Which Chinese Airlines you like?

[flyinchina]

According to the statistics, there are around 20 Airlines in China are now hiring foreign captains, such a huge market!!!

Among the below Airlines, which do you prefer?

Air China - A330 Captain
Air China Cargo - B747-400 Captain & Non-type rated Captain
Beijing Capital Airlines - A320 Captain
Chengdu Airines - A320 Captain
Hainan Airlines - A330/B767 Captain
Juneyao Airlines - A320 Captain
Okay Airways - B737-300/NG Captain
SF Airlines - B757 Captain
Shenzhen Airlines - A320/B737NG Captain
Sichuan Airlines - A330 Captain
Spring Airlines - A320 Captain
Tianjin Airlines - A320 Captain
Xiamen Airlines - B737 EFIS & NG Captain
Yangtze River Express - B747-400 Captain

Please give some comment or post other jobs vacancies you know.
Thank you!

[eddie shoestring]

Try this

Pilot Jobs in China - China Aviation Recruitment (http://www.chinaaviationrecruitment.com/)

But then if you're in China, you should know this website already.

What is it that you REALLY want to know.....

[fatbus]

China Southern seems to be offering the best T and C's at the moment. 18K US China taxes paid. BNE,MEL and SYD bases

[Harlem]

Fatbus, I think that is for Aussies... or at least, those with the right to work and live in Australia.

[Tankengine]

Yes, for Aussies - but China base pays a little more!:rolleyes:

[bass]

Hey Guys, trying to get info from somebody currently at Hainan through VOR Holdings. I am interested in applying for the non-rated 330 Captain position. I was told that you have to fly as a First Officer for about 2 months. Is this the case or are you stuck as a F/O? Also, as far as being based outside of Beijing, is it actually so or is it advertised just to get you to come?

[Outtahere]

I'd check on the actual requirements before applying for the Hainan 320/ 330 upgrade. When China Southern tried it, Caac imposed a requirement of 500 hours domestic flying before release to long haul operations- something CS could not facilitate. The program was subsequently stillborn.

[USMCProbe]

Some airlines, like Hainan, you might find yourself jumpseating and flying as an FO for over 300 hours for a Type-rated Captain position. The 320-330 deal at Hainan is new, and there is a real good chance they haven't sorted out the details with their local CAAC. God knows what requirements the CAAC will impose upon you.
This place is chaos in a lot of ways. The way the CAAC deals with Air China in Beijing, the the rules they impose, are vastly different than a different arm of the CAAC will impose on a different airline somewhere else. HTF knows what you will go thru if you apply for this position. The management at Hainan probably doesn't know either, and they will be using the first few as guinea pigs to find out.

Good luck to those who try.

[ReverseFlight]

The way the CAAC deals with Air China in Beijing, the the rules they impose, are vastly different than a different arm of the CAAC will impose on a different airline somewhere else.
I am informed this happens with licence conversion as well.

[bass]

okay guys. Thanks for the info. Will let you know what happens

[flyinchina]

I'd check on the actual requirements before applying for the Hainan 320/ 330 upgrade. When China Southern tried it, Caac imposed a requirement of 500 hours domestic flying before release to long haul operations- something CS could not facilitate. The program was subsequently stillborn.

You are absolutely right, this plan is a trial, no successful case until now!!!

[Dan Winterland]

Forget Juneyao for now!

[squarecrow]

Whats up with Juneyao, I keep being told it pays loads etc etc.
Great place too work etc,

[flyinchina]

Juneyao always forget when to pay you. Even pay brokers.

DO NOT TRY Junyao Any more, you will be tragic~:p

[Dan Winterland]

My reference was to the fact they have been banned from hiring ex-pat captains temporarily after their little misdemeanour recently.

[Fareastdriver]

squarecrow

I started this thread less then a week ago. You have to go back more than the current page to find out about China.

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/462269-dont-look-job-juneyao.html

[expatdriver]

SHANGHAI - After being blamed for several accidents, foreign pilots are calling for the airline industry to adopt better safety systems.

In a recent notice, the Civil Aviation Administration of China's East China regional administration said it will strengthen its oversight of foreign pilots. The stricter supervision comes after a Korean captain from Juneyao Airlines last month refused to yield to a mayday call made by another plane.

Roy Weinberg, an US citizen who joined Spring Airlines a year ago, said the installation of safety management systems would help to prevent such incidents.

He said the Juneyao incident, rather than being a mishap that can be easily blamed on one person, showed that China should work to make airlines safer.

In Shanghai alone, 219 foreign pilots from six airline companies - China Eastern Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, Juneyao Airlines, Spring Airlines, China Cargo Airlines and Yangtze River Express - are to be subject to the heightened scrutiny before the end of October.

"They visited us earlier this month and were especially interested in knowing what standards we use in recruiting foreign pilots, whether we have guide booklets on management and how much (the pilots) follow the regulations of the Civil Aviation Administration of China," said Xiao Fei, who is with Spring Airlines' foreign pilot and student pilot management office.

Xiao said most Chinese airlines give foreign pilots no special privileges.

He said the pilots undergo tests every six months to gauge their knowledge of aviation theory and their flying ability. "But this time more background checks on foreign pilots are required," he said.

Earlier this month, the civil aviation administration sent a telegraph bearing the title "Notice on Strengthening the Management of Foreign Pilots" to the six airline companies. It, in part, said, "the Juneyao Airlines incident revealed that some foreign pilots are subject to serious lapses in their professional ethics and discipline. It also showed the flaws airline companies have in their hiring, training and managing of foreign pilots".

On Aug 13, the Korean captain on a Juneyao Airlines flight ignored instructions given by air-traffic controllers at the Shanghai Hongqiao airport and refused to give way to another aircraft that was trying to make an emergency landing. The captains of both airplanes claimed they were running out of fuel.

A subsequent investigation revealed, though, that the Juneyao Airlines plane had enough fuel to stay in the air for 42 minutes, while the other plane could only remain in flight for 18 minutes.

Zhang Qihuai, an aviation law expert with the Beijing-based Lan Peng Law Firm, wrote in a recent blog entry that poor discipline and disorderliness are common among foreign pilots.

"They were not the backbones of the airlines in their home countries and they came to China for better pay," said Zhang.

With the recent expansion of Chinese airlines, a shortage of capable pilots has become increasingly apparent. By 2015, China's aviation industry will be seeking to hire 18,000 pilots, according to China Business News.

China Daily

from this: Foreign pilots call for better safety systems|Society|chinadaily.com.cn (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-09/29/content_13814425.htm)

looks like things will not be pretty for expats in China in the future.

[A-3TWENTY]

Some airlines, like Hainan, you might find yourself jumpseating and flying as an FO for over 300 hours for a Type-rated Captain position. The 320-330 deal at Hainan is new, and there is a real good chance they haven't sorted out the details with their local CAAC. God knows what requirements the CAAC will impose upon you.
This place is chaos in a lot of ways. The way the CAAC deals with Air China in Beijing, the the rules they impose, are vastly different than a different arm of the CAAC will impose on a different airline somewhere else. HTF knows what you will go thru if you apply for this position. The management at Hainan probably doesn't know either, and they will be using the first few as guinea pigs to find out.

Good luck to those who try.

I`m in China and I fully agree with you.

I´d would never risk to loose my currency in the A320, to risk an A330 position.
For what I`ve been told , you will be stuck as FO for one year at half salary.They say if you don`t pass the upgrading for command (which includes oral tests),you will kindly offer you to stay as FO.

Remember what they need is english speaking people.Does not matter if you are Capt or FO.

Since the incident with Juneyao, life is becoming harder and harder to foreigners.
During these CAAC checks , many foreigners have been downgraded to FOs.

Anyway , if you want to give a try , choose GPS as your broker.Don`t go to Bfield.

A320

[PCLCREW]

Zhang Qihuai, an aviation law expert with the Beijing-based Lan Peng Law Firm, wrote in a recent blog entry that poor discipline and disorderliness are common among foreign pilots.

"They were not the backbones of the airlines in their home countries and they came to China for better pay," said Zhang.


China Air, Air China, China Southern crews get lost everyday in JFK... Maybe the US new papers should start writting articles everytime a Chinese crew cant taxi...

[B737NG]

It is not only on the Ground they get lost also in the Sky, when you hear a Controller talking to Chinese and Korean Crews he talk like to a second grader with one sentence at the time.

Spelling safety is one thing applying it another... time to move on East of the Ural Mountians and West side of the Pacific.

It is easy to spit on the Expat´s (Foreigner) that withdraw´s the focus from the own dirt.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[inbdspoilr]

I'd check on the actual requirements before applying for the Hainan 320/ 330 upgrade. When China Southern tried it, Caac imposed a requirement of 500 hours domestic flying before release to long haul operations- something CS could not facilitate. The program was subsequently stillborn.


This is true. Go and talk to some of the F/O's at Jade. Many leave because there are landing and hour restrictions to become a captain.

[CpNikos]

Any improvement concerning Juneyao status??

[pandapilot]

Don't go near Sichuan - crap schedules and flow control delay capital of China

[richard III]

Hi all, anybody in a B 777 contract with China Southern or Air China, are they worth the trouble? Interested in a decent paying comuting contract that allows staying based in SE Asia
Tks

[donpizmeov2]

lets refresh this thread ... any recent update ...

[C_Star]

Same request from me. Has anyone recently undergone the Air China 320-330 CCQ programme and is willing to share their experience?

[Dynasty Trash Hauler]

"poor discipline and disorderliness are common among foreign pilots."

Arghhh.....I just coughed my honey nut cheerios out my nose when I read this line.

I have spent many years of flying in China and other places in Asia and yet its the foreign pilots with "poor discipline and disorderliness"?????

Good grief, these people will NEVER move forward until they acknowledge the problem is deep within themselves. The most incompetent unprofessional non aviators I have ever come across.

[Karunch]

Most trying to leave after 12- 18 months of PEK basing that was only supposed to last 12 months, as was the 12 months of relief Capt duties. European basings constantly in jeopardy even for the rated guys so little chance of them happening for the non-rated guys. Upgrades to line Capt- who knows when, on the bottom of an indefinite queue below all the local Capts waiting for upgrade. Not to speak of the ongoing 'training' they have received from local training Capts.

Nothing that they weren't warned about before joining only now their situation is worse than when they joined. Over 18 months off their previous type, relief time only on the 330 & a type rating not recognised by any other country. Plus the accumulated fatigue of 1000 hrs/ year of east/ west longhaul.

Don't say you weren't warned.

[donpizmeov2]

Right ... I guess the quality of life really depends on your agency!
... so the question should be...

Which Chinese Airline Agency you like? ... and of course why?

[USMCProbe]

That is what I figured the Air China CCQ would be. The expat would be an underpaid seat warmer relief pilot.

[tcas69]

Maybe I just got lucky! My first chinese job was a 50% parttime contract with MU starting in CDG and ending in CDg after twelve days! The rest of the month belonged to me (2008/2009). Was too good to be true . Then had the chance to change to HU, frustrating five months until first flight , then full time ex PEK with ten free days in Europe. After 1 1/2 years a 70 percent parttime job with guaranteed 14 days off in Europe (excluding travel/DHC days). Was ok and would have gotten better. The two remaining chaps of my original 11 man group are on 70% respectively 50% parttime contract, but for me it was time to end my flying career. Not that I was treated unfairly but the commuting was taking its toll and the grey areas that you as Cpt were held responsible got too big for my liking. Money was 30% above my old salary and the scheduling was horror pure but only because we wanted our free days en bloc.
Can't really recommend any chinese job but all in all it worked out ok for me.
Good luck for anyone going there, not much chance to change their way of thinking and doing things( though not impossible) . Bring a lot of stamina ;-)

[donpizmeov2]

... ghost cities with ghost airports

If it's poor speculation how long will it last before explosion?


Chanos, Roach Discuss Outlook for China's Economy - YouTube

[The_Loner]

Be careful with those Chinese airlines. Scheduling is potentially dangerous. They will run a pilot to his absolute limits. They will reschedule you with wanton abandon too.

[A319rider]

Hi, anyone who recently joined or who is already working for a long time with Chinese carriers could share their experience? Especial interest on BCA and China Eastern A320 positions but any inside on other operations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[Rayoflight]

Spring is ok. They honor the contract and is a good outfit to work for.

[A319rider]

Thanks for the info Rayoflight. Do you have any inside on BCA, Juneyao, China eastern or any other?

[expatdriver]

Chinese line pilots in China Eastern hate expats. If you can take the constant threat of being retrenched or watching your back, then you can try.

[A319rider]

Well that doesn't sound like the kind of enviroment I would like to be working day in and day out. Any comments on BCA? They seem to have one of the best packages on offer (at least on paper).
Anyone working in china can clarify what's the deal with the minimum monthly flying hours? Do you get your salary cut if you don't reach that minimum?
Thanks to all.

[Rayoflight]

Packages in BCA, Westair and Spring are all quite similar depending on the commuting option you choose. Variations might be in the way the agencies have to advertise those contracts.

Your salary is based on a certain amount of hours per year. If you do not reach that amount of hours due to personal reasons (being sick 3 months, no show,...) then your salary is recalculated on a monthly hour prorata basis. I.e.: 80 hours per month, so they deduct let's say 150$ per hour not flown up to 80 hours.

Another important issue is your training pay, in some airlines this takes up to 60 days, in others 12 months, which is crazy and drives people really angry. Again, careful with the way agencies advertise contracts...

A319 rider check your PM

Cheers