NSW Central Coast 'airport push'

[Like This - Do That]

G'day Team

I can't find a link to an online version of this little article from the hardcopy SMH, so I've written it out for y'all - please excuse any typos, they'll be mine ....

Mayors on the central coast are calling for Sydney's second airport to be built in their region, saying it will boost jobs and tourism. The Gosford mayor, Laurie Maher, and the Wyong mayor, Doug Eaton, will put forward a proposal for an airport west of the F3, possibly at Somersby or Peats Ridge, to the Central Coast Regional Organisation of Councils tonight.

Comments or observations? For what it's worth, I think they have Buckley's chance of getting one built.... for a start, who do they think will stump up the money to acquire land and build it?

[bentleg]

Given that Wyong Council is pushing to close Warnervale, I don't get it.

[RENURPP]

it would need to have some good navigation equipment sitting on the top of the ridge at Peats Ridge.
Dream on guys, I couldn't think of a worse location to put an airport weather wise!

[Taildragger67]

Williamtown? Train to Gosford? QED.

[jportzer]

Williamtown? Train to Gosford? QED. QED?? Since when does Williamtown have a railway station, or even the inkling of plans of building a line that way?

Even if a branch line were built to Williamtown, it would probably take 2 hrs to get there from Gosford knowing the speed of Sydney trains ...

[Wally Mk2]

We have a "second" airport now in Syd, it's called Kingsford Smith as the current one is only being used at half capacity (or thereabouts).
It's a joke that the gateway to OZ is a curfew drome with Pollies/whingers running the show:ugh:
It would take 10 yrs to have another international drome up & running from planning stage to the first 'clear to take off' is issued. We'll be lucky to have an aviation industry in 10 yrs time when you look at the crap we have in this fractured industry now!!:ugh:
Fast trains are the go,always wanted to be a train driver as a kid. No steering wheel, no Inst App's in bad Wx or someone giving you a hard time in the Sim, just a go pedal & a stop pedal:ok:


Wmk2

[Taildragger67]

Since when does Williamtown have a railway station?

My point exactly - upgrade Williamtown's civil facilities, lay a track and there is your central coast airport, at rather less than the cost of laying out new runways. Certainly some cost for land purchase and construction, but not on the scale of a new field.

[Tmbstory]

Many years ago the Abi group Limited put out a pre-feasibility study on the above project.

It could still work if Williamtown was used in conjunction with a high speed rail system to Sydney.

It is a pity that it did not go ahead.

Tmb

[bentleg]

Williamtown was used in conjunction with a high speed rail system to Sydney.


+1 Forget about Central Coast or Goulburn - Williamtown is the answer with an extension of the Sydney/Newcastle rail link to Williamtown.

[Under Dog]

They are Dreamin!!!
This has been a political football for years and nothins about to change.
No Government here in Aus will make a decision on another airport for
fear of upsetting a minority group, least of all Albanese who lives in fear
of losing his seat.

Regards
The Dog:ok:

[sprocket check]

Albanese has no balls and IS going to lose his seat.

Somersby primary school has more balls than the entire parliament.

There will be no airport on the Central Coast.

Williamtown MAY be used for freight in 15-20 years time.

There will be no high speed rail, we are now totally in debt thanks to Krudd/Pinocchio and soon won't be able to afford a road sign, never mind a rail link.

just my 4c

sc

[FinallyTheTruth]

Albanese has no balls and IS going to lose his seat.
Somersby primary school has more balls than the entire parliament.
There will be no airport on the Central Coast.
Williamtown MAY be used for freight in 15-20 years time.
There will be no high speed rail, we are now totally in debt thanks to Krudd/Pinocchio and soon won't be able to afford a road sign, never mind a rail link.
just my 4c
sc Wow. You are genuinely not very bright.

Australia's debt to GDP ratio is the envy of the developed world. About 6%. The US - about 100%. Greece - about 150%. Japan - north of 200%.

At the same time we have an unemployment rate less than all those countries because the Government did what Governments are supposed to do when then global economy is tanking - they spent money to keep people in jobs. About 200,000 extra than if they'd done nothing.

It's one thing to not agree with policies, it's another to have no idea and sprout rubbish.

Next time keep your 4c.

[Under Dog]

"Finally the Truth"
You can rave about all the figures you like but the proof is in the Pudding.
Sprocket check has nailed it, no Decision will be made in yours or my life time.

The Dog:=

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thread Drift........

Well, I'm speculating that Mr 'A' IS about to lose his seat, but not from an Aviation related matter.....

With the current 'melt down' of the Beef Industry, and its associated 'ripple effects', including those helicopter mustering jobs and equipment (Aviation Content dispensed with), then the transport industry connected with the livestock etc etc...down the line....and now the rumours that China is describing AUS as an 'unstable trading partner'....

THE WHOLE LOT should be thrown out by a public enforced general election, so that 'we' can start again....

Oh, and did I suggest that the aviation industry be given the opportunity to 'revamp' and get back into shape as well..???

'Tell 'im 'es dreamin'.....

:yuk::yuk:

[Like This - Do That]

Righto, I'll wade back in ...

The point of an airport is to take a passenger or a container to somewhere near it's destination or next node change. If old mate lives in Gosford he can drive to Williamtown, about 130km away, takes an hour and a half. Or wait for a train to Newcastle then a bus (does one exist?) to Willy, might take half the day. He can wait for 3 or 4 decades for rail improvements, which might cut the journey to 50 min.

Or he can drive to Sydney Airport, about 90km away, takes about the same time, similar problems with the train trip (change of mode at Central).

Pretty dismal choice, isn't it?

Is there a case for a small airport served by Q400s / S340Bs / ATRs / J41 to take people from Gosford / Wyong / the Entrance / etc ... population about 1/4 million to Melbourne & Brisbane? And (crucially for DG&P GA) also available at a reasonable cost for local & visiting GA?

I dunno

[FinallyTheTruth]

"Finally the Truth"
You can rave about all the figures you like but the proof is in the Pudding.
Sprocket check has nailed it, no Decision will be made in yours or my life time.Actually you (and Sprocket Check) are probably right about that bit.

Maybe in my lifetime but it is certainly years away.

Williamtown is a tough call. Running high-speed rail through that sort of country is pretty expensive and while everyone says they want high speed rail, international experience says it doesn't pay with low population density like we have here. The patronage just wouldn't be there for many years unless you had multiple stops on the central coast (which is admittedly pretty underserviced) but then it wouldn't be high-speed.

I think Richmond is more likely. Already a train line and the duplication is already planned so extra capacity is not that hard to add (the corridor is already reserved).

Fog might be a problem but fog isn't the problem it used to be. Now Nimbyism - that will be a huge problem.

[sprocket check]

FTT:

First post, huh?
I have no interest in delving into economic why's and wherefore's with you. Politics and economics are intrinsically linked with public and personal perception and opinion and as such have no scientific or mathematic base for existence. The only reason politics exist is because of power. For economics it is greed.

If it wasn't so we would have a health system that worked. Oh, and arts, aviation and other interests and endeavours generally perceived as the domain of 'dreamers' would flourish again.

The F3 on the Central Coast (THE major artery delivering all those goodies from QLD) is the equivalent of a back road in all the places FTT mentions.

Chinese are buying up the farms now. A single purchaser (chinese govt owned firm) bought 41 of them just last month.

Most of the mining is foreign owned.

So if you take mining and ag away, what's left?

A lot of rules, regulations, bureaucrats, lawyers, MBAs and paperwork.

Back to topic: rather than building a second international airport for Sydney, bring in air taxi, allow the small to medium airports to develop and be involved in their communities again so the general public has a chance at being exposed to and excited about GA, get rid of ASICs, get rid of strict liability bs, get rid of curfew at YSSY, and as I said before in between the lines, grow some balls, or get someone with balls in.

sc

[kimwestt]

Hi ex FSO
I have never heard so much claptrap about a second airport at Peats Ridge. How many of those proposing that have actually driven through the area and looked at the geography? What an asinine suggestion.
THE WHOLE LOT should be thrown out by a public enforced general election, so that 'we' can start again....Wont'happen - there is no mechanism for a voter triggered election to happen - probably the best you could wish for is a double dissolution.
But by then, (the new 2nd airport), there probably won't be any roads, railway lines, or steel production (no carbon available) and therefore no aviation - thanks to the greens who have just taken control of the Senate, and, by their own admission, are going to make the most of the opportunity.
So all this conjecture becomes academic.
If, and only if, YSSY airport stops themselves being dictated to by the vocal minority, and gets on with the job of actually being an airport, and brings up the utilisation to where it should be, say 75 to 80%, would we then need a
2nd airport?

[Woodwork]

Very good-quality rail, albeit not electrified, already runs as far north as Kooragang Island to service the enormous coal stockpile there. The limiting factor on extending that line is crossing the Hunter River - currently, the Hexham Rail Bridge is only two tracks wide, which is already too narrow for the freight traffic that uses it. Duplicate this bridge and use the existing road reserves and Crown land via the Pacific Highway corridor and Tomago, and you could have reliable passenger rail to Williamtown in about 18 months.

The problem with rail to YWLM isn't the geography, it's the decrepit rail infrastructure, particularly bridges and signals, between any two given points on the Sydney rail network. Trains are slow because (a) they're speed-limited on the mostly Edwardian-era bridges that are slowly rusting away, and (b) they can't overtake each other, partly due a lack of appropriate track infrastructure (cross-track points) and partly because there is (incredibly) still no universal live surveillance of train positions, meaning the control room can't direct slower traffic off the mainline to allow an express past it, unless one of them is at a station, yard or halt.

Converting that line to be high-speed capable would effectively require it to be entirely re-constructed from scratch, which will cost considerably more than building a new airport or running optic fibre to every house in the country or building every primary school a new hall, or even all of those things combined! The line as it stands only got built in the first place thanks to the effectively slave labour provided by chain gangs.

That said, development applications for the first instalment of the Williamtown Aerospace Park are currently before Port Stephens Council. The first tenant will be Nathan Tinkler who is building a 737-size hangar and what looks suspiciously like an FBO, although that's not what he's selling the council. Although the consortium are keen to pitch their development at the defence industry, chances are they'll end up carrying a fair bit of freight and MRO operators given the lack of curfew, enormous land area available, and no noise abatement rules. Problem is the lack of infrastructure investment - the taxiway linking anything beyond the current BAE complex to the runway hasn't been built and will require relocation of the ATC surveillance radar, NDB, TACAN and radio transmission towers.

[peuce]

The middle east citizens seem to have found a way to produce " a public enforced general election".

Hope it never comes to that ...

[UPPERLOBE]

Illawarra & Shoalhaven same same...

Gutless pollies and nimby's have stuffed Albion Park, we have the same commute to SYD as our central coast cousins. An air taxi would be perfect in an ideal world... nah, I'm dreamin.

[truthinbeer]

Update...Central Coast airport plans take-off - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-13/central-coast-aiport-plans-take-off/5087746)

[Ultralights]

sadly its only one Nimby at YWOL. who decided to live right under the approach to runway 26, after moving from next to YSBK. she generates 99.9% of all complaints about YWOL.

[Creepy Beard]

truthinbeer, I suggest you ring the guys at YWVA and see what they have to say about Wyong Council, their plans, and the suitability of the site...you might be surprised to hear 'the other side'.

[truthinbeer]

I rode past there today Creepy and it did cross my mind to wonder if council had consulted anyone before deciding this was a plan. I am not an airport engineer so can't comment. I thought that Mirvac (? owners of YWVA) had plans to close YWVA around 2021 or thereabouts, to convert it into industrial estate. No point making enquiries at YWVA as I seem to recall I never got a response a couple of years back when I emailed about hangarage.

[Creepy Beard]

The council have basically indicated to Warnervale Aero Club & Warnervale Air that they will have to find a new site themselves, most likely within five years.

I wrote a much longer post which was basically a diatribe against the Council but I have deleted it, I think that some things are better left unsaid.

There is definitely hangarage available, best to call or pop in there (ask for Andy Smith) or try emailing them again at flywva at yahoo dot com.