Converting JAR Licences

[felixflyer]

Hi

I have a UK issued JAR FCL PPL and am about to start my IR then CPL. I have been thinking about doing these in a different country within Europe and have some questions. I have passed all my ATPL exams in the UK.

I understand that the IR is not a problem as it is a rating and as long as it is done in a JAR country then I can have this added to my UK JAR FCL.

For the CPL I have been told various things but from what I can gather it needs to be done in the same country as the exams unless it is done at a few approved schools in the USA etc. Is this correct?

This is what I have been told and I would be grateful if somebody could clarify a few things:

In order to do the CPL in another European country such as Spain, Poland etc. I would need to first do the IR, then convert my licence to a Spanish, Polish one. Is this a paperwork exercise only? Then I can do the CPL in that country. I will end up with a Spanish/Polish issued JAR CPL/IR. If this is JAR would it be a problem when applying for jobs in the UK? Once I have done this can I just convert the whole lot back to UK? If so what would be involved?

Regards

[VJW]

Hey - I use to issue the licences at the CAA, so may be able to help. Although of course this info may have changed now.

Firstly as you say the IR is a rating and can be done in any state.

You are slightly wrong about the ATPL exams and CPL being completed in the same state. When I was at the CAA they would accept the JAR ATPL exams from any state to issue a UK JAR CPL, however you had to have done the CPL flight training and testing in a UK approved school to have the UK licence issued.

Logically if you wanted to do a Spanish JAR CPL, you'd have to speak to the Spanish licensing authority to ensure they'd accept your UK ATPL exam passes for their licence, and then compete a spanish approved JAR CPL course. Once you had the licence you can apply to any job requiring a JAR CPL - some companies require you to change the state of licence issue to the one that issues their AOC (BA and EJ is UK, RYR is IRE) and this is a paperwork exercise.

Come next year mind, when EASA licensing regulations come into effect, you won't be able to change state of licence issue I doubt, and each licence will be the EXACT same to obtain and maintain in each state. Therefore the need to change state will no longer exist, and you'll be stuck with whatever you've got at the time. This isn't a problem as the licence will be an EASA licence, but some authorities that issue the licence are more helpful then others etc.

Did this help? :bored:

[BillieBob]

Hmmm, not entirely correct but it is a bit of a minefield. Since the UK CAA seem to make up the rules as they go along these days, you won't get a definitive answer unless you ask them (and wait a few months for a reply). However, the JAA requirements regarding state of licence issue are fairly clear.

Since you currently hold a PPL issued by the CAA, the UK is your default state of licence issue. This means that any future JAA licences and ratings must be issued by the UK unless you elect to change your state of licence issue. However, you cannot do this unless you meet the residency requirements (i.e you must live in the new state for at least 185 days in each calendar year). The UK will not issue a licence based on flight training conducted in another state, if you wanted to complete the CPL flight training in, say, Spain, you would first have to establish residency and then apply to change the state of licence issue so that you would get a Spanish issued licence (assuming that Spain accepts the UK theoretical knowledge examination credits).

Under the EASA Implementing Rules, it will be a little different. Although the term 'state of licence issue' is not used, the same concept remains in regard to the 'competent authority'. Applications for the issue of licences, ratings and certificates must be made to the 'competent authority' that issued an individual's first licence and/or that holds the individual's licensing and medical records. You will be able to request a change in 'competent authority' (apparently without meeting any residency requirements) and you will be able to undertake flight training in any EU member state for licence issue.

The only restriction that remains is that all of the theoretical knowledge examinations for a specific licence or rating must be taken in the same member state, although it doesn't say that this must be the same state in which the licence is issued. In theory, therefore, you will be able to sit the TK exams in one country, complete the flight training in a second, take the skill test in a third and have the licence issued by a fourth.

This is fine because, as we know, all EU countries maintain exactly the same high training standards. Don't they?

[VJW]

BB pretty much said the same thing as me. The reason I didn't mention the state of licence issue subject on the UK JAR PPL already held, is for some reason I'm not so sure you can't have a JAR PPL issued in one state and a JAR CPL issued in another. It sounds daft I know, but I don't remember if the UK CAA made a french JAR PPL holder surrender their licence upon issuing a UK JAR CPL. Maybe they did.

I know for sure if you already have a UK JAR PPL and CPL and you transfer the JAR CPL to another state, its only this UK JAR CPL you surrender to the new issuing state, and the UK CAA only notes on their system that the CPL has been surrendered, once it's been posted back to them from the new state. The UK JAR PPL says live with them on their system as do all the ratings. Whether this is correct, I'm now not so sure, but it's definitely what happens.

[felixflyer]

Thanks for that.

[BillieBob]

I'm not so sure you can't have a JAR PPL issued in one state and a JAR CPL issued in another.JAR-FCL.1.065(e) "An applicant shall hold only one JAR-FCL licence (Aeroplanes) and only one medical certificate at any time." You can't hold at the same time a JAR PPL and a JAR CPL issued by the same state, let alone by different states. The EASA Implementing Rules include the same provision.

[Felix Saddler]

So if one possesses a UK issued JAR FCL PPL and conducts JAA CPL training in the states, will that license be issued by the UK CAA making it a UK based JAA CPL? Forgive my ignorance...

[BillieBob]

If the approval of the US based FTO is isued by the UK CAA, yes.

[jez d]

Felix, assuming you are resident in the UK your choices are limited to UK CAA approved FTOs until such time as PART-FCL regulations are enacted.

Standards Document 31 lists all CAA approved FTOs based in the UK and abroad:Standards Document 31 Version 104: Organisations Conducting CAA and JAR-FCL Approved Courses of Flight and Ground Training | Publications | CAA (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=2854)


Regards, jez

[Felix Saddler]

Jez d:- Thanks for the link, very useful indeed. The FTO I have considered is on there. Much appreciated.

Felix.