What made you walk away

[Gmac115]

Gday Gents

I'm interested to know , those of you that have worked for a few years ( whether it be instructing, charter , airline etc ) and are no longer in aviation what made you walk away and what did you do?

Bit of back ground: I'm in my middle twenties. Aviation is my main qualification and im back living at home with my folks :ugh: near cronulla in sydney.
I have instructed for the last few years in Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne. I also did a stint in Darwin. (Charter) I am job hunting at the moment not having much luck and to be honest I don't think I'm really looking that hard. I'm sick of being away from home missing the friends, family and the Mrs. Im also sick of working for crap companies, im tired of having no money and I'm over the individuals with god complexes

I have no problems with "doing your time" and hard work but for what reward in the future? Pay for your own endorsements with the airlines and work for crap money while my mates are chasing tail on there month long trip in euroloand? Funny sounds like what I do now...


I don't mean to come across as having a whinge.. Everyone does it tough... But how long do you flog a dead decaying maggot infested horse? My love of flying and sheer enjoyment and accomplishment i get out of it don't pay the bills!

But....... I cant bring myself to pull the pin... How did you guys do it and do you regret it?
Im even interested to know for those who have thought just as I do but stuck it out. What made you stay?

[CanadaKid]

Having nearly killed myself (age 20) and my 3 pax while working for a crap bush outfit, I packed up shortly thereafter and called it quits. Working at some miserable ground jobs for awhile gave me plenty of time to think about why flying didn't work out for me.

I realized I nearly 'made the headlines', because of my own stupidity and lack of training. I decided I would study all aspects of flying to become a professional, (in theory at least), and apply for professional flying position rather than crap jobs.

Within a year I was hired by a excellent corporate flight outfit, and a short time later by a major airline.

Incidently, the CP at the corporate outfit asked me what I thought about applicants offering to fly for free to get "an endorsement". While I hummed & hawed, he said I'll show you what I think, and he tossed their application in the bin. "If someone thinks so little of themselves that they're willing to work for nothing, I don't want them working for me"

Here it is, decades later, and I'm still working at being a professional pilot. Read, think, read, think - repeat 'til retired.

cheers, CK

[tinpis]

There ya go, move to Canada, eh?

[Ultralights]

after 1000 hrs instructing, i walked away after i discovered it was costing more in fuel and tolls to get to the airport than i earned in a day, so bought my own aircraft with cash earned in my trade profession, millitary maintenance contracting. and now fly for personal satisfaction.. at about the same cost as running a new family car, and still manage to average about 250 hrs a year, thanks RAAus..

[remoak]

You just have to work out what you are in it for.

If you are one of the star-struck youngsters who simply has to fly at all costs, by all means do the "hard yards", you might get into an airline one day, but then again you might not.

If lifestyle, family and hobbies are more important to you, you may want to consider another career without the penalties that you have to endure in professional aviation.

Personally, I have never paid for a type rating and have always had a reasonable salary (even while instructing). If I had to do it all again today, I doubt I'd bother. Way too expensive in every department, for way too little return.

The other problem is that as soon as you get into an airline, you will find yourself trying to get more time off, less night stops, and so on. In other words, the pilot lifestyle has some definite downers that most pilots can't see until they have been in an airline a few years.

I have walked away a couple of times now (got back into it for a few lucrative contracts), and I have found that my family like it better when I'm not flying. I might go back to it when the kids leave home, but for now the price isn't worth it.

[slamer.]

Remoak... And there was me thinking you worked for some dodgy Euro charter outfit ....

[plucka]

Go and get an Ag. Rating. Cost you about 18k. Then go mixing for awhile to learn the industry. If you are any good at that and keep your nose clean within in 18 months you will be flying a turbine with a rating you didn't have to pay for, flying upwards of 600hrs a year and getting paid well over 100k a year. There is a huge pilot shortage in the Ag. Sector at present and new blokes are getting turbine seats with only 100hrs of experience, some even less.
Be warned tho, Ag is not for everyone and these good conditions will only last til the next drought.
However it might be worth looking into, at least the return on your investment is better than instructing.
You will have to leave the big city tho.

[das Uber Soldat]

I watched that video of night ag spraying on here once.

I am not surprised there is a shortage of ag pilots :p

[remoak]

slamer... yep did the Euro charter thing for a while, but flying the back side of the clock gets old really fast. My last contract gig was daytime holiday sun charters, it was good fun until the global economic meltdown came along... ;)

On ag flying, there is a shortage of pilots in that sector for a reason, ie nobody wants to do it. It's dangerous and pretty hard work for the dollars you earn.

Go and get an Ag. Rating. Cost you about 18k... within in 18 months you will be flying a turbine with a rating you didn't have to pay for...

Apart from the 18k you had to spend getting the ag rating? You could buy a type rating for that...

It all comes down to how desperate you are.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Gillard, Swan, Garrett, ALBANESE, Rudd, Wong, Brown, need I continue?

Bbbbzbzbzbzbz z z z z

[Fonz121]

Gillard, Swan, Garrett, ALBANESE, Rudd, Wong, Brown, need I continue?


What on earth are you on about?

[FOCX]

From the last few posts of Mr Bs that I've seen, shows he's a good advert on why you should be careful on what 'fumes' you inhale!

[who_cares]

Geez sounds a lot like a lot of us.
Now 15 yrs later I'm doing what I love, earning reasonable coin flying

[lilflyboy262]

I was on the same boat. Sold everything, jumped on a plane and got a gig flying in the bush in Africa. Loving every second of it.
I guess bush flying is like ag flying. It is as safe as YOU make it.

[victor two]

The problem is that not enough people do walk away from the industry. They spend a long time trying to win their dream flying job, after a couple years the decide they really don't like it but done know anything else, stick it out for a few mote years, really start to dislike all the bad stuff that they overLooked for years, decide that it's all too hard to do anything else so they stay in and see out their careers all bitter and angry....and probably divorced.
There are plenty of really good careers out there that pay better and offer better lifestyle options. The advent of low cost airlines means pilots, engineers, ground crew, cabin crew, company managers and aircraft all have to work harder for a bit less. That's the way it is.
I just wish that more of the private school princesses and burned out divorced complainers would just quit and do something else instead of spending decades crying and sooking about circumstances that they themselves created though lack of positive action When they had the chance. I feel no sympathy for them and lord knows there are lots of them!

[multime]

From Ga charter well let me think . ? Slingair, Gunbalanya, ****air, clearing $380-00 a week. 10 foot caravan rental with no aircon $140-00 per week. Not hard maths. Economics.
Ag (first time around) 4 days loading day and night. ? Covered in grease, treated like sh*t, covered in chemical, hearing voices in the middle of the night, ?. Plenty of lies and promises.?
Ag - Second time around !!! I,m staying.

[2ndGen]

After busting my 1000 hour mark, working my tail off in every condition imaginable and myself too being mid-twenties and out of neccesdity having to move back in with my parents I am also toying with the idea of calling it a day... Also not because I can't do the hard yards, not because I am treated badly in my current job... But because I have come to the realisation that my whole life flying has come first and I have lost the balance... Social life, financial stability, relationships, my sanity and now my independence have all been sacrificed and I while I was for a long happy and 'committed' enough to do that... I don't see a time in the near enough future where this will end.
But who knows.... The stubbornness in me wants a return on that investment & meaning for that sacrifice. Watch this space.

[Monopole]

I couldnt start to tell you how often I was going to throw it all in. It started with the day I gained my CPL....... Couldnt find a job. Was gonna chuck it in. But then I got a job..... Couldnt get an IFR twin gig...... Was gonna chuck it in, but got a job, and so on it went......

Then came time for my ATPLs. Well that was it. Was never gonna happen. I found every reason under the sun why I shouldnt do them and leave the industry. It was actually my wife who said to me (and I have found myself saying the same to others), "if you want to quiet, fine quiet. But do it on YOUR TERMS, and not because the industry has beaten you. Do your ATPLs and if you still want to chuck it all away then you have my support"......

I have been flying ever since........ and I still havent forgiven her. :E

[dabz]

When I was a little boy I wanted to be a bus driver! wahoo!
Then oneday I got to sit in the cockpit for take off and landing of a DC10-30 omg! I figured out pilots are glorified bus drivers but cooler with more expensive toys!

Once I finished school I used to wake up at 6am, catch the train south, then walk an hour to the aerodrome to do my PPL, CPL, IF theory then hitch a ride to McD's where I'd work 6pm-11pm. Walk home for 30mins to sleep then repeat.

I did this for a year.

I got past first solo then ran outta cash, that McD's salary just wasn't cutting it!

So I had to give up and work full time for a few years, I was never happy over these years.

I begged the CP of my school to let me have another shot and I finished my CPL, IF and ATPL subjects while working full time over 2 years.

I then took all that lovely leave I saved up from working and took 4 months off to do my instructors rating and finish my diploma in aviation.

You'd think I woulda picked up a job instructing.. noooo lifes not that easy!

Start to finish of my training was about 8 years and I though NZ was pretty cruel to me but I never gave up...

I packed my bags, said bye to my friends and family and headed to Auz.
That was very very hard, specially since I thought it could be the last time I saw my mum alive.

After getting a few hot tips I setup camp somewhere I was likely to get work, picked up a job at the local pub where all the pilots hung out and found a 2nd full time job which gave me food and accomodation.

I worked really hard and got to know people and after 2 months of being in Aus and 9 years of chasing my dreams I got the call.

Last week was my first week and I've done a few ferry flights and some ICUS and loving every moment. The work's only going to pick up too.

Did I ever think about giving up? yes but the thought of me giving up and being old and grey thinking "what if I never gave up, would I have ever made it to my dream job?" kept me going. I never want to be that guy...

[itsbrokenagain]

I did 1989 thru 2004 instructing (albeit very advanced and well paid at the end as a JAA Head of Training) , before hitting jets....

Started in YSBK , then moved through 4 countries, before landing in the USA (all as a instructor!) Now a USA citizen as well as Oz citizen and working on contract with a very nice 6 figure salary in a jet with less than 500hrs on its airframe now (the salary is due to the fact the flying is in a very backward country... )

I will say I have never been without a flying job since starting, BUT I have seen many people give up as they realised that flying that shiny Boeing or Airbus just wasnt all it was cut out to do... I could probably name at least 20 people right now who got out after getting their CPL's and without a job falling into their laps they left for other industries.

[Mr_Pilot]

GMac115,

It is hard... sometimes impossible...

About a year ago I was in a similar circumstance and had to go hunting around the country, I had to make numerous promises to those I loved that I would be fine and I would try and see them as much as I could... none of which happened and all of which I broke...

It broke me, I was down and out very much like what you seem to be now... I thought about quitting and have the luxury of having other professional and passions behind me... the question that drove me on was why I was so down and out?? It was not because I was underqualified... it was not because I was underskilled... it was simply because I was not in the right place at the right time...

Life is much bigger than flying... try never to forget that, you will find many times in your life that you will love and loathe any job...

Over one year on, I am in a job where I am incredibly happy, I have the best boss of my working life, I have a team I work with that are incredibly professionaly and curteous. I work everywhere and no where but am able to try and make it home for all the big things in my life that dictates.

I am no longer in a rush to reach to the shiny LHS of a jet, and found what it is to build time in a happy place. I want to impress on you that there is going to always be nice people out there (far and few between with bosses admittedly) but there will be many people out there that genuinely want to see you achieve your goals and dreams...

Cut out all the people that whinge about how hard it is... Move on when you can, to something you like doing (flying or not) and you will not even notice that you are doing something that requires your attention and effort.

If money means nothing to you and you want to cut through the ranks go to CX and the cadetship there... IMHO it is a gross discredit to the experience you already have and would be unhappy working there... but remember that you did not get into flying with the thoughts of a house, wife, kids, future... Maybe instruct aerobatics, fly a float plane.... recapture the passion and have a realisation which I find at the bottom of my third pint as "moment of clarity"... remember why you love it and ask your self then wether it is worth it...

Speak to anyone who has stuck it out long enough and has stayed the course and they will tell you... as the above posts have already, that good things do come to those who wait... but again... make sure you frame your reference around that moment of clarity or I think you will become bitter and disengauged with flying...

I only hope you find what makes you happy... MP

[rodrigues]

I guess a valid question now is, what options exist to qualified pilots, within Aviation but outside of driving? Obviously this will vary depending on experience levels, and the obvious answer is ATC of some shape or form.

Does a CPL/ATPL provide a foundation for any other careers within Aviation?

How can you blame any Pilot observing the erosion of conditions within the industry, contemplating moving on? I'm contemplating keeping my love of flying as just that, something I do in my spare time, instead of holding onto it as the justification is surviving in perhaps one of the most misconceived, :mad: industries around. *End rant*

[CoodaShooda]

I listened to the older, more experienced hands who told me of:
-large and growing number of unemployed pilots
-declining conditions even if you got that elusive job
-declining maintenance standards
-growing regulation
-fuel crisis
-no future in aviation

and so I stuck with the comfy, well paid office job.

That was in 1977 lads. Doesn't seem that much has changed.

The result is a Pprune name that says it all and, finally, getting the gleeful opportunity to scare the hell out of an RAA instructor every now and then.

[jieunni]

Pprune.

Pprune was what had me think it all over again. From year seven to year eleven, I was dead set on getting my license asap and going bush/instructing. After having work experience at Qantas and talking to others who had been in the aviation industry for a lengthy time (TAFE teacher, flying instructors, pilots), I had doubts as to whether a career as a pilot was viable.

If it wasn't for pprune I probably wouldn't have asked the right questions with respect to a flying career. I'm sort of at the complete opposite end of the age spectrum but that's sort of been an advantage because I have time on my side. But by no means have I quit because I have lessons fortnightly so I should have a CPL by the end of my degree. I guess at this time it's about opening opportunities. If in the end it doesn't work out with the flying, at least I'll be able to fly as a hobby, but I know I'll live with a twinge of regret having not gone down that path. :(