Avalon TVAPPI

[Kelly Slater]

Touched on in another thread but not getting the attention it deserves, why oh why does Avalon Runway 36 have a PAPI when the tower is active but a TVASI outside of tower hours? Nobody could think that this is a good idea for any reason, could they?

[B772]

I remember reading a PAPI is normally operated by a Tower. At some locations the PAPI is used to notify a runway incursion. Once the runway is clear the Controller resets the PAPI so normal landing operations can recommence.

[Leatherdog]

That's bound to end well.

Best get an ASA commitie going to procrastinate over it for 3 years.

L'Dog.

[Icarus2001]

I remember reading a PAPI is normally operated by a Tower.

In Australia? Most PAPI installations in Australia at non-towered airports, which is Australian for uncontrolled.

NB: Airservices PR do not like the use of the phrase uncontrolled as it implies lack of control by, you know, a controller. Cannot have those jumped up pilots separating themselves and we don't want taxpayers asking questions about multiple 100 plus seat jets flying into uncontrolled airports.

[27/09]

Nobody could think that this is a good idea for any reason, could they?

It seems a real dumb idea if you ask me.

I remember the confusion at NZWN when they were changing from T-VASIS to PAPI. If I remember correctly they had one end with PAPI and one with T-VASIS for a short period. Turn finals on a visual approach and get 4 whites thinking you were on profile looking at a T-VASIS only to quickly discover you were looking at a PAPI.

Granted getting confused with either set up should not result in a excessive/dangerous below glidepath situation but having the ability to have either a T-VASIS or PAPI under differing conditions doesn't make sense to me.

[Fieldmouse]

Interestingly the DAP chart for Avalon shows that both the 36 Papi and Vasis installations have a considerable difference in threshold high for on-slope. The papi has a 65ft threshold height and the vasis only 42ft.This implies that the Papi was installed refrence a larger critical aircraft than the Vasis.With no Vasis at the 18 end, they are in breach of CASA's own MOS 139:
9.9.1.7 Where more than one visual approach slope indicator system is provided at
an aerodrome, to avoid confusion, the same type of approach slope indicator
system must be used at each end of a runway. If there is more than one
runway, the same type of approach slope indicator system must be used on
all runways of similar reference code number.

I genuinely would like to know what the go is.Might ring my friendly local CASA field office.

[compressor stall]

. Fascinating news. Can you advise say 3 (major) non controlled airports in aust that have a papi.

yppd, yaba, yesp, ybma, ypgv

[Fieldmouse]

Fascinating news. Can you advise say 3 (major) non controlled airports in aust that have a papi.

Follow this link:
Airservices Australia AIS - DAP 127 - Aerodrome & Procedure Charts (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm)

[Capn Bloggs]

Airservices PR do not like the use of the phrase uncontrolled as it implies lack of control by, you know, a controller.
Not as sinister as that! DICK likes the term NON-TOWERED (even though the last time I went to KTA when ATC had gone home, I swore I saw a TOWER there...:}

[Angle of Attack]

I understand the PAPI is cheaper but it's a shame really with all the reduction in T-VASI the last few years, in my opinion they are much more intuitive than the generic PAPI, and indicate more subtle variations in GP deviations than PAPI do, maybe I just need to get a HUD lol! Or just fly the ba$tard visually!!