Republic of Congo Crash

[timmyp]

Sky News reporting a plane crash in Republic of Congo, 112 on board....they didnt reveal any further information.

[SenZubEanS]

Reuters reporting 40 people pulled from wreckage so far.

[Capetonian]

seems to be Hewa Bora Airlines B727 from Kinshasa.

The a/c scheduled to operate that flight is an MD 82.

[Eagle402]

40 survivors so far from Congo plane crash - official | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/07/08/uk-congo-democratic-crash-idUKTRE7673OL20110708)


and

BBC News - DR Congo plane crashes at Kisangani airport - reports (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14083277?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[RoyHudd]

High risk airline, high risk country for aviation. Tragic. Caveat emptor.

[Caudillo]

Stavros Papaioannou, Patron de Hewa Bora Airways : nos avions ne sont pas des cercueils volants
mars 2, 2009

http://radiookapi.net/emissions-audio/2009/03/02/stavros-papaioannou-patron-de-hewa-bora-airways-nos-avions-ne-sont-pas-des-cercueils-volants/

"Stavros Papaioannou, boss of Hewa Bora Airways : our planes are not flying coffins."
March 2, 2009

Perhaps he's had his sunglasses glued on too long to notice that they are.

[flugholm]

Plane crashes in DR Congo, airlines chief says 72 died so far (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-07/08/c_13974344.htm)

>However, DR Congo's transport ministry was quoted in reports as saying the death toll reached 127, with 51 people surviving the tragedy. The ministry said number of people onboard had been underestimated.

Hmmmmm... :oh:

[MungoP]

number of people onboard had been underestimated.
Wouldn't suprise me in the slightest... even when a cargo plane crashes in DRC the number of people aboard are 'underestimated' often by 20+ :hmm:

[RobertS975]

The aircraft involved is reportedly a 727-100 (cn 18933) originally placed in service back in 1965 with Lufthansa.

http://spotters.net.ua/files/images/0000046996_small.jpeg

[aterpster]

In the U.S. we have "suicide by cop" where a person who wishes to end their life takes on the cops to force them to shoot.

I think for an old pilot that has such motivations perhaps riding around on these African airlines might be more "fun."

[hyzhao11]

could anyone help me in finding the detailed picture about the airport where the crash happened?

[captainsuperstorm]

P2F ???

who's next?

[roaldp]

Some survey pictures of Kinshasa airport here:
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=&airlinesearch=&countrysearch=Congo+%28Kinshasa%29&specialsearch=airport&keywords=&sort_order=photo_id+desc&page_limit=15&daterange=&range=&thumbnails=&engine_version=6.0)

[tony.wheeler]

I flew Hewa Bora's 727-100 (with a built 1965 plaque) into Kisangani on 26 June and out on 28 June (ie less than 2 weeks ago). It had winglets and just yesterday I posted a picture of it landing at Kisangani on 28 June.

Hewa Bora 727 (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/tonywheeler/my_lists/congo_information/#more)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Google Earth....

[Hotel Tango]

roaldp, the aircraft didn't crash in Kinshasa. Pay attention at the back please!

[hetfield]

http://austrianaviation.net/uploads/pics/kisangani-c-google-earth.jpg

[Huck]

Welcome Tony! Many many pilots use your books.....

[Diamond Bob]

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/dailystar/Pictures/2011/07/09/congo%20afp_634458283938913097_main.jpg

First photo I've seen. The accompanying article THE DAILY STAR :: News :: Local News :: Lebanese man among DR Congo plane crash victims (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Local-News/2011/Jul-09/Lebanese-man-among-DR-Congo-plane-crash-victims.ashx#axzz1Rf0iv4FV) mentions 118 aboard, but I saw 112 somewhere else, which I'm thinking is the correct number.

[hyzhao11]

thanks,interesting: does landing minimum mean nowadays anything to a pilot?

[aterpster]

BAKHTIYAR chaudry:

Lets not rush into conclussions and wait for official report
an advise from old time 747 retire captain pakistan int airline
and dfo of rayyan air uae
That is a reasonable position for a crash in a Western democracy. However, it doesn’t work very well for aircraft crashes in Tripoli or Islamabad. (two relatively recent crashes with a very high interest factor.) All we derive from the crashes are innuendo. So speculation is the order of the day for third world airline crashes.

To use a metaphor: what is fair for the goose is fair for the gander.

[RoyHudd]

Pakistan does not issue accident reports, so the advice from the old PIA captain was the usual trash to be expected from them.

And any accident investigation from such places as Libya, Congo, Egypt, Yemen, or the like results in a whitewash favouring the locals...let's be straight about such matters instead of pc.

[cyflyer]

Tony_Wheeler, interesting blog, sounds like a real dodgy place to either fly or walk down the street with a camara in hand. I certainly wouldn't risk it. You take too many unneccessary risks mate. So what did it feel like to fly in a 46 year old airliner ? What nationality were the crew ? The owner is definately Greek with a name like Stavros Papaioannou.

[kingair9]

The owner is definately Greek with a name like Stavros Papaioannou.

Funny that you as a Cypriot say that that. From an old French-language TV report about aviation in Congo in general and HBA in particular I seem to remember that he is Cypriot and not Greek. Can you check and confirm?

[iakobos]

Stavros Papaioannou is indeed Cypriot.

[Alber Ratman]

Having seen the state of a 727 from the DRC, I would not even take a Euro Millions winning ticket to fly in one.. They are rot boxes, ill maintained and illegally modified in some cases.. End of. Any westerner flying one must be desperate for work indeed to do so.

[hetfield]

That's why they are banned from EU.

[cyflyer]

Can you check and confirm?

I will ask, but it is a possibility.

[421dog]

Probably just needlessly stirring the pot, but the plane DID make the flight and apparently crashed on approach, so the possibility of non-mechanical factors is certainly still entertained.

laus donanda ubicumque merita
and all that sort of thing...

[doubleu-anker]

Alber Ratman

I will put money on, that it was not mechanical failure that was the cause of this accident.

The chances of pilot error/misjudgement in the prevailing conditions are at the top of my list.

Pilot error/misjudgement will never ever be eliminated, anywhere.

[ChiefT]

A picture from a year ago. Then it looked not too bad...

http://www.airliners.net/FC_nowm.file?u=THwxOTQ3OTc5fGQ5ZzhoN2o2cXdlcnR5

[Diamond Bob]

Couldn't wind shear be the cause of this accident? Not sure if that falls into the category of pilot error or not. 727s have been in several high profile wind shear crashes in the past -- most notably Eastern Airlines flight 66 (http://www.super70s.com/super70s/tech/aviation/disasters/75-06-24%28Eastern%29.asp) in 1975.

[Hotel Tango]

Diamond Bob, it could be one or several of many factors. Neither you nor I nor the rest of the PPRuNer world will know until the accident has been thoroughly investigated by EXPERTS in the field of accident investigation and their report is published. Whether that will actually happen in the DR of Congo is another question!

[cyflyer]

Apparently he is Cypriot, according to a pilot friend of mine, but he cannot ever remember him having lived here.

[Alber Ratman]

I have made no reason to imply that this accident was due to technical failure as it propably was not. However I bet if you knew what the corrosion you find on frames of this age operating in this country, you would think twice about flying them.. The maintenance practices there are bad. Thats why EASA doesn't allow them to operate in European airspace, even sometimes on one way trips for heavy maintenance. Maybe the operations regime, training and other factors are not quite as good as you find in Europe too. :E

[DownIn3Green]

I agree with d.Bob...I have worked in the REPUBLIC of the Congo, not the DRC...
(and Angola and Cameroon)

I along with several other PPruners had a great time in Pointe Noir..You cry-babies who have never been there, or think we only go to places in the 3rd world for the money, you may be right...On the other hand, Africa is a lot like Alaska...A pilot goes there and it gets in one's blood. They never come back...

Africa presents many challenges for the Captain, the situation or country, SAFETY starts at home...

I've had some interesting moments working in Africa, but nothing ever came close to me fearing for my safety or wellbeing...

(Except for those 3 days ion Chad, but that's a whole different story...)

[The Ancient Geek]

SAFETY starts at home...


Indeed.

Flying in Africa can be great, often in challenging circumstances, but you need to keep a good lookout for your own bad habits as well as the stupidity of others who try to kill you with every idiocy from overloading to dangerous cargo. Regulation and enforcement vary between lax and non-existant so nobody is going to report you for busting minimums.
You are responsible for your own safety so just dont do it.

The loading idiots WILL put the heaviest pallet on last, just inside the door at the back, because there are too idle to push it forward. There will be bags that you battle to lift and babies big enough to grow a beard.

But you take it all in your stride, refuse to depart until it is all properly sorted, get a reputation for being an awkward nuisance, and SURVIVE.

The pay is crap, the hotels are worse, but you love every minute.

[Siguarda al fine]

From what I recall Stavros was born in the Belgian Congo to Greek parents..........I stand to be corrected.
BTW he is an accomplished pilot and earned his wings the hard way.

[mATT84DC]

As I ve posted in the african forum, the ATCcos seem to be arrested in Kisangani, I ve been informed from their colleagues in Kinshasa app, on strike this morning...
but I don t know anything about their real responsabilities in the crash...let s wait

[Sunnyjohn]

Stavros Papaioannou is indeed Cypriot.
Was - he died in 2009 (see the history of his Cypriot furniture company)

[kingair9]

Stavros Papaioannou is indeed Cypriot.

Was - he died in 2009 (see the history of his Cypriot furniture company)

I have rarely seen a dead corpse top be quoted in such a whole lot of media like him after the crash...

But back to topic: There is more and more reports from different sources that there may have been as many as 178 people on board instead of the 110 informed by Hewa Bora earlier. I cannot see how to fit 178 people into a 727-100 while at the same time fulfilling MaxPax rules but this remains to be confirmed.

[Diamond Bob]

Wikipedia lists the max seating capacity of a Boeing 727-100 as 149.

Boeing 727 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_727)

[kingair9]

See what I mean...? Something just does not fit. Either all news reports are wrong or at least 30 people (if all-y config which I doubt => so probably 40-50 people) were standing during the flight if the tally is correct...

[DownIn3Green]

I have personally spoke with a fellow PPruner today on the phone and related to him that while in Angola we flew over 230 DRC employees back to Kinshasha on a 727 100...It was outfitted with fuel tanks inside, but that didn't mean these folks wouldn't fit...

Anyone who has been there and done that would understand...DI3G

[Diamond Bob]

There is nothing humorous about this crash, but there certainly is a comedy of errors surrounding the numbers game. Two news stories today:

DRC plane crash toll rises - Africa | IOL News | IOL.co.za (http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/drc-plane-crash-toll-rises-1.1097816)

Channel 6 News » Death toll from DR Congo plane crash lowered to 75 (http://channel6newsonline.com/2011/07/death-toll-from-dr-congo-plane-crash-lowered-to-75/)

You can't make this stuff up.

[Siguarda al fine]

Rumours of Stavros death are greatly exaggerated, both he and the appendage that sprouted from his nose are alive and well.

[jcjeant]

Hi,

All Ewa Bora flights cancelled cause license suspended
Crash au Congo: plus de licence pour Hewa Bora | Air Journal (http://www.air-journal.fr/2011-07-15-crash-au-congo-plus-de-licence-pour-hewa-bora-532889.html)

The airline Hewa Bora Airways license suspended indefinitely by the authorities of the Democratic Republic of Congo, after the July 8 crash that caused the deaths of at least 80 people

[20milesout]

"A preliminary report, still without data from the black boxes, introduced by the accident investigation commission points out:

- the flight crew misjudged weather
- the airline assigned unqualified/non-licensed crew to operate the Boeing 727-100
- tower controllers were not licensed
- tower controllers provided erroneous/false weather data
- the airport authority lacked security plans
The commission also raises doubt about the validity of the registration (9Q-COP) of the aircraft by the Civil Aviation Authority."

(avherald, Aug 17, 2011)

Seems like really no one knew what he was doing on that day :ouch:

[The Ancient Geek]

No surprises there.
SOP for operations in the DRC.

[MartinCh]

20milesout,

WTF ! Absolutely astounding 'preliminary'.

I mean, I'm just fresh CPL holder/observer/reader, but talking about Swiss cheese holes 'aligning' in ADM is useless for some (too many I guess) African places. That sounds like complete vacuum of safety. Not even pretending to take it seriously.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Without having lived here, most folks just don't get Africa. Unfortunately dictating policy using a Western mindset is a futile exercise.

[BUSHJEPPY]

Unfortunately, only in French.

In short, after having found out that Hewa Bora was illegally maintaining its aircraft and power plants in its Kinshasa facility, the AAC recommends the airlines to resume operation after it officially apologized to the victims' relatives (200 or so deaths in two separate air crashes) and officially submit a plan of action to the autorities. Meanwhile, it can lease in ACMI foreign registered aircraft. :mad: :yuk:


Plongeon à l (http://www.7sur7.cd/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27169:-plongeon-a-linterieur-dune-compagnie-aerienne-controversee-le-rapport-mortel-sur-hba&catid=18:le-soft-online)