PDA

View Full Version : Reagan - one of the greats?


Parapunter
30th Jul 2011, 22:53
Reagan, not very introspective, yet very capable at exuding affection without letting people in, more intelligent than most people gave him credit for. Too old? Probably.

Killed Marxism-Leninism? definitely. Freed Europe? No doubt. Should have been impeached? Almost certainly over the Iran/Contra affair. He was certainly aware that he had committed a felony by being aware (at the very least) that Col. Ollie North was diverting surpluses from illegal arms sales to Iran to the Contras in Central America.

So on the one hand, the defining legacy is a president who saw an end to America's great enemy - 'Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall' - giving freedom and peace to the world and a man who was ultimately responsible for a criminal conspiracy that took place without doubt the awareness of not only his government but also of the man himself. I think his legacy is complicated, but that in the end, he was a great president in terms of his effect on the world stage.





I realise there are legions of US atcos who may feel violently opposed to this view...

con-pilot
30th Jul 2011, 23:09
I realise there are legions of US atcos who may feel violently opposed to this view...

Yes there are, but they signed and affirmed the same oath I did when I accepted employment with the United States Government. Then they were lead down the primrose path by their union leadership and paid the price. They really believed that Regan was bluffing; he was not.

As for Regan being guilty of impeachable offenses, most likely so has every other single President in history, FDR being at the top of the list, with Lincoln right behind him.

I liked Reagan, was he the best President we ever had? Debatable, but undeniably at the top of the list.

Parapunter
30th Jul 2011, 23:23
I like Reagan, but let me put it this way, FDR, Lincoln's and anyone else's dirty hands don't mitigate Reagan's, so the question remains.

One of the greats?

Tankertrashnav
30th Jul 2011, 23:30
I remember the treatment Reagan got at the hands of the liberal left media in the UK. Remember this was the heyday of smart-alec "alternative" comedians, who portrayed Reagan as a drivelling buffoon. The satirical programme "Spitting Image" give him particularly savage treatment. The fact that he had an obvious rapport with Mrs Thatcher made them redouble their efforts

It was therefore a surprise one day when I listened to a longish Reagan speech on the radio. I was so brainwashed by the satirical image that at first I couldn't work out was wrong, as I listened to an articulate well delivered speech, not the stuttering half-wit as usually depicted. I don't think I'm qualified to say how good a president he was, but he was one of the good guys in my book.

11Fan
30th Jul 2011, 23:47
Thanks Tankertrashnav,

I suspect there's many that miss him.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm107/APC11Fan/RWR.jpg

onetrack
31st Jul 2011, 01:58
Hey, the guy was an actor! What better trade to qualify you for great political leadership! :suspect:
It's all about image, being able to deliver your lines smoothly, and being able to say great things you don't personally believe in. :suspect:

I believe that Reagan was clever, articulate, and honest when it suited him... as most politicians are.
However, "Reaganomics" is a word that is coming back to haunt the U.S. Reagan believed in the right wing mantra that low taxes on the rich equals a booming economy, as the rich create jobs.

We now know that to be a totally false and illusive premise, as the rich merely transfer the jobs to whatever 3rd world country that suits them, that then enables them to increase their wealth substantially again.
The average American is the loser in this false premise.

Reagan tripled America's debt (a threefold increase between 1980 and 1988), and increased the wealth of the rich by removing windfall profits taxes.
Under Reagan, the rich got richer, the poor got poorer, and the nation went further into debt.
The average John Doe got shafted under Reaganomics, and he's just going to get the bill this week (August 2nd).

galaxy flyer
31st Jul 2011, 03:29
What's this " one of" stuff?

GF

fitliker
31st Jul 2011, 03:46
Is that a functioning urinal behind the grave marker ?

SASless
31st Jul 2011, 04:43
Killed Marxism-Leninism? definitely. Freed Europe? No doubt.

Well damn.....I guess some folks just cannot be satisfied!

How does one rate his predecessor then....one of the greats?

As we currently have the "greatest President of all time" (so sayeth the Main Stream Media).....I guess Ronaldo Magnus shall have to take second place to Barry Boy.

Now....someone please tell me what Barry Boy has done that equates to the above?

The Nobel Peace Prize? Bringing the Olympics home to the USA? Scoring a three over par? Setting up a Beer Summit? Bowing to the Saudi King? Giving an Ipod with his speeches to the Queen? Come on.....now there has to be something for you Bamster Boys to tell us about!

parabellum
31st Jul 2011, 04:52
Personally I liked Richard Nixon and I don't believe he was any more 'bent' than any other politician, just got caught!


It's all about image, being able to deliver your lines smoothly, and being able to say great things you don't personally believe in.


and just how much individual freedom does any POTUSA have to speak their mind rather than what his/her party or the Pentagon has briefed them?

Like This - Do That
31st Jul 2011, 05:25
The Left will never forgive him or credit him with any successes. Of note, he had a great sense of humour, (amongst other qualities).

In his gubernatorial limo one time at Berkely (IIRC) he was confronted with a raving screaming unkempt protestor yelling "WE ARE THE FUTURE". Then-Gov Reagan quickly scribbled a message on a piece of paper and held it to the window; it read "I'LL SELL MY BONDS":D

galaxy flyer
31st Jul 2011, 05:48
LT-DT

That's a timely story, they were the future, now the future arrived and those protesters f'd it real good.

GF

Slasher
31st Jul 2011, 06:00
onetrack the aim of any company is to create wealth NOT jobs.
Jobs are a means to create wealth. Pragmatically speaking, if
the product can maintain its integrity then it does make good
business sense to decrease local labour costs and to offshore
accordingly.

This differs from the fuzzy little Irishman at QF who wants to
offshore jobs overseas - the product's integrity will definitely
not be maintained. He is the "rich" that one should be aiming
one's socialist vent on, as he doesn't give a crap at all about
the product as long as he walks away with his untaxed bonus
payoff at the end of the day.

Not all costs associated with labour are simply wages - there
is payroll and a host of other taxes that socialist governments
in particular impose as its means of wealth redistribution, not
to mention its idealogical imposition of high personal taxation
on wealth creators. The US is just as guilty as Oz and Europe
in this regard.

Mach Turtle
31st Jul 2011, 06:32
Marxism-Leninism works only in theory; it would have collapsed in practice no matter what any president did.

The Soviet Union, specifically: The SSBN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_missile_submarine) killed that.

Parapunter
31st Jul 2011, 07:41
That did cross my mind MT, Reagan may have been in the right place at the right time, but he definitely saw an opportunity in Gorbachev.

Although he was implacably opposed to communism, he wasn't a military hot head. I think in two terms, he only intervened militarily three times - Lebanon, Grenada & Libya and he paid a high price for Lebanon.

However, the president is the ultimate upholder of law & order and if, as we now know, Reagan broke the law, traded arms for hostages in order to fund off the books foreign policy, tried to cover it up, knowingly & to a serious level, then America, as a nation of laws, is no longer a lawful nation under it's president.

That is the question I'm asking. Can he be one of the great presdents in light of this knowledge?

Mach Turtle
31st Jul 2011, 08:21
I do not believe that breaking the law, in itself, disqualifies a president from being great. As the regulation states, the pilot in command can do whatever he deems necessary to ensure the safe operation of his aircraft.

Reagan was not on the level of Lincoln, Jefferson, or FDR. He was a competent president who accomplished some good things, but he didn't change the world the way those others did.

Checkboard
31st Jul 2011, 10:32
Remember Reagan started his political life as a "Union" Leader.

Ronald Reagan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan#SAG_president_and_television)

... well, the SAG is a kind of union! ;)

603DX
31st Jul 2011, 10:58
All very serious and worthy contributions so far, and perhaps that is as it should be. But the irreverent thought occurs to me that the only way for him to go was up, after this ....

‪Bedtime For Bonzo‬‏ - YouTube

Vercingetorix
31st Jul 2011, 11:15
Did he not have an IQ of 95!

Fliegenmong
31st Jul 2011, 11:36
"that socialist governments in particular impose as its means of wealth redistribution"

Is the Leprechaun not using a capitalistic approach to wealth redistribution?? i.e. going the other way???:}:confused:

Rollingthunder
31st Jul 2011, 11:46
Yups.... CVN-76

http://acecombatskies.com/uploads/gallery/1217379709/gallery_5223_40_4066.jpg