Briton to Pilot First Commercial Space Flights

[Savoia]

A New Era in Commercial Passenger Travel will be led by British Pilot Capt. David Mackay

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/01/article-2021118-0B8F9B3B000005DC-269_634x286.jpg
Virgin Galactic's SS2 will become the first commercial passenger spacecraft in history


A British pilot is set to fulfil his childhood dream by becoming the first captain to fly tourists into space.

David Mackay, 53, will be the chief pilot for Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic when it begins the first sub-orbital space flights by 2013.
Over 400 passengers have already paid £125,000 for the privilege of a weightless flight 100km above the earth's surface.

The aspiring astronaut spent 16 years with the RAF before joining Virgin Atlantic in 1995, working as a captain with Virgin Atlantic.

Mr Mackay is one of just four pilots selected to become Virgin Galactic test pilots working with the development team at Virgin's Spaceport centre in the US.

The WhiteKnightTwo is a jet-powered cargo aircraft which will be used to launch the SpaceShipTwo spacecraft carrying commercial passengers.

It will take about an hour for the mothership to reach an altitude of 50,000ft before the spacecraft it is carrying is launched.

The spaceship will then fire its rocket motor and accelerate to 2,500mph in less than a minute as it leaves the atmosphere.

Describing what the passengers will experience, Mr Mackay said: 'It will be close to 4g acceleration which is a huge push in the back.

'So it will be a very exciting rocket ride, it will last about a minute during which they will be pinned back into their seats.

'There will be an increase in noise and vibration so they'll definitely know they are heading into space.' Once the ship is 360,000ft above the planet, passengers will be allowed to unstrap their seatbelts and experience weightlessness.

They will see the Earth from above before the craft makes its return in the three-and-a-half hours journey.

More (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2021118/David-Mackay-British-pilot-1st-captain-Richard-Bransons-space-tourism-flights.html)

[Reinhardt]

"Mr Mackay said his experience made him the obvious choice to be the first pilot to take tourists into space."

At least he has a good opinion of himself. Any idea what is his exact background in the RAF ?

[Agaricus bisporus]

Jesus! Great news on a great "first" and a Briton in the front seat and all you can do is snipe!

Pathertic miseryguts. Go away, and please stay away.

[SFCC]

Harrier.



Probably :}

[11Fan]

100km above the earth's surface.

If they can get 300km out of that, we'd like to borrow it since we'll be needing a lift to the International Space Station.

[ross_M]

Meal service? Gratis or do the PAX pay.

[Max Angle]

Wonder it they have had any applications from recently out of work space shuttle crews?.

[ehwatezedoing]

Harrier.



Probably :}

Almost true! ;)
Dave Mackay (http://www.northern-times.co.uk/News/Helmsdale-man-will-captain-worlds-first-commercial-space-flight-07072011.htm)
Mr Mackay joined the RAF in 1979 and spent 16 years with the service, half of that time as a test pilot.

He graduated with his test pilot wings from the French test pilots’ school, Ecole due Personnel Navigant d’Essais et de Reception (EPNER) in 1988 through an exchange with EPNER and the RAF’s Empire Test Pilot School.

His work included trials on the Harrier G7, before becoming Officer Commander of the Fast Jet Test Flight at Boscombe Down in 1992.

In 1995 he left his position as Principal Fixed Wing Tutor at the Empire Test Pilots’ School to join Virgin Atlantic. He became a captain on the Boeing 747 in 1999 and also flew the Airbus 340.

He has flown over 11,000 hours on over 100 different types of aircraft.

[Reinhardt]

Agaricus,
I was not sarcastic at all when asking what his background was in the RAF (and I'm not british)
Thank you to the colleague posting an answer just above :
so yes, fighter pilot, graduate of the FRENCH Test Pilot School, and then a full career in Flight Test at Boscombe Down (so a real test pilot at least this time) before embrassing a little bit of airline career, appropriately with Virgin. Nothing to add, well done fellow, and best wishes.

[Runway101]

Meal service? Gratis or do the PAX pay.

I don't think they want any stomach content on this trip. They may serve some booze on the way back though ;-)

[TckVs]

Good Luck to him

With that extra 4% he just got he must be quids in! :rolleyes:

BTW where can I bet this is all just spin? :E

11,000 hours does that mean he'll be able to cover all the planet? or just a small part of the ocean?


Answer on a post card :ugh:

[Mikehotel152]

I believe I met David in 2009. I must have his business card lying around somewhere at home (complete with Virgin Galactic logo if I recall correctly!).

If it's the same chap, then I can say that he was a really friendly, down to earth guy, and gave me a lot of encouragement with my own flying career. As far as I recall he also flies warbirds for the Shuttleworth Collection. And all-round nice guy. :ok:

[JMEN]

Admit it, given a chance any of us aviators would give the ole left one for the opportunity eh :E

[CargoMatatu]

So, when does this hallowed place get renamed "PPARune - Professional Pilots and Astronaughts Rumour Network"? ;)

[Montgolfier]

Admit it, given a chance any of us aviators would give the ole left one for the opportunity eh


Hmm...the Virgin SS2 isn't exactly going to voyage through space though, is it? It's not embarking on a continuing mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilisations, or even to boldly go where no man (oops, I mean no one, sorry stepwilk) has gone before.

It's more a sort of very limited and expensive mission, to briefly spend some time above the atmosphere, to seek out slightly new sensory experiences for jaded, thrill-seeking millionaires, to tentatively go part of the way to where lots of men have gone before....

I think because space is space people sometimes tend to overestimate how interesting it actually is. Did you know, for example, that there isn't a single good pony trekking trail in space? It's true! I looked it up. It also turns out there are no Italian restaurants, no golf courses, no beaches, and not a single place to get a beer. :ugh:

My advice to those "space tourists" (does it even count as tourism if you stick your head into a place for a few minutes?) would be to save themselves about £124,000 and go to Majorca.

[CargoMatatu]

No Golf and no BEER?

Right; that's off my "to do" list then.

[Hell Man]

My guess is that those who go for it will not be disappointed.

An ex-US Army colleague of mine managed to get aboard the SR-71 trainer. He told me it was a life-changing experience.

[routemargo]

Fantastic for the pilots and crew.

I'm no God botherer but... there's something obscene about people pi$$ing $125000 away on a fairground ride, when kids are drawing there last starving breath in East Africa.

Sorry to preach chaps.

[Otto Throttle]

But what about the hosties??? :}

[Cacophonix]

I trust the flight will stow a large compliment of sick bags... Weightless vomit (as many here will know) gets everywhere!

Well done to Captain Mackay though and good luck to the already (clearly) lucky passengers.

Caco

[in my last airline]

Do they have a P2F scheme? I'm there! How much would TR cost?









I'm joking calm down calm down (Liverpudlian accent)

[ReverseFlight]

'It will be close to 4g acceleration which is a huge push in the back.'Moral of the story : Don't take lawyers with previous back injuries, or else they will sue your pants off. Make them sign a declaration of no previous injuries. I am serious about this.

[Bus429]

"Captain?"
Still a commissioned officer?

[ap08]

I'm no God botherer but... there's something obscene about people pi$$ing $125000 away on a fairground ride, when kids are drawing there last starving breath in East Africa.Famine is the result of insane population growth rate in a region that is essentially a desert. The land cannot support this many people, hence the famine. So, if space tourists decided not to spend $125.000 on the tour and instead fight famine in east africa, - I seriously doubt they would be able to do anything productive and leading to a long-term solution, simply because nothing can be done.

[Al Murdoch]

PPRUNE never fails to surprise me...
This is a GREAT achievement. It might not be pushing the boundaries in NASA terms but it is a world first and in a world where we seem to be taking successive steps backwards, I applaud it.
He's a lucky bastard and I for one wish I had his job.

[Alexander de Meerkat]

I am a 'God-botherer' and have difficulty seeing that this enterprise is somehow less worthy than taking 150+ would-be drunks and drug takers to Ibiza on a Friday night - something I, alas, do regularly.

Regarding Dave Mackay, he is a magnificent guy who I came across in the RAF. He is pleasant, intelligent, professional and humble. His background is that he was a Harrier pilot before becoming a Test Pilot in the RAF, where he flew numerous RAF and ther nations' fast jets. From memory, after a tour on Fixed Wing Test Sqn at Boscombe, he became an ETPS tutor. He eventually left and joined Virgin where he eventually became a senior captain. As an aside, he is also one of the senior pilots of the Shuttleworth Collection where he flies numerous old warbirds from Huricanes to Sopwith Camels. He has been involved with the Virgin Galactica program from the beginning and is about as well-qualified as you could wish for the job. He has done numerous other things not mentioned here and, frankly, his likely success is great news for UK PLC and could not happen to a better guy. Well done and the very best of luck.

[Jamie-Southend]

Come on lets be patriotic on this one ! Im sure he will do a great job for our country and "fly the flag" .......oh that reminds me of a 70`s Ad, for some other airline :}

[Artificial Horizon]

This is awesome, he is a very lucky guy. Yes this may be $125,000 for a 'fair ground' ride at the moment, but the technology and lessons learned from this venture could well open up all sorts of opportunities in the private space flight sector.

Good on you Virgin, I hope it is a great success, and like above, I wish I had this job. :ok:

[windytoo]

Does anyone know whether S.J or A.H are still involved with the programme ?
If so, are they due to fly the second/third flights or will Dave Mackay be flying all the first few flights as PIC.

[Dunhovrin]

there's something obscene about people pi$$ing $125000 away on a fairground ride, when kids are drawing there last starving breath in East Africa.

It's like July 1969 all over again...

It was Biafra then, wasn't it? Or was it Newark?

[CargoOne]

Why so much buzz around $125k? That's a cost of a decent car in Europe or 1.5 decent cars in US. And there are tens of thousands driving on the streets around you, and surely many of us have one in garage. And keep changing them every few years. How does it compares to once-a-life experience of space flight for the same bucks?

I remember taking MIG25 fun ride to FL800 - our planet looks quite different from that altitude. One day when technology is mature I would definetely consider to try a space flight.

Famina, Afghan, Iraq, Obama, Gaddafi, Somali and all kind of other stuff is already dealed with from our taxes. Can we have a break and just enjoy the life a little bit?

[Kelly Hopper]

125k is about the same as you would pay for a max range one way charter flight in a Gulfstream. I don't see too many people wingeing about that!

For a trip into space it's cheap at 1/2 the price.

[BALLSOUT]

£125.000, I wouldn't go on the thing if they paid me that sort of cash.
I would want a lot of flights and safe returns under their belt, before I trust them with my life!
with all of the regulations we have to deal with, to fly the public on jet aircraft, how on earth do they get permision to take fare paying punters on something like this.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic that we are going to do something that puts nassa to shame, but I am still surprised they can take fare paying punters on it!
Before I get shot down in flames, I am not against this project, just amazed they get it past the CAA.

[ap08]

£125.000, I wouldn't go on the thing if they paid me that sort of cash.
I would want a lot of flights and safe returns under their belt, before I trust them with my life!
with all of the regulations we have to deal with, to fly the public on jet aircraft, how on earth do they get permision to take fare paying punters on something like this.
The public on jet aircraft is paying to get from point A to point B, in a safe and routine manner. The space tourist is looking for adventure, he is obviously aware of the risks and takes them willingly. There is nothing in common between him and the punters, and fortunately, whoever is giving the permission seems to realize the difference.

[Savoia]

.
Some VG facts:


Space trips with Virgin Galactic (http://www.virgingalactic.com/) are currently being retailed at USD 200,000 per passenger.
More than 400 passengers have already placed deposits some having paid the full fare in advance.
All of the existing air and spacecraft associated with VG have multiple names and designations:
The launchcraft which carries the spacecraft to launch height is known as WhiteKnightTwo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhiteKnightTwo) and also as the VMS (Virgin MotherShip) 'Eve'
The spacecraft known as SpaceShipTwo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_SpaceShipTwo), carries the Scaled Composites designator '339' and was named the VSS (Virgin SpaceShip) 'Enterprise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSS_Enterprise)'
Two WhiteKnight launchcraft and five SS2 spacecraft have been ordered by VG from The Spaceship Company (http://www.thespaceshipcompany.com/), a joint venture between the Virgin Group and Scaled Composites
The SS2 spaceship employs a 'feathering' system which basically creates additional drag during the spacecraft's re-entry:

Once out of the atmosphere the entire tail structure of the spaceship can be rotated upwards to about 65º. The feathered configuration allows an
automatic control of attitude with the fuselage parallel to the horizon. This creates very high drag as the spacecraft descends through the upper regions of the atmosphere.

The feather configuration is also highly stable, effectively giving the pilot a hands-free re-entry capability, something that has not been possible on spacecraft before, without resorting to computer controlled fly-by-wire systems. The combination of high drag and low weight (due to the very light materials used to construct the vehicle) mean that the skin temperature during re-entry stays very low compared to previous manned spacecraft and thermal protection systems such as heat shields or tiles are not needed. Following re-entry at around 70,000ft, the feather lowers to its original configuration and the spaceship becomes a glider for the flight back to the spaceport runway.


.. just amazed they get it past the CAA.
Not really that amazing. There is (according to the available publicity) a comprehensive test programme which will involve an as yet undisclosed number of sub-orbital test flights and re-entries to test the design and reliability of the SS2. The licencing authority is not the CAA but the FAA.

VG's home base Spaceport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceport_America) is in New Mexico (not far from the White Sands missile test centre) and all their air/spacecraft are US registered.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aO6FCyEwg94/TkI6z2tosSI/AAAAAAAAEYQ/o4XnoMeJ4ks/N339SS.jpg
The Spaceship Company's SS2 the 'VSS Enterprise' N339SS will be the first of five SS2's offering commercial passenger space flights

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c__-92rPZMI/TkI62VQXSVI/AAAAAAAAEYU/AbbrcX-47oY/s800/Spaceport.jpg
Virgin Galactic's New Mexico Spaceport which is nearing completion

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PQg2Nb5HEN8/TkI63c7KfdI/AAAAAAAAEYY/56P1Ofh2RYk/SS2%252520Feathered.jpg
The SS2's 'feathering' system for 'low speed' re-entry

I recall seeing a photo in the late 70's of a pair of Rutan VariEze (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_VariEze)'s with the caption "Looking more like interceptors from Star Wars .." Incredible to think that this home-build composites hobby junkie has ended-up leading the design and technology on the world's first commercial passenger service. Bravo! :D

.

[BALLSOUT]

That answers my question, I knew the CAA wouldn't be likely to authorise anything like this, but the FAA are far more relaxed.
Even most of the other JAA states have far more relaxed rules than the good old campaign against aviation here in the UK.

[twochai]

I assume it never reaches escape velocity, but does anyone know what peak velocity they plan to attain?

Max altitude??

[Nemrytter]

It never gets anywhere near escape velocity, or even orbital velocity! Vmax is somewhere around mach 6 I think.
Peak altitude for scientific flights is between 110-120km, not sure about the passenger flights - but I guess they're about the same.

[hunterboy]

I don't know what all the fuss is about...after all, it's hardly rocket science is it?

....oh wait....:}

[ap08]

Vmax is somewhere around mach 6 I think.
I think it's even less. X-15, the rocket powered experimental plane, barely reached Mach 6 despite trying hard to set altitude and speed records. Altitude record was about the same as here (slightly above 100km), but that plane looked like a missile, with very small wings and very fast reentry. Virgin Galactic doesn't look like a missile and has some special design to reduce speed on reentry, so it must be much slower.

[fmgc]

If I was a millionaire and could afford space tourism I would do it.

But I would want at least one lap of the earth, this doesn't really seem like proper space travel but I guess you have to start somewhere.

[Nemrytter]

ap08, you're correct. I looked up the right figure at work today and vmax is around mach 4 at altitude (1150m/s).
Still faster than anything else we can fly, though.:ok:

[Savoia]

.
The VGal publicity says: "Then the countdown to release, a brief moment of quiet before a wave of unimaginable but controlled power surges through the craft. You are instantly pinned back into your seat, overwhelmed but enthralled by the howl of the rocket motor and the eye-watering acceleration which, as you watch the read-out, has you traveling in a matter of seconds at almost 2500mph, over 3 times the speed of sound."

But I would want at least one lap of the earth, this doesn't really seem like proper space travel but I guess you have to start somewhere.
My sentiments entirely.
.

[filejw]

Wait a minute. How is Virgin getting away with this, isn't this a domestic flt seeing as it takes off and returns to New Mexico. And does this Capt Dave have a Green Card......LOL:rolleyes:

[Sky Slug]

Rumor has it that the Americans were a bit "too casual" in on "the radio" for Sir Richard's liking. :}

[stepwilk]

Fascinating that this 100-percent Burt Rutan (Scaled Composites) project, which apparently many people who read this forum weren't even aware of, is suddenly "Sir Richard Branson's spaceship." Like an investment bank buying logo space on a Formula One car, Branson has had no more to do with Rutan's air/spacecraft than Red Bull had to do with building the Vought Corsair.

A good PR campaign, though.

[Savoia]

Incredible to think that this home-build composites hobby junkie has ended-up leading the design and technology on the world's first commercial passenger space flights. Bravo! :D


Branson and Rutan have a longstanding association which became prominent when Richard formalised the funding behind the record-breaking Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Atlantic_GlobalFlyer).

Rutan doesn't strike me as the media-hungry type and Branson doesn't appear to want to stand in a shop loading an autoclave with panels of composite material. To me it seems like the ideal partnership!

lemonchiffon

[Left Coaster]

Actually...the Green Card statement is closer to the truth than might be imagined! The one guy no one has mentioned here who was picked to fly this little rocket long before your UK talent is a CANADIAN (with a Green Card) and flies for V USA...!!! Have a google for Virgin Galactic...there is a proud Canadian moment for you!:ok:

[Case One]

:rolleyes:

Congratulations Dave, at least one of us made it.

Reinhardt – nice, obviously your first assumption is that he wasn’t misquoted because that never happens. Or is English not your first language? If so please accept my apologies.

Max Angle – good question, they did advertise for them.

Montgolfier – fair point, but they have plans if this turns out to be profitable.

routemargo – is it lonely up on your pedestal? What system would you devise for deciding how private citizens are allowed to spend their hard earned money?

Otto Throttle – it was being talked about. Hopefully the VAA recruitment department has nothing to do with it.

Cacophonix – yep, its not going to be too glamorous in there.

SASKATOON9999 – it will have to last long enough for SRB to get bored with it and neglect his employees (again).

ReverseFlight – so are they.

Bus429 – who flies left seat of your aeroplanes?

Artificial Horizon – SS2 is a technological dead end in itself, but yes we can hope to get some good out of it. If profitable (and “safe”) private funding and innovation for “proper” space technology may be more forthcoming.

windytoo – not as far as I know unfortunately. Snookered by company and US Government BS.

BALLSOUT – Of course its not as safe as flying in a 747, thankfully there are braver souls around than you. I’m all for people being allowed to take risks rather than being nannied. Puts NASA to shame????? The CAA are not involved, they would have had to open a CAS department.

twochai – not even close to adding sufficient energy. Hence the technological dead end.

fmgc – I agree, but I’m not paying. From Dave’s point of view its got to beat flying “four engines for longhaul”.

filejw – don’t get me started.

stepwilk – indeed, Burt Rutan, one of the few remaining aerospace legends. SRB is no more just “buying logo space” than when British Airways buys a fleet of aeroplanes (mind you as long as it works the advertising for the empire must be a bonus). Obviously he is not an engineer – who claimed he was?

I really miss 411A, I wonder what his take on all this would have been?

[Trim Stab]

I hope he insists on having a chocolate tray on each flight. Otherwise old beardy will use it as an excuse to remove this indispensable crew perk from all other Virgin flights.

[stepwilk]

SRB is no more just “buying logo space” than when British Airways buys a fleet of aeroplanes (mind you as long as it works the advertising for the empire must be a bonus).

Branson most certainly didn't buy that air/spacecraft.

[filejw]

Case , 411A would have wished Captain Dave a good flt as do all of us I think. Yes the space ship thing is a bit of a put off to some with all the problems and troubles in the world. But in the end its an advancement for aviation and thats always a good thing. JW

[Biggles78]

Hmm...the Virgin SS2 isn't exactly going to voyage through space though, is it? It's not embarking on a continuing mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilisations, or even to boldly go where no man (oops, I mean no one, sorry stepwilk) has gone before.

It's more a sort of very limited and expensive mission, to briefly spend some time above the atmosphere, to seek out slightly new sensory experiences for jaded, thrill-seeking millionaires, to tentatively go part of the way to where lots of men have gone before....

I think because space is space people sometimes tend to overestimate how interesting it actually is. Did you know, for example, that there isn't a single good pony trekking trail in space? It's true! I looked it up. It also turns out there are no Italian restaurants, no golf courses, no beaches, and not a single place to get a beer. :ugh:

My advice to those "space tourists" (does it even count as tourism if you stick your head into a place for a few minutes?) would be to save themselves about £124,000 and go to Majorca.

Please do not take this as a narky reply but with the above attitude we may still think the Earth is round and not have the technology that we have today. Considering what it costs (opps, past tense cost) to launch the Space Shuttle or maybe better, a Mercury capsule) this is one small step for civilian space travel, one giant leap for commercial space travel.

My second biggest regret in life is that I will not get a chance to be a passenger in this primitive space machine. This reminds me of what flying may have been like when aeroplanes first started taking passengers. First the it was the mega rich, then the wealthy, then save all year (or more) and now half a days pay for a 3½ hour flight.

To butcher a famous quote: It is not even the beginning of the commercial space travel. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

[Nemrytter]

Considering what it costs (opps, past tense cost) to launch the Space Shuttle or maybe better, a Mercury capsule) this is one small step for civilian space travel, one giant leap for commercial space travel.
The problem is that you can't compare SS2 to the Space Shuttle, they're totally different machines for totally different jobs. It's like comparing a C172 to Concorde.

Hopefully this will be sucessful, and if it is then SS2 will be a massive boost to commercial (human) spaceflight - but we're still a very, very, long way from orbital spaceflight.

[wondering]

No disrespect for Rutan´s achievements (like the first unrefueled fligth around the earth) but IMHO this is hardly a 'Spaceship'. It´s not even close to reach orbit. Basically just scratching the upper atmosphere. Imagine this 'yoghurt pot' reentering the atmosphere from a real space flight. Now that would be interesting to watch :p

[westhawk]

At first glance, I wondered how this thread could possibly generate enough controversy to reach 3 pages. But after reading some of the responses I have my answer. :cool:

I'll add that I recently saw the Virgin Galactic "astronaut" job ad on one of those online aviation employment sites and had a good laugh imagining how many Walter Mitty CVs would appear in Sir Richard's inbox. :)

All humor aside, the job description and qualifications were better written than most I typically see. Those hired to do this job will be highly qualified. And being a pilot assigned to fly paying passengers above 100km must be an honor indeed. If I were a graduate of one of the recognized test pilot schools, I'd definitely apply.

I don't see any way to make such a venture profitable in the classic business sense, but perhaps that's not always the only goal behind Branson's actions.The man uses his money as he pleases. Profitability aside, I think there will be plenty of customers willing to pay the price for the thrill ride. Perhaps enough to fill hundreds of flights.

Virgin charters in the US likely has a client list sufficient to fill the seats for quite a while. Just looking at all the other members of the the target market for individual private jet ownership and charter world wide yields a respectable qualified customer base. One charter and management company where I worked considered this to be about the top 50,000 in individual net worth plus corporate entities. That's just the USA. All told, the world wide market has enough rich folks to fill the seats even if only one in a hundred of these highly elite would buy a ticket to ride. Many of them have kids and relatives too. As long as there are no disasters, they'll sell tickets.

I agree that from the standpoint of someone with an acute awareness of aviation and aerospace history, these flights aren't really very impressive in terms of pushing back the frontiers. And Rutan's rhetoric about NASA inefficiency aside, going to high altitude and gliding home on the cheap doesn't really capture the imagination like the accomplishments of yore. Personally, I'd much rather fly the X-15, 50-60 year old technology and all.

But even having said all that, I admire Burt Rutan's minimalist and cost effective yet innovative approach to design. Avoiding the thermal thicket by keeping the velocities down allows a plastic airplane to achieve altitudes normally attainable only by aircraft built with very expensive exotic materials and equipped with propulsion systems of much greater capacity. Emulating the air launch methodology of the 1940's X-plane seems anachronistic, but appears to address the limitations of the propulsion system and fuel capacity effectively enough to get the job done.

I wonder if Rutan and his merry band of innovators can find a way to overcome the thermodynamic and other challenges associated with orbital ops and re-entries less expensively than NASA. If so, perhaps the Virgin Galactic low Earth orbit hotel may one day be a possibility.

I wish them all the success in (and beyond) the world.

[Savoia]

Russians promise 'Space Hotel' within 5 years

Perhaps not wishing to be left behind in the development of private space travel a Russian company has promised to deliver a 'space hotel' by 2016.

http://i.cdn.cnngo.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_large/2011/08/18/space_hotel_main_image.jpg
Russia's space hotel, or Commercial Space Station, will be aimed at wealthy space tourists as well as corporate and industrial researchers


Russian firm Orbital Technologies plans to open the first space hotel in history in five year's time.

The space hotel, or "Commercial Space Station," as it's officially called, will float 250 miles above Earth.

The hotel can accommodate a maximum of seven people at a time.
To check in, tourists will have to undergo special training that can take up to three months, depending on the type of spacecraft they fly to the hotel.

The firm says that stays can range from three days to six months.

Spending your vacation in space will no doubt inspire travel stories like no other, but what's there to do once you're sealed in up there?

Not much, it turns out, apart from going online and watching TV.
"Most likely, there will be access to the Internet and other communications on the ground," says Sergey Kostenko, CEO of Orbital Technologies, the company constructing the station.

"Menus will be chosen before the clients are launched," Kostenko adds. "Food is prepared on the ground and shipped to space, dehydrated." No impulsive late-night snacking then.

There will be no shower, but you can clean yourself with wet wipes. Fun!
You can't seek solace in alcohol either, because it’s banned on board.
However, Kostenko says he hopes that the station can be a stopover for manned circumlunar flights, so making day trips to the far side of the moon and back may be a day-trip option.

Orbital Technologies plans to use Russian Soyuz and Progress spacecrafts to transport passengers and workers to the "great gig in the sky," although it does not rule out using other manned spacecraft made in the United States, Europe and China.

More (http://www.cnngo.com/explorations/life/russians-unveil-space-hotel-678591)

lemonchiffon

[Bobbsy]

...and, back at Virgin Galactic...

I just noticed a TV ad down here in Aus for the first time tonight. Virgin Finance is now running a contest whereby, if you buy insurance from them before the end of September, you can enter a contest where the first prize is a free trip on Virgin Galactic.

Doesn't mean a great deal...except this is the first time I've noticed promotion for the flights getting into the main stream. I suspect it must mean they're feeling close to having a product.

[Earl of Rochester]

I just noticed a TV ad down here in Aus for the first time tonight. Virgin Finance is now running a contest whereby, if you buy insurance from them before the end of September, you can enter a contest where the first prize is a free trip on Virgin Galactic.

Wonder if it will actually make anyone buy a policy!

Here is the SS2s intended flight profile:

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2008/07/28/virgin.galactic.gif

[Escape Path]

Hang on... it says crew of 2. Who is the other crew member?

And "pulling 6G on re-entry"? That sounds like fun! :E

I don't get that "feather" mode though

[BALLSOUT]

case One, well you do seem to be very self opinionated for someone aged only five! I don't think risk taking just for the fun of it can be classed as bravery. Bravery is something our boys and girls out in Afganistan are demonstrating every day, It's not something being demonstrated by a bunch of rich kids booking flights on Galactica!

[ap08]

However, Kostenko says he hopes that the station can be a stopover for manned circumlunar flights, so making day trips to the far side of the moon and back may be a day-trip option.
This guy must be crazy. It's one thing to take risks and suffer discomfort, but here we are talking about a MASSIVE radiation exposure. It's not going to happen.

[Nemrytter]

ap08, we're not talking about "massive" radiation exposure. The highest exposure on an apollo mission was just under 3 Rem - about the same as a pilot will experience in ten years.
So it's a relatively high dose of radiation, but not massive. If my memory is correct then the risk of getting cancer would be increased by no more than 0.4% as a result of that amount of radiation.

[ap08]

There are some problems with this 3 Rem number:
1. Rem is not the best unit to measure the effects of radiation exposure. The effect on the human body depends not just on the dose, but also on the type of radiation absorbed. During lunar missions, the astronaut is exposed to an unusual type of radiation - extremely energetic particles from outside the solar system, whose biological effect is not well known, because the only way to get exposed to such radiation on earth is to put your head in a particle accelerator. There are reports of flashes seen by astronauts with their eyes closed, the cause of such flashes is unknown but the most probable cause are those high energy cosmic rays. Radiation that is able to create flashes in your eyes, can't be good for your health...
2. The exact exposure is not predictable. An unexpected spike in solar activity can increase the exposure many times. If there were just a few Apollo missions and they reached 3 Rem - it is reasonable to assume that during hundreds or thousands of missions, the maximum exposure will be several times higher.
3. The effect of "small" radiation doses is the subject of debate. No one can say for certain that a certain dose is "safe".

EDIT: here is some evidence that the Apollo missions were not harmless for the astronauts health...
"At least 39 former astronauts have suffered some form of cataracts after flying in space, according to a 2001 study by Francis Cucinotta of NASA's Johnson Space Center (see journal references below). Of those 39 astronauts, 36 had flown on high-radiation missions such as the Apollo Moon landings. Some cataracts appeared as soon as 4 or 5 years after the mission, but others took 10 or more years to manifest."
Blinding Flashes - NASA Science (http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2004/22oct_cataracts/)

[stepwilk]

I don't get that "feather" mode though

The entire tail assembly--horizontal and dual vertical stabilizers--rotates up and forward into a very high-drag position, then relaxes into its normal position when the aircraft had "re-entered" and is at a safe airspeed. This negates the need for high-temp skins to survive atmospheric friction, since the aircraft never reaches high airspeeds.

The tail "feathering" has been a standard feature of free-flight model airplanes for decades, usually set off by a fused hold-down that burns through after a certain amount of time, to prevent the model from flying beyond a recoverable distance.

[Reinhardt]

6 g on re-entry ? that immediately made irrelevant the applications of hundreds of button-pushers and SOP callers...

[sTeamTraen]

Does anyone seriously think that the risk of cancer is even close to the risk of getting killed by the flight itself?

I very much doubt whether typical personal life insurance policies (which exclude "hazardous activities") would count this as anything but "hazardous".

I can also imagine, in the event of loss of the aircraft, some shareholders of the companies run by the wealthy individuals who will be on board, asking some questions about the company's risk policy.

[westhawk]

What surprises me is the velocities projected on that flight profile diagram posted above. Running mach 4 at various altitudes between 20 and 50 kilometers through an online atmospheric properties calculator, it appears that some parts of the vehicle skin may be exposed to total air temperatures exceeding 700 degrees C. Not your typical Long-EZ!

Edited to add that: Even if the ship is accelerated to mach 4 while level at 50,000' then zoom climbed to apogee, total air temp still exceeds 600 C.

[Wizofoz]

Does the craft have any form of reacrion controls, oris the whole thing ballistic once the conventional controls don't work?

[Nemrytter]

ap08, the radiation discussion is tangential - if you want to continue it then jetblast is probably the place to do so.

What surprises me is the velocities projected on that flight profile diagram posted above. Running mach 4 at various altitudes between 20 and 50 kilometers through an online atmospheric properties calculator, it appears that some parts of the vehicle skin may be exposed to total air temperatures exceeding 700 degrees C. Not your typical Long-EZ!
For the original spaceshipone the max velocity (about 960m/s) was at burnout, altitude about 55km. Peak heating was a little lower and the max temperature was just over 600C.

Does the craft have any form of reacrion controls, oris the whole thing ballistic once the conventional controls don't work?
Because it doesn't go much out of the atmosphere the conventional controls should be functional for most of the flight. It wil lhave a reaction control system fitted, though.

[Earl of Rochester]

Virgin's passenger spaceship completes first rocket test flight

A six-passenger spaceship owned by an offshoot of Virgin Group fired its rocket engine in flight for the first time on Monday, a key step toward the start of commercial service in about a year, Virgin owner Richard Branson said.

The powered test flight over California's Mojave Desert lasted 16 seconds and broke the sound barrier.

"It was stunning," Branson told Reuters. "You could see it very, very clearly. Putting the rocket and the spaceship together and seeing it perform safely, it was a critical day."

Virgin's passenger spaceship completes first rocket test flight | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/29/us-space-virgingroup-idUSBRE93S0X520130429)

Oxhkq4vVv_M

[ExXB]

Hate to divert the thread on a slight tangent however I have a question regarding the operation of a commercial flight within the US? Which I think this is.

If so will US DOT procedures (http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-policy/licensing/US-carriers) apply?

Thinking back to the Virgin America debacle it doesn't appear that Virgin Galactic qualifies to operate commerical flights in the US because its ownership is not by "US citizens":

(A) An individual who is a citizen of the United States; (B) A partnership each of whose partners is an individual who is a citizen of the United States; or (C) A corporation or association organized under the laws of the United States or a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States, of which the president and at least two-thirds of the board of directors and other managing officers are citizens of the United States, which is under the actual control of citizens of the United States, and in which at least 75 percent of the voting interest is owned or controlled by persons that are citizens of the United States.

VG appears to be a wholly owned subsiderary of Virgin Group.

[jackharr]

David Mackay does indeed seem to be highly qualified for this job. However, I have never heard his name in gliding circles.

I'm sure some gliding would be useful. He will need to get the landing right first time in SS2! My old gliding clubs at Tibenham or Cambridge might oblige. You never know, they might give him a free course - that would be wonderful publicity for the club concerned.

[Capt Pit Bull]

I don't know what all the fuss is about...after all, it's hardly rocket science is it?

....oh wait....

Rocket Science is easy, its just Newton's 3rd law.

Rocket engineering on the other hand.... that can be tricky.

[Case One]

David Mackay does indeed seem to be highly qualified for this job. However, I have never heard his name in gliding circles.

You won't find many space shuttle, X-15 or lifting body pilots well known in gliding circles either (granted there are a few).

I'm sure some gliding would be useful.

Not really, the "standard" high energy approach technique for landing low L/D aircraft has nothing in common with that for landing sailplanes. Practice flame-outs in fast jets (or PFLs in an Extra 300) are alot more useful.

He will need to get the landing right first time in SS2!

Dave has plenty of the above, I'm sure he'll cope.

My old gliding clubs at Tibenham or Cambridge might oblige. You never know, they might give him a free course - that would be wonderful publicity for the club concerned.

:rolleyes:

Sorry Jack.

[John Farley]

Sorry if it upsets any gliding fans but what SS2 requires at the end of each flight is nothing that is even vaguely related to the sport of gliding.

Many moons ago I did some low L/D operations as well as enjoyed a Discus (for example). The Discus needed some thought, aptitude and currency to be operated well (and what a delight it was). But low L/D is a totally different kettle of fish. It is actually easier to land from a glide angle of some 45deg and with a speed of 250kts that the Discus ever will be.

Why so? Because when you are pointing down at the ground at 45deg and a stabilised 250kt your impact point becomes pretty clear. So all you have to do is adjust the impact point to the beginning of the lead in lights, pull out of the dive at low level and drift down the lead in lights while the speed bleeds back and land on the numbers at 150-170 kt. No skill. Don’t worry about the wind either.

To the onlookers the pilot who keeps doing this spot landing day after day appears to be some sort of flying god. He is nothing of the sort because it is so easy.

To practice this sort of approach using a Hunter I liked 10,000 ft in the vicinity of the downwind leg, then with gear down and full flap dive at the flap limit of 250ft as described above. Absolute doddle.

Mind you getting the SS2 to the start of such a circuit is something else again – and also has nothing to do with the sport of gliding.