rostering … what a beauty! A computer decides if crew are OK for a flight or fatigued.
Change a sign on or sign off time by five minutes like for example 05:00 to 05:05 and voila they can work.
In the olden days rostering was done by humans. A human understood fatigue so didn’t roster some poor bugger for a midnight sign on in Perth and a sit round at the destination for hours to then crew a flight that got him in to the final destination just within legal duty time. Computers DO.

I’ve learned that the wheel turns. Things can’t get much worse and they’ll improve and you hurt young guns will see just how bad it is now. Right now you think it’s great because you’ve busted your gut to get where you are.
If you are a bean counter… the day will come when common sense will prevail and your days of glory will fade. Enjoy it while you’ve got it and don’t spend all the loot you’re making. The day’ll come when you’ll need it.

Oldpax! you could do a printout of your flight simulator logbook too.

[matkat]

On Monday 8th August I flew BMI baby EDI-EMA as you have to pay extra for the emergency exits so they are rarely filled, after doors closed one of the PAX (not me) moved into an empty O/W exit seat only to be told by a FA that he had to get back to his alocated seat because as he had to pay extra for the seat it would be the same as if he had been moving to first class, TBH after doors are closed the FAs should ask for people to move into those seats much better to have someone there than not, as a previous poster pointed out a lot of experience and common sense has left the business and not replaced.:ugh:

[SpannerTwister]

there was a person I would consider to be morbidly obese in the exit row. Madness.:ugh:

Not madness at all...There's an extra $20 in the bank for the airline :ugh:

Same profit margin as selling five extra muffins :}

ST

[UTW]

Management is a seperate industry. Stay for the contract then bugger off to greener pastures while the faithful employee remains for their working life.24 words sums up the cause of our industry's demise!

:mad:

[kimir]

60'sRelic, I hear what you say, agree with some aspects of it. The system has changed, the passengers have changed (a wider cross section of the community) we are all just trying to deal with it as best we can. Someone else said it - the o/w seats are sold at a premium these days. The F/A's can move people but it is a judgement call on their behalf. As with any operation there are good people and not so good people. Those of us working on the line are dealing with a whole heap more crap than you older blokes ever did and doing longer days than you ever did. I dont think the things that are happening are good or right by the way. So whilst I agree with some of your comments what are we to do about it if we wish to stay in the industry? As far as Tech crew standards go however I wonder how you form your opinions. I wouldn't have felt to safe on the Garuda 737 into Yogyakarta even if there were 6 f/a's and one in the overwing.

[psycho joe]

So, do we know for sure that these mysterious damsels of the exit row were poorly placed, and not;

Flight Attendants
Pilots
Engineers
Air Marshals
Police
Military
Tiquando Instructors
Ultimate Cage Fighting Champions

Each generation is convinced that they were better than the next. :hmm:

[Lookleft]

Who cares what they were but by the description it was a reasonable assumption that they were under the influence of something by their conduct and they would have been a problem during an evacuation. As I have said before this concept of pax assisting during an evacuation is an untried one so it has nothing to do with generational finger pointing. I have witnessed the problems that occur when pax want the legroom but do not want the responsibility.

[Icarus2001]

As I have said before this concept of pax assisting during an evacuation is an untried one so it has nothing to do with generational finger pointing. Well when a Singapore Airlines crew attempted to take-off on a closed runway in Taipai (SQ006, 31 October 2000) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines_Flight_006)
there were reports of cabin crew unable to operate doors due to the deck angle and their diminutive size and strength, amongst other things...
Steven Courtney and John D. Wiggans, survivors of the crash, stated in a USA Today article that the staff were unable to help the passengers escape from the aircraft due to being frozen by fear and/or due to lack of competence in emergency procedures; Wiggans was seated in the upper deck business class area

If you travel on a train, in a packed carriage and in crashes and starts to burn, who will help get you out?

If you travel on a ferry, say Sydney harbour or even down to Tasmania, and the ship starts to go down, who will help you get out? Incidentally the local ferries do not even know who is on board, only total number.

If you are in a crowded cinema and it starts to burn who will get you out?

I ask these questions to play devils advocate and as these are questions I hear from the general public (friends at dinner etc) about why aviation is so different to other forms of mass transport.

As a pilot I take responsibility for getting myself out of a burning aircraft when I am paxing. I certainly do not rely on a twenty year old who has completed about three to five days of EPs training during their cabin crew groundschool.

[Lookleft]

Well Mr Beelzubub you must've been down to Georgia and been talking to the locals. As far as I am aware other modes of transport are not mandated to demonstrate an evacuation within a specific time period as aircraft are. On the ferry and on other water craft it is always stated that the crew will be assisting in any evacuation. Passengers are not required to look after themselves other than being familiar with the escape routes. They are not told to put a life jacket on and throw themselves over the side. So requiring passengers to operate emergency equipment on an aircraft is abrogating responsibility and I will state again that it is an unproven procedure. The example you give in the SQ incident suggests that the pax were still looking to the F/As for guidance and direction. It also highlights that the training should be more rigorous because the F/A is still responsible. I agree with you about not relying on a 20 yo to get you off but unfortunately airlines are only interested in churning through F/As and not considering experience to be of value.

[PeterTG]

My view is that if people who are disabled are placed in the exit rows they are a hazard as they can potentially block the exit. By disabled I mean obese drunk or otherwise compromised. Able bodied people should be in the exit row so that at the very least they can clear the area and at the best can actively help others to get out.:}
I think the problem has little to do with airline staff and much to do with the booking process - and a worrying thought as noted previously an extra $20 for the airline - that is a lot of muffin tops in the exit rows!:}

[Di_Vosh]

by the description it was a reasonable assumption that they were under the influence of something by their conduct

Are you serious??? :} :} :}

You're basing your argument on what someone else saw and then posted their interpretation of what they saw on an anonymous bulletin board?

Impressive :hmm:

[mickjoebill]

much better to have someone there than not

Why?

The chances of a person being incapacitated, by virtue of sitting in that row are not reduced. The seats have same crashworthiness as the rest of economy and they are not fitted with four point harnesses.

I'd prefer to see the exit row empty with no seat row, because it would allow those that do survive the hard landing a clearer run once they get to the exit.

If they are meant to be emergency exits why do we block it with +200kgs of flammable fatty tissue?



Mickjoebill

[CaptainMidnight]

I’ve always thought it would be a good thing if the airlines could run a real basic EP/famil for interested pax occasionally, to experience such things as how easy/difficult it is to open a OWE hatch, where to stow it and other useful such stuff. They are, after all being expected to perhaps sometime perform a serious function for the airline, and an emergency situation is not the best time to first experience something.

On completion of the famil an individual could be given an “endorsement” of sort to be reflected in their airline club membership profile, which could give them seating priority in the exit rows.

I’d rather have someone there who has a bit of familiarity with what's required .....

[The Green Goblin]

Personally I find it appalling that you can pay for the exit row, then as you paid the trolley dollies can be reluctant to remove you.

ABAs should be selected on checkin, or if it's automated, should ask a series of questions before "it" issues a boarding pass.

I'm surprised CASA has not cracked down on the practice as of yet.

I suppose there is only so many muffins the airlines can sell these days hey!

[C441]

Can someone remind me again why I had to be certified on the overwing exits on the 767?

Maybe its because I have a 1-in-a-brazilian chance of sitting there when I commute because the bloke who paid for that seat was a no-show.:rolleyes:

[sixtiesrelic]

C441! Boxes MUST be ticked!
If we don't take that seriously, why the tickers would be out of a job and then there's the government department in charge of thinking up more pages of boxes to be ticked that could go under. Think of the unemployment!
Friend of mine ... one of the poor buggers who has to get out of his jet after doing a charter and go through security with his bags before returning to the very same aeroplane to do a RPT flight next… got nobbled to do the required on line risk assessment course. He pointed out the stupidity of having to waste his time sitting in front of a computer and then completing the exam when his whole day at work is assessing risks and deciding on fuel loads, holding, alternates and all the other decisions a pilot makes as part of the job. Clerk couldn’t see what he was on about. He was required to do the course for his self improvement and he’d DO IT!
Another friend told me that the day everyone on the tarmac HAD to wear a high viz vest from now on or else! … a prettily attired pilot was wacked by a tug. So much for fluoro clothing reducing accidents.
Long live the do gooders.

[jportzer]

On Monday 8th August I flew BMI baby EDI-EMA as you have to pay extra for the emergency exits so they are rarely filled, after doors closed one of the PAX (not me) moved into an empty O/W exit seat only to be told by a FA that he had to get back to his alocated seat because as he had to pay extra for the seat it would be the same as if he had been moving to first class

I believe you will find that in Australia, the overwing exit rows must be occupied by at least four able-bodied persons (one for every window and aisle seat). If no one has paid the extra fee to sit there, the gate agents and/or cabin crew will look at the manifest and "upgrade" frequent fliers, tall people, whatever, to make sure these seats are filled. (This doesn't apply to exit rows in widebody jets that have cabin crew at every exit.) So maybe this country doesn't always have it all wrong?

[Blue Sky Baron]

I believe I read the other day that one of the concerns CASA has with Tiger is that the auto check-in allows unsuitable people to be placed in exit rows. My question is; why are they just concerned about Tiger and not everyone else?
BSB

[mickjoebill]

If no one has paid the extra fee to sit there, the gate agents and/or cabin crew will look at the manifest and "upgrade" frequent fliers, tall people, whatever, to make sure these seats are filled.

For light relief....
As I understand it if one feels "unable or unwilling" to operate emergency exit then they "must inform cabin staff".

So if the entire cabin wanted to screw the crew of a particular flight (lets say they have pushed back and are sitting on the ground for 2 hours in high temperatures) they could organise themselves (!) and refuse to sit in an exit row.

Aircraft would be forced to return to gate with zero consequences for passengers?


Mickjoebill

[Lookleft]

That would be assuming that the entire cabin were capable of organising themselves (ever watched a plane load disembarking) as a single cohesive group.

[psycho joe]

I believe I read the other day that one of the concerns CASA has with Tiger is that the auto check-in allows unsuitable people to be placed in exit rows. My question is; why are they just concerned about Tiger and not everyone else?


Cos Tiger passengers have a greater chance of needing to use them. :E

[bubblyguy]

Just to let you know Virgin puts its paxing crew in the exit rows.

Obviously they are the best people on the aircraft as passengers to be in the exit row.

Also Virgin do not allow online, mobile or kiosk check-in to exit rows. All guests that have booked the exit row are checked and asked the required question on whether they are fit and willing and it also allows the agent at check in to look at them and ensure there are no issues (eg. broken arm/leg, requiring oxygen during flight, non-English speaker etc etc etc).

I have kicked many people out of the exit row, especially on landing after we find they have had a whole litre of duty free alcohol during the flight. Don't care if people pay for it, they need to be with it and able to operate the exit. For those interested in a prepared evacuation all occupants of the exit row are re-briefed and it is checked each of them are still willing to sit there and operate the exit if required.

[Kelly Slater]

Don't Virgin refuse to put their paxing Pilots in emergency exit rows?

[sixtiesrelic]

Joe, When you've been round longer you'll note that CASA, the media and many other 'informed instrumentalities' are pretty much like some scrawny, midget, cowardly ,mongrel dogs that wait till the victim's being held down and THEN going in for their bite.
Perhaps Tiger was not right up to speed, but you can be sure they weren't as bad as made out when you look at the industry. The other airlines make the odd blunder but every time Tiger did something, the howling started. Poor old Qantas gets bashed all the time too along a different vein.
CASA is out there making a big show for the public to prove how they're watching. They’re the biggest cowardly curs of the lot.
Don’t believe me? Check out the operators they’ve hounded out of business over the years you’ve been flying.
It's the same with all the bulldust over asbestos. Just about every baby boomer and older played with fibro when they were kids. Chucked it in fires, made Frisbees and toys from it, helped fathers scrub the black mould off the fibro roof with a wire brush when the family could afford to paint it.
Hell we’re not dead… somehow cheated it.
Look up the net and you'll find that twenty eight times more people die from asbestos than from tobacco.
Where’s the dust suits and masks, the inspectors , the licence givers, the instructors for the courses for tobacco. The Government is going along with the hoo-har because they are being seen to do something… Collect the taxes and drop the unemployment numbers.
Don’t be one of the ‘well informed’ about Tiger. And for the record, I won’t fly on Tiger, for my own, perhaps ill judged and discriminatory reasons.

[mannej]

To the OP, I believe that you are misguided some what. I do agree that the Exit Row allocation is not always 100% appropriate.

However, is it Garuda policy to have a crew member on that seat during take off and landing? Musn't be as it never happened the last time I was on there. They had 3 guys pissed beyond belief who then left their seats for other seats.

It also does not take into account any thing that occurs in between those two flight phases. So not always ideal. As for the Red Roo (something going to happen etc etc), all people sitting in those rows must be checked off before they are allowed to board. Frequent Flyers may not like it, but I prefer it that way.

[NIK320]

JQ has gone down the same line.
Exit rows can only be checked in by airport staff.

[Tiger01]

Don't Virgin refuse to put their paxing Pilots in emergency exit rows? Since Borghetti started there have been changes to the staff and Duty travel seating policy. One of which included seating Paxing Tech / Cabin Crew into Exit rows wherever possible.

The old policy of not allowing paxing crew to sit in exits rows always used to annoy me, as the crew are the best people to have seated there !!!

[sixtiesrelic]

It's nice to see sense is starting to prevail. Seeing the Garuda crew beside the exits on four consecutive 737 flights made me think that 'there was some real common sense' ,especially from a mob who most love to sledge.
I'd not seen it before or after in the 'big three I travell with in Oz and listening to the cackeling from the row behind me a week or so ago cemeted.
KIMIR ! you mention Jogja. Blinkered view mate... there's a lot more that have blokes in the pointy end, than just the mob who wrecked the rice paddi. Pointy enders who suffer loss of face and don't do anything to fix the mess. The majority hold their hands out palms up and say their last words because they BELIEVE it's out of their hands.

[Kelly Slater]

Common sense and dignity really do appear to be on the up in Virgin if they are no longer treating paxing pilots with distain.

[Catwalk Dweller]

"Each generation is convinced that they were better than the next."

Presumably, this statement would include you as well? :)

[CelticRambler]

I’ve always thought it would be a good thing if the airlines could run a real basic EP/famil for interested pax occasionally, to experience such things as how easy/difficult it is to open a OWE hatch, where to stow it and other useful such stuff. They are, after all being expected to perhaps sometime perform a serious function for the airline, and an emergency situation is not the best time to first experience something.

On the cards; just waiting for various green lights ... ;)

[training wheels]

It's nice to see sense is starting to prevail. Seeing the Garuda crew beside the exits on four consecutive 737 flights made me think that 'there was some real common sense' ,especially from a mob who most love to sledge.

Not just Garuda, but a number of airlines in Indonesia have the same policy of paxing crew sitting in the emergency exit row.