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OFSO
7th Aug 2011, 21:37
Mrs OFSO is watching some program on TV, and a red-haired actress with a French accent has just uttered the words "..he shot him like a dog..."

Which set me thinking. In what way should one shoot a dog ? From where does this phrase derive, and are there equivalents in other languages ?

(No polar bear references, please, even though bears are distant cousins of dogs).

stuckgear
7th Aug 2011, 21:40
"..he shot him like a dog..."


how does a dog use a firearm without having opposable thumbs ?

birrddog
7th Aug 2011, 21:43
I believe the original phrase which keeps getting misquoted is "I'll hunt him down as if I were a dog" which then became hunt him like a dog; shoot him like a dog...

Or if your name is Biff, "I'll hunt him like a duck".

11Fan
7th Aug 2011, 22:38
Or if your name is Biff, "I'll hunt him like a duck".

Since you're new here, I'm gonna cut you a break... today. So, why don't you make like a tree and get outta here?

Parapunter
7th Aug 2011, 22:45
how does a dog use a firearm without having opposable thumbs ?
Like this.


Dog 'shoots' owner in New Zealand - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7886794/Dog-shoots-owner-in-New-Zealand.html)

mixture
7th Aug 2011, 22:46
I believe the original phrase which keeps getting misquoted is "I'll hunt him down as if I were a dog"

No, I think the saying "shot like a dog" has its own etymology in its own right.

A quick Google brought up the following for a start :

5 Apr. 1929 (Lincoln, Neb.) Evening State Journal "Beau Ideal" p. 14: "You [...] have taken French gold and would use it to bribe a servant of France [...] if I live, I will command the firing party that shall shoot you like the dog you are."

(Found here.... (http://ask.metafilter.com/14743/Etymology-of-the-phrase-hunt-you-down-like-a-dog))

birrddog
7th Aug 2011, 22:58
I must have a different google :p

There you go - learn something new every day!

mixture
7th Aug 2011, 23:03
I must have a different google

A poor tradesman always blames his tools..... :p
(another saying for you to investigate.... :cool:)

Anyhow.... back to the topic in question.....

A bit more Google suggests it originates in some manner from the days before you put your pets in quarantine / left with neighbours, and killed your pet before you left on a long trip.

Quand j'ai dû aller en Portugal, j'ai trouvé des objections à tuer chiens, mais que j'ai enfin vaincues pour ce même arrangement si convenable. [D'argenson, Mémoires, 1860, t. II, p. 299]

Loose translation being (I'm tired, so forgive any inaccuracies !) :

When I had to go to Portugal, I encountered objections against killing dogs, which I finally defeated in order to achieve the convenient arrangement.

Tankertrashnav
7th Aug 2011, 23:23
When I was a rockape officer in Aden in '66, we had a problem with stray dogs at Khormaksar. On one occasion the RAF Police had caught one and wanted a volunteer to take the dog out on the airfield and shoot it.

Not one of my 30 hard bitten rockapes, any one of whom would have thought nothing of sticking a couple of rounds of 7.62 through a local should the need arise, would volunteer, and the job was left to the snowdrops.

They'd have shot anyone like a dog, except a dog!

Shack37
7th Aug 2011, 23:24
If you were Elvis you could sing a song about it later and make lots of money.

mixture
7th Aug 2011, 23:34
Right... third time lucky, and I think I've got it this time (unless someone can do better than 11th March 1672 .... :cool:)

Me voilà bien chanceuse ! Hélas ! l'on dit bien vrai : Qui veut noyer son chien l'accuse de la rage [Molière - Les femmes savantes]

"How fortunate I am ! Alas ! What they say is quite true : Who wants to drown their dog accuses it of rage".

Otherwise interpreted... one is never short of a reason to get rid of a person you dislike.

Edit to add:
Apparently Molière merely translated it from its 13th century format....
"Qui bon chien veut tuer, la raige li met seure."

Parapunter
7th Aug 2011, 23:37
La Rage - Rabies = false accusation maybe already?

BrATCO
8th Aug 2011, 00:18
Dogs are generally badly treated in French expressions :

"Je suis malade comme un chien..." ("I'm sick like a dog", meaning I'm very sick because I drunk too much yesterday. So sick that I don't deserve respect)
"Espece de chien galeux !" ("You mangy dog", expression showing big disrespect for interlocutor)
Or simply : "Chienne !" ("b!tch", obvious)

The French expression for "He shot him like a dog" is (litterally) "Il l'a abattu comme un chien".
This expression means that someone killed a human with no more respect than if the victim had been an animal.

In French expressions, dogs are often down-dogs.

mixture
8th Aug 2011, 00:22
Or simply : "Chienne !" ("b!tch", obvious)

I was always under the impression that the more common, modern day translation of "bitch" (in its vulgar sense) began with an S..... :cool:

BrATCO
8th Aug 2011, 00:49
modern day translation of "bitch" (in its vulgar sense) began with an S..... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif

You're right, this translation to French works too.

There are plenty of expressions to let women be downdogs... maybe that's why they're always bitching. :p

11Fan
8th Aug 2011, 00:58
From long ago.....

b7SqwW9l3sc

My favorite book turned into a movie.

onetrack
8th Aug 2011, 04:18
In America, the shooting of dogs and suspected murderers goes hand-in-hand apparently... however in this case, it was a police dog! :ooh:

GRAPHIC!!!! Man and Dog get killed. Dont watch if you like dogs!!! | Spiked Nation (http://www.spikednation.com/evideo/graphic-man-and-dog-get-killed-dont-watch-if-you-dogs)

G-ZUZZ
8th Aug 2011, 05:51
the saying "shot like a dog" has its own etymology in its own right

In fact, the saying was originally, "Hung like a dog," and referred to those of greater than average scrotumular looseness.

parabellum
8th Aug 2011, 06:05
You sure about that G-ZUZZ? The Inuit/Eskimo people used to hang sick or rebellious dogs rather than shoot or stab them.

G-ZUZZ
8th Aug 2011, 06:09
Pretty sure. My granddad was a case in point. I hope it doesn't run in the family.

B Fraser
8th Aug 2011, 06:10
bears are distant cousins of dogs

It's difficult to picture one trying to hump the vicar's leg :bored:

onetrack
8th Aug 2011, 07:43
It appears that the use of "dog" as a derogatory phrase is well known in every culture, from places such as Korea right through to the Western, English-speaking countries... and of course, with the highest derogatory useage in Muslim countries.

Interestingly, it seems that the world can be divided sharply into dog-haters and dog-lovers. The ancient, legendary Germanic tribes were divided into the "Hundings" (the "dog-clan") and the "Wulfings" (the "wolf-clan") who were always feuding.
However, in that ancient era, the dog was regarded as a symbol of the warrior.
It wasn't until the Christians arrived, that the dog became associated with heathens, and therefore became a derogatory term. "Heathen hounds" was an early description of the pagan Vikings by the Christians who had to try and withstand their attacks.

In addition, the behaviour of female dogs on heat was applied to loose women, with "bitch" being an early favorite... with its early definition as a whore... whilst its more modern definition being altered somewhat to define an aggravating, annoying and unhappy woman.

Thus the word "dog" when applied in a derogatory tone, can mean anything from a snitch, to a scumbag, to someone with no morals or any of the loftier, edifying, human ethics and characteristics.

So, in this manner, the dog became the symbol of all that is low-life. The poor old dog hasn't really earned this symbolism... apart from regularly sniffing other dogs smelly bits, and copulating freely at will, in public.
This symbolism overlooks the faithfulness and usefulness of many dogs, and their worthy efforts at saving lives, finding drugs, finding lost people, and grabbing fleeing or aggressive felons.

I guess this means you're either a dog-lover or a dog-hater... but no matter what your culture... "he shot him like a dog" is readily understood, in nearly any culture.

RegDep
8th Aug 2011, 08:07
I thought it was "….mad dog", the only way you used to (or had to) treat a dog with rabies.

Cacophonix
8th Aug 2011, 09:41
Better a dog... saying "he shot him like a turtle" just wouldn't be right somehow!

Keef
8th Aug 2011, 09:49
My dog can't shoot anyway, so won't be shooting anyone "like a dog".

Storminnorm
8th Aug 2011, 11:05
I've had Turtle soup once.

Dunno if it was shot though.

OFSO
8th Aug 2011, 11:28
Mrs OFSO tells me it wasn't a Frenchwoman but a Bulgarianwoman, and she had black hair, not red. Ah well. Must stop getting out and about, stay at home, and watch more TV.

Thanks for the interesting cultural (and cultured) references. Next one:

The "Vache Espagnol" or Spanish Cow, which supposedly is a corruption of the "Basque Espagnol". No, not so interesting is it.

arcniz
8th Aug 2011, 11:45
I've had Turtle soup once.

One's encyclopadaedic old Larousse cook-book, with over a thousand large pages in very fine print, displays quite a number of recipes for dog.

Storminnorm
8th Aug 2011, 11:51
Never fancied dog.
The hair gets in your teeth I should think?

MagnusP
8th Aug 2011, 12:16
Never fancied dog.
The hair gets in your teeth I should think?

Same can happen with pussy, Mr Norm.

LapSap
8th Aug 2011, 12:39
And a good thing too . ..... oh sorry, thought this was the Tottenham thread.

BrATCO
8th Aug 2011, 13:17
"he shot him like a turtle"

You can't shoot a turtle !
One must use a drill... generally ends up in a mess...

BrATCO
8th Aug 2011, 13:24
Funny thing : the French traduction for "Pussy" is "Chatte" and all the meanings in one language work as well in the other.