Chopper down in Suburban Sydney

[Ultralights]

Just heard through the car radio, a helicopter has crashed in Turramurra, Sydney, with reports of fatalities. Condolences to all. :{
Be careful out there people.. :uhoh:

[CharlieNovemberTango]

It's hit the papers now - Two dead in helicopter crash on Sydney's north shore (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/two-dead-in-helicopter-crash-on-sydneys-north-shore-20110722-1hro9.html)

[Track5milefinal]

2 Fatalities confirmed... looked nasty on the 11am news... wreckage strewn everywhere.... Condolences to the families involved :(

[b_sta]

Right in the middle of the lane of entry too. Couldn't think of much of a worse place to need to put down given any issues in this sort of weather. Condolences.

[Trojan1981]

Pretty sure I saw this just before it happened. I was driving nearby and saw a B206 flying north, scud running, it suddenly turned south and descended into the bush. I remember thinking that it was unusual, but went on with my day. Unless this was another helo investigating, it must have been the one.

Not a good result. RIP guys.

[Ultralights]

A few updates on tonights news suggesting it was a mechanical failure. a large number of witnesses report seeing something come off the aircraft before it appeared to lose control and crash..:(

[Horatio Leafblower]

Hey Ultralights,

There was also mention of a wire strike - I thought it was pretty ambiguous as to whether it happened before or after the "bit" fell off.

Bad news :suspect:

[bentleg]

If you look at Webtrack for Sydney (http://webtrak.bksv.com/syd)0900 - 0916 local time 22/7 you can see him fly east along the Parramatta river then turn north into the lane up the valley. He then weaves and sometimes backtracks as he proceeds up the valley. Scud running I suspect. The movements immediately prior to the crash are exceptional.

There is more commentary in this Rotorheads thread (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/458065-helicopter-crash-near-sydney-22-july-2011-a.html).

[PyroTek]

Bentleg, I noticed that on webtrak, unless it is being innaccurate, it showed the chopper climbing from 830ft~ to about 1600ft in the last few moments of the flight... :confused:

[D-J]

Bentleg, I noticed that on webtrak, unless it is being innaccurate, it showed the chopper climbing from 830ft~ to about 1600ft in the last few moments of the flight...

Would support the idea of inadvertent IMC and subsequent lost of control causing the main rotor to strike the tail, could explain the witness sightings of something falling from the aircraft.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

inadvertent IMC

How do you do that?

Dr :8

[neville_nobody]

From the eyewitness report on the radio it sounded like the tail rotor separated for some reason and it just speared in.

[Avid Aviator]

Didn't know either of those involved, but my sympathy to their families.

I was listening to this on area freq as I went overhead shortly afterwards. The rescue chopper was attempting to get overhead to winch a medic down to check if there were any survivors. He had to ask the 4 media choppers over the scence repeatedly - more than 3 times - to move clear of the site so they could safely get in; Wx conditions were very poor.

I know the media drivers have a job to do, but to deliberately obstruct rescue attempts (fatalities had not been confiremd at this stage) is very poor form. They are fellow aviator's lives you could have been jeopardising!! The rescue pilot made it clear he could not get in for a winch while visually separating from so many other aircraft in marginal visibilty. He asked you repeatedly to clear the area over and to the south but you ignored this and ATC requests. Very unprofessional and callous. I won't list callsigns but I hope you are ashamed of yourselves - I was disgusted.

[Kulwin Park]

I was listening to this on area freq as I went overhead shortly afterwards. The rescue chopper was attempting to get overhead to winch a medic down to check if there were any survivors. He had to ask the 4 media choppers over the scence repeatedly - more than 3 times - to move clear of the site so they could safely get in; Wx conditions were very poor.

I know the media drivers have a job to do, but to deliberately obstruct rescue attempts (fatalities had not been confiremd at this stage) is very poor form. They are fellow aviator's lives you could have been jeopardising!! The rescue pilot made it clear he could not get in for a winch while visually separating from so many other aircraft in marginal visibilty. He asked you repeatedly to clear the area over and to the south but you ignored this and ATC requests. Very unprofessional and callous. I won't list callsigns but I hope you are ashamed of yourselves - I was disgusted.

Condolences to the 2 victims and families. Work colleagues of mine knew one of them personally :(

BUT WHAT I READ ABOUT MEDIA CHOPPERS ABOVE NOT MOVING OUT OF THE WAY FOR THE RESCUE CHOPPER ON 1ST INBOUND CALL IS UNBELIEVABLE !!!! I hope they are personally identified in a mission report put forward by the Rescue Chopper Pilot, and the media cop a fine for not allowing possible rescue attempts and life saving to be conducted !!! :*

KP

[Trojan1981]

Guys, this has been a common problem with news helicopters. They have a job to do and have, at times, formed part of the SAR response; but more often than not they get in the way.

I have experienced this on firebombing ops, where we have had great difficultly separating news helos from bombers and FAC aircraft. Our last ditch procedure is simply to pack up and go home, leaving the news helos at the scene alone, and report to CASA, the police and the coroner. This puts the onus on the news pilot and leaves them open to prosecution on multiple levels.

[Tidbinbilla]

Avid Aviator,

I doubt hat you would be criticised for naming and shaming the callsigns and company names of these unprofessional organisations.

We don't need this kind of trash in our industry.

[zanthrus]

Sure Tid, then he would be banned from PPrune for slandering persons/ companies etc.

[Jack Ranga]

No, probably not. He just has to post with no comment.

Recordings are kept on all of those frequencies. Facts are facts.

[PyroTek]

Sure Tid, then he would be banned from PPRuNe for slandering persons/ companies etc.

Is mentioning a callsign/Rego classified as slandering a company?

[Tidbinbilla]

zanthrus, as Jack wrote... Posting without comment is fine. :O

[Sunfish]

Haven't any of you learned anything from the Murdoch press debacle???

The job of the media is to get the story, no matter what! If said chopper pilot consistently does not "push in" and get comparable images to the other media helicopters, he will be looking for another job before too long.

[trackdirect]

An eyewitness report stated that the aircraft was inverted when a part was seen to fall off....
Underslung teetering rotor heads as are fitted to the Bell 206 series are very unstable when unloaded or upside down, If the aircraft became inverted the main rotor blades would have cut off the tailboom just behind the horizontal stabiliser.
This would have been the part seen to have "fallen off" the aircraft.

Heard today from people on the ground .... the tail rotor and vertical fin assembly were located around 50-100 metres from the main impact site.......

[Worrals in the wilds]

The job of the media is to get the story, no matter what! If said chopper pilot consistently does not "push in" and get comparable images to the other media helicopters, he will be looking for another job before too long. Then the job of the regulator is to teach them some manners. Off you go, CASA! Of course those recordings are not in the public domain as they are in the US, so maybe ASA can be helpful in this regard...without recourse to defamation. :hmm: Slander refers to spoken word, not internet publishing.

Either way, if true, it is despicable behaviour.

[tjhawkeye]

Avid Aviator of Sydney Harbour, Kulwin Park, Trojan 981, Tidbinbilla, Zanthus, Jack Ranga, Pyrotek, Sunfish, Worrals in the wild.

Where did you all get your facts to slag off the media helicopters that were at the Sydney accident scenr?
Did you ring up the Rescue Helicopter to confirm the facts and not the hearsay report of Avid Aviator?
Did you ring up Polair to confirm the facts and not the hearsay put forward by Avid Aviator?
No !!!
I didn't think so.
If you had you would have been told that when the rescue helicopter neared the scene the three (not four) media helicopters vacated the area and actually guided the Rescue Helicopter in to the scene. The media helicopters then remained away from the scene until the Rescue helicopter left the area.
I was there !!! Get your facts right before dishing the mud on fellow pilots or keep your big mouths shut.
I feel disgusted that derogatory comments are made on hearsay and not facts. You all should be ashamed not the media pilots who did all they could to help.

[Jack Ranga]

As I said, it's all recorded. If the facts come out as you say then the person on here that indicated otherwise will be seen for what he/she is.

Appropriate action can then be taken against the individual. The internet is not completely anonymous.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Where did you all get your facts to slag off the media helicopters that were at the Sydney accident scenr?That's why I said 'if true'. Media choppers (and the media in general) have a justifiably bad reputation for getting in the way.
If they assisted in this case then well done to them.

Avid Aviator posted what he had heard on the frequency. That is not hearsay. It might be BS and so might your post (or any post on this site), but it's not hearsay. If he had posted what a friend had told him he had heard on frequency, that would be hearsay.
Hearsay (http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch11s06s01s02.php)

[Avid Aviator]

tjhawkeye,

It's not hearsay, it's what I heard first hand.

You are correct when you say the helicopters did move out of the way and I also agree that they were providing some information about the accident site to Rescue.

However: There were four choppers + Rescue, total of 5.

The first 2 or 3 requests to vacate overhead were replied to with traffic information, despite Rescue clearly stating he wasn't coming in until the traffic was out of the way. This delayed their approach to the scene by several minutes.

When the media choppers finally moved they headed south, despite Rescue repeatedly stating he was approaching from the south and needed the traffic to vacate in a different direction (preferably to the east - he was very clear with his requirements).

But you'd know this if you were there....

I stand by my comments and was very disappointed in the behaviour of a few fellow aviators.

[Worrals in the wilds]

I wasn't there, but just curious...is it possible that one or more of them were a bit freaked out, rather than being deliberately obstructive?

Accidents with injuries / fatalities are confusing and stressful places to be even when you're on the ground, let alone flying a chopper attending a chopper accident, which would be a heck of a lot more confronting than run-of-the-mill factory fires and traffic jams.

[tjhawkeye]

Avid Aviator.
If you had been at the scene you would have known that the only way in or out (because of the weather) was to the south.
On leaving the scene the Rescue Helicopter thanked the media helicopters for their help.
Much of the conversations were on 120.8 which you must not have heard otherwise you would not be bad mouthing fellow pilots doing their best in very sad circumstances.