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glad rag
27th Jul 2011, 10:41
Vatican recalls ambassador after Irish PM's comments on sex abuse row | World news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/25/vatican-ireland-child-abuse-row)

some background....

Vatican approach to child abuse in Ireland absolutely disgraceful, says PM | World news | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/14/vatican-child-abuse-ireland?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487)

finally, heart rending testimony of abuse.
This is a clip from Irish television current affairs programme Questions and Answers. The person speaking is Michael O' Brien; a former mayor and childhood victim of sexual, emotional and physical abuse at Catholic-run industrial schools.

‪Questions and Answers - Ryan Commission - Michael O' Brien Responds‬‏ - YouTube


Feel free to defend the indefensible, if you so wish.

Shack37
27th Jul 2011, 11:07
glad rag

That must be a real eye opener for many people. Few, if any will not be aware of this scandal but a personal experience recounted like that is enough to make even us non victims very angry.

Thank you for posting it.

SpringHeeledJack
27th Jul 2011, 12:10
That's pretty hard to listen to, and that man was just one of thousands of children who were raped, abused, punched/hit by both priests and nuns in past times in Ireland without any recourse whatsoever. The power of the church was immense and to go against it's representatives and missives was social suicide. That the systemic abuse of minors was swept under the carpet and almost to this day either denied or downplayed is a travesty. :sad:


SHJ

chuks
27th Jul 2011, 12:18
I used to work with a man who had been educated in Ireland by the Christian Brothers. He said they were a byword for physical cruelty towards children. We did not talk about other forms of abuse.

corsair
27th Jul 2011, 12:24
Yes indeed, it's an unutterable disgrace. Both the chuch and state were involved with this. It's shameful and it was long overdue for the politicians to tell it like it is.

But as the present controversary proves that part of church continued to be 'unhelpful' right up to the present day. Never mind the Vatican recalling the Papal Nuncio. He should have been expelled.

My Mother, though she was never abused, she was beaten. When her Mother died in the thirties she and her sister were taken to an 'orphanage' school. Despite the fact that her Father was still there and she was surrounded by close family. Such was the power of the church. It was for her own good, supposedly. Her Father even paid for her keep in the orphanage. This helped save her from the worst excesses of the nuns. Nevertheless when her Father sent shoes to her. They were taken off her and given to a more 'needy' child.

This was the reality right up to the sixties. Neither was it a huge secret. Any bold behaviour on my part was put down with a threat that I would put in one of those schools. The threat included lurid descriptions of my fate should that happen.

Many priests now avoid wearing 'uniform' in public anymore. Too much verbal abuse, can't say I sympathise.

Parapunter
27th Jul 2011, 12:29
My dad was educated by the Christian Brothers in Dunlaoghaire. I'll spare the details, save to say it was horrific in the telling, I can't imagine the experiencing.

Henry09
27th Jul 2011, 12:41
The Video is shocking in the reality and emotion. Watching the 'Minister' I was unsure what his ultimate reaction would be and thought, surely as a human this man has to stand up go into the audience give the man a hug and say 'I am sorry'. Of course nothing happened.

I watched the video direct on youtube,, only to be drawn by the videos on the right of the screen, in particular an interview with Bill Donohue, who proceeds to state how all the victims are money grabbing liars, who simply had inadequate heating sometimes and got the occasional clip round the ear!!! I am amazed nobody has whacked him yet.

Blacksheep
27th Jul 2011, 13:46
A good friend of ours was telling of how she was starved and beaten by the nuns at the Catholic orphanage where she was brought up in Malaysia in the late 1950s and through the 1960s. She endured sixteen years of torture and abuse. It was hard to believe that nuns would do that, but she showed Mrs BS the scars on her back.

ORAC
27th Jul 2011, 14:21
Went to boarding School in Kilkenny 67-72. Teachers were priests, prefects ecclessiastic students.

Accepting I was obviously British at the time of the worst of the troubles in the North - and many of the prefects were from there doing their training for the priesthood in the South, they were the worst days of my life.

I've had an abiding hatred of established religion ever since and have never been back to the school and never will. The only times I have been in a church since are for my parents funerals; the only times in future are for sisters, if I outlive them.

After that they'll have to carry me in.....

Ancient Observer
27th Jul 2011, 14:25
My mother in law was an Irish Catholic. One of the "every day to mass" ones.

As far as her beloved church was concerned, black was white, and white was black, if the church said so.

When you are so very deeply indoctrinated, knowledge of "the truth" as others in society see it is a very long way away.

She thought that as long as she agreed to all that, she would go to heaven.

sitigeltfel
27th Jul 2011, 14:32
Any other organisation that treated those in its care would be forced to close and its leaders prosecuted and jailed. Just because it falls under the banner of "religion" it should not be exempt.

glad rag
3rd Aug 2011, 18:32
His job was to monitor church groups to ensure paedophiles did not gain access to children in the church’s congregations.
But he was caught by police in March with more than 4,000 child porn images on his home computer and his work laptop.




Church child protection chief caught with 4,000 child porn pictures - mirror.co.uk (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/07/31/church-child-protection-chief-caught-with-child-porn-pictures-115875-23308972/)

tony draper
3rd Aug 2011, 18:44
Well at least he got sacked and not just transfered to another bailwick as was the norm in the past.
:)

Lon More
3rd Aug 2011, 19:36
There is a Dutch expression which is unfortunately only too valid for the relationship between State and Religion there. "Twee handen op een buik - two hands on one stomach."

chiglet
3rd Aug 2011, 23:35
Two biographies......
Billy [Billy Connoly]
Little Green Apples.... Guy who ends up running a Major Motor Franchise in Eire
Eye watering....

racedo
3rd Aug 2011, 23:47
Not sure how scandal keeps growing as person found with porn on his computer doing a job protecting children...............no different from a teacher / social worker / police man.

In the case of this person I think you can guarantee that ALL the required CRB checks were done again and again................ didn't pick anything up yet UK Govt wanted to do this to everyone.

Loose rivets
4th Aug 2011, 00:02
It's odd how we don't seek out these monsters when we're older. The worst assault in my life was from an overtly gay teacher who beat me nearly senseless - when I was eight. I was over 6' tall by the time I was 15, and fairly hefty. I could have easily found him, but just didn't care. I seem to care more in my dotage when seeing it from a grandfather's viewpoint.


What happened to the Jersey investigation? It seemed a total nightmare, but I may have missed the end because of being in the States. Did it go to trial?

Yamagata ken
4th Aug 2011, 06:28
My brother was subject to the tenderness of "The Sisters of Mercy". They used to beat him for the sin of being left handed "in league with the Devil". He's 63 now and still left handed, but he's had trouble reading and writing all his life. Rot in hell you B******s.

arcniz
4th Aug 2011, 09:08
Murderous despots seem terrible, but what about such a giant conspiracy, gone on so long, coddled and cajoled to support the political leaders of the moment, no matter what human and social cost?

Couple thousand years solid - of self-serving, vicious hypocrisy - by them who proclaim their selves as anointed keepers of truth and wisdom.

Is this generation really the first to notice?

tony draper
4th Aug 2011, 09:15
Nope,those Tudors had them sussed, well three of them did anyway,father son and red headed daughter,the other daughter was still with the program though.
:)

beaufort1
4th Aug 2011, 09:24
Loose Rivets there were some prosecutions for some of the people who worked at La Haute Garenne in the 70's, but not many. I think the general concensus is there has been a massive cover up by the authorities. I hadn't realised that there were some Guernsey youngsters sent there and some of their stories were fairly horrific. They had come forward along with nearly 200 others but it has been a waste of time.

Haut de la Garenne – No Final Chapter to be Written « CALLS FOR JUSTICE (http://callsforjustice.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/haut-de-la-garenne-no-final-chapter-to-be-written/)

Tankertrashnav
4th Aug 2011, 10:48
Stand by for a truly shocking revelation

My first school was a normal state primary, whose headmistress and deputy head were nuns. The deputy taught the 5 year olds, and naturally I was in her class for my first year. She was one of the gentlest, most patient teacher I ever had. I then attended a private school run by the Jesuits, in Glasgow, from the age of 9 - 12. In the three years I was there I was never once subjected to any form of sexual or physical abuse, nor did I ever hear any rumours of any other boy (it was a single sex school) being abused, sexually or physically.

This is not an apology for the truly dreadful goings on in the schools referred to in this thread, nor to the shameful cover-ups in the Roman Catholic hierarchy which continue to this day. However, in case anyone thinks that all priests and nuns are paedophiles and sadists, my own experiences do not bear this out. Maybe things were different in Ireland, but I am sure that there were good priests and nuns there, as well as the evil ones.

Cacophonix
4th Aug 2011, 11:06
However, in case anyone thinks that all priests and nuns are paedophiles and sadists, my own experiences do not bear this out. Maybe things were different in Ireland, but I am sure that there were good priests and nuns there, as well as the evil ones.

Amen to that Tanker. Was educated by the Irish Catholics (De La Salle Brothers) and despite a couple of beatings (richly deserved) my experience had no long term effect on me save for a club foot, a glass eye and a lifelong stammer

I never encountered any perversion or other abuse.

Am not at all religious but do think that there elements of this thread that at least smack of special pleading and at worst bigotry.

Caco

bnt
4th Aug 2011, 11:50
One thing that's made a difference this year, I think, is the reduction of Catholicness in the make-up of the new government. Taoiseach (PM) Enda Kenny appears to be a fairly devout Catholic, if climbing Croagh Patrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croagh_Patrick) over a hundred times is any indication thereof. However, Minister for Justice & Equality Alan Shatter has had a much greater role behind the scenes, and he's Jewish. So you have someone in a position of power over the abuse scandals who's not Catholic at all, and therefore not in the Church's pocket.

I don't think anyone's seriously suggested that all Catholic clergy are paedophiles - though I would have my doubts about any man who would willingly choose a career that requires him to be celibate. However, the Cloyne report behind the current faff was not about the abuse itself, but about the Church's response to the abuse at all levels in Ireland. There were many clergy who did not abuse anyone, but who did help to cover it up.

Cacophonix
4th Aug 2011, 12:00
Minister for Justice & Equality Alan Shatter has had a much greater role behind the scenes, and he's Jewish. So you have someone in a position of power over the abuse scandals who's not Catholic at all, and therefore not in the Church's pocket.


One could argue that most of the Irish climbed out of the Church's pocket years ago (and a good thing too).

Many famous Jews like Chaim Herzog hailed from Ireland originally and so it is good to see them staying at home and in government in Ireland.

emeritus
4th Aug 2011, 12:09
I am saddened by some of the posts here but can understand the reasons why a lot of people reject Christianity.

What has been done to many children by people who purport to be Christians is deplorable and I would not like to be in their shoes come the day of judgement.
What I think needs to be remembered is that it is not the fault of Jesus' teachings but those who misinterpret for their own benefit.

Study of, and guidence by those understanding of, scripture can in fact provide help for those wanting healing for their experiences. Seek and you will find.

Emeritus

larssnowpharter
4th Aug 2011, 12:19
Caco:

Amen to that Tanker. Was educated by the Irish Catholics (De La Salle Brothers) and despite a couple of beatings (richly deserved) my experience had no long term effect on me save for a club foot, a glass eye and a lifelong stammer

I never encountered any perversion or other abuse.

Am not at all religious but do think that there elements of this thread that at least smack of special pleading and at worst bigotry.

TTN:

tand by for a truly shocking revelation

My first school was a normal state primary, whose headmistress and deputy head were nuns. The deputy taught the 5 year olds, and naturally I was in her class for my first year. She was one of the gentlest, most patient teacher I ever had. I then attended a private school run by the Jesuits, in Glasgow, from the age of 9 - 12. In the three years I was there I was never once subjected to any form of sexual or physical abuse, nor did I ever hear any rumours of any other boy (it was a single sex school) being abused, sexually or physically.

This is not an apology for the truly dreadful goings on in the schools referred to in this thread, nor to the shameful cover-ups in the Roman Catholic hierarchy which continue to this day. However, in case anyone thinks that all priests and nuns are paedophiles and sadists, my own experiences do not bear this out. Maybe things were different in Ireland, but I am sure that there were good priests and nuns there, as well as the evil ones.

Just to add a little balance here. I was dispatched at the age of 9 to a well known English Catholic boarding school run by the so called Christian Brothers. This was in England and was supposed to be a flagship operation. This was from 1959 to 1968.

I have never been in such a violent place in my life; both the prep school and the college. On one occasion I received the strap on 12 different occasions in one day. Bullying was endemic. On one occasion a lay teacher (nicknamed 'Thug') took it out on me to the extent of two lost teeth and four stitches.

I was never buggered by the bastards but recognised a number of contacts that today would be called inappropriate but, back then, were downright scary.

My last act on leaving the bloody place was to gain access to the sacristy and ejaculate on the carpet.

I pray to God - if He exists - that the barstwerds who claimed to operate in his name in this particular Christian order rot in Hell.

corsair
4th Aug 2011, 12:31
I would add to my previous post that that I personally never had a negative experience with any member of the Catholic church. But then again I was lucky not to have been institutionalised nor did I go to a Christian Brother school. Those that did used to entertain us with lurid tales of beatings.

There was even one priest locally who was very popular with the local kids:uhoh: He always had a few around him.:eek: He was entertaining and lots of fun. :cool: He played games with them and showed magic tricks. 'Bogarrah bogarrah' was his nickname. No idea why. In the modern context this would set off alarm bells all the way to the Vatican. But in fact there never was a hint of anything dubious and to this day. He remains in the affections of many locals who grew up around that time. Including my sisters and brother who get angry when I suggest anything untoward.

The truth what that he loved kids and probably would have made a great father as opposed to a Rev Father. That to me is sad.

My opinion is that enforced celibacy is the root cause of a lot of this.

arcniz
4th Aug 2011, 12:39
My opinion is that enforced celibacy is the root cause of a lot of this.

Truly so. Like chopping off a leg - to lighten the load - before setting off on a thousand-mile walk.

Tankertrashnav
4th Aug 2011, 16:46
Just to add a little balance here.


Lars, whilst not for one minute denying your own bad experiences, or attempting to diminish them in any way, I rather think that it was I who was adding a little balance, as up to my post every previous one had been negative. I repeat, I dont deny or excuse any of the awful things that have gone on in these establishments, nor the church's attempt to cover them up. Only wanted to say that we didn't all have the awful experiences that you and others had.

Re celibacy - I think the writing's on the wall for that requirement. There are now many RC priests who are married, having previously been married clergymen in other churches such as the C of E and then converted to Catholicism. It's surely an obvious next step to say that priests who have entered the church in the normal way can also marry. But then the Vatican is not noted for making quick decisions :ugh:

Cacophonix
4th Aug 2011, 16:58
Lars

I have spoken to some folks who went to secular schools, comprehensives, grammar schools and some of the best public schools you can think of and many of them remember individual teachers who were sadists, perverts etc!

Sadly these people exist in the world and I am apt to think that the Catholic Church doesn't have a monopoly on them.

The fact that the Church saw fit to protect such folk in some places is another thing though!


Caco

Storminnorm
4th Aug 2011, 17:13
Phew!!!
After reading this stuff I'm so glad that I just went to local schools.

Some of this stuff has given me more of an insight into why my youngest
daughter's ex-husband turned out the way he did.
His family lived and worked in HK, and he spent years at boarding school
in the UK. I think he must have had a pretty rough time of it. Even if he wasn't Catholic.

sitigeltfel
4th Aug 2011, 17:15
Priests rated on new website - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/8681961/Priests-rated-on-new-website.html)

German churchgoers are to be given the opportunity to rate the performance of their priests and post reviews on a new website.

Sexual or liturgical?

hellsbrink
4th Aug 2011, 17:28
The fact that the Church saw fit to protect such folk in some places is another thing though!

And that is the most important thing to think about in regard to the Catholic church.

Throughout the decades of physical, mental and sexual abuse, and I only mean recent times as that sort of thing was not talked about in earlier times because of the power wielded by the church, NOT ONE PERSON stood up and screamed "ENOUGH!!". They connived, conspired and cooperated to conceal the acts of the minority, allowing said minority to continue their acts in other places, and turned a blind eye to things to protect "The Church". To this day, that still continues (as seen here when they protested like hell when the police were left with no choice and raided the "headquarters" of the Catholic church here in Belgium, and even claimed the police had no right to follow up on such serious allegations against members of the "church". The police, rightly, told them to shut up and get out of the way or be arrested).

Sorry, but that means that every one of them who "turned the other cheek", every one of them who conspired, ignored and allowed these perverts (for those who take pleasure in beating children are just as perverted as those who enjoy the sexual abuse of children) to carry out the abuse they enjoyed, is as guilty as those who carried out the various acts, they are accomplices, and should be arrested, charged and imprisoned as such.

It's time that the Catholic church was put in it's place and forced to reveal all, give details of all known "happenings", hand over those who carried out the acts and conspired to conceal them, or face being classed as an organisation not acceptable in a civilised society and forced out of existence.



(PS. The same goes for any other "religion" which has done anything remotely similar. They clean up or go)

glad rag
4th Aug 2011, 18:23
Am not at all religious but do think that there elements of this thread that at least smack of special pleading and at worst bigotry.
Quoted for posterity.

rmcb
4th Aug 2011, 22:43
Storminnorm has a point here - my folks were posted to various locations around the world, hence my 'posting' to boarding schools in the UK. Non religious base, but a full complement of bullies, creeps and perverts - male and female.

There seems to be a sinister breed that lurks in these institutions; enforced celibacy, I am sure, only enhances these urges. Bastards.

lomapaseo
5th Aug 2011, 16:56
I was educated in an all boys schools run by the Christian Brothers Del La Salle,

Never saw or heard any evidence of inappropriate touching. Got slapped into a new life at the age of 13 which forever changed me from a thug to whatever.

As a boy in a school run by nuns, the memories are jokes today about the use of rullers and chalkboard erasers.

As a father, my view of kids today is that they are not as disciplined in shool.

My pragmatic suspect is that the biggest problem with the inappropiate behaviour of the teachers in the religous side is the cloak of protection that they found to hide behind. Once this gets changed things will improve somewhat (the wierdos will be caught earlier).

Davaar
6th Aug 2011, 01:57
It is an appalling story. Mr O'Brien is so open he must be telling the truth. Church of Rome and Eire. I do not belong to either.

Could it happen elsewhere?

Consider the children's author Roald Dahl, ex fighter pilot RAF. Try his autobiographical "Boy - Tales of Childhood", ISBN 978-0-14-241381-4, chapter "The Headmaster",pp 144 ff.

The Headmaster was top banana at a leading Public School, with which I have no connection, and if I did it would be with shame.

Became Bishop of Chester, then Bishop of London, C of E.

I have read often of him, and his view that a day spent not flogging a boy was a day wasted.

At page 145 we have "Michael". Michael was to be caned, and had to take down his trousers and bend over the end of the sofa. We read: "The great man then gave him one terrific crack. After that there was a pause. The cane was put down and the Headmaster began filling his pipe from a tin of tobacco. He also started to lecture the kneeling boy about sin and wrongdoing. Soon the cane was picked up again and a second tremendous crack was administered to the trembling buttocks. Then the pipe-filling business and the lecture went on for maybe another thirty seconds. Then came the third crack of the cane. Then the instrument of torture was put once more upon the table and a box of matches was produced ...." and so on through all ten of the strokes and the wiping of the blood.

I'll spare you the rest. What would you call such a man? A pervert, perhaps? A degenerate, maybe?

The English called him the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rev Dr Fisher, and he officiated at the last Coronation.

Not only in Rome. Not only in Eire.

parabellum
6th Aug 2011, 04:55
My opinion is that enforced celibacy is the root cause of a lot of this.


I have thought long and hard about this, not through any idle curiosity either, I was brought up in a strict Catholic family and was severely interfered with from the age of ten to fourteen by a priest attached to a local convent where we attended mass. The priest befriended the family, (four boys) and held a position of authority somewhere between my Father and God, none of it was enjoyable but he could do no wrong and had a fine line in patter.
As I approached fourteen and became more aware of the world I lived in, through reading and listening to others, it dawned on me just how evil and wrong the priest was, no question of talking to parents, I wouldn't have been believed, but fortunately discovered girls and was able to go to the 'big' church in the nearest town without getting involved with the clergy.

If a male, with strong religious beliefs, is able to go to a seminary from late teens to early twenties and before taking holy orders still say to himself that celibacy is OK, then surely he may well have strong homosexual tendencies anyway? We only hear about the pedophiles but nothing of the ones who choose to practice but stay legal with consenting male adults.

I'm not convinced that enforced celibacy is a cause of perversion and homosexual behaviour within the clergy, rather that they have been present (and 'bent') all the time and the church just attracts them.

B Fraser
6th Aug 2011, 08:37
The problem with a judgement day is that those involved know that there's no such thing. All involved should be tried in a court of law and if found guilty, should be named and sent to prison where they will experience the fear that they once inflicted.

Yamagata ken
6th Aug 2011, 11:38
Not only in Rome. Not only in Eire. Correct. In Australia for my brother (Christian Brothers/Sisters of Mercy). My first day at new Church school (Protestant), aged 6 newly arrived in the UK from the colonies was to be publicly beaten for the (unknown) crime of walking on the playing field. Rot in Hell you religious bastards.

603DX
6th Aug 2011, 12:48
I'll spare you the rest. What would you call such a man? A pervert, perhaps? A degenerate, maybe?

The English called him the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rev Dr Fisher, and he officiated at the last Coronation.

Not only in Rome. Not only in Eire.

Thank you for that astonishing revelation from Roald Dahl's book, Davaar. Over the years I have been known on occasion to relate the simple fact that I once shook hands with that man, along the lines of "I once shook the hand that crowned the Queen"; usually said with a modest smile.

In the light of Dahl's anecdotal account, which I find absolutely shocking, I will not be repeating either the statement or the accompanying smile, ever again.

racedo
6th Aug 2011, 14:03
Online Guide to Adopting from Foster Care - Sexual Abuse - (http://foster-child.adoption.com/parents/sexual-abuse-2.html)

Committee shocked by abuse of children in care | Radio Netherlands Worldwide (http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/committee-shocked-abuse-children-care)

The idea that it is related to one religion is crap as one only has to look at the abuse in Nurseries in the UK with 4-5 people already sent to jail.

The children in council care abuse is likely to be horrendous given previous history in the UK.

baggersup
6th Aug 2011, 16:17
Coincidentally to this latest scandalous report from Ireland, I happened to be driving all around the country listening to RTE1 radio in the car--for a day or two they had various articulate people commenting on the report, analyzing it and also had victims phoning in.

It was deeply horrifying to hear all of the terrible stories. One priest of a school allegedly threatened not to sign a female teacher's paycheck a couple of years ago, if she refused to let him be alone with the young male students--which she had rather stopped happening due to her suspicions of him. She was trying to protect her students and the priest allegedly had the temerity to force her to comply by denying her salary. That's some sense of entitled power, and the open exercise of seedy behavior, that is hard to get one's head around, if true.

Stayed at a place in Connemara that night after listening to RTE and the owner of the manor house hotel said the worst thing his mom could threaten him with in Dublin when he was in a Jesuit school was "you behave or you'll be off to Letterfrack!!" He said it was notorious for being harsh and punishing Christian Brothers industrial school of the time. He said it struck fear in him to be threatened with banishment to that school.

Incidentally, the new season of "Single Handed" on ITV deals fictionally with the Letterfrack school--the premier of that season about a month ago coinciding with the release of the report on the diocese being investgated.

It portrays a character played by the great Steven Rae as a victim of that school. UK folks have probably seen the show, but if you are in the US or anywhere else and can access it somehow, it's a great fictional portrayal of the treatment meted out in such a school, evidently. And the school on the show is located on Connemara so guess we are to think it is Letterfrack...

During my remaining time in Ireland it was clear that perhaps a watershed has been reached in the relationship of the church and the government. Endy Kenny was not "amused" by the latest revelations and seems quite set on cutting age-old ties. But suppose time will tell if that happens.

glad rag
4th Sep 2011, 01:43
BBC News - Vatican rejects cover-up claims over Cloyne report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14774142)

Jane-DoH
4th Sep 2011, 10:14
glad rag

Church child protection chief caught with 4,000 child porn pictures - mirror.co.uk (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/07/31/church-child-protection-chief-caught-with-child-porn-pictures-115875-23308972/)

Well, if the scandal grows, keep on thundering away


tony draper

Well at least he got sacked and not just transfered to another bailwick as was the norm in the past.

He should go to jail for what he did. I hope he likes grape jelly :E


racedo

Not sure how scandal keeps growing as person found with porn on his computer doing a job protecting children...............no different from a teacher / social worker / police man.

Irrelevant, he's connected to the church so it just shows a continuing pattern.


Loose rivets

It's odd how we don't seek out these monsters when we're older.

I don't get it either. I think it's preferable to use the legal system to enact some form of justice, but if that doesn't work, sometimes it's arguably acceptable to mete out your own form of justice (within reason).

racedo
4th Sep 2011, 10:59
Irrelevant, he's connected to the church so it just shows a continuing pattern.



Nope it shows someone brought on in an adminstrative role without access to children is caught with kiddie porn.

Person involved would have been checked and double checked using all UK apparatus whether he had been involved or arrested with any offences using CRB checks.

In the same way one could state that the military guy arrested at Windsor on sex charge is systematic of the military.

Fact is that even using all the checks that the Govt has he still was not picked up.

How then is the church responsible if they have followed every single guideline laid down by Govt ?

Jane-DoH
7th Sep 2011, 10:20
racedo

Nope it shows someone brought on in an adminstrative role without access to children is caught with kiddie porn.

I disagree.

jimtherev
7th Sep 2011, 10:53
Person involved would have been checked and double checked using all UK apparatus whether he had been involved or arrested with any offences using CRB checks.

Fact is that even using all the checks that the Govt has he still was not picked up.

Like just about everyone in UK with contact with children and vulnerable adults, I've been checked by Criminal Records Bureau multiple times. This proves I haven't been caught - nothing more than that. (I would claim, naturally that there's nothing to find... but so would anyone, wouldn't he?)

How then is the church responsible if they have followed every single guideline laid down by Govt ?
What is important is what happens after questions are asked about conduct. I know that 'my lot' suspends a minister or worker immediately an accusation is made and guidelines mandate a report to the police if it appears there is a case to investigate. Covering up by bribery or threats is not only illegal but totally anti any interpretation of the Christian faith that I subscribe to.

If allegations are seen to be unfounded, then the person is of course reinstated (though sadly with questions about his/her character forever thereafter.) This is the risk that anyone in any caring profession takes - but this is inescapable, however unfair.