RF in and out

[PPRuNe Pop]

I have come across a problem that I have never ever had before. The RF connections are not 'conforming.' I now have a new Panasonic recorder, I am keeping a similar but rather older one and I have a satellite dish with Humax box that does not have RF out. It has dish aerial in 2 scart sockets and one HDMI slot.

My new recorder has 2 scart sockets, RF in and out and a HDMI out. My TV has 2 HDMI in sockets 1 scart and RF (aerial) in. So the Humax goes to one HDMI and the recorder to the other.

My old recorder has 2 scart sockets and RF in and out. But for the life of me I cannot figure the configuration. To top that my new remote is not working and will not accept the TV code.

When I first got the dish it worked independently except for the HDMI link.

I am getting old but I thought my marbles were still rolling quite well until today. :ugh: Any help or advice would be welcome.

[The Flying Pram]

What are you trying to achieve? It sounds like you want to "Daisy Chain" them in some way. Possible problems are:
1) Channel clashing, if different equipment has RF modulators operating on the same frequency.
2) No RF modulator on the newer recorder. Very few do have them these days - the manufacturers clearly expect you to use more advanced link ups! (and they are trying to save money).

[PPRuNe Pop]

Update. I originally had 2 VHS units, one DVD recorder, one DVD player and the freesat Humax box. All were linked via RF cables, HDMI cables and/or scart. It all worked perfectly. Not now! Its really only the Freesat that is somehow wrong now.

[The Flying Pram]

If the Humax was working via HDMI before I can't see why it shouldn't still be OK. Have you tried it in the TV's other HDMI port, or used Scart instead? As for the RF connections, newer units don't have an RF modulator fitted - all they do is use the incoming signal for the tuner and pass everything straight through to the output. This means that you have to use the Scart~A/V~HDMI connections to watch anything you've recorded. I also understand that you can't "Daisy Chain" HDMI's - there is a built in detector to stop more that one device (this is to stop people making high quality copies). You might be better off employing a Scart or HDMI switchbox and just selecting the unit you want to view. If you need to record from the Humax this should be possible via the Scart connections and choosing an alternative input on your recorder.

[tony draper]

Does not the socket out to dish have to have voltage on it for the LNB?on my Humix kit a five volt out to the antenna is selectable in the menu.
I have seen satellite boxes with phono out to the dish and I have seen others with F plug,once blew a box up because of this confused state of affairs
:uhoh:
Most modern kit does not have RF in and out,just RF in assuming most people scart everything up nowadays,probably do away with scart shortly assuming we are all using HDMI:)

[MacBoero]

All the the kit I have bought in the last few years has had RF-IN and RF-OUT, presumably so that the same aerial feed can be used for both the new box, and whatever used the feed before, without having to introduce RF splitters and adapters.

In fact my weird Sony Freeview-PVR, has "Digital RF-In", "Digital RF-Out", "Analogue RF-In" and "Analogue RF-Out", so my aerial feed goes...

From aerial -> Sony Digital RF-In
Sony Digital RF-Out -> Sony Analogue RF-In
Sony Analogue RF-Out -> TV Aerial socket

[tony draper]

Ah yer,one was speaking of the way the old kit like VCRs worked they took the RF IN from the antenna and combined a separate UHF channel upon it carrying the output from the tape and sent it out at RF to be demodulated by the TV,the latest VCR I have(never used now)does not have the tape output at UHF the AE in and out is just a loop through the output from the tape is just available on the scart socket.
:)

[PPRuNe Pop]

With a little help from my 'friends' here and one mate it is now solved and some of your inputs are spot on. RF's are still used, at least on the latest Panasonic recorder I have and on a JVC TV. I think I was thrown by the diagram in the user manual starting at "1" and going south but the best way was antenna in the last unit up to the TV RF, which was OUT and is now IN. The Humax HD has the HDMI on 2 and HD is on 2. Easy switchover and the 'deep colour' that panasonic sell is a surprise and very good. in the system I also have a scart in a line to the TV scart - its actually better than before.

I think that's enough. But many thanks for all your help.

PPP

[tony draper]

each unit such as DV/HD recorder or Humax box needs off air RF in for its own tuners to work on,the outputs of these units are fed via scart or HDMI to the TV set which has its own tuners,what I meant was the kit no longer sends its output on a rf channel to the tv set,the ae in outs are purely loop though,this was not the case a few years ago when VCRs also presented the output as a uhf channel as well as video,as you say the TV must be last in line as it generally only has one RF in socket,which way round you connect the other units via in and out RF socket as long as RF out goes to RF in on the next it does not matter.
:)

[The Flying Pram]

I'm glad you got there in the end. Things certainly don't get any easier..

@ Mr D - the LNB socket does indeed have a DC voltage present, however it should be either 14 or 18 volts. This selects either vertical or horizontal polarisation at the LNB.

TFP

[tony draper]

Mine is a Humax HD freeview box,works from a conventional uhf antenna, mine has a five volt selectable phantom on the AE in, possibly for a mast head pre amp?, tiz a bit of a puzzle,dont need any pre amp here as I can see the Pontop Pike transmitter from me back window and I could almost run me lights off the signal I pull in.
:)

[The Flying Pram]

Yer confusin' me now, Mr D! When you mentioned an LNB I assumed you were talking about a satellite receiver... I suppose having a built in amplifier power supply is no bad thing, though. Not everyone is being bathed in RF energy like wot you are!

I've helped 2 friends recently, who on moving into previously occupied homes, found that they couldn't get any picture. In both cases it transpired that the houses had external amps, and the power supply box had been taken by the last owners...

[tony draper]

Nephew Draper has just had a new Sky Dish installed at his new gaff it seems to have a separate twin cable running from the back of the Sky box up to the Dish,one assumes supplies the voltage for the LNB rather then bunging it up the coaxial didn't investigate as one was busy fettling his UHF stuff.
:)

[jimtherev]

Two channels=two coax connectors, Tony. It seems ('cos I inadvertently changed 'em over while remaking connections and found no difference) that either coax can carry the DC.

[The Flying Pram]

The twin cable will be for a Sky Plus twin tuner box. Two feeds from a dual or quad LNB. Each has full, independent, control of its respective LNB section, so any 2 different channels can be watched/recorded simultaneously. I think their installers normally fit these LNB's and cable as standard to save extra work if the customer wants to upgrade later.

[tony draper]

His Skybox is indeed one of they Sky Plus boxes but I have to say the other cable looked nowt like a coaxial to me,more like a heavy flat twin,one shall investigate further next time I'm up there.
:)

[The Flying Pram]

It's called "Shotgun" coax - do search for it and look at some images. Each half is about 2/3rds the size of normal CT100, and the overall dimensions are about the same as 2.5mm Twin & Earth mains cable. It needs suitably sized "F" plugs to make the terminations.

[tony draper]

Ah ok, I have some interesting cable about the place contains four separate coaxials plus multi pairs we used it on CCTV installations,the daft thing about it was none of the multi pairs were colour coded so all had to be rung out.
:uhoh: