How to apply FDP, Duty and Standbys

[Takeoff WAT]

Evening All,
I'm a newbie to the CAP371 and applying it to real situations, so having thoroughly confused myself I'm after a crewing expert to clarify something for me.

When a crew member has been on Standby and is called out to Report for a Flying Duty, is it the FDP or the Duty Period that is the limiting factor to apply?

For example:

Crew Member Reports at 20:00LT for a 2 Sector flight but has already been on Standby at home for 10 hours.

So, 20:00LT and 2 Sectors means an 11:15 FDP and so the scheduled On Chocks time should be no later than 07:15LT the next day.

However, with 10hrs Standby time already worked, we calculate the Duty Period as 10hrs Standby, plus the allowable FDP of 11:15 (accounting for the more limiting FDP set by the 20:00LT Report), minus the difference of 10hrs minus 6hrs, so giving a total Duty Period of 17:15 hrs.

So, does that mean the crew member can still work through to 07:15LT, according to the correct FDP, or is it the more limiting Duty Period that is applied, accounting for the earlier start of their Standby at 10:00LT, plus the allowable Duty Period of 17:15 hrs, taking them through to 03:15LT as the latest On Chocks time allowable?

Common sense says the more restricting Duty Period would apply but it isn't clear in CAP371 if that's the case?

Could someone who does this every day please clarify for me?

Thanks in advance.

[OutsideCAS]

Don't wish to hijack or drift the thread, am curious if anyone has been in a company where flight crew are subject to 24 hrs continuous rolling SBY duty, if called then the SBY duty dissapears ?? how do FOI not bring level 1/2 findings against companies involved at audit times ?? cannot believe these items are not indeed glaringly obvious - or are they ignored, a blind eye turned ?.

[Rostafarian]

Mate,

You are confused. Section 12.4, Case B of CAP 371 should explain it for you.

[Takeoff WAT]

OK, think I've got it...

FDP kind of sets the 'core' of the Duty Period, then Standby, Split Rest, Post-Flight Duties, Discretion, etc shortens or extends 'around' it.

Thanks

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Outside
24HR rolling standbys - not to my knowledge in the UK although FOI and level 1 /2 findings seem to suggest your pointing at a UK AOC?.
For sure if the FOI wants to find out what's happened they can find out (with a computerised system) but it's not always glaringly obvious! :\

[OutsideCAS]

Thankyou for the reply Mr Angry. This is an AOC company that a friend works for and I know the practice to be illegal, and yet it appears it continues to him/her - the company will be subject to mandatory audits and as I understand, it would be immediately obvious to an inspection as no rostered dutys are given (SBY times start and finish) due to 24/7 expectations when on duty, this allegedly leads to rostering after the event. My concern is how this is missed by an auditing FOI ? it would appear it is either missed (doubtful) or ignored ?.

[tehya]

simpliest cross-check is against the issued roster, which there will be a copy of and the achieved roster.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Outside
So its a 24hr sby with no start / end times just an expectation to be there when called. Um what can i say apart from the individual either needs to report it to the Company (brave chap) put up with it, or leave. He / she surely can't be the only Pilot with the issue?.
As for the FOI "Ignoring" it absolutely not. I know two IO's (FOI side kicks) and they are boh ex Crewing bods so they know the tricks of the trade etc.

The other option is for your colleague to contact the CAA directly, pm if you want a contact at LGW HQ

[Bergkamp10]

As I recall STBY duty can be for max 12 hours or 14 hours? I cannot actually remember. Also a crew could be CTC for 24 hours, but the company would give them one hour (I.E. 1700-1800) when the crew member should be reachable, to notify a change of duty, etc. This is a good tactic if your going from say a late finish to a early start type duty the following day.

I always found the CAA at LGW to be extremely helpful on any questions in regards to CAA CAP371 of this sort.

[OutsideCAS]

Thankyou for your replies - I will pass on and if required may ask for the details you have Mr Angry. Not aware that my colleagues associates are experiencing the same issue but would be fairly certain or it would be victimisation at the very least. Will ask and advise accordingly.
Interpretation for me of CAP 371 is that SBY duties are maximum 12 hours and pre notified on roster of hours start and finish ? this does not take in to account being called from SBY to carry out a duty and FDP calculation.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Outside

Yes sby's should be pre notified with start and finish times.
In theory contactable is a 3hr window (say 1800-2100) with minimum rest required before flying.
I think your saying it's a 24hr sby with no times.

Of course I would add that if you were rung on a day off and asked to fly for £1000 then there wouldn't be a problem would there?. Thats me being cynical again!! :\