Deck Landings

[CyclicRick]

Any nice little tips on deck landings from you naval types out there?
Yes, I've drawn the short straw and have to take a 206 down to Egypt this week for a month which will involve landing on bloody great tankers full of the black stuff.

Ta! :)

[sandy helmet]

We do occasional tanker support using an Astar, and its not too traumatic.......

1. The shipping company or agent will provide ship's details on request beforehand, to determine the deck setup - whether the landing is to port or starboard etc. Usually the helidecks are on the forward third of the ship.

2. Marine VHF is very helpful. Call up to determine winds across the deck, and how much, if any, of pitch, roll and heave the ship is experiencing.

3. You can request the ship turn to a heading that will allow you to make an into the wind landing.

4. Typically, the approach procedure is to circle the ship, and make your finals from astern at an oblique angle (in case you need to go around). In the case of skidded helicopters, remember that the deck itself may be sloped or angled, and sometimes slippery, so beware of ground resonance or sliding across it.

5. Your ships crew, if there is an approved helideck, should be well trained in helicopter movements - our company does like to take one of our own trained ground crewmen whenever we can.

6. For departure, pull to a high hover, if possible back away and align the helicopter with the direction of ships travel, which will mean accepting a right or left quartering wind, and depart over the water, keeping away from the ship. (Captains aren't very keen on take offs over their decks or superstructures).

Some other points - Personally, I like to plan my fuel very carefully, as I like to have as much available power as possible, especially in a single.
There may be lots of bollards, stanchions, pipes and rails which can make you slightly uncomfortable in a good wind, but just keep your eyes open.
If the ship is under way, there maybe a brief visual clue transition from a stationary to a moving horizon.
If you have to be sat on deck for a while, and there is a noticeable swell, there is a chance that you may get seasick - this happened to me once.

Hope this helps, and good luck!!

[KENNYR]

Everything Sandy said plus........if the boat has an experienced heli handling crew then obey their signals/commands unless you feel that the aircraft is in danger by doing so. You will soon know if the crew is experienced! Time your landing, especially in a skidded machine to coincide with the boat reaching its highest point on the swell (does that make sense?). DON'T touch down as the boat is rising!!!

[Moneyshot]

Deck landings.. Where do you start??
Sandy has covered quite a lot of it. I've never landed anything as small as a 206 on a pitching, heaving deck before, being an ex Sea King driver.(I would expect the 206 to twitch rather than wallow in the lee of the super-structure).
Things to watch out for would be turbulence in the lee. Try to give yourself a red 45 degree relative wind and approach from the left.
Be ready to go around if the turbulence gets beyond your own personally set limits (avoid pumping the lever and over-torquing).
You're landing with wind from the left so think about pedal limits and yaw control in turbulence (power off in the 206 I think so should have spare pedal to play with).
Smoke from the stacks might come into play at some point so stay low as you move over the deck.
Salt-spray ingestion might be a problem if you spend too much time hovering along side.
Let the ship's movement settle before moving over the deck. It may look rough at first but it WILL settle 'trust me.'
Whilst along side pick your 'bum-line' (Probably one marked) and your 'eye-line' (possibly marked on the ship ahead of the flight deck). Without conning from the rear you will need these for visual references as you lose sight of the deck beneath you (talking mainly large helo here).
In turbulence, dont be afraid of making a firm landing. Avoids those pesky rollover problems.
If your machine has a stab/SAS etc, disengage it immediately after landing as it will try to compensate for deck movement. Likewise leave it till last before taking off.
Avoid looking at the propellers as they come out of the water I guarantee it will put you off.
Have a plan for in case you ditch.
These are some of the more extreme problems you might face but if it's a nice day and the sea is smooth, you'll walk it, Enjoy!!

[burger]

As an add-on to all the rest of very good replys ...............

I plan to overfly the ship at 1000' 80kts to insure the hatch is clear and to identify it. Fly a right hand ctt (B206) reducing to 60kts by end of down wind leg turn right for the base leg arm floats and start a 500' rate of decent aimimg for the first gate of 500' 60kts turn final and reduce rate of decent to 300'/min 45kts.

You'll find in this configuration the aircraft will fly it's self to the touch down point nicely with no large pitch pull at the bottom. As was said before stay ahead of the aircraft at all times incase the noise stops as your reaction time is critical for a successful auto.

Be aware of where your tail rotor will be on landing as some decks have limited access points and of course obsticals (railings beside ladders) etc..........

I use this for night ship transfers as well.

On departing lift to hover, last instrument check, pull smoothly to 100% confirm positive rate of climb, nose over to 5-7% wait for airspeed to increase to 60kts check rate of climb is always positive and maitain this till 1000' then reduce power to cruise and turn homeward unarm floats.

Doing night take-offs from a ship on a moonless night in a B206 is something else! Safe flying :D

[zalt]

As Burger has said - some top quality advice.

Don't forget to watch the ship's crew like a hawk when rotors running and if on the deck for some time remember that changes in wind-over-deck direction can build up subtly (its difficult to spot a VLCC changing direction).

[Arm out the window]

Re the fuel planning - consider emergencies like hydraulics; it's good to have a land-based diversion available.

[Lu Zuckerman]

I can’t speak from pilots’ perspective but I rode as a passenger or, I directed the landing from the flight deck. I operated off of the CGC Mackinaw on the Great Lakes and the CGC Eastwind off the coasts of Greenland and Northern Canada. On the Mackinaw the pilots could come in from the left or right of the after deck or, they could come in over the stern as there were no obstructions and the beam of the ship was around 74 feet at the after deck area. The Eastwind was another story. It was very seldom that the helicopters (HO3-S 1G and Bell HTL-1 B-47) could land on the centerline coming in over the stern. In most cases they had to land athwart ships trying to maintain a track with the moving ship and trying to dodge a big crane and or, cable stays for the main mast. The Captain of the ship would not adjust his course to allow an over the stern landing and this was true especially if they were breaking ice. Breaking ice also introduced another problem. The ship was equipped with very large water tanks and very powerful pumps. During ice breaking the pumps would circulate the water to the various tanks around the ship. This would cause the ship to pitch up or down and / or roll at a very rapid rate so that even though the helicopter was level and moving along a sideward track the pilot had to thread the helicopter through the obstacles to hit a moving deck. This was further complicated by the turbulent airflow coming down the center of the ship. To make matters worse the HO3S only had parking brakes and those were not very effective with a rolling ship and a helicopter whose rotors were still turning. We had to capture the helicopter as soon as it touched the deck and place tie downs to secure it to the deck.

During take off they would lift off vertically and move to the right while climbing. On one occasion the HTL lifted off and allowed the ship to move out from under the helicopter. Over the flight deck the helicopter was in ground effect but when the ship moved forward the helicopter was about 40 feet above the water and out of ground effect. It was the pilots’ lucky day, as he did not get his floats wet. Maybe his shorts got a bit wet.

:eek:

[GLSNightPilot]

It amazes me that they can build a ship that large but provide such a small landing area. VLCC's & ULCC's don't move at all when loaded, so don't worry about pitching decks. They are extremely stable, even in heavy seas. When empty, they present a huge surface area to the wind, so they may rock side to side to some extent in high winds. The heliport on a supertanker is normally on the port side just forward of amidships, & usually clearly marked. There may or may not be a landing area on the starboard side, but that is often a winch-only area. I have seen a cantilivered heliport on the stern of one ship, but only one. That should be the requirement - it's wonderful compared to the forward landing area, which has one way in & one way out, & that's mostly downwind, especially if lightering, since the VLCC takes the daughter tanker on the starboard side, & makes a lee for it so there is less movement between the ships. Thus, you mostly land downwind, into a very small, highly obstructed area, & there are lots of skid obstructions, hatches only a few inches high but enough to bend the skid if you land on it. I have refused to land while the tanker was in its current configuration, because there was too much tailwind component. The captain didn't want to turn, but when I explained that I was taking his relief back to the shore, he changed his mind. :cool:

Be very careful, but it's not usually that difficult. I haven't landed a 206 on a tanker in some years, but I've been landing S76's & B412's on them, & if the area is big enough for a medium, it's easy for a 206. Some areas are really too tight for a 206, though, so take it slow on the approach & make sure you see everything. :eek:

[Bladestrike]

Being farely new to deck landings myself, I'm not too sure if this advice will benefit or is even correct, but I was giving the following lesson that seems to work if the deck is moving at all.

As I started to come into the hover over the deck (it was near our SOP limits for pitch, roll and heave) the Captain asked me to watch the deck. Of course using the deck for reference soon had me overcontrolling and all over the place, and that was the point of the lesson. Watching the horizon and monitoring the deck though my periphral vision worked much, much better, and allow the deck to move around below you, timing your landing as in the above posts. And if its dark and low vis, I've found you can sort of look through the ship, to its imaginary center, and use that as a point of reference. There always seems to be a lull in the movement as well if you watch for a pattern. Do you fellows with alot of time doing this sort of thing agree?

I get green as well if I spend too long on a heaving deck, and it seems much worse in low vis/ heavy rain/ fogged up windows....

I don't know how you Navy types do it.

[Lu Zuckerman]

In the early 1940s the US Coast Guard trained pilots from the US Navy, the US Army as well as pilots from the British forces. In anticipation of placing helicopters on ships for North Atlantic convoy patrol they devised a three-degree of freedom deck to simulate the pitching, heaving and rolling of a ships deck. All of the pilots had to be qualified on the simulator. Perhaps some commercial training facility should build another one and offer their training services. Also for maximum simulation this one should be mounted on a truck bed or on a large flatbed trailer to simulate the forward movement of the ship.

:)

[CyclicRick]

There is alot of sound advice for me to digest, many thanks chaps.
By the look of the photos I've seen sofar you could get a squadron of 206's on most of the decks and they all seem to be, as said, port side forward of midships.
Most of the time the VLCC's will only be 8-12 NM offshore so I'll be able to take a light fuel load.
Thanks once again

Rick

[Mike Hardy]

There has been enough good advice to fill a book, so I'll attempt to keep this brief.

If you have the option, consider flying overwater with the doors off. It will make it easier to get out if the unthinkable happens. In 1997 I was the first on scene to a USN OH-58C that rolled over on takeoff (it was on floats) into the Patuxent River. The airframe deformed to a point where they couldn't jettison the doors. Fortunately they made it out through the windshield area (the windshields were gone). It was an awfully long 20-30 seconds between the time they rolled over and when I saw the crew emerge on the surface.

From my days in the Navy, I seem to recall we always flew the 206 from the deck with the doors off.

[Paul McKeksdown]

All good stuff, but one thing you probably should be aware of!

Many of the large tankers have nets strung across the landing sites, this goes for Rigs as well. Initially seems a good idea for deck grip on a painted surface, however in some cases there is a darker side.(From the point of the aircrew) I have seen where, on oil tankers, the net is connected to a winch which is used to remove the burning wreckage of your helicopter as fast as possible off of the deck of a large floating bomb!

Just for info!

Have fun

[GLSNightPilot]

Be careful on the light fuel load. When we go out, all we get usually is a center of lightering area location, & the ship may or may not be there. I've seen them 60 nm off - they were off a whole degree on longitude. 10 or more miles is not at all unusual, & at least down here in the Gulf there may be 8 or 10 VLCC's in the area, all lightering, & you have to find the one you're looking for in the herd. An extra half hour (better an hour) of fuel is warranted.

And the decks may be large, but the obstacles are many. Look out.

[kissmysquirrel]

GLSNightPilot:
I beg to differ. VLCC's etc do move when loaded, rolling up to 45 degrees. I can say this from experience having spent the last thirteen years working on them. (try two days just after new year, hove-to just off newfoundland in 12m+ swells!!) The wind has very little effect on the movement of the vessel.

I've joined and left many tankers by helicopter (not me flying unfortunately) but the deck area is usually large enough for a smallish helo such as the 206/407 right up to S76 etc. I once joined by Coast Guard Dauphin off Rotterdam, 50 miles offshore, v.bad viz, rain, wind, middle of winter, everyone else on helo in immersion gear, me in tee shirt and jeans? (I admired how professional the pilots were. ) There are often very small sounding pipes (sometimes unpainted) approx. 6-8 inches tall surrounding the Landing pad and these are fairly strong and not likely to break off if you catch one. One other point is that the Landing pad is often marked out (ringed) in lighter coloured paint and diameters painted in for reference. A good company will have a heli landing crew standing by, ready with fire fighting eqpt. etc plus the large pair of well oiled bolt cutters. The ships railings beside the pad are often unfastened and laid flat for better clearance. (or for the helicopter to fall/get pushed over the side more easily?)
As long as there is enough room, the ships Master will nearly always be able to turn the ship to give a reasonable headwind component, usually from the port forward quarter. We always rig a windsock from the fwd mast too.

CyclicRick:
I envy you. My aim is to be able to do the same one day and not have to spend 4 months onboard after landing for a change. Have a good time.

[Harry Peacock]

Yet more for your consideration!! After doing and teaching for years there are many different ways of skinning the DL cat! Here are a few of my hints to add to the rest

First thing is always check the landing area well before committing to a landing. As previously stated little pipes, bits of rope etc are always appearing even in well prepared areas.
Watch the ship movement for a while,a roll/pitch or corkscrew does not continue, it follows a cycle of several increasing movements and then settling out before starting again, you want to use this quiet period.
Into wind is good for approaches but not if the ship is between you and the wind. I've seen a small UK carrier create enough turbulence to bend a stationary rotor blade up and over the rotor head. approach allong the windward side of the ship and depart to the same side. a relative wind about 30 deg of the ships head is usualy good. Also it will keep you out of the ship exhaust which does no good to your power output and usualy tastes like @$#%.
Don't try to follow the deck up or down or side to side, again as stated use the horizon to keep a relative hover attitude stable and try to keep a steady power. Getting in to a full hover before you move in to obstructions is easier than trying to establish one in amongst obstacles over a moving deck.
Make a positive landing don't try to grease it on, Stab/SAS out and use lashings if available (Just remember to take them off before launch) Again aircraft can slip even on full non slip flight decks. (Seaking on Hermes during the Falklands got the tail wheel 5 feet out allong a gantry whilst running when the ship rolled!!)
Take off be positive but not a moon shot. Lift off the deck to a comfortable height, do checks then depart you don't want to realise something is wrong just as you leave the only landing site for miles around.
Depart clear of the superstructure then KEEP climbing (Again a friend failed to at night and flew in to the sea!!)

It's not a black art but just precision handling of your aircraft but with moving targets, remember the ship is a lot bigger than you and has a lot more mass. They all move cos 'so does the 'Oggin and no two waves are alike.

Have fun and take it carefully!!:) :)

[GLSNightPilot]

Maybe it's just me, but I've never been able to land or take off successfully offshore by looking out at the horizon. I've landed on just about everything that moves over the last 20 years - seismic boats, drilling tenders, barges, drillling rigs, tankers, & what have you, many of them pitching a lot, plus a few tens of thousands of platforms, & the only way I've been able to do it is to concentrate on the landing area, & make that look like its stationary. From the altitude required on many of these, sometimes > 200 ft MSL, I just can't get enough visual cues. I don't know any other pilots who look at the horizon. I look close in, & I can keep my movement relative to the landing area to a minimum. If you try to look at the horizon while landing on a tanker at night, I don't want to be close enough to be hit by the shrapnel.

[Go-Around]

Is this something to be aware of? (http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/special/gbkze/gbkze.htm)

[LordGrumpy]

So whose got video's of these clever displays of manouvering?
The question needs no repeating, and you cannot stand easy, at the double!

[zalt]

Go-Around: The big issue with the 'West Navion' was that the DPS failed and the drillship effectively rotated around the heavy submerged drill sting - so its not not directly relavent to an underway tanker.

There was some pretty disgusting abuse hurled at the crew by Flight International's 'expert' who suggested they should have been lashed down on deck (!!) which I'm glad to say was stamped on by several letter writers (including the AAIB).

[peterperfect]

Sorry to be a bore chaps, theres been a lot of good advice so far on this matter regarding techniques; things that will bite you in the arse etc, however have you considered a few reference publications?

I've also listed a few questions the lawyers will use to try and take your children's inheritance away with:

Did the pilot study CAP 437 Offshore landing Areas Chapter 9 (Vessels) and/or the International Chamber of shipping Guide to Helo/Ship Ops?.

Who is the owning oil company, have they surveyed the helo deck recently and is the helo insurance cover sufficient ? current rates for offshore vessels fully laden plus environmental damages are astronomical.

Did the pilot contact BHAB for advice ?, they might hold a deck survey of the vessel concerned.

Watch out for the flying avoid North of Alexandria Airport over the Mil Academy/Hospital if you are operating that way.

If you are flying pax, are you offshore equipped/floats/ELTs etc?

I said sorry to be a bore, I'm not a lawyer, just a WAFU trying to keep you out of trouble...........enjoy it....

[Flying Lawyer]

The knowledge and experience on this forum never ceases to amaze me. I'm only a PPL, so I can only daydream about attempting a deck landing, but reading the advice is fascinating.

BTW, peterperfect's legal advice is good.

Tudor Owen

[Lu Zuckerman]

A friend of mine sent me a miniature movie. It shows a CH-46 coming in very fast to a landing on the deck of a ship (Perhaps an LHA). He approaches the deck at an angle instead of coming to a hover in line with the ships centerline and then moving sideways keeping in line with the ships centerline. His nose gear hit hard and either he bounced or he pulled collective and tried to align with the centerline of his parking space.

In the process he came to a hover with half of his discs over the flight deck and half over the water. As a result he rolled to the left and fell over backwards into the water hitting upside down. It ended there with two high-speed boats heading for the impact point. I have no idea if there was any loss of life. I’m sorry I do not have the URL.

[zhishengji751]

6 Marines and one sailor died. The Sea Knight sank after about 40 seconds, and eventually settled on the ocean floor.

The Marines were preparing to rope down onto the deck.

All the crew survived.

Basically it came down to coming in to low and too fast.

[GLSNightPilot]

Lu, I've made a number of landings on seismic boats & other vessels with the heliport on the stern. IME, coming in at an angle is the only proper way to do it. You stay out of the turbulence at the stern caused by the wind coming over the ship, and it's just easier for me. The last time I ever tried to land from dead astern was when I tried to do it at night, & the lights on the stern completely blinded me. I don't like coming to a hover & then moving sideways. I do it if it's the only way to land, & it sometimes is on offshore rigs with the heliport on the downwind side & obstacles all around, but not if I have any choice. It just requires too much power to do the hover, & if an engine fails, you're going to be very, very busy.

[peterperfect]

Hey guys,

Most procedures and practices involving safe deck ops revolve around poor adherence to lessons learned elsewhere, spread the wealth and everyone benefits.

The first thread asked for advice about preventing mishaps to decks, by asking those with experience to contribute. Lets focus on providing advice......we all know the toughest call in aviation is often asking the damn question, lets answer it !!!

[Triple Matched TQ]

If you are going to hover alongside the ship before landing (waiting for the ships quiescent period) - wait for the 7th wave and the flight deck should steady up, maybe to even within limits!

It does work honest:cool:

[Lu Zuckerman]

Probably the best system devised for landing on a pitching deck is the Bear Trap developed by the Canadians and used on all of the Spruance Class Destroyers in the US Navy. In this system the helicopter is winched down to the deck. The American system further expanded on the design and uses the bear trap as a trolley and it drags the helicopter into the flight deck hanger freeing up the flight deck for the second helicopter.

The system as originally designed, (when I was involved), would compensate for pitching and heaving of the flight deck. When the stern went down the cable would be paid out and when it went up the cable would be reefed in so that the helicopter would be independent of the ships motion. In each case the cable would be reefed in more than it was paid out and eventually the helicopter would be pulled down to the deck.

:cool:

[cpt]

The company I am flying for, is considering landings on oil tankers on a regular basis.
I am a bit concerned about the variety of certifications, helideck trainings, communications procedures .....
Although our main activity is an offshore operation, we have never landed on tankers else than FSO/FPSO (with specialy dedicated helideck modification) untill now.
Does anybody has advise or experience on this matter ?
Thanks !

[CyclicRick]

I asked the exact same question a couple of years back and got loads of great answers and help from the folks out there, try and find my post..I think it was titled "Deck landings"

Rick

:ok:

[Farmer 1]

Cpt,

You don't say where in the world. If you need a 210 degree clear arc, then forget it.

[Twisted Rigging]

Has been done in the UK for a number of years with a Bolkow.

[cpt]

Thank you for your answers, this operation is located offshore of Africa, but oil tankers fleet is international. Helicopter is S76. I assume that the same norms (ie cap 437, ICAO annex 14...) than with helidecks ops would apply here, but with some more restrictions.
I already have a brochure "guide to helicopter/ship ops" from the International Chamber of Shipping, but it is vague about sectors and structural resistance.
Sorry Rick, I would like a private message, but I am not clever enough for this facility on this forum ;) ....

[GLSNightPilot]

Can't help you with the regs where you are, but a couple of things I've discovered:

The heliport will be very, very tight. When they tell you "No worries, it's the world's largest tanker", don't believe it. Ship size has nothing to do with heliport size. I've landed very close beside a prop stored on deck, much larger than an S76. In any case, the clear area will be barely enough, with all sorts of pipes, cranes and other odd masses of steel. Make your approach very, very slow, and always be prepared and able to go around.

Practice your slope landings. The decks have a pronounced slope. Not dangerous unless you release the brakes, but do not do that.

Watch out for the ship turning while you're on the deck. The crosswind you landed with can become a tailwind before you're ready to take off.

No matter what the ship's captain says, he can turn it for you so you can get a favorable wind, especially if you have his relief on board and threaten to return to shore.

[cpt]

These are very valuable informations based on experience, thank you...I myself instinctivly feel reluctant in such operation given these conditions....rotor hazard, lack of room, longer periods in height/speed diagramm,sloped decks, different levels of ground crew training level, vague deck certification. It looks more like aerial work than passenger transportation, with definetly a downgraded level in safety compared with a standard offshore job.
Sorry but I still couldn't find how to "pm" on this forum...:*
All other infos will be welcome !

[[email protected]]

The moving vessel will create its own wind which can be markedly different from the real surface wind - anything on the vessel (smoke, flags, windsock etc) will give a good indication of this relative wind - this is the one that you want to be pointing into for the landing if possible. The superstructure of the vessel can cause a lot of turbulence which can be very strong so beware - but most tankers seem to have the superstructure at the aft end so it shouldn't affect a HLS mounted amidships.
The vessel can pitch, roll and heave (vertical movement), the bigger the sea the worse it gets and the heave is the one which might catch you out as the deck rises to meet you.

[Gomer Pylot]

I haven't experienced much heave on VLCCs and ULCCs, especially loaded. A loaded supertanker doesn't move up and down enough to be perceptible, even in fairly high seas. An empty one may roll if the wind is directly abeam, though.

You do want to be aware of the ship's movement as you approach. If you approach from the bow, with the ship moving toward you, the approach can get very steep very quickly, and approaching from the stern means it can get very shallow, as the ship moves underneath you. It's not difficult to adjust to it with some practice, and some forethought, though.

Make sure you have a radio for the marine VHF band, with at least Channel 16 (hailing frequency) and one other, for communicating with the ship. You don't want to land without permission, and without knowing they're ready for you. It's also nice to know the ship's position, which may or may not be within a degree of latitude or longitude of what the agent gave you. Shipping agents lie like rugs.

[paco]

I would have thought that being able to hover OGE while you inspect the deck would be a good one

Phil

[MightyGem]

Sorry but I still couldn't find how to "pm" on this forum
Most people have a "Private Msg" button on their posts. Click on this button to send them a PM. You don't have this button on yours, so people can't send you a PM. You need to edit your account and tick on the "Accept PMs" box.

[[email protected]]

Gomer Pylot - I guess you don't get very big sea states in the GOM - tankers may be big enough to have their own time zones, magnetic variation and tides but they still float so if the sea goes up and down so will the tanker.

[Oogle]

Cpt

I think the first thing you have to realise with some of the "ships" you will encounter (especially off Africa) is that some will not be up to scratch. Be ready for the really tight landing sites and non-trained deckcrew.

From what I understand, the UK CAP's only apply to UK registered machines so unless your S-76 is G-reg, the CAP don't apply.

...I myself instinctivly feel reluctant in such operation given these conditions....rotor hazard, lack of room, longer periods in height/speed diagramm,sloped decks, different levels of ground crew training level, vague deck certification.

You will get all of this on some landings so be prepared for it.

Good luck with your venture and keep your eyes open!!:ok:

[HeliEagle]

Hi all,

We are going to update the numbers in our OM, the numbers are the Max. pitch, roll, heave of the moving vessel or paltform when doing normal flight and typhoon EVAC. Any recommendations?

Thanks!

[rotorque]

Hi mate,

We use 3 degrees of roll for night ops and 5 degrees of roll for day stuff..... having said that, we are landing on anything from 45000 to 210000 tonne ships so pitch/heave isn't usually a problem as we turn them stern to swell etc... hope this helps

Cheers

[Teefor Gage]

HeliEagle

Although 3 degrees might be a guideline, it would help if you told us what machine you intend to operate. A super-puma, high c of g and narrow wheel base, will generally roll over much earlier than a bell 212, lower c of g, skids etc....

[HeliEagle]

Thank,
And we are operating S-76. Often take-off and land on FPSO in rough sea conditions.

Cheers

[gulliBell]

I've landed the S76 with 10 degrees of pitch/roll and then seen it go to 12 deg whilst on the deck and it behaved OK, just need to be aware that if it's a wet steel deck it will slide after 10degrees in the fore/aft axis so you'll need to chock or sandbag the wheels. As for turning the AP's off or leaving them on, I think most SOP's have them off. Heave hasn't been much of a factor either as the undercarriage can take alot of punishment if you misjudge it.

[Teefor Gage]

S76 on moving deck in rough seas

I'm sure you wont need reminding that the rotor disk of the S76 can cause problems during passenger handling on a stable surface. Not sure I would want to handle passengers with a S76 on a deck moving 10 degrees!!

rotorque
Can you confirm that the 10 degrees was total movement. ie 5 degrees either side of vertical. 10 degrees either side sound pretty worrying!!

As for the AP. It should normally be OFF on any moving deck as soon as you land until just before lift otherwise the AP will be fighting the deck motion and causing big problems to anybody wandering around beneath the rotor disk....
Besides the pitch, roll and heave of the deck, you should also consider the maximum wind across the deck for safe handling of passengers. From 45 knots upwards on a smooth wet deck people can soon start sliding around.

[HeliEagle]

Thank all

Teefor
"Not sure I would want to handle passengers with a S76 on a deck moving 10 degrees!!"
Yes, I agree with you. But for some particular cases, such as Typhoon evacation from a FPSO in a very bad condition(although our customers should do it early), maybe we can require the passengers creep into the helicopter.:oh:

Cheers

[rotorque]

Teefor,

Yes mate, 5 degrees either side of vertical for day ops, 3 for night..... I think it was Gullibell that quoted the 10 degrees.

Cheers

[gulliBell]

Example cited was definitely 10deg either side of vertical, referenced by the AHRS/EADI which is pretty accurate! I think we had an SOP limit of 6deg but it was a crew change day and you know those guys will always report pitch/roll/heave below limits when they want to go home. Once you're on the deck and you find it's going 12deg either way (i.e. double what was reported) and there're pax crawling around on the deck and the doors are open then your options are limited. But the aircraft was stable up to 10deg, although obviously I wouldn't write that as a limit in the SOP's because 10deg in pitch axis and the S76 will start to slide off a slick deck (vessel in question was a small seismic with aft deck).

[Nigel Osborn]

The 76 would have to be one of the best helicopters for landing on moving decks. Most companies seem to use 10 degrees roll as max but if the occasion warrants it, this should not be taken to be an out & out max figure. I have seen a roll of 15 degrees with 25 degrees pitch up & 12 degrees pitch down with about 90 feet of swell, that figure came from the pressure alt, so it could have been higher. The nose wheel extended quite a bit on the pitch up but nevertheless the 76 sat very solidly. The deck had a rope net & the 76 did not slide at all. I don't think another machine could have handled those conditions as well as the 76. Obviously it was not easy for the pax to climb aboard, in fact they crawled in to avoid the blades. It was that or drown when the rig sank 30 minutes later.

[spencer17]

I just came back from the RV "Polarstern" last week. We where operating between S 35° and S 53° in the Atlantic Ocean (not the calmest area ;-))
Our cruise was from Punta Arenas (Chile) to Capetown (SA) and took about 9 weeks (no land in sight for 8,5 weeks)
There are two BO105 CBS 5 stationed on the vessel. We did a lot of flying for earth magnetic measurements with a sensor about 100' below the helicopter.
Take-offs and landings are performed up to about 30 kts relative wind. Without sling load we do it up to 40 kts. I didn'd really look what the bank of the ship was but I think something around 10° to 15° either side is ok for a 105. We have a rope net on the helideck and tie it down all the time when on the ground. I personally love flying from the ship.

[Oogle]

Any recommendations?? Yes -

Take your time and pick the right ship "attitude".

[Broadcast Control]

Some of the roll and pitch angles you claim to use are unbelievable. It is scary to see that some pilots have so little respect for operating limitations.

On this link:" http://www.oilc.org/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=127 " the following article can be found:

The copilot of a CHC Scotia Super Puma sustained a serious leg injury, and the aircraft was badly damaged, when it rolled over on the helideck of the drillship West Navion. The vessel was operating for BP and located some 6Onm west of Shetland when the incident occurred on 10 November. Tasked with picking up 12 passengers, these waiting to board for transportation back to Aberdeen, the aircraft had been refuelled rotors-running with the copilot supervising and the captain at the controls when the accident occurred. Sources advise that at the time there were some 35 knots of wind and a moderate sea state, plus a reported heave of some 10-12 feet for the bow-located helideck. This was within CAA- and client-approved criteria for operation to this type of vessel, but since the incident both CHC Scotia and Bristow have placed interim restrictions on movement levels. For drillships of this type, the previous pitch and roll of 2.5 degrees has been reduced to 1 degree and heave is down from four metres to two metres, with the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch, British health & safety agencies, BP and CHC Scotia carrying out investigations. The aircraft was taken to Norway and lifted ashore for detailed investigation at sister company CHC Helikopter Service's Stavanger/Sola engineering facility.

[zudhir]

I'd be grateful for any pointers on the technique for deck landings on moving platforms. Any literature on the subject?
Thanks.

[Horror box]

Know the movement limitations and stick to them. Have someone instruct you and don't rely too much on info from an internet forum - I really hope you are planning on doing this if you intend to start operating to and from a deck. Not something well suited to learning by trial and error. Depends a lot what type you are flying, size and type of deck, obstructions around the deck, weather etc.

[Thomas coupling]

I teach deck landings to the mil, if you want to know more, PM me.

[Phrogman]

I completely concur with Horror Box, don't rely on the internet and don't just give it a go without instruction.

[nellycopter]

Are we talking on a wheeled deck or deck on top of a building ?
I am thinking of getting a heliwagon ..... Welcome to HeliWagon The Ultimate Landing Dolly! (http://Www.heliwagon.com)
Is this classed as a deck as I too would like any advice offered and even willing for someone with experience to instruct me on it if needed.
I was looking at 16ft x 14ft powered and remote control for use with EC 120

Any thoughts ?

Nelly

[Brian Abraham]

I teach deck landings to the mil, if you want to know more, PM me.
TC, in all my time I've never seen information, or had instruction, on deck landing, though have quite a bit of experience. Would it be possible for you to elaborate here, so a wider audience can benefit? I might find what I have been doing wrong.

[HOGE]

Aim for the dry bit....

[sycamore]

Read the Oz Blackhawk deck landing crash saga,plus video....

[verticalhold]

I did an awful lot when I worked offshore, one of the best bits of advice I recieved from a very experienced captain was "imagine the silhouette of the aircraft on the deck and place the aircraft on the silhouette."

Along with have your approach gate height and speeds spot on it was the best advice I ever had, and one of thefirst bits I passed on to newcomers during line training.

VH

[Savoia]

.
Zudhir, here you go, deck-landing and deck-winching 101:

bC2XIGMI2kM

PQLnmdOthmA&feature=related

[stilton]

Okay, that was impressive.




Course, it would have been a different proposition without the flagman..

[Geoffersincornwall]

The ultimate adrenalin rush came from your first night D/Ls and then the first time you do stern-facing landings with the ship full ahead.

That said the most challenging D/Ls were oddly enough on an aircraft carrier where the Flight Deck chappies had marked out a half-a-postage-stamp area astern of the island where, with blades folded (Sea King HAS1) we could be on immediate readiness and still operate the fixed wing. The target was a 2ft diameter circle for the starboard wheel. Sitting in the cockpit with Phantoms landing was nerve-racking to say the least.

Best D/L was on a US carrier where the bl**dy thing was so big I actually lost site of the ocean. Such luxury.

Like the skill of hovering deck landing can be made to look simple but the reality is that proper instruction and regular practice are essential ingredients. The impressive Lynx video makes light of the fact that getting it down is one thing but keeping it there if you don't have the luxury of 'HARPOON' is beyond most commercial ops so our limits are much much less, maybe 2 degrees of pitch and roll and 10 feet of heave. Modern systems employ deck movement monitoring that take into account rates of change to P/R/H as opposed to the max amplitudes.

G. :ok:

[Savoia]

.
To emphasise one of Geoff's points, check-out the motion the Blackhawk has to contend with in the following vid between 0:29 and 0:40 secs:

v3Mwd-3Kf-4&feature=related

.. and just how annoying ship-roll can be even when you're not flying (below):

wZSc5T-iUO4

[John Eacott]

.. and just how annoying ship-roll can be even when you're not flying (below):


Nowt to do with ships roll, or deck landings. That was a failure of the positioning system, IIRC.

Geoffers, the dreaded 6 Spot. Oodles of room ;)

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/3276-2/F4K+002+landing+with+crew+in+051+Spot+6.jpg

and an aft facing: the MGB oil let go all over the talking ballast in the back about the time I took this photo, they were a little annoyed.

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1324-1/Eagle+from+aft+facing+landing.jpg

I thought the sliding onto the fwd spot on Engadine, at night, with another of the 737 course parked running on the aft spot was......character building?

For the OP, there are an enormous number of variables involved in shipboard DL's. Wind direction, sea state, ship's head, deck markings, W&T, obstructions are but a few of the factors to be considered. Those of us with a little knowledge may actually be dangerous, as our advice may have nothing to do with your operation or could actually mislead you.

I'd suggest a more specific explanation of your ops, or contact someone like TC to get personal training.

But remember the important point: enjoy it :D

[Max Contingency]

Great vids and excellent examples of military/coastguard deck landings/winching, even if they are at the extreme end of the scale. By contrast a commercial deck operation in the North Sea is considered to be 'unstable' if pitch or roll exceeds one degree of movement and pilots are limited to aa maximum of four degrees of movement.
Notice how the pilots never try and match the pitch and roll movements of the decks. This can be done (in lower sea states with larger vessels) but would be a non starter in these conditions.
You can almost feel the disrupted air curling round the structure and well done for waiting for that that sweet spot!!

I would have been terrified to have to make that landing :D

[Savoia]

.
Jeacott wrote: Nowt to do with ships roll, or deck landings. That was a failure of the positioning system, IIRC.

Jeacott; 'fair dinkum'. Would like to learn more about how those positioning systems work!

Max Contingency wrote: Notice how the pilots never try and match the pitch and roll movements of the decks.

Isn't that what the USCG craft is doing in the winching vid?

[malabo]

Hey Savoia, is that an old Garmin 295 handheld GPS on the top left dash of the Lynx(I think) in the first video. Always wondered what fancy gizmos the Navy had on board their helicopters for navigation.

[Savoia]

.
Malabo, you're probably right. I'm not up-to-speed on GPS types. I am however interested in the aparatus atop the Lynx's instrument panel (the one with the balck and yellow device to the left).


Probably not as much heave there as you think, ship's roll is going to make the horizon move up and down like that.

So .. what is the correct procedure for a deck-landing with a vessel underway? I was told:

a) Never approach direct from astern but to the port of the helideck where one can maintain a clear view of the landing area.

b) Once established to port of helideck begin to contour (mimic) the vessel's movements (ie. pitch and roll) while awaiting a 'flat spot' in the vessel's undulations.

c) When 'flat spot' arrives manoeuvre aircraft overhead helideck.

d) From a position directly above the designated landing area on the helideck commence measured inputs to effect a vertical descent while maintaining situational awareness of the vessel's movements (specifically the deck-closure-rate and watching out for deck 'bucking').

e) Implement a firm (ie. positive - no faffing around trying to kiss the deck with the undercarriage) but safe touchdown.

[Um... lifting...]

Depends. Upon what you're flying, what you're landing upon, and as often as not what colors they are flying. We generally went starboard to port on small decks, but sometimes port to starboard, depending upon wind and sea combination. We were underpowered and had decks the size of matchbooks, so unless you had a lot of clear wind across the deck, if a donk quit, you were going to the deck or you were going swimming.

Established to port with little wind in a hover? For us, that would have been dangerous luxury. Looking back, however, we did quite a few dumb things, and many of them were actual written procedures.

You'd try to get the ship to give you that 330 relative wind, but sometimes they couldn't do it, or couldn't do it and stay within pitch & roll limits, or couldn't do it without running aground or whatever, so sometimes you'd get a starboard wind, or a following sea, or some other dodgy combination of things. And of course since about 9 times of 10 you had no alternate, you figured out how to get aboard.

Once you'd decided the ship was about as OK as it was likely to get during this bag of fuel, you'd set up a nice closure rate, hitting a transition point about 200' above deck height, 60 KIAS more or less, 1200-1500' back, the speed and distance depending somewhat upon windspeed.
On short final, the center of your field of view was the big white landing spot, and you didn't want to be forward of the lateral line unless you were interested in putting blades into the superstructure. You sort of aim for the median of what the landing spot is doing, basically disregarding pitch & roll (it's basically noise if it's within limits) but paying heed to heave and yaw (of the ship), because heave will smack you in the undercarriage, or drop away from you, and if you chase it then it will really smack you in the undercarriage. Yaw, of course, cleverly tries to move the landing spot out from under you like a linen yanked from a laden table. There's a rather fine line between a firm landing in a seaway and rattling the crewman's fillings.
It's more easily shown than described. Night wasn't much different, except closure rate was more fidgety, and it was easy to fixate on the moving deck, which as it began to dawn on one that was what one was doing became definitely an unpleasant experience.
If you had a Talon or Harpoon (same thing, different name), and the ship was so equipped, if you hit the grid, you were apples, if you didn't, you'd have to wait at negative pitch until some slightly mad teenagers came out under the disk and tied you down.
RAST is something else entirely. So was getting aboard on instruments. You haven't lived until you've shot an ELVA for real and crawled up the ship's wake figuring there was likely a ship at the end of it.
Of course, I'm inclined to believe a friend of mine (who is in a position to know) who says you haven't lived until you've improvised an instrument approach to Matthewtown, Great Inagua direction-finding on a FM-equipped taxicab parked at the runway threshold in hard IFR (he tipped the guy all the money the entire crew had).

For us, the only mandatory command from the deck was "wave-off", everything else advisory.
Every organization I've run across (and that's a few) does it differently. We used enough people to cast a Cecil B. DeMille epic (overkill in my view), but the Royal Navy corvette I once landed on for a meeting (with a gigantic grid on a balmy day, bless 'em) we had to shut down and wander up to the bridge to find anyone at all (we had spoken with them over the radio, so they knew we were indeed coming, and when). Upon entering the pilothouse the Captain smiled winningly and said: "Ah! So you're here, then! Tea or coffee?"

[John Eacott]

So .. what is the correct procedure for a deck-landing with a vessel underway? I was told:


b) Once established to port of helideck begin to contour (mimic) the vessel's movements (ie. pitch and roll) while awaiting a 'flat spot' in the vessel's undulations.

Savoia,

As I mentioned before, some advice here may be less than helpful to the OP. If (when landing) you start to chase the pitch and roll of a small ship (or a large one, come to that) you are in for a world of hurt. Watch the Lynx video that you posted, especially the in-cockpit camera. The pilot is essentially holding a hover with reference to the horizon, and half an eye on the ship: when the heave is approaching the helicopter he climbs slightly, otherwise he is waiting for a lull in proceedings until the pitch and roll make it safe to land. Chasing the deck will end in tears when landing.

The winching, however, is a different kettle of canaries as the USCG machine appears to be following the deck to effect a winch transfer: keeping a steady cable is more important in that evolution, but I defer to the current winching experts (Crab, where are you?) for that.

[Um... lifting...]

John's correct here, and an internet forum (even one as illustrious as PPRuNe) is no place to learn how to land on a moving deck.
Winching is indeed different than landing on, whether the purpose of the winching is personnel transfer or to bring up a fuel hose to allow one to defer a landing until conditions improve or the ship can find a lee. And winching an inanimate object is different than winching a living hunk of protoplasm.

It's part art and part science.

Working in offshore for one example, limits are defined, and a good bit more limiting than those in the services, and that is as it should be. One also has an alternate in offshore, not necessarily so on maritime operations, especially in somebody else's or international waters. It doesn't make one type of operation better than the other, but it does shape operating philosophies. Having done both, I can tell you there are many differences.

There is someone out there who does what you wish to do, with a similar scope of operations. Just because a uniformed aviator from some service brought a helicopter aboard at night and out of limits (and many have) doesn't necessarily give anyone carte blanche to repeat the performance, but for that pilot it likely was the best idea that was available at the time out of a limited selection of options.

[outhouse]

Defined limits, training, testing, procedures and experience, not an Internet advisory service.*
View the West-star thread, for an example of how stuff goes astray *when you don't have or don't follow procedures don't follow the RFM, don't understand process and seemingly don't have the skill.:ugh:

[Savoia]

.
Jeacott/Um .. Fair comments which make sense.

Guess then that 'deck contouring' is for winching-ops as you've mentioned.

From what I understand, for small frigate ops, this Lynx arrival (below) is pretty much text book (well, Danish Navy text book at least!).

De4ENUsx9aM

[griffothefog]

I could bore you with swinging lanterns about landing on the UK's various coastal lightships, but I wont...

Needless to say, there are no rules just currency :ok:

[Savoia]

.
Griff, it does throw up an observation (for me at least) in that the oleo-struts fitted to the Lynx landing gear would appear to absorb some of the inertia on touchdown whereas with something like the Bölkow I'm guessing you have less licence to 'dump' the craft onto the deck?

[DaveW]

q3idQKi5EqM

On the deck of a Greenpeace vessel off the coast of Ireland.

Lucky, lucky people. Including those of the deck crew that go under the disc as the aircraft runs down.

I've not been able to track down the NTSB report on this one, but I'm sure it's interesting.

[SASless]

Seems in some of my nightmares there is one crew change flight to a certain Italian crewed Crane ship on the North Sea....a very dark night...a moderate sea (by North Sea Standards anyway)....a S-58T...snow...Decca...and a resulting strong desire to be anywhere else than where I was sat.

We did a Port Side approach to the very stern mounted helideck immediately abaft the huge funnel up towards the tippy (and it was in spades) top of the aft superstructure. A bit of a hover to cess out the movement....plunked the old girl down on the high point of her heave...somewhere in mid-stride in roll...bottomed the collective and rode the Bronco for what seemed like hours while the Italians all exchanged family photos...life histories...and played a couple hands of Pinochle or Skat. We were sliding back and forth about two squares of net with each cycle of roll.....turning green from Mal de Mer...and not enjoying the case of Vertigo that we were working into.

Yes....by all means...do get some hands on instruction if you can as it can be a very definite learning experience with some steep curves if you omit any one of numerous handy "Tips".

[have another coffee]

The videos bring back some very nice memories. Especially the night landings and drinking antoher coffee after the last landing enjoying the night sky.

For 15 years have a broken shear pin in my wallet as a reminder not to push my luck once more beyond limits...

Always jealous at the navies which had stabilized horizon bars and GPI's

[Thomas coupling]

The Lynx uses negative pitch once landed on, hence oleo compression. What is disconcerting however is the lack of lashings to ensure the cab doesnt start 'hopping' around the deck.:eek:
Deck landings must be the most demanding type of flying anywhere in the world. I challenge anyone to say otherwise giving examples of what could be harder (especially night deck Landings).:E

[Um... lifting...]

tc-

I watched the vid closely. They've got a Harpoon system installed (lovely piece of kit if you manage to land it over the grid), and it engaged the deck grid (it's the bit that comes down hydraulically roughly between and slightly forward of the main mounts. You arm it before landing (normally... you can also opt to arm it after landing), the weight-on-wheels switches start it probing for the deck, when what is basically a finger and a thumb finds a pair of grid holes, it swivels as necessary, engages the grid, grabs hold, then pulls up toward the fuselage and compresses the struts a lot more than negative pitch does.

Ship can roll a long way indeed (far more than you could get aboard with unless you had great big heaps of luck) and that baby's not coming off. When the little green light comes on in the cockpit, it's a nice feeling.

Of course, if you miss the grid, it thrashes to no effect like a bishop on holiday unless you reposition so you are over the grid.

FHS - Helicopter Handling Systems, Hangars, Hangar Doors, Doors and Hatches - Naval Technology (http://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/warship/fhsfoerder/)

cramm.nl/downloads/producten/documentatie/heligrid2/Heligrid2.pdf (http://www.pprune.org/cramm.nl/downloads/producten/documentatie/heligrid2/Heligrid2.pdf)

[A.Agincourt]

TC: Deck landings must be the most demanding type of flying anywhere in the world. I challenge anyone to say otherwise giving examples of what could be harder (especially night deck Landings).http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif Whilst I agree that deck landings are challenging [especially to the inexperienced - in such profiles] they are by no means the most demanding types of flying. How's about NVG flight down 3 miles of river in the jungle under the canopy to land on a sand bar? I personally feel that was far more demanding than a relatively simple deck landing in a force 8 gale in the South Atlantic. For a start, regarding the deck landing there was always the option to abort and think again etc. Under the canopy however, no such luxury - a case of stop [hover - eeeek] to gather courage or continue and hope you get it right. One way in - one way out.

Best Wishes

Ace

[Um... lifting...]

I've never found a single experienced helicopter pilot who couldn't relate a flying tale to a differently-experienced helicopter pilot that would scare the dickens out of the differently-experienced one... and then they have another beer and that second fellow relates a tale to the first one that scares the first one!

SAR in high seas at night. Being shot at. Ice. Slinging a load that takes on a mind of its own. Fighting fires. Goggle landing on a dusty mountainside in fog on an indeterminate slope. Forced landing in a place not conducive to a forced landing. Fire. The ship not being where it said it was going to be and not bothering to give you a clue. Taking off from a tight spot with far more people aboard than the machine is supposed to carry. Spotting that last person in the water right as the bingo light comes on and deciding you might have enough fuel left to get him AND get feet dry. Flying a Robbie. All, under the right circumstances, attention-getting.

A couple of these I've done, the others I've heard about.

[bast0n]

Make sure you have plenty of tip clearance..............

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/img041.jpg

[Savoia]

xeSOZew1Ht4&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL178423181235A381

I remember my godfather saying "firm but safe" on those occasions during my flight training when my landings were .. well, less than tidy. Not sure if that could apply to the landing above - although, to be fair, they were battling a fair degree of pitch on the deck.

Time elapsed from deck contact to blades stopped .. 27 seconds .. and .. it appears as though there may be evidence of 'collective-braking'!

[OvertHawk]

Is it just me or did the deck drew pick the worst possible time to come under the disc?? :eek:

OH

[212man]

Is it just me or did the deck drew pick the worst possible time to come under the disc??

No, it's not you! Clearly they haven't seen the photos of their unfortunate colleague who had his skull removed from his head by a Seahawk!

[truthinbeer]

Some years ago I was involved in a rig-tow of a jack-up rig "Key Biscayne" that we lost in a storm on the West Oz coast. The heli pilots did an incredible job evacuating the marine crew off the foundering rig, dropping down between pitching legs of the jack-up to winch personnel off the rig. A bit off-topic so i apologise, but courageous flying nonetheless.

[Brian Abraham]

Some years ago I was involved in a rig-tow of a jack-up rig "Key Biscayne" that we lost in a storm on the West Oz coast. The heli pilots did an incredible job evacuating the marine crew off the foundering rig, dropping down between pitching legs of the jack-up to winch personnel off the rig. A bit off-topic so i apologise, but courageous flying nonetheless.

One of the pilots was Dave Gibson if memory serves, flying a S-76. Others may refresh these aging synapses. Did they not receive some sort of official recognition for their deeds?

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/da.jpg

By this time, a charter helicopter had arrived on scene but the pilot could not land due to the excessive pitching of the rig. Two defence force choppers were despatched and were able to winch off eight crew, after which there was a lull in the weather and the charter chopper managed to lift off another ten. By 1230 hours, only ten essential crew were left aboard. Through the day, the rig began settling to the stern and listing to starboard, with heavy seas washing over deck. The bow was observed lifting clear of the sea, with the rig pitching 10 degrees forward, 25 degrees back and rolling 15 degrees to each side. The rig's Manual of Operations specified that the rig's pitch or roll should not exceed 5 degrees.

Full report here

http://www.divingfrontiers.com.au/Trips/key%20biscayne%20images/rpt3.pdf

[truthinbeer]

Yep, that's the one. Some months later the charterer (Philips?) supplied us a video put together from various heli mounted cameras, showing some of the heroic flying that day. Just amazing.

What was your involvement Brian?

[Brian Abraham]

No personal involvement truthinbeer. As I remarked, I think the pilot was Dave Gibson, the two of us going back a long way, having originally joined the Navy together.

[John Eacott]

Dave Gibson was Chief Pilot of Okanagan Australia, leading the west coast operation which was for one of the Seven Sisters: Esso, IIRC. The Philips operation was out of Essendon to the Bass Strait.

The sinking effectively led to the closing of Okanagan Australia as our Philips contract wound up a month or so later and there was no work for 4 S76s, pilots and engineers :( Okanagan gave work to some, others started Barrack (sp?) Helicopters in Perth, and that was the end of Okanagan Australia :sad:

However, I've not seen photos of the rig evacuation before: none of our S76s were winch equipped so all our pickups would have been via deck landings. A valiant effort, by the looks of it :ok:

[rotorfan]

In the first vid posted by Savoia (#10), a flagman is seen in the foreground. What is he trying to convey to the pilot, and is the pilot actually able to watch him while concentrating on the ship's movement?

[Um... lifting...]

The flagman is probably telling the pilot when he's over the landing spot, though I'm not familiar with those signals exactly.
That's one thing pretty difficult to discern from the pilot's seat if the landing area is small, which it is in this case.
Too far aft, you hang a wheel off the deck, too far forward, you whack the superstructure.

[industry insider]

This one is also worth remembering. 8th November 1989

Whilst on tow to a new location in the North Sea, the Interocean II ran into a gale with 85 mph winds and 25 foot seas. After losing one of its towlines, the UK coast guard was notified and two choppers were scrambled from Bristow's North Denes base in Norfolk to extract 43 of the rig's 51 crew. The first chopper reached the rig 30 minutes later to find the rig pitching and rolling, with the helideck tilted at 10 degrees. In driving rain, with the rig heaving up to 25 feet, the first 10 crew were airlifted and flown to a neighbouring platform.


The second chopper arrived to find the rig corkscrewing in heavy seas, resulting in the need for the pilot to reverse his chopper onto the helideck. After two more extractions, only 11 men were left on board, of which eight were expecting to remain behind as a skeleton crew. The first chopper returned for the last extraction but was unable to find the rig as the final towline had parted, allowing the rig to drift away. It became obvious that this would be the last landing attempted and the remaining crew were advised to abandon the rig due to the increasingly difficult conditions. The last 11 men had to crawl across the helideck before the chopper departed. Several minutes later, the Interocean II capsized and sank as a result of structural failure and flooding.

Stu Gregg, Mike Wood, Dale Moon and Roger Williams were the pilots that night.

[Nigel Osborn]

Sounds very like the late oil rig Key Biscayne!:ok:

Whoops, I hadn't read the previous page! The crew was yours truly flying, Dave Gibson in the left seat & Robin Vaughan-Johnstone, a 76 co-pilot, in the back as a crewy. We had a winch but conditions were hopeless to winch 52 people off in a hurry as we all thought the rig would capsize at any moment which it did when the last tow rope broke.

[212man]

What is not obvious in II's dscription is that it was at night! Moreover, the power on the rig had failed by the time the final extraction was carried out - so no lights!

[OvertHawk]

IIRC there were some well deserved "gongs" handed out for that nights work! :ok:

[212man]

Yes, QGMs I think

[Savoia]

LiveLeak.com - Ka-28 manages to land on warship in bad weather

Deck landing 101 .. à la Chinois.

At least he flagged-off the landing before making contact with the deck!

[John Eacott]

I thought the sliding onto the fwd spot on Engadine, at night, with another of the 737 course parked running on the aft spot was......character building?


I (finally!) have found a photo of RFA Engadine showing the flight deck with running Wessex. As mentioned, landing on the forward spot at night with the aft occupied by another machine didn't leave a lot of clearance :ok:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/7378-2/RFA+Engadine.jpeg

Blissful ignorance? ;)