What makes you feel safe?

[NorthernGoose]

Hi all,

I'm quite curious on everyones opinion as to what makes you feel safe on an aircraft. To make it more specific assume you are the passenger of a turbo prob aircraft larger then 20 seats. For me it after many years of travelling on wide bodies across the pond, when stepping onto a smaller turbo prop the cosmetics on the inside are what I feel adds the most comfort!

Some feel attractive flight attendents and great beverage service is a definite deal breaker.

Thoughts?

[Dream Land]

A clean aircraft, nice paint job and spotless interior, if they don't have the money for that, beware. :ok:

[Tinstaafl]

Don't know about that. I've seen a fair few aircraft that look fabulous but that was paid for at the expense of airworthy related items. Usually just before being sold but I've seen some shonky operator's do it as a matter of course to attract the "Oooh....shiny & clean so it must be OK" crowd.

Er....but of course no one here would be fooled by that, would they?

[ZFT]

Some feel attractive flight attendents and great beverage service is a definite deal breaker.

So you don't feel that safe flying across the pond then?

[Mr Optimistic]

That last bit where you walk out through the door. Love it.

[Nicholas49]

So it's how attractive the cabin crew are rather than their level of training (e.g. in conducting an evacuation) that makes you feel safe? Interesting logic!

In all seriousness, it's the answers to passengers' questions, kindly given by aviation professionals on this site, that makes me feel safe.

When on board, a reassuringly calm and collected introductory PA from the captain always helps. :ok:

[Wannabe Flyer]

Track record of the airline is about the most important criteria for me booking a flight. Clean interiors is obviously a desire to make the choice of an airline as is the inflight service. Experience has shown however a diligent operator will have all 3 on the ball.

Recent A 330 occurrences have made me try and pick carriers that are not flying this aircraft, but that is but a personal choice and not based on any hard data and would not superseded track record of carrier.

And before anyone says AF, their track record amongst all Major European carriers is amongst the worst, their service pathetic and the last time I flew them the interiors were shabby, but again was many years ago (on the interiors front that is).

[ExXB]

A couple of years back Mrs. ExXB and I were on the 'Sunshine Coast' north west of Vancouver. There was a float plane operator there that did local charter flights. On the day, if they had seats, you could sign up to 'come-along' for a circuit. I recall $100 each. We had a wonderful 1h 1/2 triangle journey delivering people to their cabin (inaccessible by road) on a lake on an island, and delivering some fisheries people to a site where they were counting fish (or something like that).

I was most impressed to learn that the aircraft, a Beaver, had been built the year I was born. While some would say that an accident was waiting to happen, I prefer to think that an aircraft that had made it that long, was just as likely to do another 50+ years. (Provided they can find the avgas, that is)

[Hotel Tango]

To reduce the odds I might elect to avoid carriers where maintenance practices or crew culture could be suspect. At the same time I'm realistic enough to believe that no carrier is infalible no matter how low their accident rate is, or how presentable the crew and the aircraft might be.

[Ancient Observer]

By and large, planes are safe on the ground, and safe in the air. It's the bit in between that can be dodgy. (Other than, of course, Aviation's most stupid phrase - "Controlled Flight into Terrain").

I feel safe on take off and landing by focussing on my breathing. It's what I do when i go to the dentist.

[Mr Optimistic]

Aside from my earlier flippancy, I now consider trying to avoid flights in darkness if possible. Nothing beats a good visible horizon !

[OFSO]

Learning that the first officer is a contributor to "Jet Blast".

[Herod]

Terra Firma; and the more firma, the less terror.

[NorthernGoose]

If I was to pose a sub question here being for the everyday passenger with little knowledge of safety records, maintenance, company culture etc what would make them feel safe on a commercial airliner. There is also something to be said for the feeling you get when you switch from a 350 seater wide body across the pacific to a 50 seater fokker 50 flying out to a remote location. In the litteral sense of things the average pilot could careless about what actually makes an aircraft safe but the cosmetically appealing sides of things that present a level of safety. (I understand others have different opinions and I'm merely posing the question playing devils advocate)

Cheers

[geeohgeegeeoh]

Its horses for courses.

I have been flown by tiny props up N.Z. Glaciers to land on snow. Grass runway. Never felt safer.

I have flown inter-island hops on a Hawaii jet. Never felt more terrified in my life (think the compression cycles on that airframe)

I even allowed a mate to take me aloft in a 1950s string-frame glider at Oakey, and again, no power, no para, felt as free as a bird.

The assumption 'bigger is safer' doesn't apply to me mentally: if the weather can make a jumbo toss around the sky like a hot-dog on a skillet, I feel considerably less happy than if its a 10 pax box with the wing-spar to step over: you expect to get a bumpy ride.

The safest I've ever felt, was on a Hercules flying to Tasmania during a pilots strike. The aircrew checked the wiring and conduits in the aircraft body THE ENTIRE FLIGHT. It does of course beg many questions: why dont they do this on civilian carriers? :-)

[A2QFI]

I think because all this stuff is accessible and visible in a Hercules! Regarding feeling unsafe I think I would unhappy in any version of the ATR, particularly in Winter!

[henry crun]

For flights over water I feel safest in a four jet engined aircraft, but I would feel much safer if there were four engines hanging below each wing.

[AirResearcher]

Here's a slightly different angle for you...

Very few passengers seem remotely aware (or even interested) of what goes on behind the scenes - so their judgement is very much based on appearances, and total faith in airlines, goverment regulators etc etc etc.

With crew (and other employee) fatigue becoming such a hot topic due to more demanding shift patterns, and rest facilities often becoming comprimised, does anyone feel that any changes are necessary?

And would the public take any notice if they knew that some airlines continually stress their crews out a lot more than others through company policies?

[Ancient Observer]

Mr Air,
you are in the slf - better known as customer - bit here. I agree that some rosters are tough on some people, some of the time, but you are going to have a very tough time convincing SLF that 900 flying hours per year is arduous. In Europe both those at the pointy end and those on commission are not going to fly more than 900 hours in a year.
The roster that will not be tough for some people some of the time has yet to be invented.

[AirResearcher]

Hi Ancient Observer

Thanks, yes... wanted to see what perceptions SLF have of this safety angle, particularly with flight time restrictions under review in the EU ..and it seems the 900 hours regulation is currently interpreted differently in some EU countries...

[Tinstaafl]

I worked in Shetland for Loganair, doing the inter-isle flights with BN2 Islanders. Quite a few tourists commented about the diminishing size of their aircraft. They'd start their journey on a widebody to the UK, transfer to a narrowbody from London to Aberdeen, an ATP or Saab 340 to Shetland and, finally, a BN2 to the outer islands. The icing on the cake was that in a number of cases every aircraft was in British Airways colours, from largest to smallest. It used to make me laugh to see the look on their faces. Some of them must have been thinking they were glad there wasn't a subsequent flight to catch - the trend wasn't exactly reassuring

[Coquelet]

I love aviation and flying, I have faith in my good luck, and I always feel safe in any aircraft.

[AirResearcher]

Coquelet, is that because you are convinced that the superb safety record of commercial aviation will not change even with massive commercial pressures affecting flight operations?

[Coquelet]

I don't care about statistics. Even the airline with the worst safety record does not crash an aircraft at each flight, nor every month, nor every year (not even Air France). Thus, I feel safe on any airline, confident that I won't be on their next crash.
I am even sure that, were I involved in an air accident, I will survive (if I am wrong, I won't know it).
I am no more stupid that those who, each time they fly, are sure that their aircraft will crash.

[SuperSardine]

I feel pretty safe anyway, but here's a list of things that affect my perception of safety one way or the other. I realize none of these are guarantees, and I suspect some are completely illusory or perhaps even backwards.

Things that make me feel safer:

Large airline (feel it can support better training and procedures)
Established airline (they've had time to develop a good safety culture)
Airline with good safety record (some part of that is luck, but what about the other part)
Airline with good safety culture (based mostly on what I read here)
Airline that pays well, trains well, doesn't overwork flight crew (mostly inferred from what I read here)
Relatively new aircraft design (more likely to have better safety margins, and less likely to have unknown issues)
Large, moderately busy airport
Country with serious regulatory and accident investigation bodies
Country with good air traffic control
Older flight crew on larger planes, younger (but not too young) flight crew on smaller planes
Being able to see out window, especially during take-off and landing
Being able to see aircraft speed, altitude, especially during take-off and landing (used to be able to, but lately that seems never to be available during take-off and landing. very annoying. anyone know if true, why?)
Being able to see aircraft position and direction (especially over long water segments)
Would like to be able to see planned route

Things that make me feel less safe (in addition to opposites to all of the above, and vice versa):

Airlines with questionable behavior (eg an airline that gets flight crew involved in incidents out of the country asap, before they can be interviewed by authorities. (My concern is that that hides bad practices at company. Don't wish to scapegoat crew.))
Budget airline (more likely to barely meet instead of exceed safety requirements, less likely to employ top quality mechanics / flight crew)
Broken bits in passenger compartment, e.g. dodgy seats, not working electronics (if they can't keep the bits we slf see working, what about the stuff we can't)
Apparently old aircraft (only since I can't tell new from refurbished)
Airlines/Airports with multiple similar incidents in recent history (e.g. sleeping controllers)
Flying in unusual circumstances with several similarities to recent unexplained accidents (e.g. at the moment, flying from south america to europe during stormy weather)
Flying at really, really high altitudes (concern about reaction time in case of decompression, coffin corner issues)
Icy conditions
Stormy conditions, especially during take-off and landing
Strong turbulence
Rapid, major changes in engine power, especially during takeoff (I still hate / cannot get comfortable with the common practice of relatively steep takeoff, followed by power reduction and leveling out just afterwards)
Diversions because of equipment failure (had to do that once. some kind of speed sensor)
Unannounced diversions
Travelling with spouse (worse consequences if something does go wrong)
Anything out of the ordinary

[Wannabe Flyer]

Travelling with spouse

Wow is she a bad traveler or just generally mean and you also feel unsafe with her in a car?

On a more serious note your choices of airlines will probably be narrowed down to some mathematical probability that only Rain Man could figure out!

[L'aviateur]

Like many before me, I don't get particularly concerned when flying with most airlines, and happily fly on all the FAA/EU blacklisted airlines in the Philippines. However, if I knew that an airline had a particularly horrendous accident rate, I might take a few minutes to think that one through.
Try not to live a life of worry.

[Rwy in Sight]

Some thoughts before the first coffee of the day is absorbed (so bear it in mind):

A crew that has some common sense and knows when it is ok to be a bit lax. So they can think for themselves when things go wrong.

An airline that handles abnormal situations well and efficiently. The airline I flew with last night was very good at protecting the 40' delay.

Better weather and easier airports where operations can run smoothly.

My belief that when I travel by plane I am safe and I will arrive at my destination. So far it has not failed me - with one diversion. It is much like finding a parking spot on a crowded area.

Rwy in Sight

[MPN11]

@ SuperSardine ... that's a very comprehensive and thoughtful list.

I've only just popped back in, and I'm sorry that nobody even bothered to acknowledge you input or even welcome you to the gutter where the SLF live ;)

Fly safe :ok:

[cavortingcheetah]

For me the greatest degree of blue blanket safety security was provided when the rather pretty first officer had sufficient confidence in her captain so as to leave him alone in the cockpit while she trembled my knees between hers in the aft lavatory shortly after top of drop into Palm Springs one dark and stormy night not so long ago.

[west lakes]

Having a lot of good and respected friends in the industry who's attitude to flying I realise applies to the greater majority of airline staff!

[Nervous SLF]

I have flown in small and large aircraft and feel quite safe until the seatbelt sign comes on and the intercom says we are expecting turbulance. From then on I cringe, go very very quiet and worry until sign goes off. I had a terrible flight due to turbulance some years ago in a 747 across the Pacific .

[boredcounter]

Happiness is setting foot on an aircraft owned from new by the same Airline for 20+ years and still going strong, to me that speaks volumes, unless they lost the other 10, but most don't ;-)

Just a UK view point.

Bored