[N]PPL(M) --> NPPL(SSEA) Training gap analysis

[Genghis the Engineer]

Before I start doing my own, can anybody point me at an existing training gap analysis - or even a tried and tested syllabus - for the bridging training from a UK microlight licence (select flavour of your choice: PPL(D), PPL(M), NPPL(M) - but assuming 3-axis without operating restrictions) to an NPPL(SSEA)?

Yes I have had a good search around, no I can't find anything yet.

I'll put my own together anyhow and run it past one or two experienced instructors before using it, but it would be really helpful to see anything already in use.

G

[Whopity]

I think the last training analysis was Smith-Barry in 1917! The simplest way to deal with any conversion is to work through the entire syllabus to ensure all items are covered. Some will require more time than others but you won't know which ones until you do it, and they won't always be the same for every conversion.

If we go back to the good old Systems Approach to Training of the mid seventies we would start with the Skill Test, find out what they can't do, and then teach them to do it.

[mrmum]

Genghis,

I'm just about to start doing that myself for someone at the end of the week, in his case it's actually NPPL(M) to SSEA, so I'd be interested to see what you come up with. There are, as you've probably seen, some minimum requirements in the NPPL cross-crediting document.
NPPL(Microlight) or UK PPL (Microlight) to NPPL (SSEA)
The holder of a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:
a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c Carry out such SSEA conversion training as is judged necessary by the FI(A) or CRI(SPA) conducting the training to achieve the required standard for the applicant to take the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on flexwing aircraft;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight;
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA.
However, I guess it's "c" specifically "conversion training as is judged necessary.....to achieve the required standard" that's the crux of your question. I was planning to do something similar to what Whopity suggests. Basically, do a GST, see how good (or bad) it is and then carry out further training on what exercises require it.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks for that MrMum, perhaps we should stay in touch - here or otherwise. My first is likely to be in September.

I've been jotting down some thoughts (and in context CPL and CRI notwithstanding, I still have rather more microlight than "group A" hours so hope I have a reasonable idea of what your average club microlight pilot is like ability-wise.) I've also flown with the chap previously in a microlight so have a reasonable idea of his strengths and weaknesses.

It seems likely to me that the main gaps in a microlight pilots knowledge compared to the NPPL(SSEA) pass standard will be:

(1) Use and nature of light aircraft printed checklists, and scheduling of checks within the typical light aeroplane circuit

(2) Use of a reliable POH, use of operating data within that POH, carrying out W&CG calculations

(3) Use of navaids: obvious ones being DI, VOR, NDB and ILS (Yes, I really did say DI, not found on pretty much any microlight where yacht compasses are more normal).

(4) Flight by reference to instruments (use of AI, use of pitot heat and confirming above IMC to get out of loss of VMC)

(5) Use of printed PLOG in some cases, and whizz-wheel in most cases, for flight planning.

(6) Use of carb heat and mixture

(7) RT about busy airports.


Stalling, PFLs, low-speed handling, EFATO should all be pretty sharp although some microlight pilots seldom or never have used flaps. Note that to most microlight pilots a PFL is flown to start of roundout, and a steep turn is 60 not 45 degrees.


I'm sketching out the following profile at the moment which looks likely to take about 6 hours (and doubtless will all get changed mid-stream):

(0) Prior groundschol, use of POH, checklist, instrument layout, couple of ciruits at the end

(1) Aircraft famil, aircraft and engine handling, checks, using (and not using) instruments

(2) Navex using instruments, bit of flying by reference to AI

(3) Circuits

(4) Stalling and emergencies

(5) Possibly borrow something that'll legally spin and do a spin famil if student wishes, failing that further stalling and emergencies.

(6) Mock GFT and NST.

G

[mrmum]

Those points of potential deficiencies are quite interesting and I hadn't considered some of them. I personally have no microlight experience at all, so it's useful to have someone with time on both to list the potential areas of weakness. I hadn't thought that microlights didn't have carb heat or mixture, what do they commonly have? Heated carb's/fuel injection?
I had thought that the requirement to only do the Aircraft(General) & PoF, was a little lax and was intending/expecting to have to spend time on perf. & planning, navigation and possibly aviation law, as I think I recall you saying in another thread there are some differences in law for microlights and SEP/SSEA.
I am wary of the potential problem with reverse control movements, my guy did his NPPL on weight-shift about 4 years ago, has about 60-70 hours TT, with the last 6 or so on 3-axis, but nothing for a couple of years. Any thoughts on whether this is likely to be an issue?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well it's clearly a legal issue, since to do the M->SSEA upgrade his needs a current licence, so he needs to revalidate (presumably by test) on 3-axis microlights before he can do his SSEA GST. Daft I know, but it's the rule and other people have been caught out on it. Best bet is that he revalidates at a convenient juncture in something like a Eurostar that'll be pretty similar to what I'd guess you're likely to be training him on. You might want to check that his 3-axis differences training was formally signed off as well, otherwise it'll probably vanish into some awful paperwork mess.

Engines
2-stroke Rotax engines have a sufficiently high air-mass throughput that they don't have any real tendency to ice. Where a carb heater is fitted on those it's normally electric - start engine, turn on, forget about it.

4-stroke Rotax engines usually have heated carbs, with a sort of shroud of hot coolant.

4-stroke Jabiru engines may occasionally have a "conventional" carb heater, or more likely an electric one, or sometimes none at-all.

Conventional wet-bowl carbs is most common, fuel injection very rare. A (very) few 912s have mixture control but that is only likely to be for tweaking cruise mixture and can't kill the engine. Rotax and Jabiru engines are invariably turned off on the ignition switch(es), not on the mixture, which can't. Pretty much all Rotax or Jabiru engines need use of a choke control to start, but the exact use of that can vary significantly between models.

Flexwings
In general, flexwing pilots seem to transfer to 3-axis quicker and easier than the reverse. Control reversal will probably not be an issue, but do be aware that he's used to flying on a foot-throttle, may well never have used flaps, and is used to what (to you) will be staggeringly short take-off times and distances so is probably not used to having to actively control the take-off down any kind of significant runway distance. He's probably never flown a yoke, but that's as trivial an issue as it is between yokes and sticks within SEP. Most flexwings and simpler 3-axis aeroplanes also generally only have a single trim condition (or at best a near-useless trimmer) and you maintain level flight by setting power and accepting the trim speed. So, the odds are that your man will have little instinct to trim.

Flexwings and older 3-axis microlights also have very low instrument panels, so pilots tend to have less of an instinct to pick a horizon reference than group A pilots will be trained to.

Checks
He's almost certainly learned to do all checks from mnemonics - which is good, but they'll be different mnemonics to the ones you're used to. Pre-take-off checks normally fully incorporate engine run-ups, he's probably not used to them being distinct and separate as they usually are in group A.

You may need a few more training hours than I will with my 400ish hrs 3-axis student!


Hope that helps a bit, I look forward to hearing how it goes.

G

[BEagle]

Well it's clearly a legal issue, since to do the M->SSEA upgrade his needs a current licence, so he needs to revalidate (presumably by test) on 3-axis microlights before he can do his SSEA GST. Daft I know, but it's the rule and other people have been caught out on it.

This is no longer the case. After consensus agreement within industry had been achieved, I changed it earlier this year. Please see: http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/PDFs/NPPL%20XC%20REV%2009.pdf

This means that, in the case of Microlight to SSEA, the applicant must have had a valid Microlight Class Rating in the 12 months before the date of application for the SSEA Class Rating. The exam must have been passed in the 24 months before the date of application for the SSEA Class Rating and the SSEA GST not more than 6 months before the date of application.

Incidentally the exam policy was agreed because practical 'differences' would be covered by practical training; however, AC Gen & PoF is a good check of essential knowledge, so that was the only one we deemed essential.

[mrmum]

Thanks for that Genghis, most useful. In my case AIUI he can renew his microlight class rating anytime before actually applying for his SSEA class rating. I'll check if his differences training on 3-axis was signed off when I see his logbook, if not I think I can do it on SEP under part c(3) of the cross-crediting document.
BEagle, I wasn't meaning to be particularly critical of NPPL and the cross-crediting allowances. I believe they are generally sensible and realistic, but are also minimum requirements. I really appreciate having the NPPL and associated ratings as an option for customers, who may otherwise have given up or not bothered with flying in the first place.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I agree that the NPPL is a great facility and whilst one can quibble about bits of the procedures (let's face it, what system is got right first time - and as BEagle says - they found a problem, and reached a consensus on how to fix it; doubtless they'll do that again with other snags in the future), the UK GA scene would be far less well off without it.

I also like that it has very much become a qualification assessed primarily by competence rather than timeserved bundles of hours. This, in my opinion, should apply to almost all flying licences.

As a new JAR instructor with a lot of microlight experience, I've every hope of doing a few of these NPPL conversions in both directions, and look forward to doing them. Hopefully it can open up a lot more affordable fun for many pilots - which is what light aviation is supposed to be about after all.

G

[mrmum]

Genghis
How far off base was I with my thoughts of how i'd get this done:ugh:I didn't get started until this month and have done over half a dozen flights now, had to abandon my initial idea after about 10 minutes.
I've had to go right back to basics and do the elementary exercises pretty much in full. Lots of work needed on selecting/holding attitudes and trimming as you suggested there might be.
Control reversal hasn't been a problem, except when he's looking inside and likes to try and roll the horizon to the aircraft, we've ended up in some quite interesting attitudes. He's really enamoured with all the instruments & radios and would stare at/fiddle with them all flight if I'd let him. Don't think I'll ever dare show him a moving map GPS;)
It's starting to come together a bit better now and we're getting into circuits, however I don't actually think we're going to save much time compared to the actual 32 hour course minimum, there's still the benefit of theory exam credit though.
I do feel that most of this is down to the individual concerned, rather than the cross-crediting being unrealistic. I'm also just finishing off a couple of BGA pilots converting to NPPL (SSEA) and they've both done it within a hour of the minimum requirements.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Genghis
How far off base was I with my thoughts of how i'd get this done:ugh:I didn't get started until this month and have done over half a dozen flights now, had to abandon my initial idea after about 10 minutes.
I've had to go right back to basics and do the elementary exercises pretty much in full. Lots of work needed on selecting/holding attitudes and trimming as you suggested there might be.
Control reversal hasn't been a problem, except when he's looking inside and likes to try and roll the horizon to the aircraft, we've ended up in some quite interesting attitudes. He's really enamoured with all the instruments & radios and would stare at/fiddle with them all flight if I'd let him. Don't think I'll ever dare show him a moving map GPS;)
It's starting to come together a bit better now and we're getting into circuits, however I don't actually think we're going to save much time compared to the actual 32 hour course minimum, there's still the benefit of theory exam credit though.
I do feel that most of this is down to the individual concerned, rather than the cross-crediting being unrealistic. I'm also just finishing off a couple of BGA pilots converting to NPPL (SSEA) and they've both done it within a hour of the minimum requirements.

I'm sure it's about individuals.

I also just started mine also, and he's learning rather faster than I expected; there's a hope I *might* get him done in 8 hours.

I did go through the list above with a much more experienced FI and it got a substantial redesign, then after we'd started, picked up that I'd not included unusual attitudes, so that needs adding in also. His biggest weakness as a glider and microlight pilot has been RT, despite holding an RTFL - he's just never used it in a more complex environment.

That said, onto nav will be interesting - double the speeds he's used to, and in straight lines, may be a shock to the system. He's told me that he believes that'll be his weakest point - we shall see. I am treating that as "learn from scratch".

G

[Duckeggblue]

(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;


How does this training get timed/recorded these days?
Talked to one instructor doing conversion training ( as for the OP) who had been taught to include the whole duration of the flight as SSAT when some stall spin work was done during the flight - irrespective of any other exercises carried out during the same flight. He said it was the same everywhere - well, everywhere he had worked anyway.
My log book (PPL, many moons ago) shows only 10 or 15 mins of the 60 min flight recorded as SSAT.
Have things changed? - everything else has so why not this I suppose. :sad:

[mrmum]

It's the "flight" time that counts (as defined in the ANO)

Same as for cross-country navigation and Instrument flying, you can count the whole "chock-to-chock" time towards the requirements, not just the airborne time spent doing the actual exercise, which is often significantly less.

Although, I believe the goalposts have recently been moved with regard specifically to the recording of IF for the IR, where IIRC the FTOs have been told taxi time can no longer be counted towards the required hours.

[Duckeggblue]

Thanks for that mrmum.

Whilst I'm sure that is correct, it doesn't seem ever so sensible - but perhaps it is just me.

[mrmum]

Have a look at this thread from earlier in the year http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/455491-nppl-licence-allowances-version-09-a.html

If you look at the SSEA syllabus on the NPPL website, you'll find this on page 1
SUMMARY OF MINIMUM TRAINING HOURS; DUAL: 22.00 hours to include: 1 hour instrument appreciation. This indicates that the IF time is to be one hour, we then may ask is this one hour of "flight" time, or one hour of actually flying on instruments? If we look at page 52, there is a breakdown of the 32 hours of the syllabus by exercise.
Phase 4
Ex No. Dual Tot Dual Tot D/S Details of Exercise

19. 1.00 21.00 30.00 Inst. appreciation

AOPA NPPL (SSEA) SYLLABUS V.4 8 July, 2011
This shows a total duration, ie "flight" time of one hour, rather than one hour of actual IF for exercise 19 and it's the same for exercise 18 cross-country. It doesn't mention SSAT specifically, but if it's that way for IF and Nav....

[Duckeggblue]

....so, the most ridiculous and cost effective (?) "within the rules" interpretation of


(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;


would be a 2 hour training flight with a stall and a quick wearing of the goggles?

And before anyone jumps on me from a great height, no, I am not inviting yet more restrictions and regulations.
But if the above training is considered important enough to safety to make it mandatory, shouldn't it be important enough to write words ensuring that it is done comprehensively?
Taking cover now.........

[Genghis the Engineer]

Possibly the system is assuming that a properly trained and competent instructor will ensure adequate training for that student, and then an examiner will confirm this?

G

[Duckeggblue]

Genghis,
Agreed - but where there is a quick fix, Instructors/training organisations can come under pressure to adopt them - or gain a reputation for screwing more money out of people.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Genghis,
Agreed - but where there is a quick fix, Instructors/training organisations can come under pressure to adopt them - or gain a reputation for screwing more money out of people.

In theory that quick fix exists already - in principle the NPPL conversion could be done in 3 hours only:2 hours stall/spin awareness and 1 hour instrument awareness.

Somehow, I doubt very much that anybody's come close to that, nor is very likely to.

G