QF Telling lies about their OTP

[Jeff Ucker]

Releasing the parkbrake whilst still at the gate quite regularly are we boys/girls :=

I wouldn't do it because you never know whose actually recording your 'actual' push time other than ATC!!! Time will tell and all will be revealed...

Take credit where credit is due, but don't try and play the company game thinking no one is watching.

[OzSync]

Jeff Ucker, we really don't care who is watching...

[ejectx3]

Hey Jeff, the reason we do that sometimes is because once we are ready to push and any further delay is by ATC, we are instructed to do exactly that. Release park brake when all doors are closed and you have a tug connected and bridge has been removed, so ATC delays are not recorded as QF delays....

So....back in your box now...there's a good lad.

[gobbledock]

Releasing the parkbrake whilst still at the gate quite regularly are we boys/girls :=
Oldest trick in the book.

[kimir]

wouldn't have thought the qf gang would be looking after the company stats at the moment

[waren9]

Wouldnt say its about playing the company game, Jeff. Some just cant be arsed filling out the late notes.

There are so many factors that affect OTP, it doesnt matter how many codes are recorded, nothing ever changes. If management actually built a schedule that works and resourced it correctly, OTP will look after itself.

Just sayin'

[Ken Borough]

waren9

If management actually built a schedule that works and resourced it correctly

And what my friend are you special qualities, qualifications and expertise to comment on Resource and Schedule Planning and wheher or not it has been correctly planned? Maybe, just maybe, poor OTP is the result of poor execution. If only the pilots would stick to flying the aeroplanes....:ok:

[maggot]

QF Telling lies about their OTP
Releasing the parkbrake whilst still at the gate quite regularly are we boys/girls

I wouldn't do it because you never know whose actually recording your 'actual' push time other than ATC!!! Time will tell and all will be revealed...

Take credit where credit is due, but don't try and play the company game thinking no one is watching.

Pray tell, just who is watching and recording sufficient data to assess if such a practice even occurs, especially so with it being no secret??!

For a while though, virgin was doing that in Adelaide, back at the old 'terminal'... Paid someone to stand there with a notepad writing down such things... :rolleyes:

[waren9]

Trouble is Ken, many pilots have actually done stuff outside of flying planes. Myself included, my friend :ok:

[Chadzat]

If only the pilots would stick to flying the aeroplanes....

If only the non-pilots/engineers would stay out of the professional pilots website hey Ken.

[cart_elevator]

Unfortunately Ken,you probably wouldn't understand it. Operational staff know the time an aircraft actually takes to turn around,which often differs from what's on the schedule that a beancounter 'estimates' it can be done by.

As (supposedly) a manager you should know that so called poor 'execution' can only be the result of poor 'leadership' from management.

Operational staff know much more about such things than managers who have no operational experience ie current Qantas management.

Qantas would be in a much better place if it listened to operational staff about such things. Kudos to those with the financial know-how,but they cannot apply it to operational situations,as they do not know the operational requirements and unexpected hurdles we have to meet to get a jet out on time.

I will save the personal thoughts I have for you,as you are surely amongst those that will be culled,when the management changes again.

We will still be here :}

[blueloo]

Ken you appear to be increasing your trolling rate.... both here and on sandilands blog.

Are you just fishing for some banter due boredom?

[CaptCloudbuster]

Maybe it's because Wayne (err I mean Ken or was that Unionist) got such a battering on his QREWROOM misadventures lately...:}

[SpannerTwister]

.
And what my friend are you special qualities, qualifications and expertise to comment on Resource and Schedule Planning and wheher or not it has been correctly planned? Maybe, just maybe, poor OTP is the result of poor execution. If only the pilots would stick to flying the aeroplanes....
Hahahahahahah............

Oh wait, You were serious ??

OK, Then, I'll play !!

And what my friend are you special qualities, qualifications and expertise to comment on Resource and Schedule Planning and wheher or not it has been correctly planned...."Hello, I'm Freddie...... Blind Freddie"

Yes Ken, Even Blind Freddy can see that the delay problem isn't the guys chucking the bags in the hold, the engineers kicking the tyres, the pilots and hosties doing their pre-flight checks or the ground staff loading the passengers !

Yes, the baggage handlers MAY be loading bags 5 minutes past scheduled departure time, but that's only because you didn't give them enough staff.

Yes, there may be no tug at departure time, but that's because out of the three we have, two are unserviceable because you cut maintenance on them.

Yes, the engineers may be late getting for the pushback, but that is because you cut their numbers and one engineer cannot be in two places at once.

Yes, the aircraft may of waited for seven minutes for the ground staff to position the bridge and open the aircraft door, but that's because you made their roster so that at certain times there are three aircraft arrivals scheduled yet only one member of the ground staff rostered on, see above re: not being able to be in two places at one time !

Do you want me to go on or are you seeing a pattern here ?

ST

[porch monkey]

Out of your depth once again hey Ken? Just like the virgin thread you deleted huh? As I stated in that thread, don't you ever get sick of being wrong?:ok:

[Starts with P]

We have all seen people or groups of people trying to blame delays on everyone but themselves:

1. Paperwork is 15 minutes late, therefore re-fueler can't refuel because he doesn't know how much to put on. Therefore re-fueler is 15 minutes late filling up. Delay= Re-fueler.

2. ATC do not approve push-back when we are ready because 2 other COMPANY aircraft have called before us and are now pushed back behind us because the company organised it like that. Delay = ATC.

3. We have to hole for 15 minutes before arrival because 34 other aircraft (including 10 from my company) want to arrive at the same time. Delay = ATC.

I wouldn't drop myself in it if it wasn't my fault either, but whether the delay code recorded is accurate or not? Probably not.

[Genisis Dreaming]

2. ATC do not approve push-back when we are ready because 2 other COMPANY aircraft have called before us and are now pushed back behind us because the company organised it like that. Delay = ATC.

3. We have to hole for 15 minutes before arrival because 34 other aircraft (including 10 from my company) want to arrive at the same time. Delay = ATC.


ATC do not delay aircraft. Other aircraft delay aircraft. Massive difference.

And while on the subject of delays, slightly off topic, to the QF B738 from SY to BN last night when issued the hold at CG, asked "where is all the traffic coming from?" I say "PI$$ off.". Umm...let me guess, the sky....oh no, CS, HBA, RK, MK, PH, ML....maybe even SY.....loser.

[waren9]

Starts with P

Very good point. Trouble is, the code for "airline management" has cleverly been omitted.

:hmm:

[VBPCGUY]

I know I source the delay throughly.

[maggot]

Very good point. Trouble is, the code for "airline management" has cleverly been omitted.


hmmm, sounds like an engagement survey!

[airtags]

The OTP performance is a totally flawed system and ultimately means nothing to the punter - the stats are reported to the public typically on a network basis not by operational sector or dare I even mention by a/c type.

Smart punters know to avoid certin a/c types as they do take longer than others to board/disembark and others are uniquely & regularly delay prone due maintenance/breakdown etc etc.,

OTP performance should be a more articulate measure - and not subject to the masking techniques perfected by some carriers.

To put balance in the entire argument please note that CityRail (Sydney) and Metro (Melbourne) both offer better OTP than the major carriers, including the much lauded, praised and boasted JQ miracle 20 minute turnarounds.

Sadly like all things in RPT aviation there are too many people shuffling the papers and fighting about the insignificant while the real important stuff is overlooked.

AT

[Oakape]

ATC do not delay aircraft. Other aircraft delay aircraft. Massive difference.

Genisis Dreaming, perhaps you had better go back & read Starts with P's post again. And this time read it a little more carefully!

[framer]

To put balance in the entire argument please note that CityRail (Sydney) and Metro (Melbourne) both offer better OTP than the major carriers, including the much lauded, praised and boasted JQ miracle 20 minute turnarounds.


It's not really apples with apples though is it?

How many people are involved with turning a train around compared with a jet?
How badly does a head wind effect arrival time on an average length sector for a train?
Does poor weather reduce the number of train arrivals and departures by 70% per hour?

[waren9]

Does poor weather reduce the number of train arrivals and departures by 70% per hour?

In Melbourne it does mate, the tracks buckle above 40degC

:}

Agree with your point however

[gobbledock]

And what my friend are you special qualities, qualifications and expertise to comment on Resource and Schedule Planning and wheher or not it has been correctly planned? Maybe, just maybe, poor OTP is the result of poor execution. If only the pilots would stick to flying the aeroplanes....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Oh Ken, you really should stick to viewing aircaft take-off and landings at the end of the runway, with all the other 'spotters' wearing raincoats with binoculars in one hand and their d#cks in the other.
You see folks, Ken gets all uppity whenever a negative comment is made that could relate to his beloved Ops friends. Truth is that Ken should cease his postings/ramblings /illogical ****e immediately and go back to playing with his plastic QF toy planes. Tosser......

[framer]

In Melbourne it does mate, the tracks buckle above 40degC

Forty degrees!!! Thats rediculous, I'd buckle too in that.

[mmciau]

framer
In Melbourne it does mate, the tracks buckle above 40degC
Forty degrees!!! Thats rediculous, I'd buckle too in that.


Yes, it may be 40 degree ambient but track level temperatures may be 50 degree or higher.


Mike

[airtags]

framer - think you've missed the point.

The argument is in the irrelevancy of the OTP stat itself and the compromised method used to measure and quantify.

Notwithstanding the varying factors between different transport modes, the claims of quality/performance based on an aggregated and somewhat subjective percentage are little more than fiction.

However, in context, and based on QF's own proclaimations, it is currently totally reasonable and correct to say that the trains have better OTP than planes. - (a few 40 degree plus in Melbourne might sway the equation in peak summer).

If it goes the other way, then I'm more than sure it will be attributed to those 'misled' pilots and engineers.

(Note to the agency - forget the spec "best OTP ad layouts" ....AJ will need the money for his exit bonus)

AT

[spelling_nazi]

You know what is "rediculous", is the spelling on this forum. It is deserving of "ridicule".

[Capt Claret]

In my ops CC report to the gate at -20 and commence boarding at -17, aerobridge or stand-off bay. If being pushed back, once the door's closed we can request push back and thence be off blocks, starting as we push back.

Whereas on a taxi-out stand-off bay, there's an extra three minutes required to start before being able to taxi.

So, a taxi-out stand-off bay puts us behind the clock before anyone does anything. Bugger having to fill out paperwork because the system is against one. :oh:

[Mr. Hat]

People that think they are being clever by fibbing on otp only make the problem worse. It happens at all airlines.

[DutchRoll]

And what my friend are you special qualities, qualifications and expertise to comment on Resource and Schedule Planning and wheher or not it has been correctly planned? Maybe, just maybe, poor OTP is the result of poor execution. If only the pilots would stick to flying the aeroplanes....
Pfffffffft! Oh crap........coffee all over my computer monitor yet again!

When you get even the duty schedulers saying to you at sign-on for a pattern that "we know this pattern is going to be a disaster, but that's the way the planning people have done it", then you know something is badly wrong.

[Helmut Smokar]

Very good point. Trouble is, the code for "airline management" has cleverly been omitted.

Actually there is a code, 191 Airport Procedural Error. Works just fine. ;)

[gobbledock]

Does QF still use 990 ? JQ wont allow it to be used and they won't accept delays due to catering either.
Ken, where are you, oh font of operational knowledge ? Can you provide an accurate update or are you still out along the fence line at Avalon photographing those exciting beasts as they touch down in the crosswinds ?