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OFSO
27th Jul 2011, 12:42
This is normally a peaceful mountainside community: the ground slope ranges from 30 to 45 and the higher up you live the more you can see (and hear) the people in the villas below.

Around mid-July the tourists arrive, many are families with young children. Generally they are quite peaceful. French toddlers sip their half-and-half wine and water with lunch and drop off to sleep in the shade around the pool afterwards (as do their parents). Spanish kids don't wake up all day, being at the mini-discos from 1 a.m. German kids put on their uniforms and march quietly up and down all afternoon (unless they have Austrians living next door).

And then one day, usually a Sunday or a Monday, one goes out on one's terrace to hear horrendous screeching noises at a level of 95dB...could it be pigs being slaughtered ? Cats being castrated ? Hens de-egged ? No, the English have arrived and their lothsome brats are by their pool, screaming at each other full volume, playing violent games involving simulated attacks by low-flying aircraft, the use of flamethrowers, or terminal torture.

Their parents, seemingly oblivious, throw themselves down on the sunloungers and occupy themselves turning their bodies painfully luminous red under the Spanish sun - and ignoring the fact that their offspring are once again earning the soubriquet of being the most ill-behaved children in the EU.

Henry09
27th Jul 2011, 13:16
You mean the peace and quiet that is brought about by encouraging, no sorry making your young children alcohol dependent, who sleep not out of good behaviour but because of the alcohol induced drowsiness, of the wine/water. Or is it the peaceful Spanish children, sleeping all day when they should be up and active, not displaying good quiet behaviour but quiet because of the exhaustion associated with children staying up until 1am, 2am which as every Pilot will know means they are missing out on vital developmental sleep.

Sorry, give me a normal noisy child, enjoying the fun by the pool any day. I know it's a pain but you know, you used to be a kid once OFSO, and these people bring revenue to your valley. If you don't want them get the chamber of commerce to encourage everyone to refuse to book them.

There is a difference between a noisy child and a destructive, vandal. If the latter is the case then call the police, if the kids are just having fun then stop being a Victor Meldrew.;)

Parapunter
27th Jul 2011, 13:18
Another way of looking at this is with such delightful locals, they're unlikely to come back two years running!

Rwy in Sight
27th Jul 2011, 13:23
OFSO,

You forgot to take under consideration the Spanich toddlers and the Italina guys.


Rwy in Sight

Capetonian
27th Jul 2011, 13:39
The family who live opposite us have relatives who come from the UK in the summer (such as it is!). We dread it. The kids shriek and screech and scream and yell and bellow nonstop. They are far noisier and worse behaved than the locals.

I'm with OFSO on this, and on my increasingly rare trips to the UK I am appalled at the degradation in society and manners. Of course I don't blame the kids, I blame the parents.

maliyahsdad2
27th Jul 2011, 13:42
Noisey children don't equal less behaved, they might just be happier kids enjoying life.

goudie
27th Jul 2011, 13:49
I think kids are the same the world over. On holiday, letting off steam, why not?
I once stayed in some apartments in Mallorca. The Spanish kids there were on hols before the Brits came out and having had their afternoon siesta they were very noisy, late at night, round the pool.
Wasn't a problem, nice to hear kids enjoying themselves.

Ancient Observer
27th Jul 2011, 14:01
Stayed in a nice house in France once. A mate and I with our SWMBOs, and 4 children. Reasonably fun loving children.
An extremely rude and patronising woman next door (Hyacinth Bucket type with fake posh accent) informed us that we should not bring our children on holiday to France.

Her teens were quieter until about 11.00pm when their noisy music prevented us from quietly getting pissed.......at which point we commenced our nightly debate, spoken to be heard over the loud music, about said Hyacinth Bucket.

The French locals, however, made a very big fuss of our children.

CherokeeDriver
27th Jul 2011, 14:09
OFSO.

I am happy to report that London is now almost devoid of the indigonous working population (such that it is). It's now full of "Johnnie Foreigner" tourists taking up valuable space on the Underground Trains, Restaurant Tables and even the humble British Pubs. If you have a disliking of the younger British generation come over to London for the summer; there's not many Brits here at the moment!

On a more sensible note if my young kids didn't lark around when outdoors, by a swimming pool, in the sun, then I'd be very, very worried.

CD

G-CPTN
27th Jul 2011, 14:16
I have noticed a propensity among certain (English) youngsters for uncontrolled screaming whenever a degree of excitement arises.
This is perpetrated at gatherings such as where 'popstars' or even minor media 'personalities' appear.

I wouldn't have allowed our children to scream when playing (although I wouldn't have sought to curtail them expressing their delight short of screaming), so I don't know why other parent tolerate this.

Blacksheep
27th Jul 2011, 14:31
I don't mind noisy children, its noisy adults that annoy me.
Possibly the most annoying sound in the universe is that stupid Johnny Foreigner sports commentator who bellows his long, drawn out GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL! whenever one of the neanderthals on the pitch manages to kick a ball into the net.

OFSO
27th Jul 2011, 14:31
no sorry making your young children alcohol dependent

Guess you haven't been in the United Kingdom lately......it's not French and Italian children (who are introduced to wine in moderation early in life) who are "alcohol dependent".

because of the exhaustion associated with children staying up until 1am, 2am

Exhaustion ? At 1 am or 2am ? Perhaps you should experience Spanish society and understand what normal hours are here in Spain. Not unusual for the theatre or opera to start at 22:30 and finish at 01:30 and yes, we take children to classical events like this. Personally I find it a bit late, but friends with whom we dine usually start eating at 22:00 or 23:00 and believe it or not the children aren't sent off for "healthy sleep" but stay until we go.

Henry09
27th Jul 2011, 14:40
So you have English kids pi**ing you off in the afternoon, and we have Spanish kids, pi**ing us off after 11pm when they should be in bed.

Please do not start the patronising

Perhaps you should experience Spanish society and understand what normal hours are here in Spain.

You have no idea who I am or where I have lived, and as it happens I am very familiar with Spanish life and disagree with the late nights. My children also went to theatre and Opera, normally starting around 7.30.

Furthermore, don't try and suggest that its ok to ply your children with alcohol from the age of a toddler. It's not and it does lead to alcohol dependency. Why do you think the kids AND the parents are all asleep in the afternoon? They are all in their respective amounts, tanked up. The only reason the adults are not rolling drunk is that as they have been at it since the age of 3 they have somewhat of a resistance to the stuff. That isn't the excuse for giving kids wine and water.

You normally have some interesting threads OFSO but this is a complete nonsense.

Load Toad
27th Jul 2011, 14:43
During the day, when it aint school I like to see children playing, having fun & being kids. Soon they will grow up and become the bitter sad arsed moaning buggers we are. Give them their space.
The caveat - their parents should perhaps direct them as to where to play & make noise giving us grumpy old phuqers space and peace to reflect on how we've forgotten what it's like to not care & have no responsibilities.

vulcanised
27th Jul 2011, 14:44
Come and do some shopping in any UK supermarket round about now.

It will prepare you for your 'visitors'. Nearly flattened a small girl yesterday as she emerged at high speed from a display that hid her. Doubtless it would have been my fault if I hadn't managed to avoid her.

Load Toad
27th Jul 2011, 15:06
Do you write for the Daily Mail by any chance?

Did children not used to 'run out' - before - strewth when I was a lil' skool we had a kid knocked over running out from behind a car into the street and being warned not to run to the ice cream van was one of the joys of summer.

I think we need 'Danger Elderly Fuddy Duddy' signs 'round here.

OFSO
27th Jul 2011, 15:24
I was merely pointing out how loud English children are compared with foreign children. Now you've pointed out, Henry, that the latter are either alcoholic or exhausted, all is clear.

I've sent one of the boys around with a basket of fruit to the English renters so they don't feel affronted, and I resisted falling asleep after lunch in case it was mistaken for an alcohol-induced stupor.

Pip pip !

MadsDad
27th Jul 2011, 15:28
in case it was mistaken for an alcohol-induced stupor

Mistaken?????

It was the afternoon.

Henry09
27th Jul 2011, 15:34
OFSO

I was merely pointing out how loud English children are compared with foreign children. Now you've pointed out, Henry, that the latter are either alcoholic or exhausted, all is clear.

I didn't point anything out, you did all the pointing out!

Around mid-July the tourists arrive, many are families with young children. Generally they are quite peaceful. French toddlers sip their half-and-half wine and water with lunch and drop off to sleep in the shade around the pool afterwards (as do their parents). Spanish kids don't wake up all day, being at the mini-discos from 1 a.m.

The reason the English kids are loud in the afternoon, is they are having fun in accordance with a normal human circadian rythm and are neither suffering the effects of lunchtime alcohol or catching up from lost sleep the night before. It is all within your words, not mine.

sitigeltfel
27th Jul 2011, 16:03
I have to concur with OFSO on this. Certain nationalities have distinctive traits and his observations are roughly in parallel with mine.

The reason the locals follow the pattern of a snooze in the afternoon is because they recognise the stupidity of exposing themselves to the heat and sun between lunch and 5pm. Mad dogs and Englishmen, etc. Many of them will also work late into the evening, after their siesta, when things have cooled down, then have dinner with the whole family after sundown.

On the subject of alcohol, it is very unusual to see any locals drunk here. The area supposedly attracts the more cultured tourist and it is the braying Home Counties types and Scandinavians who are those most likely to bring attention to themselves. A bottle of wine is normally sufficient for two couples but the tourists do not seem to survive without one each. The local youngsters do not get themselves plastered and belligerent as is the norm in most UK cities over the weekends. The bars are mostly closed by 10pm and people will place more value on dinner with family and friends than raising hell in the high street. Despite what Henry09 says, his comments cannot be the result of observation. The fact that some children are given weak wine over dinner seems to instil a degree of respect for alcohol, this is borne out by never seeing any drunk, as is common in the UK. It is not normal for them be offered it at lunch, so his stupification comments fall flat.

Capetonian
27th Jul 2011, 16:09
I was composing a reply along the lines of what sitigeltfel has said. He beat me to it, I agree totally, and cannot improve or expand on what he has said.

Parapunter
27th Jul 2011, 16:10
I can.

Here's an observation. We have two voices in the crowd, hmm, three now, that belong to expats. The very rub of being an expat is being in thrall to somewhere other than whence you came, so much so, you upped sticks & went and lived there.

So it is reasonable to suppose that you may overlook the shortcomings of your own personal paradise whilst pointing out those of the etranger. It amounts to a form of self justification and over a matter so petty!

I've certainly witnessed many local French drunkenly brawling in the streets of a certain ski resort I patronise annually, does that make them savages or me an unrepresentative sample of one?

Henry09
27th Jul 2011, 16:12
It is not normal for them be offered it at lunch, so his stupification comments fall flat.

But OFSO said it was, not me.

My comments are based on OFSO's observations in his first post, and stop trying to make an excuse for giving small children alcohol. What happens with adults and later development is not of my concern here, it is what has been written by OFSO about children of differing nationalities. You make much of the family having dinner together, yet as a brit, I ALWAYS sit with my children and have dinner. The 4 year old will sit at the table and talk and never even think of getting out of her seat until we all do. She drinks fresh orange, water or soy milk, not a drop of alcohol to be seen and she is perfectly behaved, and loves laughing and making a noise whilst playing in the pool, always out of any direct sunlight. Some Europeans or pretend Europeans are so snobbish it is utterly untrue.

chksix
27th Jul 2011, 16:16
cds7lSHawAw

Swedes on holidays ;)

ShyTorque
27th Jul 2011, 16:52
Sounds like OFSO moved to the wrong place. He should move again to somewhere a little less plagued by children on holiday enjoying themselves.

I suggest the Sahara desert or northern Alaska.

tony draper
27th Jul 2011, 17:04
One has oft opined that evolution made a grave mistake in allowing the vocal chord of humans or indeed the ability to emit sounds of any kind to develop before the age of at least fifty.
:rolleyes:

Um... lifting...
27th Jul 2011, 17:10
Mr. D-
One has noticed that you have previously opined that the human machine is designed for an operational span of two score years.
Not that this is inherently a contradiction... rather, it sounds quite peaceful.

tony draper
27th Jul 2011, 17:17
One oft thinks we would have been a happier species had we remained in the trees Mr Um,because we seem to be making a right arse of this larger brain and opposable thumbs thingy.
:(

Nick Riviera
27th Jul 2011, 17:19
Well I am currently sitting beside the pool of our holiday villa in the Algarve and both of my sons are having great fun in said pool. They are being as noisy as I would expect any child to be in the same situation. They are not screaming constantly at the top of their voices, we wouldn't allow that anywhere, but they are behaving exactly as any normal healthy child of their age should be.

In a couple of hours they will be behaving themselves in a restaurant as opposed to some dreadful French children we had the misfortune to sit near last night. Funnily enough I find that the locals seem to love all children, loud or quiet. It is the expats that have an issue, but then I have often stated here how it seems to be that a large proportion of British people hate children. That's why we don't holiday at home, children are welcome wherever we go abroad.

Capetonian
27th Jul 2011, 17:26
a large proportion of British people hate children. That's why we don't holiday at home, children are welcome wherever we go abroad.

That's certainly true, many establishments in the UK look down their noses at couples with children as if it were only lowlife who reproduce. The result is that children are left to roam the streets and become semi-feral. In most of Europe they are integrated into family life and are this better behaved and balanced.

Krystal n chips
27th Jul 2011, 17:27
We had a day out today, darn Sarf, at the RAF Museum no less...well worth the trip apart from.....trying to look round the Sunderland ( one was wholly fascinated by the beast..:ok: ) only for moi, and numerous others to have to contend with three little rug brats who felt it was a great place to run up and down, shout and scream and generally ruin the walk through for everybody...one lady had enough and told them to stop..please...cue outburst of tears and tantrums....parents ?....nowhere in sight !....:mad:

OFSO
27th Jul 2011, 17:29
Having read the previous posts I now realise I was greviously wrong in asserting that English children were not as well behaved as the offspring of Johnny Foreigner, and would like to apologise for the statements I made to this effect.

Not only are all children here on holiday and hence should be allowed free expression for these all-too-few days that they may enjoy the sun before returning to the long hours forced on them at their school desks, but British children in particular are far better behaved than their acoholic sleep-deprived continental cousins, force-fed with a variety of strange liver-polluting drinks and made to stay up all night.

As Pope Gregory I said, "Non angli, sed angeli", and he (unlike myself ) was infallable.

Just off to lie down now.

Henry09
27th Jul 2011, 18:26
OFSO

NOw just when I thought you were returning back on track to that of a sensible person you end your fine opening gambit with

but British children in particular are far better behaved than their acoholic sleep-deprived continental cousins, force-fed with a variety of strange liver-polluting drinks and made to stay up all night.

YOU were the one who informed us all of french toddlers quietly sipping their half wine half water and then sleeping all afternoon, whilst the Spanish kids never made it out of bed during the day because they were in 'mini discos' till 1am and beyond.

As for being force-fed alcoholic drinks, what do you expect a toddler to say to his Father who gives him a drink of half wine/water? "sorry dad, no wine for me tonight, I don't want it everyday, I'll lay off it till the weekend"?

You open up the thread and then twist your statements as those initiated by others. Your sarcastic finish to your last post does you little favour at all. My how the mighty fall!

What conclusion does one draw about a healthy child who is up til 1am or 2am and then does not get out of bed the next day? Am I so wrong to suggest they are knackered? Could it just be OFSO.

What conclusion do we draw from being told by you that french toddlers quietly sip their wine and water with lunch as do their parents, and then tell us the whole family fall asleep for the afternoon. Whether you think it instils responsibility in a 3 year old to drink wine or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that alcohol should not be given to minors who are completely unable to decide if they should consume it or not. Am I really missing something here with your line of thinking?

Edited to add, and don't come back with that 'well it our culture' garbage, 'the french have always drunk wine with lunch'. Does that make it right to give it to young children. I was at a french airbase, ready to do some flying that afternoon with them. At lunch they all poured a large glass of red and went to pour me one. "No thanks said I, I am flying this afternoon', "well so are we" they said. Does that make it right and acceptable. Clearly since they have been given it since the pram instead of something non alcoholic they thought it was ok.

Henry09
27th Jul 2011, 18:45
Krystal 'n' Chips

We had a day out today, darn Sarf, at the RAF Museum no less...well worth the trip apart from.....trying to look round the Sunderland ( one was wholly fascinated by the beast.. ) only for moi, and numerous others to have to contend with three little rug brats who felt it was a great place to run up and down, shout and scream and generally ruin the walk through for everybody...one lady had enough and told them to stop..please...cue outburst of tears and tantrums....parents ?....nowhere in sight !....

Give the kids a break. The RAF Museum is specifically designed to encourage children to take an interest in aviation. They have all the educational area as I am sure you saw. Whilst irritating for you it was a fun experience for them. They are potentially the next generation of servicemen. I would have given anything to run through a Sunderland aged 7. The fact is for a child, the inside of a Sunderland is a great place to run up and down and make a noise.If they were badly behaved rather than just excited and noisy then sure, its the parents responsibility, and I would be the first to call the parents if I identified them and I would definitely tell them. If they burst into tears on being confronted, it doesn't sound as if they were hardened little thugs, just excited normal children.


Nick Riviera

I am totally envious!

ChrisVJ
27th Jul 2011, 22:18
I find, and I always did, that there is an acute difference between kids 'shouting' excitedly etc and kids 'screaming.' I have no problem with kids having fun and making a fair amount of noise, and having had six of them, (can't imagine why as I don't actually like kids all that much,) I am very aware of the difference.

RedhillPhil
27th Jul 2011, 22:49
What is it about little girls who just descend into hysterical squealing all the time? I've got two on one side and three on the other. Come the fine weather it's impossible to sit in the garden without the continuous squealing. Even sitting indoors I've got to close the windows.
A trip 'round Sainsbury's is no relief. There they are, shrieking and squealing, the parents seemingly oblivious to the noise.

G-CPTN
27th Jul 2011, 23:36
I agree with the two above contributions - I have no problem with enthusiastic voicing (even shouting) - it's the screaming and squealing that I disapprove and condemn.

http://www.pprune.org/6599339-post10.html

parabellum
27th Jul 2011, 23:57
The German kids marching up and down were probably looking for their towels that the Brit. kids had nicked!


I don't actually like kids all that much


Looks as though you liked your wife a lot though!;)

OllyBeak
28th Jul 2011, 01:30
I suspect it's all to do with the ending of capital punishment in schools...

Cacophonix
28th Jul 2011, 01:54
I suspect it's all to do with the ending of capital punishment in schools...

True, it really hasn't been the same since they banned weekly crucifixion and reduced hopping to 100 miles at a time ...

31388Nheuic

Children really are such oily ticks!

con-pilot
28th Jul 2011, 02:15
I suspect it's all to do with the ending of capital punishment in schools...

Uh, that would be corporal punishment.


Unless you want to hang all the little blighters. Then I think we need to talk. :uhoh:

Clare Prop
28th Jul 2011, 02:18
It's also Australian kids that shriek as if they are being dismembered with a chainsaw whenever they are near a swimming pool. Really great when you are on night shift and they live next door. They always set the dogs off barking then they grumble about that! If it's not the hysterical shrieking it's the F%&#(%& two stroke bike thing going round and round the place.
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
One of them has a drum kit which is very relaxing to listen to comapared to his sister's non stop piercing bloodcurdling banshee yell!
Glad I got that off my chest.

CYPR
28th Jul 2011, 03:16
An interesting and 'jaundiced' thread in my opinion depending on which side of the discussion one favours.

Over many years I have visited most but not all European countries both for business & pleasure. In my experience the examples of the stated behaviour can be found in every country including NA; the extent of the perceived 'bad' behaviour is no doubt influenced by the experiences and may I say the social norms of the observer.

And as an aside ShyTorque what has Alaska done to deserve this punishment? :rolleyes:

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 03:53
Krystal 'n chips wrote....We had a day out today, darn Sarf, at the RAF Museum no less...well worth the trip apart from.....trying to look round the Sunderland ( one was wholly fascinated by the beast.. ) only for moi, and numerous others to have to contend with three little rug brats who felt it was a great place to run up and down....

Henry 09 wrote.....Give the kids a break. The RAF Museum is specifically designed to encourage children to take an interest in aviation. :rolleyes:

Okay Henry. Next time you are around a vintage aircraft display, get down on your knees, then imagine a kid running at that height and decapitating themselves on some of those razor-sharp wing edges, or cracking their head open on a propeller, or climbing onto a fuselage then falling off and breaking their neck...or runnning into a glass display case and cutting their throat/wrist/femoral artery wide open.

Yeah, we want them to "take an interest in aviation" without killing or maiming them, to say nothing of the possible litigation from the parents of these little darlings which could destroy a non-profit organization. Then there would be nothing left to "take an interest in" for you, me, or anyone else!

Aside from that, we also like to preserve the integrity of the airplanes we have so religiously resurrected.

Krystal n chips
28th Jul 2011, 04:54
"Give the kids a break"

Henry, the same thought occurred to me and no doubt others at the time....the 3rd, 4th and 5th vertebrae to be more precise....

V2 OMG summates matters nicely...:ok:

I am all for encouraging kids to take an active interest in aviation...it's how most of us got involved in the first place, one way or another....but despite the large internal area of the type, the actual walking area is, for obvious reasons, limited.....and these kids were basically being a nuisance and obnoxious...like I said though, parents ?.....what parents and where were they?

Cacophonix
28th Jul 2011, 05:09
An interesting and 'jaundiced' thread in my opinion depending on which side of the discussion one favours


Perfectly reasonably jaundiced in my jaundiced opinion.

Just feel the repressed rage here. The symbolism is very revealing...;)

being dismembered with a chainsaw

Excellent notion.


then imagine a kid running at that height and decapitating themselves on some of those razor-sharp wing edges, or cracking their head open on a propeller, or climbing onto a fuselage then falling off and breaking their neck...or runnning into a glass display case and cutting their throat/wrist/femoral artery wide open



10/10 for originality. I particularly liked the wing edge decapitation angle!


Caco

Richo77
28th Jul 2011, 06:22
And not one of you nay-sayers ever ran, screamed, larked around a pool nor carried on like a pork chop whilst on holidays? Not the once? Typing with one hand must be tricky cause you're playing with yourself with the other!!

Kids run, play, jump, scream, yell, kick the living snot out of each other, slam into things, scream some more, and do lots and lots of loud and often dumb annoying things.

However they also read, draw, build things, create the most fascinating games and songs for themselves, pick each other up and comfort when something has been slammed into, and are capable of so much more.

It doesnt matter where they come from or where they go for their holidays. Give em a break, we were all that young and worry free once.

As for you Clare Prop, you said it yourself; you're on night shift. The rest of the neighbourhood is probably grateful they dont make all that noise (especially the drum kit) at night. You really cant blame them for it. But you can teach your dogs not to bark at the neighbours, i always do.

Henry09
28th Jul 2011, 08:04
V2 OMG

Okay Henry. Next time you are around a vintage aircraft display, get down on your knees, then imagine a kid running at that height and decapitating themselves on some of those razor-sharp wing edges, or cracking their head open on a propeller, or climbing onto a fuselage then falling off and breaking their neck...or runnning into a glass display case and cutting their throat/wrist/femoral artery wide open.

Yeah, we want them to "take an interest in aviation" without killing or maiming them, to say nothing of the possible litigation from the parents of these little darlings which could destroy a non-profit organization. Then there would be nothing left to "take an interest in" for you, me, or anyone else!

Aside from that, we also like to preserve the integrity of the airplanes we have so religiously resurrected.


Prior to your rather over stated paragraphs above, have you actually been there V2 OMG??

The kids do not run around the vintage aircraft displays with gay abandon and all aircraft are roped off, and the 'roping off' is adhered to and supervised by permanent members of staff. There are very few walk through displays and those that do exist have been prepared to comply with the very strict health and safety legislation that exists. So there are no dismembered children or injured children there and in the 8 years that one of my companies has been a sponsor there, and holding symposiums/meetings and aviation events there (to support the ongoing restoration of aircraft) I am unaware of any children that have been injured in such a situation. Every week day there are children bused in to have the RAF Museum experience, and they love it. The image you portray is in no way connected with reality, nor does it occur. There are areas for the kids to run and climb on, and that is where they do it.

Were most of the 'jaundiced people' here pushed out of the womb aged 50?

Cacophonix
28th Jul 2011, 09:36
Were most of the 'jaundiced people' here pushed out of the womb aged 50?


You make a good point Henry09.

I was looking at photographs of my son sitting happily in the cutaway cockpit of the Jet Provost in the RAF museum in Hendon. No blood or gore just a happy child enjoying a visit to a very good museum.

How time flies! He was six years old in the photographs then and now he is 21.

In the interim I have become a yellowing crinkly pushing the age you mention!

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 12:59
Prior to your rather over stated paragraphs above, have you actually been there.....

Henry09, you are being vague and generalizing when you refer to "there." I assume you mean the museum Krystal n chips recently visited.
No, I have not been "there," but am intimately involved with several vintage-flight organizations/museums via my line of work. They do not "rope off" their outdoor static display, not do any of them have specific areas devoted to a childrens' playground where they can "run and climb" on things. They do have a childrens' interactive area where they can engage themselves with arcade-style displays devoted to the theory of flight, sit in a flight simulator etc.

The image you portray is in no way connected with reality, nor does it occur.
Historically, such absolutions have tempted fate....with nefarious result.

Henry09
28th Jul 2011, 13:08
V2 OMG

How is it vague asking if you have been there? Krystal is talking about the RAF Museum, that is made quite clear. You have either been there or not. Is that vague? Yes or no, not even the hint of a grey area.

I would have thought that as you have not even been there and seen the layout and the facility then perhaps you would have thought it better to decline to comment further. After spending many millions on the facility, almost every single exhibit is inside, and it is all supervised. And everything is roped off.

Ancient Observer
28th Jul 2011, 13:10
Queen OFSO -

Your subjects are rebelling!!

More a pprune dawn rather than an Arab dawn.

I think they must have paid for arguments....


‪Argument Clinic‬‏ - YouTube

lexxity
28th Jul 2011, 13:15
If you don't allow children the chance to be around these vintage aircraft then who exactly is going to be there to fund the continued restoration in the future?

We've found that some train enthusiasts are the same. Yelling at kids to get out of the way of their camera shots, etc. Every Friday in Summer the Scarborough Flyer comes through Stalybridge station and most every Friday we go and wave to it. Every Friday there is some one yelling at my child to get out of the way. It's a public platform and we've as much right to be there as they have.

People like this are bad mannered and show a lack of respect for the child, their parents and others in the vicinity. Miserable old men with no rememberance of times past, when no doubt they were bunking off school watching steam trains and collecting numbers.

(Sit's back and prepares for flaming.)

chuks
28th Jul 2011, 13:21
I taught the dog to bark at the neighbors so that I didn't have to, Richo. I think you might be going about this the wrong way....

My kids never annoyed me with their joyous cries. It was other people's brats I sometimes wanted to strangle!

Henry09
28th Jul 2011, 13:21
lexxity

No flaming from here. I will sit back also with a bucket of water ;)

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 14:09
I do have a problem relating to children.

How was I to know that a "sweet child" such as this (wasn't mine!) might have some "nefarious" inclinations with a bowl of tomato-vodka linguine?

Thank cripes they don't serve linguine at the museum cafe!

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1942/12014112/21360717/397877175.jpg

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL1942/12014112/21360717/397877260.jpg

I will sit back also with a bucket of water..

You must be a proud parent.

Parapunter
28th Jul 2011, 14:17
I do have a problem relating to children.Well done. Only 11 steps to go.

Krystal n chips
28th Jul 2011, 16:52
Just to put the Sunderland in perspective....you enter via the nose hatch on the left and exit via the rear hatch on the right. There is a lot to see...but the walkway is narrow...thus these three little rug brats running in and out, both ways shouting and screaming....were more than a nuisance and distraction to visitors....but like I said, parents ?....what parents !?.

The kids on the various school trips however...noisy but controlled as indeed were the rest of those present

Lexxity....don't worry, the photogs are invariably obsessive dysfunctional human beings irrespective of the age group who they deem to be in their private space ...be the subject trains or aircraft....being polite to them and moving is invariably an exercise in futility...Mancunian diplomacy gets the message across...:E

I would add, there is a significant difference between those who are just plain enthusiasts / professionals...and those for whom this is their sole reason for breathing.

Henry09
28th Jul 2011, 17:23
Krystal

ust to put the Sunderland in perspective....you enter via the nose hatch on the left and exit via the rear hatch on the right. There is a lot to see...but the walkway is narrow...thus these three little rug brats running in and out, both ways shouting and screaming....were more than a nuisance and distraction to visitors....but like I said, parents ?....what parents !?.

So is your complaint about irresponsible parents? Because from your description I cannot for the life of me determine what behavioural characteristics these young children were displaying that are different to any young child. Can you remember just for a nano second how overwhelmingly exciting it would be as a child to climb up steps into an aircraft, a real aircraft and then climb out again. Peter Pan would be hard pushed to offer better entertainment for 30 mins. It seems the parents may have been irresponsible if they were indeed there, but the kids were not rug brats, they were just kids who had escaped the streets of London and were transported into a world they only see on the movies. Exciting? you betcha, likely to generate noise? you betcha! Should have brought an inner smile to your face, you betcha!

Flying Serpent
28th Jul 2011, 18:49
seems to me that there's two sides to this argument...

1) Those who enjoy the joyous energy, enthusiasm and excitement that children bring to society.

and

2) The miserable old s0ds!

:E

Henry09
28th Jul 2011, 18:50
Serpent

Hard ...but fair!;)

Cacophonix
28th Jul 2011, 18:58
The miserable old s0ds!
Bugger the kids, I am a miserable old sod! ;)

Caco

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 19:21
Boy, this amaurotic post-natalist culture is tiresome.

Or..... "I don't have to explain myself - I'm the parent!'

My personal favourite: "Be the kind of person you always wanted your parents to be."

Cacophonix
28th Jul 2011, 19:26
V2 - Kids ain't that bad!

Caco

tony draper
28th Jul 2011, 19:31
They are good for cleaning chimeys and scuttling about under the Looms down at Mill.
:E

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 19:42
Caco, I don't mind children (if they were/are well raised).

My problem is with insufferable parents who equate reproduction with the signing of the Magna Carta, finding a cure for cancer, or running a
3 1/2 minute mile.

Parapunter
28th Jul 2011, 19:44
Mine. Quick. bring the ASBO pad.:rolleyes:
‪Dancing Queen...cover‬‏ - YouTube

Cacophonix
28th Jul 2011, 19:54
The kids are all right...

rmowtt9vhLY

Love Caco

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 19:57
"Those with children not allowed in first class." :D

Would appreciate a list of airlines that follow this policy (for future reference).

Thanks muchly!

Gertrude the Wombat
28th Jul 2011, 21:12
Guess you haven't been in the United Kingdom lately......it's not French and Italian children (who are introduced to wine in moderation early in life) who are "alcohol dependent".
Baby not too good at getting to sleep.

Health vistor to mother: "How much are you drinking then?"

Mother, shocked: "Nothing at all."

Health visitor: "Ah, I think we might have found your problem. Maybe you should have a drink now and then."

Mother: "But won't the alcohol get into the breast milk?"

Health visitor, with weary sigh: "Yes dear, that's the whole point. You want it to go to sleep don't you?"

Whirlygig
28th Jul 2011, 21:30
Never really understood why some parents think that everyone must want to share and enjoy their children's behaviour as much as the parents do.

Some parents believe that it is their children's right to express themselves no matter what the situation or circumstance; other parents try to explain that some circumstances require different behaviours.

Cheers

Whirls

Tankertrashnav
28th Jul 2011, 21:36
Used to be a schoolteacher. At the beginning of term we had staff training "inset" days (although everyone still called them Baker Days). No kids in on those days. The next day they let the kids in and it was all downhill from then on :eek:

larssnowpharter
28th Jul 2011, 21:43
Mother: "But won't the alcohol get into the breast milk?"

And then there was gripe water which had alcohol in it.:eek::ok:

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 21:51
Never really understood why some parents think that everyone must want to share and enjoy their children's behaviour as much as the parents do.

Some parents believe that it is their children's right to express themselves no matter what the situation or circumstance; other parents try to explain that some circumstances require different behaviours.

Cheers

Whirls

Bravo! Whirls Bravo!

Cacophonix
28th Jul 2011, 21:53
It is driving from Quebec to Vancouver and not strangling one of them...

:-)

Caco

Or in my case all the way from Cape Town to Maputo!

ChristiaanJ
28th Jul 2011, 22:06
Excellent notion.
10/10 for originality. I particularly liked the wing edge decapitation angle!
Unfortunately... not enough museums have F-104s on display....

CJ

V2-OMG!
28th Jul 2011, 22:36
Cacophonix wrote....I particularly liked the wing edge decapitation angle!

Unfortunately... not enough museums have F-104s on display....


ChristiaanJ.....You sure know your aircraft. That is the exact airplane I was thinking of! Bravo! And it is most definitely not "roped off."

Krystal n chips
29th Jul 2011, 04:50
Henry.........:ugh::ugh:

" So is your complaint about irresponsible parents? Because from your description I cannot for the life of me determine what behavioural characteristics these young children were displaying that are different to any young child."

You are not by any chance a social worker are you ?....the characteristics displayed being those of obnoxious, uncontrolled little rug brats...


" Can you remember just for a nano second how overwhelmingly exciting it would be as a child to climb up steps into an aircraft, a real aircraft and then climb out again."

After 30mins plus of their antics......



"
Peter Pan would be hard pushed to offer better entertainment for 30 mins. It seems the parents may have been irresponsible if they were indeed there, but the kids were not rug brats, they were just kids who had escaped the streets of London and were transported into a world they only see on the movies."

A classical example of litotese there Henry....

And Hendon is, er, in London....not a deprived inner city area I grant you...but these kids were well dressed. Dickens must be your favourite author I assume ?



" Exciting? you betcha, likely to generate noise? you betcha! Should have brought an inner smile to your face, you betcha "

There is a small vice in a workshop area at the rear of the aircraft...lets see if you can make the connection between making noise, the brats in question...and the inner smile on my face you speak of.

Henry09
29th Jul 2011, 05:09
Krystal

No need for banging heads...how rude.

A classical example of litotese there Henry....

It's Litotes Krystal. If you are trying to impress Pruners it's always good to get it right, and the example you give is not a classic example of litotes at all.


And Hendon is, er, in London....not a deprived inner city area I grant you...but these kids were well dressed. Dickens must be your favourite author I assume ?

Do we prefer full postal addresses now rather than just name a city. You seem to think all the visitors to the Museum are from Hendon. Why the reference to Dickens? I presume it was autosuggestion while you were looking up Litotes on Wiki.

Your presumption of me being a social worker is not quite correct (that's litotes!).

Paracab
29th Jul 2011, 05:33
Personally I'm still reeling at finding out that children within a developed country are given alcohol by the people responsible for their safety and well being. How utterly bizarre. I'm sure that their immature livers love this!

In my line of work in England this finding this would earn a vulnerable child referral to the local social services.

Astonishing. One question: Why?

For the record, 'Because we do' doesn't cut it.

Krystal n chips
29th Jul 2011, 05:42
" Your presumption of me being a social worker is not quite correct"

Henry, given your obdurate response(s) so far ( and I thank you for the spelling correction, even if you are unable to understand the exemplification ) there is an adage in aviation " never assume, check"....I have....and you are.

You may have to think about this for some time...:E

Henry09
29th Jul 2011, 05:59
Krystal

On the contrary, the only person that could be accused of being obdurate is yourself, as you continue to display.


paracab

It is astonishing really, but the likes of OFSO will try and persuade you that by plying a toddler with half wine half water you instill in them a responsible drinking attitude. The mind boggles, as no doubt do the children's developing livers.

sitigeltfel
29th Jul 2011, 06:18
This thread has its own screaming kid :{

Henry09
29th Jul 2011, 06:29
This thread has its own screaming kid

How funny!

Capetonian
29th Jul 2011, 08:37
the likes of OFSO will try and persuade you that by plying a toddler with half wine half water you instill in them a responsible drinking attitude. The mind boggles, as no doubt do the children's developing livers.

Plying is a strong word and is not what was originally intended to be understood. The southern European attitude to drinking, which includes gently and responsibly initiating young people (not 'toddlers') to alcohol in the home, appears to work, as it is relatively rare to see hordes of rampaging drunken binge drinking yobs vomiting and sitting in piles of their own urine and faeces in European cities, whereas in the UK it is becoming more and more common.

Of course you do see it in European cities, but the performers are usually British or Scandinavian. (Now I will come under attack again by the Little Englanders for daring to once again criticise the UK.)

Henry09
29th Jul 2011, 09:02
Captonian

The southern European attitude to drinking, which includes gently and responsibly initiating young people (not 'toddlers') to alcohol in the home,

You're not getting it are you? It was OFSO that said toddlers, not me, and by all accounts from the first post he must be right as he is observing them out of his window. There is nothing gentle and responsible about giving 6 and 7 year olds alcohol, end of argument. Apart from many of the health issues, it is illegal, as it is not just done in the home, it is done in any eating establishment. As said previously, there is a good chance that French teenagers do not puke up when they all go on the binge (i haven't seen any responsible drinking at the French rugby and football matches I have attended), because they have a resistance to alcohol built up over the previous 10 years. Do you think that acceptable?


appears to work, as it is relatively rare to see hordes of rampaging drunken binge drinking yobs vomiting and sitting in piles of their own urine and faeces in European cities, whereas in the UK it is becoming more and more common.

Funny, when I lived in London for many years, the people you describe in the paragraph above were generally South African or Austrailian students, maybe thats just because there are so few Brits that actually live in London now.

Of course you do see it in European cities, but the performers are usually British or Scandinavian. (Now I will come under attack again by the Little Englanders for daring to once again criticise the UK.)

I doubt there will be anymore attacks Captonian, you have made your views on the English quite clear in this thread and the "you know you're in England when..' thread. Hey ho!

Parapunter
29th Jul 2011, 09:20
(Now I will come under attack again by the Little Englanders for daring to once again criticise the UK.) Zzzz. I may well pick you up on sweeping generalisations, it's usually this lot or that lot, but I have learnt over the years that people with prejudices are the least likely to be open to reason & persuasion, so off you toddle on your merry, jaundiced way, watch out for the narrowing pathway as you go.:rolleyes:

Meanwhile, back in open minded research land, it turns out those exemplary European kids who eschew the evil alcohol are busy getting wasted in other ways man.

http://www.espad.org/documents/Espad/ESPAD_reports/17_18_Year_Old_Students_Summary.pdf

Capetonian
29th Jul 2011, 09:35
Henry09

I do 'get it', but we disagree and you won't see another point of view. And please learn to spell Capetonian, it's not that hard is it?

Parapunter : Generalisations are based on perceptions or behavioural trends, they do have their values and uses. The report that you cited is interesting, but more so for what it doesn't say than what it does say. It doesn't for example, talk about quantities of alcohol consumed, but only about frequency. You may agree (although you probably won't!) that a half of lager or a tot of wine every other day is less harmful than a binge once a week. Therefore the survey doesn't really give anything conclusive.

Henry09
29th Jul 2011, 09:39
CapEtonian

I do 'get it', but we disagree and you won't see another point of view. And please learn to spell Capetonian, it's not that hard is it?

Glad to see you have a grip on the priorities in life.

I am not quite sure what you think we disagree on. If the other point of view that you want me to see is that it is OK to give minors alcohol, then no, I won't see it and I won't agree with you. The End!

Parapunter
29th Jul 2011, 09:41
It's all there in black & white, so no, I don't agree with you and that report is just the summary, not the detail which is available chapter & verse on ESPADS site.

Binge drinking
The differences between the countries are less evident in relation to frequent binge drinking compared to the case of drunkenness. The country that reports the highest proportion of students that have been binge drinking 3 times or more during the last 30 days is still Sweden (26%), but the distance to the other countries is less evident. The range of proportions runs from 17 percent
(France) to 23 percent (Poland). In all countries the gender distribution shows that there are more boys than girls reporting this behaviour.


As for perceptions, I perceive you to be racially motivated when discussing the inhabitants of countries and overwhelmingly in a negative manner. I would bet my mortgage you don't, so where does that leave the value you place in perceptions?

Um... lifting...
29th Jul 2011, 09:43
Let me save you fellows some time...

XOGWbzUM-y8

Capetonian
29th Jul 2011, 09:49
Henry : Under controlled circumstances and in small quantities, I think it is acceptable to give minors' alcohol. What is a minor? Does it suddenly become OK to let them have alcohol on their 16th birthday, or 18th, or 12th ..... whereas the day before they reach that artificial waypoint it's not OK.

Edited to add : THE DEFINITION OF A MINOR is a variable depending on context and country/state.

I know people who grew up in homes where alcohol was a taboo topic, where it was kept under lock and key, and who grew up as abusers of it. I was brought up in an environment where my parents were light drinkers and the cabinet was there and open, we had a small glass at dinner at weekends, consequently my siblings and I took little interest in it, and to this day all of us are very light drinkers, in fact I was almost teetotal for a few years.

Parapunter : Your comments are getting boring ......
I perceive you to be racially motivated when discussing the inhabitants of countries and overwhelmingly in a negative manner. I would bet my mortgage you don't, so where does that leave the value you place in perceptions?
I also perceive myself to be 'racially motivated' (your words not mine) in regard to the inhabitants of certain countries, sometimes in a negative way and I don't have a problem with that, you do. So be careful what you bet because you might end up losing!
Perhaps I'm just more honest than some other people.

Parapunter
29th Jul 2011, 09:51
Parapunter : You are getting boring ......and prone to personal attacks. An all round nice guy.:rolleyes:

Henry09
29th Jul 2011, 09:57
CapEtonian

Under controlled circumstances and in small quantities, I think it is acceptable to give minors' alcohol. What is a minor? Does it suddenly become OK to let them have alcohol on their 16th birthday, or 18th, or 12th ..... whereas the day before they reach that artificial waypoint it's not OK.

Well if you don't know what a minor is Capetonian I would be careful what you sh*g!

six and seven year olds (and the Toddlers outside OFSO's window), should not be drinking wine with their lunch and dinner everyday.


Parapunter

The document is an interesting read. ref the racial stuff, I believe the reasons were covered a while ago on British TV :)

‪Spitting Image: I've never met a nice South African‬‏ - YouTube


Not that they made generalisations Capetonian.

Capetonian
29th Jul 2011, 09:57
Sorry parapunter :

I've changed it to : "Your comments are getting boring"

Now it is not a personal attack. Happy?

Unlike you, I don't care if people make personal attacks, you've said some pretty unpleasant things about me in other threads and I couldn't give a toss.

goudie
29th Jul 2011, 11:27
Blimey, I thought this thread was about 'screaming kids'. Now it's been hijacked by screaming adults!:{

Nick Riviera
29th Jul 2011, 13:29
"Never really understood why some parents think that everyone must want to share and enjoy their children's behaviour as much as the parents do.

Some parents believe that it is their children's right to express themselves no matter what the situation or circumstance; other parents try to explain that some circumstances require different behaviours".

Sure, which is why my kids are expected to behave completely differently when they are in a restaurant, for example, than when they are in a playground, swimming pool etc. I have no issue with that, except to say that some latitude must still be given in more formal situations as small children will not behave as well as adults, obviously.

My gripe is with the miserable old gits who, frankly, hate children and who are wildly prevalent in the UK and in expat communities worldwide. I have made this point numerous times over the years so won't labour it again except to say that time spent on the continent with children is such a pleasure, mainly because they are welcomed everywhere and treated for what they are - children. Have you ever joined Italians for Sunday lunch in a restaurant? One of the best days of my life and my kids still talk about it, still remember being made so welcome amid the chaos of noise and love. Brilliant.

Parapunter
29th Jul 2011, 14:08
Well Nick - and here's something I never thought I would write - I couldn't agree more.

I'm just still reeling that someone would openly admit, in this day and age, that they think it's ok to base judgments on people, based purely on their racial characteristics. I find that staggering.

Capetonian
29th Jul 2011, 14:28
Parapunter : Perhaps semantics, but I really meant 'national' characteristics, rather than racial, since people can be of the same race but a different nationality, bearing in mind that e.g. Israelis and Arabs (at least those from the neighbouring countries) are both racially Nilo-Hamitic and share many characteristics (linguistic, dietary, physical)

Are you shocked that I judge people like that, or that I admit to doing so? I think you may find that many people share my views but are afraid to admit it. I'm not. Too many people talk round these things in these days of 'political correctness'. I don't 'do' PC.

Whirlygig
29th Jul 2011, 14:33
As a miserable old git who, quite frankly, hates children ..... :}

I have no issue with the playground/swimming pool thing as I avoid those like the plague. A well-behaved child in a restaurant doesn't bother me (altough if it's a pub, that's still illegal unless a Chilredn's Licence is held). But ...
I have no issue with that, except to say that some latitude must still be given in more formal situations as small children will not behave as well as adults, obviously.Maybe this is the difference in the way I brought up and the way some parents bring up their children now. I was not taken to any formal situation if it was felt by my parents that I wouldn't behave acceptably. I was parked with someone whilst my parents went off to a wedding, funeral etc. If I was taken somewhere and mis-behaved, either my mother or father would immediately take me away where I was not causing a disturbance and I would be given a severe lecture. My father reading me The Riot Act was enough!

My parents did not feel the need to take me everywhere with them and, when they did take me, I was not to run around or scream or shout - that was only allowed at home.

Cheers

Whirls

Henry09
29th Jul 2011, 14:41
I was not to run around or scream or shout - that was only allowed at home.

A completely fair statement

And perhaps also in the privacy of a holiday villa, with its own pool, albeit sadly being overlooked by OFSO prying through the curtains whispering curses at British Children and penning graphic stories on PPRuNe of having them beaten to within an inch of their lives. On second thoughts the whole area needs an avoidance zone around it!

Katamarino
29th Jul 2011, 14:51
Interesting that the allegedly far superior Southern European way of raising children seems to have produced miserably failing countries that are begging for handouts from their terrible Northern neighbours :}

Maybe they should drink and sleep less, and work more :ok:

Capetonian
29th Jul 2011, 15:21
Interesting that the allegedly far superior Southern European way of raising children seems to have produced miserably failing countries that are begging for handouts from their terrible Northern neighbours

That's an interesting comment, from the perspective that the countries in Southern Europe have the longest life expectancy, must be that happy-go-lucky attitude, and those in the north with supposedly high standards of living (Sweden and Switzerland come to mind) the highest suicide rates.

The Greeks have been going out for dinner free for years and now they've got the bill they can't pay, but they don't care becuase they've got Uncle ECB to cough up.

radeng
29th Jul 2011, 15:31
I like to follow the instructions on the aspirin bottle - 'Keep away from children'.

sitigeltfel
29th Jul 2011, 16:57
BBC News - Llantwit Fardre play scheme scrapped over parent fights (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-14329759)

"There's a lot of people around here who seriously ought to be ashamed of themselves.
"When adults behave like that if they can't get their own way, then what hope is there for the kids?"
Precisely :*

Um... lifting...
29th Jul 2011, 17:01
Clear to me, as is typical in these Welsh play schemes, there simply weren't enough vowels allocated for everyone to get one.

V2-OMG!
29th Jul 2011, 17:02
Maybe this is the difference in the way I brought up and the way some parents bring up their children now. I was not taken to any formal situation if it was felt by my parents that I wouldn't behave acceptably. I was parked with someone whilst my parents went off to a wedding, funeral etc. If I was taken somewhere and mis-behaved, either my mother or father would immediately take me away where I was not causing a disturbance and I would be given a severe lecture. My father reading me The Riot Act was enough!

My parents did not feel the need to take me everywhere with them and, when they did take me, I was not to run around or scream or shout - that was only allowed at home.

I like what Whirls said (again).

Likewise, my arenas of of acceptable behaviour were determined early.

However, in my case, that eventually backfired. I was too good in public - and really bad at home. The situation on the homefront was soon rectified!

Whirlygig
29th Jul 2011, 17:27
I was too good in public - and really bad at homeMe too! If my mother was complimented on how well-behaved I was, she would reply that I was a little gobshite at home and if they thought I was that lovely, they could have me! :ouch:

All of my friends at that time were given the same ground rules as I and we were all brought up in the same manner. I find it curious how some of these friends decided that it was the best way and their children are equally well-behaved in public but other friends (who maybe are not now so close!), have gone against that and brought up their children in a much more lax fashion.

Cheers

Whirls

txdmy1
29th Jul 2011, 17:30
3 causes
1 illness
2 joy
3 being muppets

treatment
1 determine cause and fix (include medical personnel if necessary)
2 restrain if deemed necessary (dependant on surroundings...)
3 slap, repeat if necessary

worked for us :)

west lakes
29th Jul 2011, 17:32
All of my friends at that time were given the same ground rules as I and we were all brought up in the same manner

Similar to what we had, chose to apply them to ours, those that know him know the result!

Seldomfitforpurpose
29th Jul 2011, 17:44
I hate screaming kids I really really do but that said when schools out, round a swimming pool or other play area it's what they do. It's right, it's proper and it's healthy and whilst I cannot stand it I fully understand it and if I don't like it I go somewhere else :ok:

ShyTorque
29th Jul 2011, 19:29
As a miserable old git who, quite frankly, hates children :}

I'll set my little daughter on you. :}

Whirlygig
29th Jul 2011, 20:02
I'll set my little daughter on you. :}She's probably taller than me by now :}

Cheers

Whirls

ShyTorque
29th Jul 2011, 22:09
And me! :ok:

GGR
30th Jul 2011, 13:06
I was brought up hearing the saying ''children should be seen but not heard'' it never stopped me or my siblings playing from dawn til dusk and having tons of fun as I recall. Today it seems the louder they can scream the better some parents like it! We knew that when our dad was not in the mood due to the fact he was always knackered due to hard graft, we kept a lid on our exhuberations within his earshot! I wish my neighbours and their kids would try it sometime......

GGR

vulcanised
30th Jul 2011, 15:03
I'll swear the brat next door is being taught to be noisy.

Left alone, he plays quite quietly, either parent seem to feel the need to make enthsiastic whoops and yells when they join in so he has to up the volume just to be heard.

Cacophonix
30th Jul 2011, 15:18
It is all boolean logic!

"Scream and shout...

36ceRKu5FKY

Oops, no, I meant this one...

PPRuNers... what are your favorite (American spelling) versions of that damned song?

Cacophonix
30th Jul 2011, 15:31
Vulcanised

Parenticide (new word) isn't a crime, yet! ;)

Caco

Shack37
30th Jul 2011, 22:31
Anybody else here turn off the sound when the current "Specsavers" ad is on. Features a kid who ticks all the boxes complained about here.

Must have been an interesting audition!

ChristiaanJ
30th Jul 2011, 22:42
How about F-102 for the parents?Nope....
The F-104 wing was not "razor-sharp", but it could do nasty damage. The F-102 wing leading edge was more in the "blunt trauma" (i.e. a very nasty bruise) category.

CJ

Nick Riviera
30th Jul 2011, 23:18
"As a miserable old git who, quite frankly, hates children .....

I have no issue with the playground/swimming pool thing as I avoid those like the plague. A well-behaved child in a restaurant doesn't bother me (altough if it's a pub, that's still illegal unless a Chilredn's Licence is held). But ...

Quote:
I have no issue with that, except to say that some latitude must still be given in more formal situations as small children will not behave as well as adults, obviously.

Maybe this is the difference in the way I brought up and the way some parents bring up their children now. I was not taken to any formal situation if it was felt by my parents that I wouldn't behave acceptably. I was parked with someone whilst my parents went off to a wedding, funeral etc. If I was taken somewhere and mis-behaved, either my mother or father would immediately take me away where I was not causing a disturbance and I would be given a severe lecture. My father reading me The Riot Act was enough!

My parents did not feel the need to take me everywhere with them and, when they did take me, I was not to run around or scream or shout - that was only allowed at home".

I'll try to avoid mentioning the underlying inference that you were somehow brought up better than me and the suggestion that I bring my children up in a different manner. Believe you me I was brought up strictly and am the same with my kids. However, you seem to be under the misapprehension that I think it is ok for children to run amok at formal occasions which is not what I said. I said some latitude must be given in formal situations - for example, earlier this year we were at a family wedding and during the church service a few children, bored with yet another hymn, started talking and giggling amongst themselves, not very loudly but it was spotted. Now I and many other adults doubtless found the service tedious but because we are adults we can control our boredom - the children couldn't because they are children. Nobody took the slightest offence and all accepted this for what it was. That is what I mean by latitude. Would I take my kids to a funeral? No, they are too young. Do they accompany us to some other formal occasions? Yes, but they know the standards expected of them. However, I would always accept that some allowances must be made because of their ages. It is a simple concept and one that fair-minded adults understand.

V2-OMG!
4th Aug 2011, 18:43
Was listening to this topic on talk radio while driving yesterday. One restaurant banned children under six years of age from their establishment. Their monthly revenue is up 20%!

Cacophonix
4th Aug 2011, 18:57
One restaurant banned children under six years of age from their establishment. Their monthly revenue is up 20%!

Children don't drink or buy bottles of expensive wine! Wine buying bums on seats laddie (sorry I meant lady V2), bums on seats...

Caco

V2-OMG!
4th Aug 2011, 19:38
Caco, an increase of 20% suggests to me that the patrons are lingering and enjoying that expensive bottle of wine, after-dinner liquer, specialty coffee, and fancy dessert.

I have gone to establishments which are very noisy (and in fairness, not all that noise was necessarily caused by screaming children) and left before ordering anything.

I'm sure the servers are also enjoying the 20% increase in revenue tip-wise. A pleasant experience is usually exponential with the tip. Plus, they do not have to clean up the horrendous food mess left by many children. If my child left such a mess, I would have the decency to grab the broom and dustbin, wet rag, and leave the table/floor/seats as clean as I found them.

Cacophonix
5th Aug 2011, 04:59
I am entirely in accord with you V2. I too am tempted to linger longer sipping a good Sauvignon Blanc when I am not being assailed by the drill bit intensity of a baby shrieking because it (sorry he/she, they are people) is tired.

Of course Nick Riviera is also right. There is a time and appropriate place for children in certain restaurants.

Caco

Krystal n chips
5th Aug 2011, 05:55
" Plus, they do not have to clean up the horrendous food mess left by many children. "

To be fair, this isn't exclusive to children....there are plenty of "adults" ( those whose mental age has stagnated between the ages of 5 -15....usually male...but not exclusively...:yuk: ) who feel their evening out should entail as much inconsidration to other diners as to staff...and the so called status of a venue is no barrier either.

crippen
5th Aug 2011, 10:14
Quote -- To be fair, this isn't exclusive to children....there are plenty of "adults" ( those whose mental age has stagnated between the ages of 5 -15....usually male...but not exclusively.

Always horrified at the mess in business class that the 'Clients' leave behind after a fight.sorry aviation content!:uhoh: