Accident of CL604 in Almaty on Dec. 25th, 2007 - one fatality

[jetopa]

Here it finally is, Russian MAK's report and findings on the accident 3,5 years ago, now published in English by German air accident investigators at BFU:

http://www.bfu-web.de/cln_030/nn_226462/EN/Publications/Investigation_20Report/2007/Report__07__2X001__CL600__Almaty__MAK.RU__TranslationEN,temp lateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Report_07_2X001_CL600_Almaty_MAK.pdf

[His dudeness]

Am I just oldfashioned, or is rotation not the time to grab a checklist, especially with a 60h on type co?

According to the PIC’s explanations, which has been received in presence of the Consul General of the Federal Republic of Germany in the Republic of Kazakhstan and of the interpreter of Consulate, when the aircraft lifted off he leant to reach for the checklist and was distracted from the flight monitoring.
After the PIC lifted his head he saw that the aircraft was in severe right bank and the co-pilot was trying to level the aircraft2.

[ksjc]

This is one of several crashes under similar circumstances with the CL-600 series. With 2K hours on this type I was always a bit nervous with any takeoff in icing conditions even after de-ice/anti-ice....or with any bird **** on the wing.

Also, tailplane has no anti-ice system. Horizontal stab icing during approach is another serious issue with the Challenger.

[EatMyShorts!]

Hi Dudeness, did you read the comment at the bottom of the page? There is "reference 2": (2) According to the PIC statement there was a translation problem during the interview. According to his allegation he was always aware of the situation during takeoff and was not distracted by anything.

[His dudeness]

whoops, no I didn´t... :ugh:

Thanks EMS!

[galaxy flyer]

ksjc

I may have only half your time on it, but I don't remember anything about tailplane icing in the manuals or any restrictions relating to it. Most planes do not have tailplane anti-ice protection, either

GF

[ksjc]

Galaxy-
There are no restrictions regarding tailplane icing for this type but it is known that the CL-600 horiz stab can pick up a load of ice before it might be detected elsewhere. One clue is an unusually high nose-up pitch trim setting. Perhaps not a problem until final flaps are selected, then tailplane stall can occur.
Be careful.

[cskafan123]

One clue is an unusually high nose-up pitch trim setting. Perhaps not a problem until final flaps are selected, then tailplane stall can occur.Exactly right!

That's why you have to keep your hand on that flap lever all the time while flaps are moving from 20 to 30. And if you get a rapid nose up trim ,put the flaps back to 20.

cskafan

[TheChiefPilot]

Jetopa, Thanks for the link very interesting reading.

It shows you do it properly or there are major problems !!

:ok:

TCP

[cskafan123]

Dear Fellows,
I know this is offtopic but can someone tell me whether a MEL is required for private ops ? I got recently into private jet flying world ,from Airline flying ,and want to clirify some things.
thx

[His dudeness]

To the best of my knowledge: no.

It apparently will, when EASA Ops come into force.

(This is valid for a D-Reg airplane)

I do carry a MMEL, which I just download from:

EASA - MMELs (http://www.easa.europa.eu/certification/flight-standards/MMEL-list.php)

[cskafan123]

His Dudeness,
Thanks for reply. I thought so too. I operate a M-registered aircraft according to ANO and there is nothing said about MEL's. I was just wandering, if I get a SAFA ramp check will having MMEL instead of an approved MEL by the CAA would be an issue or not ?

[mushroom69]

This is now a very old topic, but if you do not have a MEL, then you are grounded if ANYTHING is not working! The MEL is a tool to permit you to fly with a burned out light, an inop piece of equipment. No MEL.....grounded if something does not work.

[500 above]

You will have to have the MEL approved by the IOM, that's what we had to do anway. They will keep one on file there.

[Booglebox]

Also, tailplane has no anti-ice system.

Neither do many Boeings / Airbii :suspect: