Simplest VFR route into Essendon

[Mimpe]

I'm planning Hunter Valley/Canberra/Essendon VFR in mid October.

Ive had a good look at the "flying around Melbourne" guide and it looks like the standard vfr entry is Kilmore Gap/Sugarloaf reservoir/Albert park is a reasonable entry route.

Does anyone fly vfr regularly in and out of Essendon? What are the simplest routes and clearances, given the origin and return is via Canberra?

[VH-XXX]

Also, consider using no VFR waypoints. Eg, plan direct and get CTA clearance out at 4500 or 8500 (whatever the relevant step is) and they will give you an appropriate track or vector.

Keep a VFR waypoint in mind though in case you come in at a lower altitude - others can advise on those, I usually go in direct within CTA from miles out so I've never required one.

[LexAir]

The answer to your question will depend upon the runway in use at Melbourne Airport(ML). If 27 is in use at ML you will not get a clearance direct from Kilmore to Essendon (EN) but you may get one at 1500 feet from Plenty Locator direct to EN. You will, most times, get a clearance at 1500 ft. from Albert Park, Station Pier or Westgate Bridge. Clearance via Rockbank is very rarely given. Clearances at higher altitudes can be requested from ML Centre but you should file a plan so Centre knows about you in advance.

Good luck with your flight.

[RogerRamjet01]

If you are coming in from the northeast.. either Kalkallo or Doncaster Shoppingtown.

Entry via Kalkallo can be a bit hit-&-miss as other have suggested depending on runway in use at ML. 1500 from Kalkallo to EN also can be a bit bumpy if theres any wind (also at fairly low altitude over urban area.. not my preferred place to be personally). Kalkallo would be the most direct entry point if you are coming in via kilmore gap due to low cloud base, however.

I'd suggest planning from ELW (assuming you are coming in via that direction) to DSN (Doncaster Shoppingtown). Or direct with radar vectors... but have the former as a plan in case vectors not avail.

[JMEN]

Just get a black commander, duck under the westgate up the river and ya in...

:D

[nitpicker330]

Don't forget your i Pad and Ozrunways!!

[Wally Mk2]

WX will be yr single biggest concern. NEVER rely or trust ML's WX if yr VFR,any time of the year. As has been mentioned if ML are using the west rwy (27) then from yr route inbound in CTA (NE) forget planning anything other than coming in from the South. I'm not too sure the route yr planning from CB but there's some ugly terrain between CB & EN consider going via MNG where it's more friendly for a VFR driver down the 'eastern' lane (which really isn't as such) skirting along ML's eastern CTA boundary (you can always ask for direct clearance on the day anyway from the VFR entry points mentioned elsewhere in this thread) planning to enter EN via Albert Park lake or Station pier or Westgate Bridge, the latter the most popular & easiest route & you get to see the city & the bay whilst yr at it:-) The southern entry points as mentioned here are the most 'guaranteed' The 'Kilmore Gap' is another ugly place to watch out for in bad WX also.

There's a lot of variables when flying into an unfamil AD VFR that lies close to a major Airport. Wx, traffic on the day due that wx & the time you intend to arrive. A fair amount of VFR traffic transits that region East of ML OCTA so be alert. At the very least ALWAYS have an escape plan re another AD to land at if you get caught. Be well informed about Lillydale (have that at the back of yr mind)as that's a good spot to lob if yr caught due wx somewhere in the Eastern region of ML.
Enjoy the ride, the guys in EN twr are very helpful & have been known to 'suggest' the best route inbound if you care to call them on 125.1 whilst out there East of Melb:ok:

Wmk2

[Mimpe]

thanks chaps.

I tend to plan entry in these situations that gives me maximum options relating to the lowest cloud base.Kallkallo looks like an airspace infrigement waiting to happen!

I cant see any route west of the city for a low cloud base situation, so my thinking was wagga..mangalore ..kilmore.. then sugarloaf reservoir followed by an entry requst from doncaster shops or albert park.
I always put in a flight plan ,so that will help.

I appreciate a higher altitude clearance from further out would be simple, but that plan seems subject to weather variation, and whatever rwy was being used at Melbourne.The last thing i'd want is to be asked by ATC to fly somewhere novel or unkown at the last minute.

It looks like you need a cloud base of 3400 to 3600 ft around kilmore...is that the usual safe level

[Mimpe]

Looking again, it seems a cloud base of 2700 feet or so might squeak it in past kilmore????

Im used to flying around Sydney so traffic is no problem, but i understand how busy the vfr route must be...so landing lights beacon and waggling wings with wife on the lookout.....

[UnderneathTheRadar]

I tend to plan entry in these situations that gives me maximum options relating to the lowest cloud base.Kallkallo looks like an airspace infrigement waiting to happen!

I cant see any route west of the city for a low cloud base situation, so my thinking was wagga..mangalore ..kilmore.. then sugarloaf reservoir followed by an entry requst from doncaster shops or albert park.
I always put in a flight plan ,so that will help.

I appreciate a higher altitude clearance from further out would be simple, but that plan seems subject to weather variation, and whatever rwy was being used at Melbourne.The last thing i'd want is to be asked by ATC to fly somewhere novel or unkown at the last minute.

It looks like you need a cloud base of 3400 to 3600 ft around kilmore...is that the usual safe level

Good on you for asking! I think your best approach is to have some 'expected' tracks and options but not to be so rigidly planned that you get thrown if something out of the blue happens.

Whilst Melbourne wx can be dodgy, if you can get out of CB then you can usually get into Melbourne.

Your idea of getting as high as you can then requesting clearance when approaching the 4500' (or even higher) steps should be your first option - if the weather permits you to be that high and they give it to you then life becomes easy. If the weather permits and they say no, don't be afraid to ask there and then where clearance would be available from - it's gets them thinking about you and an opportunity might just pop up.

Getting through the Kilmore gap can be a struggle if it's your first time and the cloud is low. I know those who think that following the lights of the cars on the highway is ok but practically at least 1000' of clearance between the ground and base would be recommended for first timers. Again, use ATC - as you approach Mangalore, if it looks iffy at all, ask ATC for the latest AWIS for the Kilmore Gap - it gives cloud base AND for any reports they can give you for other planes in the area. A controller who isn't flat out will often call up traffic they can see in the lane and ask for in-flight conditions for you.

There is an alternative route to the gap to the west. If at Mangalore (or preferably further north so you don't bust Puckapunyal restricted airspace), turn right and head for Kyneton and head south from there. The terrain looks not so flash but a south westerly flow causing low cloud in the gap will often see significantly higher bases west of Mount Macedon. If you get to Kyneton and aren't happy then Bendigo is close and a reasonable place to sit it out.

In all cases, ATC is your friend - they're not able to be as helpful as they used to be due to airspace changes and rule and stuff (gone are the days of VFR clearances over Melbourne) - but if you do the right thing by them, then they should be able to help. The right thing by them is:
- clear, confident, concise calls - i.e. not "ahhh Melbourne ahhhh centre ahhhh...." that clogs the airwaves and gives them no confidence. Remember, when in controlled airspace, if you deviate from a clearance and cause an incident they're likely to be stood down for at least for a while. 100% guarantee that the intial radio call that indicates you're in command and know what you're doing will get a much better response than one which makes the controller think you're trouble just waiting to occur.
- asking for help if you need it (i.e. if they do clear you somewhere unknown, don't just agree and then spend 10 minutes looking at a map trying to find it - try "Sorry, unfamiliar with the area, can you give me more information" - that will often get you a heading to follow.
- situational awareness - always keep track of where you are so that you can be ready for new tracking instructions etc. Also, if it all does go pear-shaped and you do bust CTA, pipe up straight away and say so.

Good luck!

UTR

[VH-XXX]

Post of the week, thanks UTR :D:D

[mcgrath50]

Great post UTR, a couple of my own observations to go along with it.

The Kilmore AWIS is at the North West end of the gap, usually the cloud is higher at that end than down near the sugerloaf/lillydale end, be careful.

Personally 2000-2500 AGL is usually fine to get along the gap, any less and you definitely need to be constantly thinking about escape plans back to Mangalore. Depending on where you are stopping (if at all) fuel may be become something to think about as well. Set check points from Mangalore all the way to Essendon in case (Mangalore, Lillydale and Moorabbin both have fuel).

Generally if you can see the outline of the city from kilmore, you can get through.

[VH-XXX]

I'd say that 60% - 70% of my trips into Melbourne from the north over the last 10 years have been VFR over the top and let down to the south of Dandenong. The cloud usually runs from Kilmore area to the Dandenong ranges. Keeping to the east of Lilydale I usually have 8,500 to 12,500ft of airspace to play with if required. Need to confirm blue sky at the destination if you're trying that one, by calling perhaps Lilydale, Tooradin, Tyabb etc. Bit of a pain to track back to Essendon but if you are able to let down a little south of Lilydale it's not that far out of the way.

[jas24zzk]

I'd Plan ELW Direct EN and try to stay CTA. Give them a call at ELW to see how your clearance is looking. They normally advise me to fly as planned and give a time to call again, or tell me plum, that clearance will not be available.

If they tell me no, then I head to the alternate plan of ELW-Glenburn (gap)-YCEM-DSN-EN. (kilmore isn't always the best option, and glenburn is little less known)

Failing that, you could get some of the locals to fly out and meet you on the deck at YMNG, or YMFD and give you the best goss for the day :ok:

Cheers
Jas

[Mimpe]

thanks chaps ..thats fantastic local knowledge.

I might just have two plans ready to on the ground at Yscb canberra, and if the weather is great , go CTA all the way, but if theres a lot of cloud 4000 feet or a bit lower then go sneaky low.

I will check what the quiet time is at Essendon on Fridays...I'm sure that will help getting a straightforward clearance closer to destination.

[JustJoinedToSearch]

It's definately best to plan CTA if you can, no harm in asking.
I was once coming in from the east and I got a clearance, just after I got inside the CTA the duty rwy at tulla was switched to 34. This created quite of a headache for the controller but he was nice enough to vector me around a little bit and get me to Essendon without having to spit me out:ok:. The tower guys at EN are also very good and will help you get in.

[training wheels]

If you wish to avoid the Kilmore Gap, the other alternative is to track from Mangalore to Kyneton, then abeam Bachus Marsh and from there to Point Cook and Williamstown to enter Essendon via West Gate Bridge. The tricky bit is around Kyenton where there is highish terrain .. from memory, there's about 1000 ft between the ground and CTA step around there. Once clear of that area, it's pretty much smooth sailing.

[thunderbird five]

1000 feet??????
What happened to the other SIX THOUSAND or so feet of OCTA above that??? It was there last week.

If you put a plan into the system, TELL ATC that on first contact. Don't wait for them to ask about it. Also tell them "unfamiliar with area" or "first time here" and that should enhance your clearance. If knocked back, persist, ask what variation they can give you, such as vectors. It'll be far easier for them to control and direct you than to have you lost and bust CTA.:ok:

[Mimpe]

ELW to EN direct if no cloud or few cloud under 5000 ft witha call to melbourne centre before the 4500 step sounds good.

Forcast base down to 3500 Ill activate the kilmore gap vfr route option before takeoff in YSCB... perhaps with an option to fly in via east route near mt macedon...anticipate cta entry call before donnington shops.

I have a NVFR rating,so If its SCT with tops below 6000 ft and base above 2800 or so, then non cta with a let down east /SExof moorrabin, or at least well south of Lillydale...entry albert park or west gate.

3 flight plans ....I'll activate my first choice depending on weather on the ground an hour before takeoff.

Its a Cessna 182 for an approx 2 hrs 40 mins flight, tanks 300 litres usable, giving about 90 mins spare fuel before the 45 mins reserve.

[VH-XXX]

Sounds like you have a well sorted plan there Mimpe. Enjoy glorious Melbouurne, somewhere around the 3rd - 5th best city in the world to live in.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Geez, it didn't seem so complicated when Chuckles and I went into Essendon in the big round-engined Cessna.

Dr :8

PS: Mind you, the "cone of silence" threw Chuckles for a bit! :E

[Frank Arouet]

Oh, the VAR cone of silence.

I still have the book.

Soon to be outmoded by ADSB as I read on the Aust Aviation Blog. Or as envisaged by the blob of blithering incompetence. Someone qualified should really say something here about 11/227372 and the 20nm radius.

Sorry Jabba, (someone will probably ring you), but "loudmouth" is a bit rich mate. You bet and lost.

[KeepItRolling]

All good advice on here, listen to Wally Mk2 especially as he knows how to get the best out of EN ATC:p

The earlier you contact ML Radar on 135.7 the better information you will get, if not a clearance then the best advice on how to get into EN.

It would also pay to ring the ASO at EN (number in ERSA) to arrange parking and advise them if you do not have an ASIC and will need an escort.

PM Me if you have any other questiopns and above all ENJOY the flight.

Regards,

KIR

[Homesick-Angel]

And if its a howling northerly and you decide to do the vfr route hang on!!:}

[John Eacott]

A simple thing, but don't forget the YMEN code 0100 on your transponder. I usually dial it up a few minutes before calling EN tower to give them a heads up, it seems to help.

[JustJoinedToSearch]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep
Another simple thing; Make sure you've tuned 125.1 and not 121.5 for the tower. Made that mistake before:O.

And good on you for asking and planning properly. We wouldn't have half the GA accidents we do if everyone had the same attitude.

Kudos:D

[Mimpe]

I have an ASIC, and I usualy ring the tower a day or two befote if I've never been before. In places like Alice Springs it really helps to know the major navigation points. We're in Melbourne for work and family.The food and cafes are great but I find the better end accomodation quite pricey. Some of the best golf courses in the world of course.

I love Melbourne..went down for the Avalon airshow this year and got a really sunurnt face. I got to tour over the Connie and all the other treats.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

contact ML Radar on 135.7

Don't call them Melbourne Radar - it makes them think you don't read NOTAMs!

UTR

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Better to track to a position about 6nm to the north west of Essendon.
Call YMEN tower as you cross the intersection of the two long black strips the run east-west and north-south, tell them your inbound and want a clearance. Also remind the tower guy that your transponder is not working, and will that be hassle when you wish to depart later in the day?
If the tower guy gets excited, ask him to speak s-l-o-w-l-y as you are dealing with a lot of other traffic that doesn't seem to be on the correct frequency.

[Chief galah]

CharlieLimaX-Ray

Hmmmm........so that's who it was

[Wally Mk2]

Hey 'CG' (Gold Coast:E) I would never say such a thing but I did always luv stirring you guys up in that lofty twr of yrs:E My fav saying was when you guys would say 'yr No 1'...........I would often respond.............'that's what my mun used to say':E
'Mimpe' BTW careful on tracking via the NW route (Via Kyenton )& then down via the 'western lane' (Rockbank then West Gate bridge etc)_as Mt Macedon near Woodend has claimed a few lives over the years. Trust me I'd like a dollar for every time I have heard a lighty fly low over the Macedon Ranges area (west of the Macedon western face) obviously in non VMC conditions, nasty WX here at times.


Wmk2, misses the good 'ole days:ok:

[Mimpe]

I got. the vibe that NW route in was generally not done.


CLXR..I'll do a Tony Jones on you and " take that as a comment!"........:D

[training wheels]

1000 feet??????
What happened to the other SIX THOUSAND or so feet of OCTA above that??? It was there last week.

It's been a long while since I've flown VFR down that way but if I remember correctly, from Woodend to Melton, the class C lower limit is 3500 ft and the terrain around Woodend is 2000 ft. And closer to Melton the C LL is 2500 ft. I don't have a Melbourne VTC handy, but do correct me if I'm wrong.

[VH-XXX]

This has become an interesting read that's for sure. What has to be one of the easiest class C airports to fly into now looks like getting into Dallas international. In fact Dallas probably seems easier after reading all this thread!

[training wheels]

This has become an interesting read that's for sure. What has to be one of the easiest class C airports to fly into now looks like getting into Dallas international. In fact Dallas probably seems easier after reading all this thread!

If you've flown in to Essendon many times, the of course it's easy. :) I don't find it difficult myself, but for someone who has never been there before, it can be challenging due to its close proximity with YMML.

[Mimpe]

Its alwaysthe same..first time is hardest.

I'm in and out or Canberra all the time andit seems easy. Even vfr round Sydney basin . But I've never been down to Vic so I just wanted a nice consensus from the locals!

I've even got a coastal route worked out Hunter Valley to YMEN....theres bound to be a day when the cloud base is 2200 all the way!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

AND....best advice....give the guys and girls a ring at EN TWR on morning of launch or even night before...a more helpful bunch you will not find....wellll...maybe Launy...they will set you right and will be most accommodating when do arrive:ok:

[djpil]

I found it much easier to fly into Addison near Dallas for the first time than my first few times into Essendon. Everyone is very helpful in the USA.

[Mimpe]

Thanks OZBus..will do. We'll pick a quiet arrival time and have a stop in Albury on the way.

It will be mid October in VH-CLQ ..a trusty old C182.. me, the wife (pursed lips and eyes occasionally closed) and dad, who used to fly as a ppl in the early 1950's.

[Biggles266]

135.7 Is now ML CENTRE, although they still refer to themselves as RADAR.

I did all my training out of YMEN and i still currently fly out of YMEN.

My suggestion is Log a Flight Plan, get the ATIS 119.8 @ seymour and Request Airways Clearance from ML CN on 135.7 at Kilmore and they will vector you all the way in, piece of cake!
However make sure you do log a plan because i quickly learnt that without it and especially if YMML active RWY was 27 'clearance was unavailable at this time' and ask you to track to Kalkalo or Yan Yean Resevoir.

But with a plan it was almost a given to get the clearance because they were already expecting you.
If it really comes to the crunch, don't 'request' airways clearance..... 'require' airways clearance and they must give it to you.....

Otherwise track around to West Gate Bridge or Albert Park Lake and you'll be laughing.

Much easier that way, hope it helps.

[peterc005]

Melbourne Basin Visual Pilot Guide:

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/melbourne.pdf

[Mimpe]

Thanks Biggles

The same types of advice come up, and it pretty much fits with the flying around Melbourne guide. The clearance request at Kilmore sounds pretty sensible.

[Mimpe]

Well it will be wagga for fuel, then mangalore and a call to Melbourne Radar/Centre at seymore with the YMEN Atis at hand. If that Doesnt get a clearance I've planned the inland route to sugarloaf thence Albert Park Lake to give the passengers the prime scenic view in .

I usually find planning the most robust route for all possiblilities of vfr flight weather causes the minimum hassle if theres cloud or rain.

Actually , we are going for a Geriatric Medicine conference and visit my dear Aunty!

[mcgrath50]

That would be the way I'd do it. Before you hit Albert Park Lake, make sure you know which Racecourse (Mooney Valley and Flemington) is which and how to identify Freeway Overpass with some good surrounding features. They are really the only traps I've found going in to Essendon for the first time. The only other tracking point you'll get I'm fairly sure is the MCG and if you can't recognise that... :=

:ok: