AUGUST 24th - QANTAS

[thecatinthehat]

C'mon, Someone must have some idea about that slaughter house awaits us all on August 24th - Discuss ?

[ejectx3]

Joyce will pull of a rubber mask to reveal he is really Ms Jackson?

[7378FE]

In a nutshell, As far as QF international is concerned, if a route doesn't work with a 747 or 380, it's gone.

More flying for Jetconnect and Jetstar, Jetstars international aircraft to be repainted in to the QF livery, but still operated by Jetstar, the same as the current Jetconnect operation.

Enjoy :E

[Sunfish]

Sounds like an excuse for international pilot redundancies.

[Al E. Vator]

Sounds like an excuse to attempt to SCARE a disenfranchised pilot group from industrial action.

Not very sophisticated either.

Beware the trolls, naysayers and muckrakers gents and stick to your plans.

[Sunfish]

Boys and Girls, its pretty obvious a private buyer wants the Qantas brand. They just don't want the people who built it.

The share price is being driven down, i'd be looking for someone to "short" Qantas when the offer is about to be made. There will be redundancies, but that won't help. Someone will take the corpse of the small shareholders hands and "voila!" as if by magic, the company flowers again, but in private hands!

To put it another way, the Regulator is toothless and the markets are rigged.

[Cactusjack]

Joyce will pull of a rubber mask to reveal he is really Ms Jackson?
Or put on a rubber mask and pretend he is Darth. Aug 24 announcement to be held at The Hellfire Club.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Perhaps the 24 th would be the perfect day for PIA, would knock the wind out of any BS from above, the media just loves to focus on the negative stuff ( it sells papers ).

At the very least it would water down their media frenzy for, you know, the pontificating.

[skybed]

1) Qantas International based in SIN( remember SQ wants to open by years end an international low cost carrier. The problem for QF will be SQ low cost will tie up many landing slots in Europa).
2) pilots redundancies (cabin crew VR is at the moment actioned)
3) more route losses to QF (Buenos Aires comes to mind)
4) more routes to J*.
5)more bonuses because the share price will go up
6)Management reshuffle (watch this space):E
7) a new adverstising campaign (always impresses the journos):yuk:

[Mr.Buzzy]

Tic toc tic toc.... Goes the playschool clock!!!!
Time to get real kiddies..... Strike or be struck!!!

Bbbzbbz zzzzbnnbzzz

[ejectx3]

I don't think I've ever hated anyone in my life.....I mean really hated....until now....

[ampclamp]

Don't let emotions make the decisions or let the situation get to you. It will not change anything by worrying, hating etc.

Just remember..

IF YOU DON'T FIGHT , YOU LOSE!

[7378FE]

Resistance is useless.

Apologies to Vogon guards :)

[Normasars]

It's WAY too late already.

These plans would have been afoot for quite sometime, and by now extremely well advanced. Sad but true.

What Buzzy said!!:ok:

[DirectAnywhere]

To me the thing that says most about management is the fact that no-one from flight ops management has yet acknowledged that there is a friggin' great big pachyderm sitting in the immediate contained environs (elephant in the room).

Nearly a week since AJs press club speech and no communication at all from Fleet Manager level or higher.

A vague statement from a couple of managers today saying stay operationally, not industrially, focussed doesn't really cut it for those wondering if they'll have a job in eight weeks.

Someone - at Fleet level or above - needs to have the guts to stick their head above the parapet and acknowledge that people are feeling concerned and start to really manage the situation. That would, however, require a level of empathy that appears to be sadly lacking.

[rodchucker]

DA,

Even if anyone was to stick their head up it is blatantly obvious that they will be either lied to or mislead by all and sundry.
This is a very sad state of affairs where these pretenders are playing with the lives of genuine and caring people (largely) but they don't give a toss.

How you can counter what is happening is beyond any rational thought because no one who can exert any influence seems to give a toss.

I did have a rare smile when I read somewhere that PPRUNE s causing some to get concerned.

Hello, where have they been while this orchestrated outcome has been evolving for all to see.

Since when do investors don't care about strategy risk, management integrity and blatant lies. They need to pull their heads out of the sand or wherever they have them stuck.

When the final game is played there is not a soul here who could not see it coming saving for Ken.

Hang on to your hats and coats because this is going to be a wild ride which no one but a few bonus driven individuals want.

[TIMA9X]

Qantas to ground some US flights (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-to-ground-some-us-flights-20110724-1hvc9.html)

It's all leaking out, ...... again


Qantas to ground some US flights


QANTAS is expected to axe flights between Los Angeles and New York as part of cuts to its route network aimed at stemming losses from its international operations.
As the outcome of a wide-ranging review looms, services between the US's east and west coasts are believed to be the most likely to be ditched while the jury remains out on whether Qantas will stop flying to Buenos Aires, Honolulu and Mumbai.
However, Qantas is believed likely to cease services between Auckland and Los Angeles, and be replaced by Jetstar on the route.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Although Jetstar, Qantas' budget subsidiary, has flown to Hawaii for the past five years, it has long toyed with plans to fly to the US mainland. San Francisco has been touted previously as a destination for Jetstar, but taking over from Qantas on the Auckland-Los Angeles route is considered the most likely option.
Speculation has been mounting about the likely cuts, but insiders say the network review to be announced on August 24 as part of a four-pronged strategy to turnaround Qantas's international operations will not be as dramatic as predicted.
''It's more surgical than widespread,'' one said of the route cuts.
Top of the list of services to be axed are those between Los Angeles and New York. Qantas has long struggled to make those flights using Airbus A330s profitable because of insufficient through traffic.
Should the route be axed, Qantas's alliance partner, American Airlines, would provide connecting flights between Los Angeles and New York. The airlines are awaiting regulatory approval to deepen their alliance on the trans-Pacific route.
Flights to Argentina and India could also be axed, but it is considered unlikely Qantas will shelve services to Johannesburg because the route has been profitable.
The airline is also unlikely to want to give up its duopoly with South African Airways on direct flights between Australia and Johannesburg.
Competition on the route was lessened last year when Virgin ditched flights between Melbourne and Johannesburg because of the large losses it was incurring.
Qantas declined to comment on the routes likely to be axed. "No decisions have been taken about individual routes and any suggestion otherwise is speculation," a spokesman said.

[Qantas 787]

AKL/LAX to JQ would not be a surprise at all.

HNL is making money I believe but I am sure it will go so JQ can increase thier services.

Pulling out of EZE would be such a backward step. India will go for sure.

JFK - hmm. Big call to make - obviously a lot of J cabin is not being filled. I guess the corporates won't be happy travelling on AA's product thats for sure. Pulling out of JFK alltogether would be a huge city to take off the network - United would be rubbing thier hands together.

[ozaggie]

Yep, thats what any forward thinker would do. Drop services to the second fastest growing economy in the world !
Numpties! :

[hotnhigh]

Not much left for the smartest guys in the room to chop. Either way, they have effectively ringed barked the qantas tree.
People being left behind in jfk the last few days due to aircraft being chockers.

[Tankengine]

Flight Ops briefing 2 weeks ago said JFK ops profitable!:rolleyes:
Last 2 flights I did were chockers!:ugh:

[airtags]

sadly 'real' numbers have nothing to do with this whole matter.

.....just another excuse to add another orange star into the Pacific night sky :yuk:

AT

[600ft-lb]

Look at it from another angle, the 767 fleet is only getting smaller and its a pathetic offering for business class pax domestically.

The international config A330's that are deployed on the terribly loss making full services will more then likely be redeployed to backfill the retirement of the 767. Seeing as there is only 2 widebody aircraft to be delivered to the loss making legacy arm of the carrier until the magical jetstar receives the first 15/20/45 787's.

By 2014 the domestic fleet will more then likely be 20 a330's, half dozen 767s and 738's.

But why let the truth get in the way of a good story, especially when you can spin around a total lack of investment in your core business to look like its your staffs own fault.

Or as a manager would put it 'leveraging synergies to facilitate workplace change'.

Lucky we have ':yuk:insiders:yuk:' to drip feed the media to keep it a headline along with a quick reply for :yuk:Qantas:yuk: saying its only speculation nothing is confirmed. Read between the lines and don't fall for their narrative of how they want to world to remember their failures.

[qfguy]

It wouldn't surprise me if they axed JFK when the flights are full.

SFO was axed and only 1 week before they shut they were still deny boarding 8 commercial J/C pax due to oversale and on the last couple of flights ex SYD no staffies could get on due to it being chockers. A mate of mine told me that their loads were up 1000 pax for the month of april 2011 compared to April 2010.

Yeap, if NY flights are full it would seem a good time to go ahead and can the route!:ugh:

[Fruet Mich]

Interesting, in 2008 Qantas turned a NET profit of $969 million.

Jetstar at the time had 24 Airbus A320's and 6 A330's (gifted by Qantas) 30 aircraft total.

Since then Jetstar has received a further 34 A320's, 6 A321's and 3 A330's making a total aircraft fleet of 73. Effectively Jetstar has more than double their fleet.

Jetstar has taken over routes from Qantas which in turn has handed valued customers to opposition companies who provide SERVICE.

Now Qantas managers tell the world that after doubling the Jetstar fleet and nearly halving the 2008 profit, Jetstar is the profitable arm of Qantas.

Good luck with that! No wonder Walsh and other airline CEO's around the world are scratching their heads and having a good laugh at AJ and BB.

I'm curious to know how you make money from a low cost A330 from AKL to LAX when you can't make it from the same aircraft full cost? Hilarious, well not really, I feel absolutely guttered for you guys at Qantas, and I'm a kiwi!

I look forward to seeing how BB plans to get pilots to fly his aircraft in Asia when Asian airlines are paying big money to attract ex-pats. Do these guys think before they act?

Very sad indeed. Unfortunately these guys are on a mission and can't be stopped, when the company has gone tits up, they'll have their bonuses and will be reeking havoc on another unfortunate company with their hideous ideas.

It's almost a huge dick swing. I think they have been told by so many people this can't and won't work that they are hell bent on making it.

[topend3]

Geoffrey Thomas today reporting that Sydney-Santiago is one of the routes on the chopping block...hey Geoffrey if you are reading this do your homework douche...QF don't fly it, apart from a codeshare with LAN via AKL...

[DirectAnywhere]

The leaks have started.

It appears Sir Humphrey Appleby was wrong - the ship of state is not the only ship that leaks from the top.

[Bazzamundi]

Do you people not understand? Of course they have to chop the profitable routes. The whole point of the exercise is to make mainline unsustainable. At all costs, it must be made to look like Jetstar is the saviour.

Unfortunately, uneducated silly staff need to grasp this concept, be a part of it, bend over, and see how the best managers aviation has ever seen get on with taking over the world.

We will probably get a pair of orange colored glasses instead of a bonus or staff travel voucher this year. Then it will all make sense to all the non believers.

[unionist1974]

It seems to me the fear campaign is working , they have you guys spooked !

[POT100]

I couldn't agree more!! They are dismantling a perfectly good international business right before our eyes!..Do these people really think we're stupid??

But what I find shocking in all of this , is that the board, shareholders and the Australian people are letting them get away with it in favour of some low cost subsidiary, that wouldn't have a cak in chance of surviving without its 'mother'!!!..

must be true what they say.."Bullsh*t Baffles Brains!!!!":ugh:

[somewhereat1l]

Premonition...

Most 744's retired.

J* aircraft fitted with Skybeds

SYD-BKK-LHR goes to J*

LHR-HKG cancelled

BA cancelled

AKL-LAX goes to J*

Frankfurt goes to J*

J* Athens and Rome

Only destinations for QF - LHR via SIN, LAX and JNB

Lets hope it doesn't happen :mad:

[Coppabella]

I hear from a certain national air freight manager.
Qantas A380 orders #13 to #20 are going to Qantas Asia.
Very difficult to digest for QF staff.
Good luck with the PIA.

[topend3]

perfectly good international business

it may be perfectly good but it's losing money so how do you make it profitable?

[rodchucker]

That's easy:

1. Get decent and honest management.

2. Make Jetstar pay their own bills.

3. Stop paying fines for illegal cartels.

4. Engage staff and not treat them like lepers.

The rest is a piece of cake.

[ButFli]

I might have overheard today that all QF operations to Europe will be through SIN. Keeping HKG as a destination but the only through-connections to Europe from there will be codeshares on BA. BKK to be BA codeshare only.

Also might have heard that the SYD-DFW-BNE-SYD route will become SYD-LAX-DFW-LAX-SYD because of the range issues on the DFW-BNE they are experiencing. Going to SYD-DFW-SYD when QF get their hands on an aircraft that can do it reliably. Not too sure how this one will be operated. Whether the operation to JFK will change to DFW with with QF7/8 cancelled, whether QF7/8 are routed via LAX with other routes unchanged, whether one of the aircraft that currently lays over in LAX during the day will make the round trip to DFW, I don't which.

This is just what I may have overheard today. I can't say for sure whether it's true. Although it does sound for sure that QF are pissed at the issues with DFW-BNE and will operate the SYD-DFW-SYD route via some non-Australian port in both directions. That part I am certain about.

[Ultergra]

Noticed in the ops 1 NOTAM's the other day that Athens and Rome are now classified as MAINS!

So Qantas pay all the money to establish all the operating criteria in order for the airline to operate into it. Qantas mainline will never operate there.
Its obvious they will gift the route to Jetstar. If not them, then Qantasia.

Its a messed up situation that QF are in. Joyce and the board will hopefully come unstuck one day. Karma has a place in this world.

[The Green Goblin]

Yep, the little fella is going to get a lot of karma.

Problem is it will be jet airliner full of passengers.

Will the millions help him and the A team sleep at night?

[theheadmaster]

If ButFli is correct about all Europe flying through Singapore, it would not take a huge leap of imagination to see those routes becoming QantAsia.

[topend3]

That's easy:

1. Get decent and honest management.

2. Make Jetstar pay their own bills.

3. Stop paying fines for illegal cartels.

4. Engage staff and not treat them like lepers.

The rest is a piece of cake.

rodchucker you make it sound very simple but it isn't...

[tourismman]

They are not unhappy with DFW-BNE.It has a better result of less diversions than LAX-MEL has had for the same period.The Irishman said the same a week or 2 ago.
Last week there was a 27 man delegation from Texas who visited both BNE and SYD and included DFW CEO who stated that BNE was receiving around 120 pax a flight and SYD around the 180 pax a flight.
He wouldnt have visited BNE if they were to pull the plug.

[my oleo is extended]

Blah blah....Everything is to blame for a dip in QF's profits - Greedy Engineers, greedy Pilots, carbon tax, fuel prices, probably Hendra Virus and solar flares as well !! But of course, and no surprises here, Management are not to blame in the least !!

Fuel worries Qantas more than carbon tax

From: AAP
July 27, 2011 3:38PM
Qantas chief Alan Joyce says he's more worried about the rising price of fuel than the impact of the carbon tax. Picture: AFP Source: AFP
THE escalating fuel price will have a greater impact on Australian air travel than the federal government's planned carbon tax, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce says.
Qantas and Virgin have promised to pass on the effects of the carbon tax to customers, which they say will increase one-way fares an average of between $3 to $3.50.
But Mr Joyce said today he was much more concerned about fuel costs impacting on the business.
Qantas has said it expects the planned carbon tax to cost the airline group, comprising full service Qantas mainline and low-cost offshoot Jetstar, between $110 million and $115 million in 2012/13.
“The rise of fuel prices greatly outweighs that,” Mr Joyce told reporters in Brisbane.
“Our fuel bill this year will be $4.6 billion.”
He said the airline had no choice but to pass the impact of the carbon tax onto passengers.
“But if you ask me what I'm worried about, I'm more worried about fuel price than I would be about carbon price,” he said.
Virgin Australia estimates it will take a $45 million hit in 2012/13 from the carbon tax based on current domestic fuel consumption.

[600ft-lb]

1.00 AUD = 1.10669 USD
Of course this GLARING REALITY will be but a mere 1 liner in any report.


Lets just forget Qantas's purchasing power has never, ever, been greater.

Unless one of the smartest people in the room in the finance roles hedged and prepaid for fuel when the AUD was .90 USD last year

[Bazzamundi]

But buying 777's with the strong dollar and negotiated 787 delay compensation would be a stupid idea. Cannot have mainline making a smart business decision, can we? That would hurt the big agenda.

What other airline has successfully eaten and overtaken the main brand with a low cost version? Surely if so many have faaarked it up before our mob would not. Or is it a major loss of face to admit defeat?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Latest rumour here. Jetstar to get two 744's.

[SOPS]

JQ getting 744. I have been waiting to hear that story...it would all add up as part of the plan.

[1a sound asleep]

http://i55.tinypic.com/2ltg6y9.jpg

[1a sound asleep]

QF wet lease to JQ including flight crew and use JQ cabin crew. As it is they cant sell the 744 fleet - nobody wants them

[Con Catenator]

Mmmmm.....

The color scheme does look better on a larger aircraft.:D

[allthecoolnamesarego]

Makes the article in the age a week or so ago more meaningful.
Something about the Dallas route being 80 % leisure travelers. Paint a 744 with a cancerous star and voila!

[The Green Goblin]

Sounds like JQ to San Fran from Australia direct then.

Ter be sure, ter be sure........:ugh:

[the_company_spy]

If true do we think Boganstar will be gifted two of the older clapped out Qf -400s with the lucky dip RR engines? Not likely, probably two shiney new ones with low mileage, new interiors and mint GE engines.........

On second thoughts, it would not surprise knowing the ineptitude of Qf management to give away two of the six-400 ERs.

[Mud Skipper]

If we are lucky OM could go over and be their fleet manager:yuk:

[my oleo is extended]

If we are lucky OM could go over and be their fleet managerhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif
Yes yes yes !!!
On second thoughts, it would not surprise knowing the ineptitude of Qf management to give away two of the six-400 ERs.
Perhaps leased to Orangestar by leasing companies which have executive management ties ? Just a thought.

[assasin8]

I believe the B747 is going to be named Bougainville... :ok:

[King William III]

Does this mean the poor over=stretched Jetstar single on-shift LAME is now going to have to cover not just 2 A330's and a couple of A320's at different ends of the airport at the same time but also a 747 as well?

HELLO CASA ????????


Imagine how different it would be if CASA was a real regulator with real teeth….not just fake rubber ones…..provided by QF…...

[breakfastburrito]

Latest rumour here. Jetstar to get two 744's.
I wondered why a former deputy chief pilot was floating around the network flattering malleable FO's, now a scenario becomes clearer.

[Shark Slayer]

If JQ replaces QF as it seems they will, then all my personal flying will go to anyone else except the Q group!

Will they try and sell the corpse to a nearly bankrupt consortium again? :D:D:D

[OneDotLow]

I hate to discredit a good conspiracy theory. But have you ever noticed that the tail of a 747 and A330 are very similar in shape and proportion? In fact quite a few times, from a distance and with the fuselage hidden behind a building, I have mistaken one for the other.

Is it possible someone has simply seen the top half of the tail of a JQ 330 and mistaken it for a 744?

Especially given the lack of photographic evidence of this abomination...

[the_company_spy]

OneDotLow, the ALAEA FEDSEC posted "Jetstar TO get two 744s" implying that they are to get them some time in the near to middle future. Hasn't happened yet, but it would not surprise me.

[GUARD]

Well I,ve spoken to a couple of mates in Jetstar who informed me that Jetstar cancelled 50 to 60 sectors per day in Melbourne and Sydney each day recently so I wouldn't! Be too worried about them taking over the world just yet. They're SHORT.......SERIOUSLY SHORT OF PILOTS!!!!!

GUARD :ok:

[32megapixels]

If Jetstar recieve 2 747's, it would be interesting to see if economy class would resemble the economy class in Snoop Dogs 2004 movie Soul Plane?

[1a sound asleep]

If anybody heard the Melbourne radio story this morning that the rumour is all 744 will go to JQ. I find this hard to believe and just wonder if somebody is perpetuating rumours?

[The Green Goblin]

It's just a ploy sound a sleep until they tart up a couple of ay twee aytees in silver :eek:

[bgspilot]

A 744 scc showed me his line with 2 endorsement sims on it. They were in about a months time. Not sure if it's related.

[tryhard1]

With everyone doing close to 100 hours a month, called in on days off, they are short of pilots, and I would say 60 is about right..

[The Green Goblin]

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=74&jumival=708&gclid=CO29wOrutKoCFZGCpAodxkFC7Q

This is some very good watching if you have the time.

I especially like the idea of a two tier board such as is practiced in Germany. The second tier is made up of stakeholders and must approve any major decision, purchase or strategy of the board.

The way Qantas has been run is all about short term decisions to maximize short term profit and KPI bonuses, against the long term prosperity of the company.

Qantas is now starting to reap what Dixon sowed, and Joyce is trying to spin his way out of it.

[TIMA9X]

and Joyce is trying to spin his way out of it. and he is not doing a very good job of it, blind Fredeeee could call a commentary on everything he does.

[Lookleft]

rmcdonal- Your maths is correct, your assumption is not. This time of year is supposed to be the "quiet" time of year which is why J* want to go to contract pilots for the apparent peaks and troughs. It is also why there are more leave slots available. Flight Ops has been putting out emails for the last 2 months wanting to buy back leave because they are that short of crew. At the beginning of 2010 it was stated within J* that there was going to be 200+ training slots of which 120 were to be Command upgrades. It didn't happen because I suspect they were developing the dodgy contract and didn't want more new commands on the EBA. The shortfall in captains is starting to bite. With the freeze on recruitment they will have the same problem with F/O's running out of hours in the near future. The last time they were short of F/O's RHS endorsed captains were actually losing currency in the LHS because they were being rostered as F/O's. This is just a small example of the short term planning this company and by implication the whole "Group" is managed.

[waren9]

they will have the same problem with F/O's running out of hours in the near future


Its happening now. STBY's being turned into DFD's because they've run out of hours.

[bubble.head]

I think the latest turn of events in the global financial market is the perfect scapegoat for AJ to start cutting back Qantas, and offshore to a cheaper subsidaries.

[Handbrake]

Chill out kids. Today's economic turn will be a huge concern to the headless chooks. Their entire business plan is to off-shore with a start up airline.

The perfect response from QF staff and stakeholders in this situation is:


"Given such economic instability, why would the Qantas CEO want to syphon/dismember/throw away/risk Qantas' assets, systems and infrastructure, to fund a startup airline in Asia where they will be brutalised by the homegrown competitors"?

Spin it, you win it.
Who expands into new aviation ventures during a GEC???????

[The Green Goblin]

Isn't that exactly what Jetstar have done since 2008?

[PIOT Bord]

Outsourcing the engine maintenance has worked so well for Qantas, I'm hearing that the genius' are going to outsource Maintenance Watch come 24th August. You know, the technical gurus that watch the operating parameters of all aircraft. You call them, or they call you, when safety could start to become an issue during a flight; the guys that provide support when the engineers notice defects not seen before.

Apparently it can be done cheaper through a call centre in Manilla.

Tell that to the Crew and pax of flight QF32!!

[Fuel-Off]

Who expands into new aviation ventures during a GEC???????


To play devil's advocate...Didn't V Australia start up during GFC 1.0?

Fuel-Off :ok:

[7378FE]

To play devil's advocate...Didn't V Australia start up during GFC 1.0?


Yep, you are correct, and they even fly to the UAE, who would have thought an Australian airline would have the balls to do something like that?

[ButFli]

To play devil's advocate...Didn't V Australia start up during GFC 1.0?


And how is V Australia's profitability at the moment? (or ever)

[watch your6]

There are very few airlines that are profitable.Lets not single out VB.They are doing what the fools at Qantas should be doing

[ButFli]

There are very few airlines that are profitable.Lets not single out VB.They are doing what the fools at Qantas should be doing


So "the fools at Qantas" should randomly chop and change routes and ensure their airline isn't profitable? Okay.

[Nassensteins Monster]

Within 2 years VB will be sh!tting all over Qantas.

The following quotes are from Australian Aviation July 2011 edition.

John Borghetti: "To be honest I am staggered at what we have achieved given the hurdles that have been thrown at us, and I'm immensely proud of what the guys have done."

JB: "If you said to me what are the two things that you think you are blessed with in terms of walking into this business, I have to say the brand, because you have got a brand that is recognised all oer the world. And the second thing is - I hate using this word - [B]the engagement of the staff. These guys are hungry for the changes that we are making, almost as much as I am, if not more. And any CEO who walks into a company and has got a great brand that you can use, and great staff who are totally engaged and want to make the changes, you are there. The rest you should be able to manage."

JB: "I was very fortunate because whilst I had a strategy in mind, when I walked in I also spent two months from the day of appointment to the day of starting travelling around the network talking with staff and learning the business. And what I found was that the feedback that I was getting from the cabin crew, the pilots, the ground handling staff, some of their recommendations, some of their thoughts on what the airline should do, are identical to what I was doing... By the time I started almost half my strategy had already been validated by the staff, so then it was just a question of continuing to talk with staff and keeping them in the loop as to what we were doing as much as possible."

JB: And to this day, every time I catch a flight... I will always talk with the cabin crew and the pilots because there is nobody in the airline, not management, not anybody, who knows more about the business than the pilots and the cabin crew, nobody.... They are the eyes of the business... so we need to engage with them, we need to listen, because these guys know what they're doing."

JB: "I don't know any other way you can manage a business. I don't know the answers, I sit in an office, if I don't go out and talk to my staff how do I know what happens outside these walls? There isn't a day in my life that I don't talk to a customer or a staff member - I'm not talking management because I talk with management every day - because you have to. I'm a firm believer in that."

JB: "Very important... You don't want to become a highly bureaucratic organisation..."

JB: "So I think that the way people present themselves, how they conduct themselves, how they behave, their ethics, their moral standards, they are very important to the brand."

JB: "The second part of the brand is Australia, and I think we are Australian, we employ Australians, and it is therefore our duty... to ensure that we do as much work onshore as possible in Australia."

JB: " I know alot of people are thinking that offshoring is the way to go for the future - I don't believe that. How can you have the word Australia on the fuselage and do that?" It just doesn't make sense, so what have we done to prove that? Well, we just made a commitment in building a hangar in Sydney so we can do maintenance here - some of that work was going to go overseas."

JB: "So with brand I think it is important that the words you use you have to live by, because if you don't people will see through it."

JB: "I always say that you forget the customer at your peril. in any deal that you do, doesn't matter what the deal is, whether it's an alliance, a union deal, I don't care what deal - if you don't think about the customer while you are doing that deal, you will regret it at some time."

AJ & BB: "Rogues", "kamikazes", "cloud cuckoo land"

Come back John, all is forgiven!

[1a sound asleep]

Somebody told me there is a rumour about future A380 deliveries being based offshore. Does anybody have any knowledge of this?

[ohallen]

It is blatantly obvious that the Execs want to take the Rat offshore and avoid paying Oz tax, Oz workers etc etc.

What they don't realise (or care) is they cannot be the Oz iconic brand and do what they are planning.

Somehow they have to get this message, although I suspect that will only happen when they are abandoned en masse by the travelling public when it happens.

The vultures are already circling and just waiting for the right time to move and expect Singapore to be upfront and centre very soon and Southern China not far behind.

The staff are just pawns in this game and largely powerless, save that they have little to lose at this time.

[victor two]

Enough of this snivelling. This is what is going to happen on August 24.

Qantas will reveal it's plans to move the company forward, some of these plans will not be popular, especially with certain disgruntled groups within this fine company. I am talking about the sooks in engineering as well as most pilots who have become stale and underperforming.

Recent posts about ego maniac captains coming EP training and disrupting classes with their own pathetic rants about things that don't concern them come to mind, proving that many in qantas put themselves before the company. There may be sackings....there are sackings in every other industry, you are not immune. Live with it.

Every one of you walked into a job interview and sold your self to win a position with qantas. You wanted this more than anything else on earth. Now, you spend your generous free time trying to pull down this company at every chance. Pathetic spoiled children.

Be a team player or go play somewhere else.

[the_company_spy]

Take one for the team V2? What your saying is I should loose my job so that AJ and the board can continue on the kpi bonus track?

I'll have a think about that and get back to you.

[ohallen]

Some also seem to forget that managers are paid to manage the company and to avoid crisis by constantly assessing and reassessing performance and options.

Corporate tsunamis don't happen overnight.

Its also very hard to digest the current situation when there was little attempt to negotiate an acceptable outcome by the responsible Execs.

In my experience, credible management also avoid the traps of deceptions, lies and misrepresentations at their peril.

[OneDotLow]

Victor Two,

ego maniac captains coming EP training and disrupting classes with their own pathetic rants

You have obviously not spoken to either of the people involved, anyone who was present, or read any of the witness statements from the event. Therefore you are uninformed and should pull your head back in.

Every one of you walked into a job interview and sold your self to win a position with qantas. You wanted this more than anything else on earth. Now, you spend your generous free time trying to pull down this company at every chance. Pathetic spoiled children.

If you think for one moment that there is a single pilot working for Qantas who does not want this company to succeed then you are very, very wrong. Qantas pilots disagree fundamentally with the direction that management want to take this company because they do not believe that it is in the best interests of Qantas!

Pilot's are acutely aware that currently their future is tied to the future of Qantas and are willing to fight to keep this outfit uniquely Australian, because it will get eaten for breakfast and spat out for lunch in Asia!

[ejectx3]

Don't feed it

[Des Dimona]

You might find that this is all overtaken by world economic events with job losses industry wide on a massive scale not out of the question. :confused:

[The The]

With regard to the Australian Aviation article, it does prove a leopard can change it's spots when it suits. In a previous life, someone went to great pains to have their name stamped over the brilliant creation of Jetstar (with due disregard to mainline and mainline staff).

The current comments are more marketing spin than anything else. QF is in a bind with engagement and offshoring. What else would a competitor do but play it up as much as possible at every opportunity.

Having said that, I know who I'd much rather have in charge of QF, but all these guys are painted to some extent with the same brush. Ie an overriding belief in themselves.

[Condition 1]

Victor 2,

So get off your high horse you megalomaniac git and come talk to your staff...oh there is an idea, talk to your staff!!!!!
All IMO

This troll will follow his greedy leaders blindly: straight to Centrelink.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Victor two,
Well done on your two minutes of fame, good on you! Are you available for stand up comedy or do you only perform at kids parties?
What a complete wind-up by a complete nut Job. Or maybe it is actually BB on day release from the asylum!! :zzz:

[ferris]

Qantas is paying you good money to run interference, V2. They deserve better. Lift your game.

[TIMA9X]

I am talking about the sooks in engineering as well as most pilots who have become stale and under-performing. Wow, obviously victor two has had a bad day at the office, must have missed his bonus target.
Be a team player or go play somewhere else. Then he finishes his rant with this. Who's the spoiled child here? Pilots are continually checked for proficiency throughout their careers just to hold their jobs, too bad some of the managers aren't checked the same way, I bet this one would fail, no people skills, the endemic problem with this current Q management lot. I wonder how Vicky Two would feel if he/she was offered a job in Manila with no option of staying in his Australian home city?

[Mr Leslie Chow]

Either a management stooge or some twit who couldn't make it through psych & skills....

Might be the 'man' himself!!!

[cart_elevator]

Dont get me wrong I think that JB is doing great things for Virgin. But a couple of things from that article are a bit odd:

and it is therefore our duty... to ensure that we do as much work onshore as possible in Australia."

The same bloke was two-IC of QF when the creation of the LHR,AKL and BKK cabin crew bases. He even was the 'star guest' at the opening of the LHR cabin crew base.

there is nobody in the airline, not management, not anybody, who knows more about the business than the pilots and the cabin crew

He was also at there when cabin crew management was restructured to replace operational crew management(Line Managers) with managers off the street,who mostly had no airline experience,let alone QF experience.

I always say that you forget the customer at your peril. in any deal that you do

He also happened to be at there when on-board cabin crew numbers were slashed,the product (particularly domestic)was slashed,and the decision not to get the 777 was made.

Great to see that he is making positive publicity for himself against the same things he led the introduction of at QF :confused:

[OneDotLow]

It is only because it is a quiet day that I bothered to waste my time reading V2's posting history.

Based on his command of the english language, I don't think that he is in QF management. Or any management for that matter. He will protest that, but who cares ?

[missing link]

Too little too late, No useful PIA, No educating of the media or public - media still pushing the greedy pilot senario(Herald sun today page 13) AIPA 6 months behind the game, the only ones who don't know the game is over is the LH pilots. You only have yourselves to blame - you learnt nothing from 89.

[middleman]

Cart Elevator - doesn't that just indicate he has possibly learned from the mistakes at QANTAS ? That he has maybe realized in hindsight that those examples were not the right way to do things ?

[73to91]

Cart Elevator - maybe it also indicates that the guy had no pull at all when it came to Qantas International and Domestic for that matter. GD and PG had the control and then they came up with J* and that was their priority.

They pulled out of the Goldie and left all meetings, conferences and convention attendees move over to J* or VB, these people were happy to fly on the full service airline and even though not many seats per flight, QF also had J class.

Now JB has filled the gap:

At a media conference at the Gold Coast Airport, Virgin Australia Chief Executive and Managing Director John Borghetti announced the introduction of Business Class services to the Gold Coast* and a new luxury lounge with Queensland Minister for Tourism Manufacturing and Small Business, State Member for Whitsunday, The Honourable Jan Jarratt.

Mr. Borghetti stated that Virgin Australia would be the only airline to offer domestic Business Class services to the Gold Coast and the first for more than seven years.

“The Gold Coast is an important city in the Virgin Australia network. We carry almost one million corporate and leisure Guests each year.

“With the introduction of Business Class services by the last quarter of 2011 and the opening of our new lounge in early 2012, Virgin Australia is proudly responding to the tourism and the business sectors of the Gold Coast and South-east Queensland region,” he said.


Virgin Australia launches business class services to the Gold Coast - Airline News - etravelblackboard.com (http://www.etravelblackboard.com/article/121848/virgin-australia-launches-business-class-services-to-the-gold-coast)

[Nassensteins Monster]

Just watch QF jump on the bandwagon now.

The inevitable price war will drive down prices and profits for both airlines.

If QF mainline stayed in the market, offering a mixed class service focussing on the business travel component of Australia's largest non-capital-city market, they could've retained corporate customer loyalty and enjoyed some half decent revenues for the last 7 years.

Instead, locals tell me the Gold Coast business community are filthy with QF for pulling out, forcing them onto JQ. Give them a taste of Virgin's half-decent product and they'll never be back. Brand loyalty wasted, the vast majority to never return even IF the Red Rat rejoined the fray.

[1me]

The blatant destruction of Qantas by management and the vitriolic dross spouted by their trolls here on this forum provides a good reason to consider the reintroduction of public stonings! :E

[teresa green]

The Gold Coast business group is utterly stuffed Monster, in fact the Goldie is stuffed. Right now they need as many tourists that they can get, regardless of what flight they come in on. The amount of people using J class on QF did not warrant them staying. The Goldie is not a commercial or industrial city, its basically tourism that keeps it going. Whilst I agree and would like to see QF keep a base there, it does not warrant it. The Goldie is really suffering with the downturn, a lot of jobs lost, a lot of small business's are really struggling, and its one angry town. Me, I am a farm boy from the Hunter, would go back tomorrow, but cannot shift the missus.:*

[Jack Ranga]

Theresa,

Go back to the Gold Coast or the Hunter?

[teresa green]

Jack, the NTL airport spins me out. For years it struggled, to close to Sydney, not enough pax to give it any creed, any airline that flew in there failed, and all of a sudden it is hitting its straps. If SYD needs another airport the Hunter are crying out, look at me, look at me. The problem, transport. The chance of a very fast train, zilch, buses can do Sydney in 80 minutes (depending on traffic) nearly say NRT, SFO, JFK. I am a Hunter lad, and feel NTL has a future. It has it all, beaches, vineyards, beautiful scenery, affordable housing, it has to go ahead.

[Nassensteins Monster]

The Gold Coast business group is utterly stuffed Monster, in fact the Goldie is stuffed. Right now they need as many tourists that they can get, regardless of what flight they come in on. The amount of people using J class on QF did not warrant them staying. The Goldie is not a commercial or industrial city, its basically tourism that keeps it going. Whilst I agree and would like to see QF keep a base there, it does not warrant it. The Goldie is really suffering with the downturn, a lot of jobs lost, a lot of small business's are really struggling, and its one angry town.

What about the other 6 years?

PS I agree about NTL. It's going places. If I wasn't about to be made redundant I'd consider buying a nice little unit up there.

[Going Boeing]

Teresa, the RAAF has had a gutful of the way the civil flights are causing disruption to military flying ops at RAAF Base Williamtown. The "nice guy" move by the RAAF to allow a small amount of civilian flights to operate through the RAAF airfield has been repaid by incessant demands for more access. The disruption that is currently being experienced has resulted in a firm decision not to allow any further increase in flights and there may even be a reduction in civilian flights. A close watch is also being kept on operations at the Townsville and Darwin bases.

Basically, if the demand is there for a high frequency of flights into Newcastle, they'll have to build their own airport.

Apologies for the thread drift.

[Jack Ranga]

Theresa, Got it :ok:

Anywhere north of the Murray is ok in my books :E

[fl610]

There is no life south of the Tweed! :}

[teresa green]

Boeing you could say the same for CBR. While I feel sympathy for the RAAF, the fact is the money is coming out of the Hunter with the mines increasing and play a major part of Australia's present wealth. And NTL is responding, it can only be a good thing for the countries civil aviation, and if it is at the expense of the RAAF, than the govt of the day is going to go for the money every time. I know we are off topic here, but what happens with airports and this countries wealth, is vital to aviation.

[waren9]

but what happens with airports and this countries wealth, is vital to aviation


but what happens with airports and aviation, is vital to this countrys' wealth.

There. Fixed it for ya.

[teresa green]

Thankyou Waren, must be time for some new glasses, or you could put it down to a state of shock, as my super is now in another spiral dive!:{

[QF22]

I hadnt seen that before either, excellent reading.
And all the other clowns on here can talk about is who lives North or South of who cares ! ! !

[wrongwayaround]

Great reading EWP, thank you
It begs the question, is the demise of Qantas being engineered or is it all a big mistake. ??

[SpannerTwister]

...It begs the question, is the demise of Qantas being engineered or is it all a big mistake. ??

Me...Personally.....

I'm not such a fan of "conspiracy theories", I honestly think the management policy is one of...... "Running around and vainly attempting to put out bushfires when they are raging out of control and have consumed 100,000 hectares of land, 20,000 head of stock and a small town" as opposed to the....... "Plan for, set fire breaks, ensure Rural Fire Service is well resourced and diligently watch for the first signs of smoke" policy.

ST

[Bahama Breeze]

We all know that once Qantasia is up and running, fares will be set quite comparably to our Asian counterparts.

With the amount of capital QF is sitting on, I expect they will be willing to severely slash the fare prices (initially at least) to get bums on seats, and they can afford to do that for as long as they like, until "This has been a great success for the Qantas Group" -- Bruce Buchanan, Qantas CEO, 2012 (I hope I'm wrong).

I'm going to go and fly in the sandpit. At least over there, there's only ONE thing inevitable in life: just death!


-- Bahama Breeze.

[TIMA9X]

The lead story,
Jetstar's executive base moves closer to an Asian expansion

JETSTAR is considering shifting some of its senior management from Melbourne to an Asian centre - most likely Hong Kong - as it seeks to tap fast-growing markets in China and other parts of the region.
Moving the executives overseas would be to ramp up the Qantas subsidiary's expansion in north Asia. But it is certain to provoke a backlash from unions fighting for staff employed in offshore units to be covered by the same conditions as colleagues in Australia.

Singapore has been seen as a likely location for some of Jetstar's executive team because its affiliate, Jetstar Asia, is already there. But sources say Hong Kong is a ''more sensible'' location given it is geographically at the heart of Asia and on the doorstep of mainland China.


Sources also did not rule out Macau or the Philippines as sites for a Jetstar base.

However, Jetstar would have to structure a relocation of executives to Asia in such a way as to get around the Air Navigation Act, which requires the airline to have its operational base and head office in Australia in order to be designated as an Australian international carrier.

It is understood Jetstar Group's chief executive, Bruce Buchanan would move to Asia, while David Hall would maintain control of the Australian and New Zealand operations from Melbourne.

Although there were potential tax benefits, sources said the primary rationale was the ''good old-fashioned principle of being close to your customers'' in Asia where long-term traffic growth was expected.

Yesterday a Jetstar spokeswoman said it would ''always be an Australian-based airline'' and it did not have plans to move its head office as ''we have management based in Asia''.

Jetstar has recently talked up its interest in expanding its presence in north Asia, including Japan where it has discussed setting up a domestic carrier with Japan Airlines.

Read more: Jetstar's executive base moves closer to an Asian expansion (http://www.smh.com.au/business/jetstars-executive-base-moves-closer-to-an-asian-expansion-20110810-1imwy.html#ixzz1UdiJrNu8)



(http://www.smh.com.au/business/jetstars-executive-base-moves-closer-to-an-asian-expansion-20110810-1imwy.html#ixzz1UdhSdURV)



The follow up story, same day, 11th Aug smh business section.

Qantas offshoot could cost $30m (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-offshoot-could-cost-30m-20110810-1imwz.html)QANTAS faces start-up costs of at least $30 million from launching a premium airline in Asia along with writedowns on the value of its 747 jumbo fleet, due to the expected axing of loss-making international routes.

With a strategic review of the company's international business to be unveiled in two weeks, Macquarie Equities analysts have emphasised that management will need to demonstrate the airline can ''compete effectively'' against rivals such as Singapore Airlines for passengers in Asia.

''Merely a high-level statement of intent … is unlikely to generate any positive re-rating near term,'' they said. ''Merely carving out a presence [in Asia] will not guarantee returns in excess of capital.''

Analysts said establishing a premium airline - based in Singapore or Kuala Lumpur - was likely to lead to redundancies in Australia.

As part of the review, Qantas is expected to axe some loss-making international routes, including services between New York and Los Angeles, as well as those to Buenos Aires in Argentina. Should the latter be axed, Qantas is expected to form a closer alliance with Chilean airline LAN to help plug the gap.

Qantas is also likely to alter timing and frequency of flights to Asian destinations to better suit business travellers who want to fly in the region.
Macquarie's analysts said Qantas was likely to write down the value of its wide-body aircraft fleet in the event that it grounds some of its 747 jumbos as loss-making routes were axed.

The strategic review will overshadow its full-year result on August 24.
Macquarie Equities is forecasting Qantas to post a pre-tax profit of $507 million for the year, at the lower end of the company's guidance of between $500 million and $550 million. The analysts do not expect the airline to resume dividend payments this financial year.

Shares in Qantas dropped 2 per cent to $1.57 yesterday, as the ban on Tiger Airways flying in Australia was lifted. my bold


I believe the start up costs will be more than $30 million. Who's paying for what?

[Charlie Horse]

Instead of all you Qantas pilots whining about Jetstar and waisting your union fees on expensive advertising campaigns and bill boards, you need to get smart and work out how to do your part to make Qantas more efficient. The whole company is ridiculously inefficient. You should team up with the other unions and work this stuff out. I was on holiday in Sydney recently and overheard some Qantas managers talking in a cafe. They were saying the pay and conditions are not so much the problem but the inefficiencies in the company like how 3 engineers/groundies are required to push back an aircraft when other airlines are using 1 with a power push. There were many more examples. Anyway get smart and help improve Qantas performance, it may mean some job losses? But get efficient then your airline will grow and need more staff eventually. And you will keep your conditions as well. From the outside looking in, Qantas is over staffed and inefficient, some of this is managements problem, but it is also the staffs problem. Sort your **** out now and help take Qantas into the future, you will keep your conditions with this attitude. And also tell your unions to stop crapping on about how great Qantas pilots are, your not the only ones who no how to fly! Jeeepers it comes across real bad! And the company must remove the JT safety brief immediately!!!!! Good luck

[my oleo is extended]

Instead of all you Qantas pilots whining about Jetstar and waisting your union fees on expensive advertising campaigns and bill boards, you need to get smart and work out how to do your part to make Qantas more efficient. The whole company is ridiculously inefficient. You should team up with the other unions and work this stuff out. I was on holiday in Sydney recently and overheard some Qantas managers talking in a cafe. They were saying the pay and conditions are not so much the problem but the inefficiencies in the company like how 3 engineers/groundies are required to push back an aircraft when other airlines are using 1 with a power push. There were many more examples. Anyway get smart and help improve Qantas performance, it may mean some job losses? But get efficient then your airline will grow and need more staff eventually. And you will keep your conditions as well. From the outside looking in, Qantas is over staffed and inefficient, some of this is managements problem, but it is also the staffs problem. Sort your **** out now and help take Qantas into the future, you will keep your conditions with this attitude. And also tell your unions to stop crapping on about how great Qantas pilots are, your not the only ones who no how to fly! Jeeepers it comes across real bad! And the company must remove the JT safety brief immediately!!!!! Good luck Ken B, is that you ??

[Sunfish]

CH:

Instead of all you Qantas pilots whining about Jetstar and waisting your union fees on expensive advertising campaigns and bill boards, you need to get smart and work out how to do your part to make Qantas more efficient. The whole company is ridiculously inefficient. You should team up with the other unions and work this stuff out. I was on holiday in Sydney recently and overheard some Qantas managers talking in a cafe. They were saying the pay and conditions are not so much the problem but the inefficiencies in the company like how 3 engineers/groundies are required to push back an aircraft when other airlines are using 1 with a power push. There were many more examples. Anyway get smart and help improve Qantas performance, it may mean some job losses? But get efficient then your airline will grow and need more staff eventually. And you will keep your conditions as well. From the outside looking in, Qantas is over staffed and inefficient, some of this is managements problem, but it is also the staffs problem. Sort your **** out now and help take Qantas into the future, you will keep your conditions with this attitude. And also tell your unions to stop crapping on about how great Qantas pilots are, your not the only ones who no how to fly! Jeeepers it comes across real bad! And the company must remove the JT safety brief immediately!!!!! Good luck

Watch the managers run for cover after a fully loaded aircraft loses a wingtip thanks to non standard clearances between bays and only one person watching the push back.

To put it another way, wing tips are sacrificial, but extremely expensive. "Incidents" are not unknown.

Then count the cost of the missing wingtip walkers.

[27/09]

Sunny,

Most of what you write is very intelligent stuff and right on the money however let's look at these two statements.

how 3 engineers/groundies are required to push back an aircraft when other airlines are using 1 with a power push.

Watch the managers run for cover after a fully loaded aircraft loses a wingtip thanks to non standard clearances between bays and only one person watching the push back.

Are these other airlines losing wingtips?

[27/09]

Charlie Horse

I think you're close to the mark, however I fear your comments will fall on deaf ears, and even if people on here agreed with you, I'm not sure the Qantas management really want to engage with the staff to work through the various issues.

[Lookleft]

The problem is not that the unions don't want to be flexible, remember that after Sept 11 QF pilots agreed to a wage freeze to help the company. Its the executives who are pushing the ideology that unions are there to rubber stamp whatever the company decree.

[QF22]

Charlie Horse
I dont you think will find a power push to pushback a fully laden 744 or A380 or even a 767 for that matter.
And its 2 engineers on a pushback not 3, and thats for safety reasons.
How much does a power push cost anyway, we already have tugs and towbars.
Oh by the way, i work overseas in Asia, and not one power push to be seen, and guess what 2 technicians for every pushback with a tug and towbar.
And yes there is a well known incident in Sydney when the bag chucker got the wrong remote for his Ppush and couldnt figure out why he couldnt push his plane ???
Meanwhile the plane on the next bay which wasnt ready for pushback had a power push on it with smoking tyres, trying to push back a plane with the brakes on! Doh !
If it aint broke !

[hotnhigh]

Charlie Horse,
you have not listed one item where the pilots are inefficient. Same old line bandied around but no substance. Identify the inefficiency and then we can form a solution.
Rosters can be built to fly 900 hours a year. Where is that inefficient?
The pilots have agreed to negotiate extensions to this limit. Inefficient flight planning system buried somewhere in the 1970s, inefficient use of pilots with the use of blank line holders. All controlled by the company, not the pilots.
I have worked with other operators overseas and none of the companies (qf)problems will be addressed by offshoring or reducing pilots wage costs as such. Walk around hq and ask yourself what the hell do all the suits do?
I mean seriously this is where the problem is for qf. The support(?) staff and associated costs aligned with these groups are where there needs to be a radical overhaul. Its got nothing to do with the 900 hours a year pilots may fly and their (the pilots) costs.

[my oleo is extended]

Instead of all you Qantas pilots whining about Jetstar and waisting your union fees on expensive advertising campaigns and bill boards, you need to get smart and work out how to do your part to make Qantas more efficient. Every day a QF pilot signs on he/she is looking at ways to operate safely and cost effectively, you horses ass. A qualified, smart and effective pilot does save the company money and contributes to making the company profitable each and every day. If only the brain dead management could ascertain this.
The whole company is ridiculously inefficient. You should team up with the other unions and work this stuff out. Not every part of the organisation is inefficient. It is the accountable managers that are pulling the place downwards.
But you need to look behind the scenes s I was on holiday in Sydney recently and overheard some Qantas managers talking in a cafe. They were saying the pay and conditions are not so much the problem but the inefficiencies in the company like how 3 engineers/groundies are required to push back an aircraft when other airlines are using 1 with a power push Another inaccurate statement. PPU's are not used to push QF aircraft. They push JQ aircraft (A320) but not QF. QF use (predominately) 1 Engineer and 1 rampie to do the pushback. Sometimes 1 or 2 wingwalkers are utilised for safety reasons depending on the bay allocation/infrastructure/aircraft type/size/proximity to blast walls, terminals and other aircraft/lighting and other factors. This is done not out of inefficiency but solely based on safety reasons. The day the airline removes these safety mitigation processes is the day you will end up with regular occurences such as what occur in LAX.
From the outside looking in, Qantas is over staffed and inefficient, Exactly my point. You are on the outside looking in, and hence are not in any position to accurately point a finger at any specific area that may or may not be operating effectively.
And also tell your unions to stop crapping on about how great Qantas pilots are, your not the only ones who no how to fly! I am not sure what planet you live on. The Unions 'crap on' about how good the pilots are because it is an industry regarded fact that QF does have some of the best pilots in the world. QF pilots and engineers have been a major contributing factor in the reason why QF held the worlds most enviable safety record. No QF pilot is naieve to the fact that other airlines also have skilled pilots, but it is not just the Unions promoting the sound reputation of QF pilots, pilots from other global airlines often agree with the Union sentiments, and so do the majority of the 22 million people residing in Australia. You won't find that level of support in a lot of other countries.

[Nassensteins Monster]

You should team up with the other unions and work this stuff out.

We have, and we are. But what do you do when management have an agenda, an opinion that they know best, an utter disregard for their staff... and WILL NOT LISTEN!


There were many more examples. Anyway get smart and help improve Qantas performance, it may mean some job losses? But get efficient then your airline will grow and need more staff eventually.

We the frontline staff have very little control over the creation of ridiculously inefficient company policies and procedures. We see the inefficiencies every day. We inform our lower management every day. They are just as frustrated as we are at the ridiculously inefficient bureaucracy of the QF system of management, procurement, decision-making etc etc. Lower management have to somehow balance responding to over 200 emails a day - many of them irrelevant, attending meetings of up to 2 hours a day discussing the previous days cluster-fcuks, fighting with their management to get the simplest thing done and adequately responding to the genuine concerns of their staff. Someone needs to go through Bullsh!t Towers like a dose of salts. I'm sure there are massive efficiencies to be found among the Empire of the Seat-Warmers.

From the outside looking in, Qantas is over staffed and inefficient, some of this is managements problem,

I totally agree. May I add nepotistic, corrupt, narcissistic, short-sighted, incompetent? These are problems of THEIR creation.

but it is also the staffs problem.

Not of our making! Yes, the unions, staff and management could come together in a genuine, respectful forum where dialogue is encouraged, differing opinions welcomed, action points are agreed, and actions taken. But current management operates from a "Big Brother Knows Best" mindset, issuing decrees from on high with little thought, understanding or care for long-term consequences. If we were LISTENED TO OCCASIONALLY, our concerns and suggestions genuinely taken on board and acted upon, our actions toward the goal of improved efficiency recognised and rewarded, QF would be a power to be reckoned with.

But instead we're considered kamikaze rogues making outrageous claims from Cloud Cuckoo Land.

The major problem is exceptionalism is ignored, mediocrity is rewarded, and incompetence is nurtured.

[Beer Baron]

Charlie Horse, you are either deluded or naive in the extreme. The idea that by bowing to the company's desires and making Qantas even more profitable that it will improve our situation and protect our jobs is garbage.

Look at what happened at Jetstar. Their pilots were flying on an incredibly efficient EBA, supposedly making the company mountains of money.
Did that protect the employees and secure their future?? NO.
Jetstar management decided to put all future pilots on the legal bare minimum salary for an airline pilot. But that was not bad enough, you were only employed part-time and you had to take your endorsement cost out of your pay.

So the reward for being a highly efficient pilot making a fantastic return on capital for the "fastest growing airline in the world" is......

Get paid less than the absolute minimum pay as set out in law. Wow, what a great incentive to improve efficiency.


Fortunately the Jetstar pilots united together and said enough is enough, pushed back against the company and won.

Qantas does not reward efficiency, it will take the money and divide it amongst the management bonuses.

[Higs]

My oleo said "it's an Industry fact that QF Pilots are some of the best in the world"..... Sure QF have some good operators, but most of the industry overseas regard QF pilots as some of the most "up yourselves" pilots in the world.
Your statements go to supporting this perception.

[Keg]

For the last 40 years, for every EBA, QF management have 'signed off' on the deal without the QF pilots once threatening or resorting to any sort of industrial action. So now, given the talk that the pilots (and others) are so inefficient, should those past managers be handing back their bonuses? Dixon was at the helm for EBA 4, 5 and 6 and pocketed huge savings. If we're 'inefficient' then Dixon is complicit in the mess and therefore incompetent for agreeing to such an inefficient workplace.

So which is it? Are the unions inefficient and therefore the management incompetent? Or are the management incompetent for not agreeing to the changes that have been suggested by the line workers over the years?

[33 Disengage]

I was on holiday in Sydney recently and overheard some Qantas managers talking in a cafe. What a load of crap!!!

Did they have a sign on their back saying "Qantas Manager"?

You just happened to overhear a long conversation, spoken out loud, in a cafe, by people that you know to be Qantas Managers, that aligned with your views about practices that have never existed in the 20 years that I have been involved with RPT aviation. Get real!

[framer]

So which is it? Are the unions inefficient and therefore the management incompetent? Or are the management incompetent for not agreeing to the changes that have been suggested by the line workers over the years?
Personally I think the main problem lies with management and their unwillingness to deviate from a particular agenda.
But, the truth/reality normally lies somewhere in between regardless of whether you're hearing two different stories about a fender-bender on High Street or two different stories about the demise of a good airline.
It is commonly thought in other countries that Australian Unions are fairly militant when compared with other countries. This has been beneficial for many Australian employees over the last few decades, it has been a constant battle for employers. Employees have built up great conditions with large and complex contracts that get (on average) better each year. While the labour pool was essentially Australian and the country was doing well, no problem for the Employee. Now that the labour pool is legally not restricted to Australia, the Employers (read fat-cats) see an opportunity to win a few battles and maybe even the war after decades of feeling agrieved. Some of them most likely feel personally agrieved.
Deregulation of the industry seems like an oportunity to them in this particular regard (in others it presents problems).
The long haul union is continuing to fight for new and uncontested ground out of habit. They need to take heart in the fact that they have established excellet strong-holds over the years and retreat to them. Once they have re-grouped, plan to defend their position (ie job security).
The fight for pay increases and travel benefits to match middle management etc is the fight for new ground. Leave it. You'l need all your firepower amassed in one place to avoid losing the war (job security).
If you don't drop every single claim except this one, the war may be over.
In my opinion of course.
Framer

[Captain Dart]

I second Higs. QANTAS are often referred to as the 'sky gods' by other Aussie pilots who very competently operate heavy metal in and out of Australia. By all means take a stand (better late than never after 'that year'), but be careful with the self-promotion; too much can have the opposite effect.

[ejectx3]

Yeah you others are all ok...but....:we are just born this way...

rolleyes: :p

[AnQrKa]

the biggest contributer to flight safety at QF is the exposure the crews get to sitting in their seat/position/type for decades before becoming captain as a result of slow growth.

If QF were cranking out skippers in 2-3 years like some carriers in the region they would quickly find they are not gods and the training system is not as good as they think it is.

Slow progression is a life saver in legacy carriers.

[1a sound asleep]

AnQrKa - Cant agree more with you. I made a prediction 10 years ago about safety in some fast growth Asian airlines and I still fear some very nasty events with such a small talent pool. But then of course these new planes fly themselves and the computers are there to catch the mistakes, right AJ?:ugh:

How quickly people forget accidents like the SQ 744 fatalities at TPE:oh: RIP

[fl610]

Posted before, but worth another read.

I am an Army of One (or 2, or 300, ...)

I am an army of One - A Captain in the Continental Airlines army.
For years I was a loyal soldier in Gordon's army. Now I fight my own war.
I used to feel valued and respected. Now I know I am mere fodder.
They (CAL) used to exhibit labor leadership. Now they exploit legal loopholes.
They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum.
I am an army of One.

I used to save CAL a thousand pounds of fuel per leg; finding the best FL, getting direct routing, throttling back when on-time was made, skimping during ground ops, adjusting for winds, being smart and giving the company every effort I could conjure. Now, it's "burn baby, burn".
I used to call maintenance while airborne, so the part would be ready at the gate. Now, they'll find the write-up when they look in the book.
I used to try to fix problems in the system, now I sit and watch as the miscues pile up.
I used to fly sick. Now I use my sick days, on short notice, on the worst day of the month.
I am an army of One.

I used to start the APU at the last possible moment. Now my customers enjoy extreme comfort.
I used to let the price of fuel at out-stations affect my fuel orders. I still do.
I used to cover mistakes by operations. Now I watch them unfold.
I used to hustle to ensure an on-time arrival, to make us the best. Now I do it for the rampers and agents who need the bonus money….but this too may change.
I used to call dispatch for rerouting, to head off ground delays for bad weather. Now I collect overs, number 35 in line for takeoff.

I am on a new mission - to demonstrate that misguided leadership of indifference and disrespect has a cost. It's about character, not contracts. It's about leading by taking care of your people instead of leadership by bean counters (an oxymoron). With acts of omission, not commission, I am a one-man wrecking crew - an army of One. My mission used to be to make CAL rich. Now it's to make CAL pay.

When they furlough more pilots than the rest, pilots that cost them 60 cents on the dollar - I will make them pay.
When they under-staff bases and over-work reserves to keep pilots downgraded, down-flowed, or downtrodden - I will make them pay.
When over-booked customers are denied boarding system wide, while jets are parked in the desert - I will make them pay.
When they force pilots, who have waited 12 years to become captains, to be FOs again - I will make them pay.
When they ask CAL pilots to show leadership at Express, and then deny them longevity - I will make them pay.
When they recall F/As for the summer, just to furlough them again in the fall like migrant workers - I will make them pay.
When they constantly violate the letter and spirit of our contract - a contract that's a bargain by any measure, and force us to fight lengthy grievances - I will make them pay.

My negotiating committee speaks for me, but I act on my own. I am a walking nightmare to the bean counters that made me. Are you listening? This mercenary has a lot of years left with this company; how long can you afford to keep me bitter? I'm not looking for clauses in a contract, I'm looking for a culture of commitment and caring. When I see it, I'll be a soldier for CAL again. Until then, I am an Army of One…And I'm not alone! :ok:

[DutchRoll]

My oleo said "it's an Industry fact that QF Pilots are some of the best in the world"..... Sure QF have some good operators, but most of the industry overseas regard QF pilots as some of the most "up yourselves" pilots in the world. Your statements go to supporting this perception.

In the world? You've obviously never been to any international airshows and had a chat to the pilots! ;)

Also, in his defence, he said "some of". That doesn't exclude everyone else. :)

[hotnhigh]

Bruce not happy with moving. And perhaps a pay cut to go with it.:ok:
Jetstar denies reports it plans to move HQ from Melbourne to Asia | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/jetstar-denies-reports-it-plans-to-move-hq-from-melbourne-to-asia/story-e6frfq80-1226113575497)

[Muff Hunter]

How ironic:D:D

The maggot who forced moved JQ pilots away from their families may be forced on the next boat to china!!!

Bravo I say......and sooner the better

Oz aviation would be a better place without human garbage like this around...now F OFF BRUCE:mad:

[skybed]

CX just ordered another 12 B777 and
SQ another 8 B777's.

the geniuses in QF keep their heads in the sand:ugh:

[The Kelpie]

'give me some brown nose comments on the QF Facebook page and I will give you the chance of a shot in the QF A380 simulator'

What next?

Well, getting entrants to post on the QF Facebook page how they absolutely love traveling with QANTAS with the most complimentary testimonials is one way of improving your social media standing. Alan must have received word from his 'social media analysts' that it was all going pear shaped.

Wait for it, Alans announcement on the 24th will include the comment that customers love the product and that they have been receiving superb feedback via social media!!

No Alan, this is not genuine feedback it is basically a contrived scheme to deliberately obtain some positive social media commentary as you are obviously unable to do it based on the current product offering alone!!

Wouldn't it be good if people tried not to win the sim and started posting negative comments!

As much as a shot on the 380 sim is on my 'bucket list' I will not lower myself to your level to do it!!

More to Follow

The kelpie

Ps. Does anyone think that jetstar's move to base 'loose cannon' and some other jetstar top execs in hong kong has anything to do with qantasia? Today jetstar Asia's base, tomorrow qantasia head office? Seems suspicious to me that loose Bruce would move to hong kong. Maybe he will be announced on the 24th of August as qantas's 'man in asia' an possible indicator that he is being groomed to be Alan Joyce's successor or at the very least equal!

Well this is a Rumour network!!

[fl610]

Hey Kelpie, loose bruce can never be alan's equal......he is too tall. :}

[ejectx3]

Can we send aj, bb, the entire board and lc off to Asia to play world domination so we can lock the door as they all leave; and get back to building a great Australian airline again?

[WorthWhat]

You can Ejectx3.

Simply come up with a business plan that includes demerging Jetstar & Qantas and sell it to QAN's long suffering shareholders.

If what you propose is more profitable and less risky than what's going down right now, expect your backers would make quite a tidy profit

Hmmm!

[What The]

QANTAS will never sell Jetstar.

In order to do so they would have to issue a prospectus. To complete a prospectus they would have to include financial forecasts and open your business to scrutiny by potential investors.

When a significant portion of your costs are paid for by the big brother, completing the prospectus is impossible unless you lie.

If you lie in a prospectus you go to jail.

QANTAS will never sell Jetstar.

[WorthWhat]

Well that’s what some people said about TABCORP & Fosters right up to when Gaming was separated from Racing and Beer from Wine.

At the end of the day, it’s all about what business model produces the best risk/return ratio for shareholders who are ambivalent about whether their investment is in the Qantas Group or in an equivalent number of Qantas & Jetstar shares.

[FlareArmed]

Jet* is not an airline as such: it's a staffing company like JetConnect. It's role is to provide staff, at lower rates, to operate Qantas owned assets. I doubt there would be any assets to sell if it was sold off. The different colour scheme for those particular Qantas assets are a smoke-screen to hide the true nature of the company.

[Animalclub]

Simply come up with a business plan that includes demerging Jetstar & Qantas and sell it to QAN's long suffering shareholders.

Nah... go the other way... merge Jetstar with QANTAS and add another class to the aircraft - P/J/Y/"Jetstar Class".

It'll solve all the hassles... no wage differentials... shouldn't be any redundencies... better utilisation of pilots and other staff... enough aircraft to reopen maintenance shops... no bitter rivalry twixt Jetstar and QANTAS... lose one of the GMs or both... everyone happy!!!

It was a nice dream!!!!

[apache]

it is a pity that QF and JQ captains cannot refuse to carry AJ, BB and LC.... under the guise of "serious threat to the safety of the flight".

[Keg]

I don't think JQ captains will ever have to worry about Bruce flying with them if QF also fly the route. He'll be firmly ensconced in 1A on QF.

[IsDon]

QANTAS will never sell Jetstar.

What rot!

Plan A of the APA bid, had it succeeded, was to sell anything of perceived value. JQ was top of the list.

Which begs the question; why is QF management continuing to hide the operating costs of JQ

Because selling JQ is still the plan when APA2 happens.

[BigGun]

I don't think JQ captains will ever have to worry about Bruce flying with them if QF also fly the route. He'll be firmly ensconced in 1A on QF.

It was 1JK or what ever the left side seats were on the 2 class config the other week :P

[Zapatas Blood]

“I am an Army of One (or 2, or 300, ...)”

Great story but it was written way before Gordon’s time and gets re hashed every decade or so.

This article was written by an employee of CO under the stewardship of Lorenzo.

Pilots at CO then were paid the lowest salary of any legacy carrier in the US. The company was constantly hounded by the FAA for maintenance fraud. They had the oldest fleet in the country and pilots spent a lot of time on strike or furlough.

The army of one was posted on a thread about QF. I assume in order to make a comparison.

Is it a fair comparison?

[What The]

Well that’s what some people said about TABCORP & Fosters right up to when Gaming was separated from Racing and Beer from Wine.

At the end of the day, it’s all about what business model produces the best risk/return ratio for shareholders who are ambivalent about whether their investment is in the Qantas Group or in an equivalent number of Qantas & Jetstar shares.



The point you are missing is that there is\was no reason for Tabcorp or Fosters to muddy the financials between the segments and as a result they could be easily valued and split.

Jetstar on the other hand, does exactly the same job as the parent and there is extreme muddying of the cost burden.

The reason is the three pronged strategy:

(1) Fill the 3rd carrier gap in the market,
(2) Attack Virgin from the bottom,
(3) Break the unions in Qantas.

You can make the financials fit the strategy with a little creative cost allocation. Very interesting to hear about the Singapore situation with regards the allocation of costs and the new paperwork required to be filled out. Problem is, it is just a piece of paper. It doesn't reflect the final allocation of the costs. I am still dubious.


What rot!

Plan A of the APA bid, had it succeeded, was to sell anything of perceived value. JQ was top of the list.

Which begs the question; why is QF management continuing to hide the operating costs of JQ

Because selling JQ is still the plan when APA2 happens.

I think you will find that Frequent Flyer was the top of the list, the Superannuation Scheme was up there and the Airports and Fleet assets were in the mix. I believe JQ was nowhere near the top.

The point you are missing is because of the cross subsidization Jetstar has greatly diminished value without Qantas. In addition, the prospectus issue and having to show where the money comes from causes a bit of a problem.

Qantas will never sell Jetstar.

[fl610]

QUOTE
Is it a fair comparison?

QUOTE
Pilots at CO then were paid the lowest salary of any legacy carrier in the US. The company was constantly hounded by the FAA for maintenance fraud.

G'Day ZB is this not where we are headed? :sad:

Rule by bean counter is the bane of everyone's existence - not just aviation. :ugh:

A Surgeon friend of mine (as well as his colleagues) has been frequently challenged by hospital management over a particular procedure he may have used during emergency surgery - bean counter tells him if he had used a different procedure then he would have saved the company (hospital) X amount of $$$'s. Mate says to bean counter that when he has gained the equivalent qualifications then perhaps he could then make that call. Mate gets written up on his file for having a bad attitude. I don't know about you but if I am in the unfortunate position of needing emergency surgery then I would hope that the surgeon performing the procedure bases his decisions on primarily saving my life and not thinking about how much extra profit he can generate for the hospital.

"GETTING IT RIGHT" - An extract from an article written by the late Gordon Howe. Former RAAF pilot and Superintendent Flight Operation - DCA - Papua New Guinea.

The price of "getting it right" is above any earthly value that can be placed on it. It is what every pilot strives for, because we know what the price of failure will be.

The pilot psyche is essentially one of solidity of character. The only genius required is that of taking pains to "get it right" and when, the pressure rises, to asses all the inputs of a rapidly developing situation, make a decision which had better be right, and cope as the situation unfolds at 500 knots. The weather goes bad and one engine packs up. You must descend because you can't pressurise the cabin on one engine. Power must be increased on the remaining engine which gulps fuel, because of the lower altitude. The destination advises that VHF facilities are out of action due to a power failure so an ADF approach is all that's left. The F/O states that the hydraulic fluid level is going down and ATC advises worsening weather.

So the pressure in the cockpit builds up as fast as the hydraulic fluid drains away. The runway is wet - it will have to be a flapless landing after free falling the undercarriage. Aquaplanning is a strong possibility and the emergency braking system is about to get some exercise. Pray that holding will not be required because checking time to ETA against consumption shows that fuel will be a scarce commodity overhead the runway and the first landing attempt must be right. Now is the time to call in a bus driver, A BEAN COUNTER or someone with 10 hours in a Chimpmunk and all will be well. - No prizes for guessing who this last sentence was aimed at! (My bolding)

I for one certainly won't deny that there are many inefficiencies at the rat, but the radical bean counter surgery being performed can only end in disaster. The unfortunate thing is that the only thing that will get these so called managers attention are smoking holes in the ground. :(

Cheers,

fl610.

[breakfastburrito]

Why we want Qantas pilots in the cockpit
August 14, 2011
OPINION

The national carrier needs to be careful in its pay battle with staff.

AS QANTAS and its pilots prepare to fly into some unprecedented industrial turbulence, the airline's high-profile ambassador, John Travolta (pictured below), has landed with a thud. Anyone who has flown with the national carrier in the past few months has had to endure Travolta's rather hokey introduction to the air safety video.


I don't know whose idea it was to feature Travolta, but I don't think they should win any in-house innovation awards. Saturday Night Fever it isn't, although Travolta does deliver one killer line: ''There's no one I'd rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot.''


The actor had articulated the argument at the heart of the looming industrial battle: if you pay to fly on a Qantas plane, shouldn't the people in the cockpit be Qantas pilots? Not surprisingly, the video has been withdrawn.


One of the key demands by the airline's 1650 long-distance pilots is that any flight with the letters QF in front of it has to be flown by a Qantas person. Airline management is resisting. Like many Australians, I try to support Qantas, usually paying above the odds because a) it's my airline and b) over the years they haven't failed to get me or anyone else to a destination in one piece.


But, gee, it's getting harder. Not only is the disparity between Qantas fares and those of its competitors getting bigger, the airline's customer service is lamentable. Just this week I cancelled a flight because of illness and was told that while I could not have my money back, I would receive a travel credit that I could use in the next 12 months - provided I paid $55.


Later this month, Qantas chief Alan Joyce, who's about as popular as a mid-air hijacker with some of his flyers, will unveil his grand vision for the future of the airline's international operation. Pilots fear that Joyce will establish a Qantas Asia operation based in, say, Hong Kong or Singapore, and that it will lead to compromised safety. Pilots fear the airline will start employing people who would not normally get near a Qantas cockpit. The airline says it has to try new lower-cost approaches or go bust.


There is no doubt that the federal government's open-skies policy has contributed to Qantas's woes. In the days of highly restricted competition it was much easier for the Flying Kangaroo to make a buck on international routes. Now it's bleeding money. So clearly, Qantas management has to identify savings. Hiring pilots, engineers and cabin crews overseas where labour costs are lower would be a good start.


Or would it? When I analyse my own flying habits, I realise that I'm basically paying inflated Qantas fares for the expertise of its staff. It's certainly not because of the planes, many of which are ageing. If management muck around too much with that expertise they could lose me and thousands of others for good. I'm not interested in Qantas becoming another Jetstar.


As the public relations war hots up in coming weeks, the airline will no doubt try to paint the pilots as greedy and overpaid. They will point out that some earn $350,000-plus. But they will need to be careful. For instance, had I been a passenger on QF32 when it was saved over Indonesia by the extraordinary skills of Qantas pilots, I'd say they earn every cent. So demonising these people won't work.


Pilots have authorised a range of industrial action, including two-day stoppages. At the moment, they have restricted their industrial campaign to a short cockpit announcement that says: ''We are proud of our profession and our airline, and trust you will support us in keeping Qantas pilots in Qantas aircraft and ensuring our great iconic airline remains uniquely Australian.'' It's their first industrial action in 45 years. Very deftly, pilots have turned their new agreement into an argument about safety. They only want a relatively paltry 2.5 per cent pay increase.


The announcements are a sad comment on the deterioration in the relationship between Qantas and its most valuable asset - its people.


But it was another, unscripted announcement that really brought it home to me. In May this year, our Qantas pilot apologised for the delay in opening the doors. ''I'm sorry for the delay, but in their wisdom, Qantas has rostered on only one person today to look after air bridges, so we all have to wait.''


Over years of flying with the ''spirit of Australia'' I have grown used to pilots proudly embracing their airline. But this indicated to me that at Qantas, what used to be Us has clearly become Them.


Bruce Guthrie is a former editor of The Age, The Sunday Age and Herald Sun. Twitter: @brucerguthrie
SMH (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/why-we-want-qantas-pilots-in-the-cockpit-20110813-1is32.html)

[WorthWhat]

Originally Posted by What The
Qantas will never sell Jetstar.....The prospectus issue and having to show where the money comes from causes a bit of a problem.
Perhaps, but only if Jetstar is spun off as a public offering. Believe an off market sale to another airline is a different matter.
Ejectx3 asked : Can we....get back to building a great Australian airline again? And I say again, come up with a business plan that includes demerging Jetstar & Qantas and sell it to QAN's long suffering shareholders.

That said, personally I like Animal's idea of - (Adding another class to the aircraft).

Fits well with demerging Jetstar & Qantas.

[griffin one]

JET*
All 787 maintenance carried out by J*
All Honolulu services.
SFO re-instated using J*
LAX-JFK using J*

QFASIA
Currently being instigated by Dixon and Greig
Remaining 744,s maintained and crewed out of Singapore
QF feeder flights to Singapore for J*ASIA

QF
Maintains and crews domestic and limited international A330 and A380 fleet.
Maintains and crews limited 767 and 744 fleet until retirement
QF 787 Crewed by QF maintained by J* asia or QF asia
SIO maintenance outsourced
Domestic Cat A licences and Maint on demand

just some of the townsville refuellers rumors circulating:oh:

[Medom]

I'm an independent observer with a keen interest in aviation and i signed up solely to tell you this. I support you guys but I'm telling you now that if you think you're winning this in terms of PR, you're wrong. Judging by the water-cooler like conversations I've started with colleges, friends, mates at the Gym and family, Qantas isn't exactly winning either, but they're definitely starting to.


Qantas swamped with passenger complaints over pilots' gripes

Qantas yesterday confirmed it had been inundated with complaints from passengers about the issue including gripes made on board to cabin crew, through letters, phone calls, emails and social-networking sites such as Twitter.
Pilots are bargaining for a deal including 2.5 per cent wage increases for the next three years, two free international tickets each year upgradeable to business and first class, and use of first class lounges while on duty.Qantas swamped with passenger complaints over pilots' gripes | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/pay-gripes-fire-up-qantas-passengers/story-fn7x8me2-1226114440155)

That is probably about the fifth peice from News Limited in as many weeks that basically cut+pastes strait off of Qantas' email to the journalist without any response from AIPA. In the headline and the first paragraph alone it nails you. As for the comments, wouldn't surprise me if the supporting ones were all from pilots.

You need to accept and counter this crap. Not throw back lame excuses like 'the average person can see through the Qantas spin!'. Well actually, no, the average bogan reader of the HS or Daily Tele can't. They treat every word in that paper as truth.

That opinion piece above in the SMH & Age is good, but chances are it's deep in the opinion section and not near the front where it needs to be.

Keep in mind that Qantas has and always will have closer ties with the Media than you guys because they can tempt them with perks. But you need to fight otherwise the public will soon despise you, how much you earn compared to everyone else who does the exact same job, how much you complain, how you want business class service for free each time you fly, etc. See what I mean? It may not be the truth but it is what people are starting to think (seriously many people are, stop denying this and accept/fight it), and once people do think that, honestly, no-one gives a **** whether or not they sack you all in favour of 200 hour cadets from KL. They'll get them there safe, do it cheaply and wont whinge.

Qantas does and will continue to fight you with exaggerations and lies. SO HIT THEM BACK! Not with lies, but highlight Joyce's failures, get aggressive, highlight what you guys do (QF32?!), highlight how much debt you go through just to learn how to fly, highlight how you have been so loyal to one airline, highlight how if **** hits the fan you've got one chance to get it right, highlight how many lives you have in your hand, etc. Might sound obvious but it just reinforces that point in peoples heads.

AIPA management, seriously, take the front foot, give it your all. Fight this as hard as you can otherwise you're screwed. You've got one shot. Get in touch via twitter, e-mails, etc. to some TV journalists from the COMMERCIAL channels (not the bloody ABC, you want a show that people watch), like 7 & 9 news, the 7pm project, Sunrise, Today, etc. Give them a good story. Give them an exclusive. Get it shown and get the public back on your side.

[Dixons Millions]

Medom, I completely agree with you. This is what I have just sent to the reporter from the HeraldSun regarding his ridiculous commentary re pilots wanting massages and spas etc....prob won't get published tho... and if ok with you I have cut & pasted your concerns to AIPA. I wanna know what they are doing to combat this dire reporting as well...

"Joe Hildebrand. It is quite clear where your allegiance is. Your nose is squarely in the Qantas Chairman's Lounges' trough, with your appalling lack of context & knowledge of the subject you write. You are billed as an "Investigative Journalist". Well, why don't you do some of that? Get the facts Joe. Your sensationalist approach to journalism is only providing comic relief to the public at large despite the "few" uninformed comments above. What we are seeing is the slow motion destruction of one of Australia's most iconic brands. The pilot's dispute has absolutely nothing to do with what you and the Qantas PR machine are purporting. They have even employed John Singleton to further escalate their scare mongering campaign & try and pull the wool over the eyes of the Australian public to hide the real agenda. If you are interested in reporting the facts, the pilot's fiscal claim is 2.5% p.a, and a non negotiable claim that if you purchase a Qantas ticket to fly on a Qantas aircraft, it will be flown by a Qantas pilot. Make no mistake, should the pilots lose this battle with this greedy bonus chasing Qantas Board & Exec's, it will be the end of Qantas & a sad day for Australia."

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Thanks for joining us Medom. I do deal with the press crowd from time to time and agree entirely with your suggestion about getting out there to counter the rubbish Qantas puts it.

Unfortunately AIPA or ALAEA cannot offer the journos Chairmans Lounges or the like and News Ltd do not want to run any story that supports unions. They do not call us before printing and they do not do stories when we contact them (except when it is Virgin, got front page when their wheel fell off). If you had any doubt about who News Ltd support, just look at their latest ad about the carbon tax. It is a full frontal swipe at Gillard and completely biased.

I know the pax are supportive and that's why the pilots are taking the direct path to the people who custom Qf. That article is just another Qantas lie and a lot of people will see through it. I won't buy their papers anymore.

[Lookleft]

Doesn't matter what AIPA do the Murdoch papers are going to continue to pedal their anti-union rubbish. The fact that QF is not having it all their own way suggests that AIPA is getting traction but they simply don't have the network or the budget to take Qantas head on. What they have at the moment is the moral high ground. Unlike Qantas and NewsCorp.

[TIMA9X]

That is probably about the fifth peice from News Limited in as many weeks that basically cut+pastes strait off of Qantas' emailYeah, and don't forget that News Ltd had a lot to do with the demise of Ansett as well, in my view. I stopped buying their papers years ago because of this.

Sounds like the Q media people rang themselves up three thousand times complaining about the pilots PAs then wrote a press release. :E

[DirectAnywhere]

He he he....found this today.

Learn how a Qantas pilot is trained to be the best in the world

http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/mediaRoom/PLANE_SPEAK_GettingToKnowYourQantasPilot.mp3

I know it's a few years old but they might want to delete this one too.:hmm:

[600ft-lb]

What is funny is the press releases that are stretching the truth to say the least.

Qantas swamped with passenger complaints over pilots' gripes | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/pay-gripes-fire-up-qantas-passengers/story-fn7x8me2-1226114440155)

Frequent flyer of Qld Posted at 9:09 PM August 14, 2011 As a platinum flyer I support the pilots in the current dispute. They are the only good thing happening in the business. Grey Posted at 4:21 PM August 14, 2011I for one am not swallowing this spin from the Qantas PR department. Show us the proof of passengers complaining. The Qantas Pilots website is transparent with an open discussion board but tellingly the Qantas PR website is not. Why not Q?This omission speaks volumes about their supposed facts.James Lodge Posted at 2:44 PM August 14, 2011 That is not the feedback the pilots are getting from the passengers. Perhaps before printing the Qantas media release you should contact the other party for a balanced coverage.James Cameron of Sydney Posted at 11:59 AM August 14, 2011When will people realize that this dispute is not about pay?JohnK Posted at 11:30 AM August 14, 2011I think this article should have the title "Qantas swamped with passenger complaints about poor service." This is just Qantas propaganda. I have been on Qantas flights where passengers clapped the pilot's announcement. There seems to be overwhelming support for the pilots. I want a Qantas pilot flying my Qantas plane. I support the pilots in their dispute.
whereas the 'inundation' of complaints on twitter on the last few days at

Twitter (http://twitter.com/#%21/QantasAirways)
has gone something like

LeighLiving (http://twitter.com/#%21/LeighLiving) Leigh Livingstone



@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) Now flights at over $200 more than when I started and error msgs still happening. Poor tactics Qantas. Might go with AirNZ

10 Aug (http://twitter.com/#%21/LeighLiving/status/101249751244210176)
NickJDalton (http://twitter.com/#%21/NickJDalton) Nick



.@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) won't let me do online check in. #rage (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23rage).

10 Aug (http://twitter.com/#%21/NickJDalton/status/101168845078794240)
thebeercellar (http://twitter.com/#%21/thebeercellar) Colin Hession



@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) you guys cancelled a Dublin to London leg of a dublin to Perth flight, what's the story, no notification, what's the story!!

10 Aug (http://twitter.com/#%21/thebeercellar/status/101247680948346880)
LusciousLani (http://twitter.com/#%21/LusciousLani) Luscious Lani @



@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) about your phone lines - why does it take so long to get through to a human? I can never get through in emergencies.

11 Aug (http://twitter.com/#%21/LusciousLani/status/101481704316878849)
Katy_Potaty (http://twitter.com/#%21/Katy_Potaty) Katy Potaty



If you're on a @QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) flight & your pink case doesn't show up at Destination, it's on tarmac at Sydney! twitpic.com/64kglc (http://t.co/0Yj92Os)

12 Aug (http://twitter.com/#%21/Katy_Potaty/status/101793236120637440)
marniehobbs (http://twitter.com/#%21/marniehobbs) Marnie Hobbs



@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) you are a joke! Cancelled flight few hrs frm departure. Can't change online & now on hold over 30min to a 1300 (costing me $)

16 hours ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/marniehobbs/status/102572309478510592)
ETC


I'm looking back over the last week and can't find a single complaint about pilot PA's directed to @QantasAirways


Now @JetstarAirways on the other hand, the latest tweet

choox75 (http://twitter.com/#%21/choox75) james spiropoulos @



@JetstarAirways (http://twitter.com/JetstarAirways) it should be renamed #****star (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23****star)

19 hours ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/choox75/status/102537981860126721)the first of many, many tweets of a similar tone.


So once again, the truth is lost in search of a headline. From where I sit, based upon the opinion of real people that is transparently visible and on the public record, the PR battle is hardly in the corporate court.


Maybe those complaints are from the 'strategy' consultants Bain&Co on their free travel, or maybe their lawyers at Allens Arthur Robinson, or maybe their accountants at KPMG, or maybe their Jetstar flight or cabin crew positioning in Qantas J class to their next port. Maybe it was from a director on one of their many FREE flights they get per year which is an otherwise exorbitant claim by staff not in the corporate level.

Maybe its just something corporate types will never 'get', they don't understand life at the ground level. Like the rich snobs in London wondering why the massively unemployed totally disenfranchised underclass just went bezerk. The fact that statements are released to the media as fact playing an entire country for a bunch of idiots whose thought process is controllable shows what contempt those at the top of the corporate circle jerk/matey matey 'you can be a director on my board and I can be a director on your board' have for the mere plebs who work for them.

The latest QGS offer of ramp staff proves this. "want to work terrible hours which aren't guaranteed with **** pay ? click 'apply now'!"

[73to91]

Hogan must be looking forward to the 24th :ok:

Gulf poised to snap up rich Qantas travellers




ANY moves by Qantas to cut international routes or swap to no-frills Jetstar services will lead to Middle Eastern and Asian airlines swooping on its valuable passengers, Australian aviation dynamo James Hogan, of Etihad Airways, says.

In nine days Qantas is due to announce the outcome of its deepest review of its international services, prompted by anticipated losses of $200 million this year from the division.

The review has fuelled speculation Qantas might axe flights between Los Angeles and New York, with question marks hovering over Buenos Aires, Honolulu and Mumbai, and rumours Jetstar could replace Qantas on some flights to the US mainland and Europe. Speaking to the Herald during a brief visit to promote Australian-Gulf relations, Mr Hogan said the airline he runs, Etihad, would happily fill any voids Qantas creates.

''They [Qantas] don't have the network they had 15 years ago,'' Mr Hogan, a 36-year veteran of the aviation industry, said.

''As Qantas starts restructuring their network, it presents even further opportunities for us to strengthen our foothold in the market.

''As they continue to marginalise their global brand 'Qantas', that represents an opportunity for airlines such as us.

''The Gulf airlines and the Asian carriers out of Australia will have a stronger consumer offering - whether it's leisure or corporate.

''If they [Qantas] do dilute or marginalise their international flying that's a great opportunity for us … and we're happy to fill the gap.''

Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce, will announce its international business restructure on August 24, but the airline yesterday declined to discuss any competitive rivalries.

Etihad Airways is based in Abu Dhabi, the capital of the United Arab Emirates, and competes with the neighbouring colossus of Emirates Airline and the ambitious Qatar Airways, along with other global airlines.

Etihad Airways flies to 72 cities worldwide on a fleet of 61 aircraft.
It contrasts with the Qantas group, with its fleet of about 250 aircraft, which barely has a European presence outside of codeshare agreements with other airlines.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/gulf-poised-to-snap-up-rich-qantas-travellers-20110814-1it1q.html#ixzz1V2nTdYaq (http://www.smh.com.au/business/gulf-poised-to-snap-up-rich-qantas-travellers-20110814-1it1q.html#ixzz1V2nTdYaq)

And the major shareholders will sit back and let this happen :ugh:

[Keg]

QF is lying about social media. I've been reviewing @qantasairways and #qantas for the last few weeks. Our PIA PAs are minuscule in terms of volume of traffic on those tags. I only recall one negative comments. The rest have been positive.

Once again, at the door of the aircraft, lots of positive comments, ZERO negative.

What has been interesting in this whole process is seeing how Qantas continue to lie in their media releases- pay rises, costs to the business, what we're asking for, etc. I'd always been proud of my employer when it came to things like Bali bombings and other assistance at times of need but I'm becoming more and more convinced that the core values at Qantas are based on misinformation, distortion, dissembling and spin. To be frank, the corporate structure no longer appears to share my values for the passenger and for the manner in which we do business. It puts me in a very conflicted position.

[DutchRoll]

I don't think anyone should be surprised at what the grubby little Qantas PR department has been up to. It's only going to get worse.

The important thing is to remain focused. Qantas are desperately trying to deflect attention away from the job claims and their offshore expansion plans. It's the only thing they can do. They know if the media start pressing the hard questions about Asian outsourcing and labour regulations, they've got problems.

[Budfox]

Wow wonder if Mr Hogan gets labelled kamikaze for having such an enthusiastic outlook for the region and opportunities that Qantas pass over.
Here come the big boys lookout :E
If they sense that Qantas is vulnerable to competition then they sure must think 1 star is a joke :D

[Wally Mk2]

This whole story is a circus.

Okay lets say just for a moment we have two leading newspapers both with story headlines reference what's going on in QF.

Story one headline: "QF Pilots claims are bringing down our Iconic famous Airline, QANTAS".( my bolding as it's more dramatic)

Story Two headline: "Qantas is being unfair and not paying us pilots enough"


You go figure it out which headline story will sell the most papers & have the most sympathy/clout with the gen public!

So unless AJ has a change of heart (or a heart at all) then essentially as has been said before famously 'get yr affairs in order'!

Wmk2

[Dropt McGutz]

If they drop Buenos Aries, that will free up a 747ER allowing a daily Dallas too.

[unionist1974]

So let me get this right Fed Sec , The vast majority of you members are employed by Qantas or their subsituute Forstaff ? Yes . Those employed members pay fees to your " Association " who in turn employ you and pay your very generous terms of employment . Yes . So why do have a death wish to destroy this arrangement ? Maybe a seat in Parliament is on your horizon . Yes . Are you really concerned about the future if aviation in Australia . NO . Do you value self interest above all else . Yes. You are not Fair Dinkum MATE .

[Ngineer]

When I analyse my own flying habits, I realise that I'm basically paying inflated Qantas fares for the expertise of its staff. It's certainly not because of the planes, many of which are ageing. If management muck around too much with that expertise they could lose me and thousands of others for good. I'm not interested in Qantas becoming another Jetstar.



This hits the nail on the head.

To keep your business successful, you need to identify what makes the brand and invest in it.

In my opinion management have failed dismally at doing this, instead chosing to re-invent a brand that nobody is interested in.

This situation is out of control and needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

[600ft-lb]

It has been a busy and productive year
at the Qantas Group.
Our strategy is to create two airlines –
Qantas and Jetstar – that are the best in
their classThe PREMIUM product
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5119095806_ae2225dafa.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3222/3159810582_4a76880402.jpg
The LOW COST product
http://www.samchuiphotos.com/Airliners/Category/Cabin/thumbs/SYDD1447.jpg
http://images.theage.com.au/2010/10/26/2008705/Jetstar-Starclass-2-420x0.jpg

Is there any wonder ?

[EWP]

QANTAS has managed to destroy 43% of its brand value in just 2 short years.


In the 7 July issue of BRW it was stated that QANTAS has managed to destroy 43% of its brand value in just 2 short years.

90 years to build a brand, 2 years to destroy 43% of it.

I would love to take credit for the following reply to one of Ben Sandilands blogs. I don't know who wrote it, and I apologize if it has been posted on here before, but I hadn't seen it until today. It provides a very insightful synopsis of how we have found ourselves in this position of fighting for our very existence, and pulls no punches on who is to blame?

Some of you may be aware of the media attention recently coming upon Qantas- especially from it's CEO, Alan Joyce. Joyce came to the Qantas Group to run Jetstar, and had a small stint in Ansett, and a large stint in Ryanair previous to joining Qantas. Joyce has in past few months called Qantas pilots "Recalcitrant","Kamikaze", and "Rogue", as well as accusing them of "Living on cloud cuckoo land". The reason- Qantas pilots are asking to ensure Qantas Pilot jobs remain in Australia, as there is gathering evidence that Qantas wants to move more of its operations offshore. Qantas Engineers are also asking for the same guarantees. So far, Qantas has refused to negotiate at all on these asks from the pilots and engineers. Joyce was the golden haired boy of the previous CEO Geoff Dixon, the man who masterminded the attempted private Equity buyout of Qantas in 2007. Thankfully that did not get through. If it did, Qantas would have defaulted on the debt it was going to be loaded with, and would most certainly not exist anymore. Dixon stood to make $60m out of the deal, and Joyce in excess of $20m.

In the Dixon/Joyce years, decision have been made that have severely damaged the Qantas brand, including forcing passengers onto Jetstar without choice, closing in-house maintenance of engines which has resulted in a 180% increase in engine failures in the past 5 years, and not buying the right aircraft to modernise Qantas and allow route expansion. To add, Qantas has subsided the Jetstar operation from the start including paying for maintenance, payment of landing fees, fuel and terminal charges, and seat subsidies.

As a result, Qantas share prices are below their 1995 issue price of $2.00. Joyce was in Singapore recently for the International Air Transport Association (IATA) conference and blasted the pilots and engineers as being to blame for the tanking share price. He also stated that there would be no more investment in Qantas until it "started to return it's cost of capital". As one commentator put it, this is akin to "not spending any money on your car to make it run until it starts". To put some of this into context and to show how badly Qantas management have stuffed up, here is some quotes from Qantas management and what has subsequently happened:

"Jetstar will not operate more than 15 aircraft" G.Dixon 2004.

It now operates more than 70 aircraft.

"Jetstar will never operate internationally" G Dixon 2004.

It has taken many Qantas routes from its parent company to Hawaii, Japan, Bali and other ports.

"Emirates is not a threat as it is not a growth model" G Dixon 2001.

Emirates now operate more than 60 services per week to Australia and flies to 26 destinations in Europe.

"The B777 is an old technology aircraft" G Dixon 2006.

The B777 could fly 90% of the routes currently flown by the B747 with a 30% reduction in fuel burn and is flown by every major airline in the world.


"There is no money in freight" G Dixon 2004.

Qantas now operates a full freighter B767 aircraft flown by contract pilots as well as full time contracts with Atlas Air Cargo. All the while Qantas pilots get assigned Long Service Leave because of a surplus in pilot numbers due to the outsourcing of flying previously done by Qantas pilots to Jetstar, Atlas cargo, Jetconnect across the Tasman, and Jetstar Asia.

You will find below a succinct, precise, summary of where and why…

Qantas finds itself- losing money and losing market share. This was written as a response to a blog by Ben Sandilands on crikey.com (http://crikey.com/).

Qantas pilots and engineers ask for your support and patience this year while we try to end the rot, keep Australian jobs in Australia and attempt to save a national icon from corporate greed.

Of all the elements a board and a CEO must manage and protect, surely building and protecting the brand of a company must be their number one priority. Clifford came out swinging on the weekend saying the focus of the board and CEO must be, and is, on the share price and return of capital. But it is the brand that drives the share price, not the other way around. Everything else flows from that.

If you followed that logic Jetstar never would have been started and Virgin wouldn't be spending a fortune re-launching and building the brand. If Virgin can do that, why cant Qantas?

Let's look at the facts. This is marketing and business studies 101. Qantas from the inception of the very first brand surveys decades ago consistently and without exception, year in year out, always lead the pack as the NUMBER ONE BRAND in Australia. This was not just in terms of brand recognition but also in relation to the more significant drivers of financial success in the market place; trust and emotional attachment for the brand. The Qantas brand was pure 100%, 24 carat, rolled gold. This was Qantas's number one asset. It still should be bigger than all the aircraft and other tangibles combined. Every airline has plant and equipment, but only Qantas had that number one position, the ultimate in brand power.


After sitting at number one for decades Qantas is no longer even in the top ten. But worse than that here's a report from Readers Digest annual Most Trusted Brands survey way back in 2008. "the iconic flying kangaroo, Qantas, dropped 47 spots in consumer confidence."


You read right. In 2008 Qantas dropped 47 spots. That massive drop in the brand if quantified in dollar terms is so much more than the net worth Jetstar has added to the Qantas group. So what happened? How did the best, most loved, number one brand in
Australia for decade’s crash and burn. So quickly. So badly. There are two main reasons for this. And they have names, the first being Dixon, the other Joyce. The destruction of the brand has zippo to do with the current biffo with the unions.

1/ When Dixon took over as CEO the Qantas brand was still riding high and proud at number one. It was untouchable. He was seen by many as marketing and PR genius. Yet the destruction of the Qantas brand can be traced back through these exact same brand surveys to having> commenced during his tenure. It is no coincidence that this rapid decline coincides EXACTLY with the rise of Jetstar under the Qantas umbrella.


BA when they held seats on the board warned Dixon an in house low cost carrier would cannibalize the parent brand. Dixon thought he knew better.

We all know the story. As soon as Jetstar was launched Qantas ****ed off many local communities with the haste it pulled out of so many key domestic and international markets and forced people who were used to, and wanted full service, onto Jetstar with an appalling lack of service.


Everyone knows Jetstar is Qantas. Each and every time people feel ripped off or mishandled by Jetstar, which is often, the knife is dug deeper and twisted further into what is left of the Qantas brand.

Just ask any of the tens of thousands of passengers forced to fly Jetstar (because Qantas has pulled out) to destinations like the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, Tasmania, Hamilton Island, Bali or Japan.

They don't blame Jetstar, they blame Qantas.

2/ From the day Jetstar was conceived fleet renewal and investment in the mainline product ceased almost completely. While Jetstar got an entirely new fleet of fuel efficient A320/A330 aircraft "full fare" passengers on "full service" Qantas were stuck with clapped out, gas guzzling, dirty and unreliable aircraft. The new Dallas debacle is a perfect example.

As you point out Ben, when Qantas could have, should have been renewing its mainline fleet, such as buying B777's as did all of its main competitors, there was no money or motivation as all the focus and cash were thrown at Jetstar.
Clifford and Joyce had already earmarked the first B787s for Jetstar, meaning Qantas mainline will not be seeing any new aircraft for many years. Just who has been subsidizing who? This only serves to compound the destruction of the brand. Joyce is now the biggest most vocal detractor of Qantas brand, constantly screaming hysterically that long haul is in serious trouble.

What would the books look like if Qantas had, as it should have as the premium brand, a fleet of all new and super efficient aircraft while the budget arm Jetstar was stuck with the old aircraft from the current mainline fleet.

A/ Jetstar would no longer be making money
B/ Qantas mainline would be making money
C/ Qantas would have a product people expect of a full service carrier and it would be growing its market share.
No one at Qantas management either remembers, or understands, these important lessons from history.
The only player who appears to do so is John Borghetti. You can see he 'gets it' by his determination to invest substantially in a full service product, to grow markets such as this morning's tie up with Singapore Airlines, the business and the Virgin brand. He knows where Qantas is vulnerable and it is insightful too that he is branding Virgin Australia as the Australian airline and he is vocal about returning jobs to Australia service his aircraft here.

[framer]

I agree with everything you've said in your last post EWP.(post#180)
On an industrial level I think we are on the same page.
It looks like the mods have deleted your post re 'Bananna eating monkeys flying VH registered aircraft', and also my response to it outlining how the more time I spend away from Australia, the more I notice how prevalent certain attitudes are there. Probably a good thing in order to keep the thread on track. Have a good night.
Framer
Edited to add post number as we posted over each other there.

[framer]

No wonder at all in my mind EWP.
If I was a member of the longhaul union I would be lobbying to get some sort of response going to the misinformation being presented in the mainstream media and I would be terribly frustrated.
Pilots all around the world see where this is headed and support you guys, but you need to make an impression on the public and the pollies this week or it's too late. Just my opinion. I still think it's not too late to make a media splash by dropping every claim except the job security one and taking the small financial hit in order to secure your futures. The media would be forced to look at a very simple argument then and the waters would be much clearer.
Cheers, Framer

[Des Dimona]

Has anyone seen AJ lately ?

[Going Boeing]

Macquarie Link (http://www.macquarie.com.au/dafiles/Internet/mgl/au/apps/retail-newsletter/docs/2011-08/QAN090811e.pdf) :ugh:

[TIMA9X]

PILOTS are being ordered to stop trying to make up time on Qantas flights running significantly late - so the airline can save on fuel costs. In a snub for passengers, the airline has a strict policy of refusing to allow pilots to catch up if they can't land in the 15-minute window that qualifies as being on time.
"If the aircraft is running late and the pilot can't make it there within 15 minutes of the scheduled arrival time then he or she is not permitted to fly faster and burn more fuel," one pilot said.

Forgive me if this has been posted somewhere but to be fair, it is good to see the Herald Sun try to balance their reporting with this Qantas pilots told not to minimise delays | Herald Sun (http://www.pprune.org/Qantas%20pilots%20told%20not%20to%20minimise%20delays%20%7C% 20Herald%20Sun) after publishing this one on the same day, 15/08/11. Qantas swamped with passenger complaints over pilots' gripes | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/pay-gripes-fire-up-qantas-passengers/story-fn7x8me2-1226114440155)

May be the Editor realised a wild cut and paste of a Qantas press release may have been a mistake or this is a good example that Captain Richard Woodward from AIPA getting a good counter story published. At the end of the day both sides 1 all.

[Ngineer]

Macquarie has obviously been briefed by AJ


I read the report, and I found the statement about a possible $150 million adjsutment on 2012 earnings if industrial action commences to be a very interesting remark.

It does make one wonder how some "analysts" research their investments.:sad:

[bobhoover]

We flag the potential for significant one-off start-up costs of at least $30m as well as potential impairment charges on the 747 fleet and redundancy costs for
affected Australian staff.

This is the most concerning part of the whole report.:(

[1me]

Where is George Speight when you need him? :E

[fdr]

Change management.... Change management!

The industry has changed inexorably, the outcome of deregulation and globalisation is yet to be completed. Were these changes needed, beneficial or detrimental to the user, the industry or the investor? With the myopia of too short a temporal scale, I would suggest at best the jury is still out on all of the "benefits' of either deregulation or globalisation.

QFA needed to change to remain competitive, and that has been to at least some extent occurred with good grace. Until now.

Now, the clumsy management efforts to blame the parent operation for the cost of establishing the sibling is bordering on bad taste, and is questionable from a corporate reporting position. Would think that activity by a management team that deliberately diminishes shareholder value (and I still am one of those) can end badly.

Of all the options available to the P.D. and his cronies, including his predecessors, entering into a deliberate parasitic structure that siphons both goodwill and traffic is hardly enlightened, nor has it ever ended well in any other rendition of this model to date.

Where management fails, blaming the staff is hardly productive. Putting lipstick on the pig is still not kosher, and hardly increases shareholder value.

QF has had fairly loyal customers, it is technically competent, and could compete in the marketplace given the opportunity. The passengers do recognise a con when it is being applied, Jet star is not the QF product that has been developed over time, it has it's own place, but not as a sham QF.

QF shareholders have some choices, allow the PD to continue the damage that has been wrought on the company or stop the rot, and establish QF again as a legitimate program, and account honestly for the Jetstar apparatus.

Jetstar has a place, it sets low standards, and there is a place for that, but it should not be as a cause of the continuing necrosis of QF while management blame QF for their decisions.

Industry standards are uniquely open to arbitrage; and management use this to boost profits to their shareholders to some extent. Such activity comes at a cost, and ultimately as always the cost of cost cutting gets paid, somewhere, by somebody sometime.

With disinterested investors and the management hellbent on perpetrating their management plans, the timeframe for resuscitating this icon is rapidly shrinking.

Whatever the personal opinion is of the competency of the staff, all parochialism and egos aside, the brand has been historically successful, and any decline is attributable to the conscious decisions of the incumbent management.

Industrial action? this is an engineered situation, be prepared to be part of the industry diaspora as a consequence of your actions. Would think that at below 155 cents, your unions would be better off with an LBO and firing the PD and his ilk.


"You cannot have a proud and chivalrous spirit if your conduct is mean and paltry; for whatever a man's actions are, such must be his spirit".

Demosthenes (384 BC - 322 BC), Third Olynthiac on the attack of Olynthus by Phillip II of Macedon, 349BC


"Never was there a crisis that demanded more careful handling than the present. But the difficulty lies, I think, not in proposing a plan to meet the case: what puzzles me, men of Athens, is how to put it before you. For what I have seen and heard convinces me that most of your chances have escaped us rather from a disinclination to do our duty than from a failure to understand it. I must ask you to bear with me if I speak frankly, considering only whether I am speaking the truth, and speaking with the object that things may go better in the future; for you see how the popularity-hunting of some of our orators has led us into this desperate predicament".

[TIMA9X]

M95-4TI-axQ

This is the sort of PR stunt we have to deal with. In this case, very embarrassing, he must have been the only passenger on the plane. The good news is, the media appear to be seeing through it, well some of them. (not Sunrise)

[TIMA9X]

Has anyone seen AJ lately ? Well sadly yes, just found him on BBC.com whilst checking the UK news....:ugh:

tADLaLxqRSg

BBC - Homepage (http://www.bbc.com/)

A New Spirit (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/a-new-spirit/global/en)

I am not religious but found myself saying out loud, OMG!

[my oleo is extended]

Hmmm. Just like a bad rash, he pops up where you least expect it ! That add is embarrassing and absolutely atrocious. The uncomfortable hand gestures, forced smile and spin was nauseating and has me reaching for yet another sick bag to fill. I am curious though, why didn't we see any of the tired old 767's and 747's ? I also like the way he was looking longingly out of the terminal window at the ramp operations taking place outside, he looked like a proud father looking at his new baby ! Oh sorry, he was, I think he was watching QGS in action !
This advertisement is nothing short o piffle and folly. Now where did I put my toilet brush again ?

[Sunfish]

I go with Marcus Padley, not Macquarie.

The way to make money on the stock market is to find where the market is wrong, not where it is right.

I think Macquarie is wrong about "Qantasia" ever being profitable.

Unfortunately I don't believe in shorting a stock.

[4Greens]

Probably Qantas biggest previous marketing but understated advantage was its reputation for safe operations. In my day it sold a lot of seats.

I have some experience of this factor and it is now on the line. It is a perception which may be lost.

[rocket66]

I just hope the powers that be aren't trying to force another 89' pilots dispute so that it can then hire cheaper labor elsewhere. It's really a sad story this one. We don't spend years training and thousands of dollars of our own money to earn such poultry remuneration.

Good luck guys, will be waiting with baited breath to hear.

Rocket

[ThePaperBoy]

Did Joyce just say in that video he wanted to build on their 90 years of experience? I thought a few months back in the senate inquiry that experience was over-rated? Hey AJ? Bruce?

In another 8 days we'll all be suprised to find the concerns about offshoring etc were just a storm in a tea cup. Or we'll look back at that video and pick out all of the lies...

[73to91]

That add is embarrassing and absolutely atrocious.
and is in the daily press today (Tues 16th). Someone left the Daily Telegraph (Sydney) on the train this morning.

Front Page - there's a new spirit 26 x 6 cm
Page 2 - full page - repeats the crap that AJ spoke about, including 'A state-of-the-art fleet with the best comfort, service and entertainment in the sky.' really some of the management and the board members should try flying the old 767's to HNL :ugh:
Inside back page - full page saying 'there's a new spirit'
Back Page - full page.

I quickly turned to the sports pages.

[RYAN TCAD]

...And it would seem he has heard you all coming... This is the reason for major newspaper advertising in all major national papers this morning...

THERE WILL BE A MAJOR PRESS CONFERENCE THIS MORNING AROUND 10AM I HEARD...

IT WOULD SEEM HE IS TRYING TO GET IN EARLY BEFORE ANY PLANS TO DISRUPT THIS ANNOUNCEMENT THAT WAS DUE TO BE MADE ON AUG 24 PERHAPS.

I hope this info is correct... and dont shoot the messenger if its not.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

He might be able to slip in a new Fuel Levy increase before the 24th.

[RYAN TCAD]

Well its true - he will be making a press announcement at 10am that is being broadcast live via ABC News at least.

Stay tuned! ,,,and standby.

[What The]

Why the rush?

Fed Sec, what exactly do you ask in your 61 questions?

Do you think they will see the light of day if Joyce and Clifford swamp the world with this?

It will be hard to gain traction.

[bobhoover]

Be careful all, he may well be enticing the unions to take some further action before the 24th so as to lay some blame during the reporting of annual results.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I will release the 61 questions in due course. Couple of other things need to happen first.

[adsyj]

10.00am today, is this the big one do you think?

I feel bloody sick. I just hope that maybe we have all been wrong and today management will inspire us by doing something great.

Positve thoughts, positive thoughts.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just got briefed by IR. They've decided to order 36 x 777-300ER's.

A few other things happening as well, Joyce to leave in 2 months to head a Global aircraft leasing company, BB to take over as CEO. John Borghetti is coming back to work in the mail room.

Well it is a rumour network.

[DutchRoll]

I just hope that ......... management will inspire us by doing something great.

For those who subscribe to the "many worlds" theory of the universe, that might indeed be happening. Joyce may announce that he has come to an agreement with the pilots, that Jetstar will only target the leisure market and will withdraw from routes where it is already cannibalising the full-service carrier, and announce that in a brilliant stroke of marketing genius, his incredibly under-rated executives have managed to negotiate a cut-price deal on 12 B777s fresh out of the factory, to initiate an accelerated replacement/renewal program for the mainline fleet to win back customers deserting it for other carriers. Conversion training starts Sep 1.

Unfortunately though, this won't be occurring in the universe we inhabit.

[my oleo is extended]

I will release the 61 questions in due course. Couple of other things need to happen first.
Good work Steve. Don't rush. Plot, plan and exercise your manouver meticulously and precisely. I agree that the management are likely trying to 'place the hook in the jaws' of the Unions and drag them into a showdown. One thing with 89 was that if anything, the fight was not strategised well enough. It was quick in reality with a lot of blood spilled, but the enemy was underestimated and their counter attack plan not forseen. This fight needs to be nutted out very methodically as there is even more at stake than 89 in my opinion.

73 to 91- I could not agree more. Flew to LA recently on a prehistoric 747. There was less legroom (or so it felt) on that 13 hour nightmare than there was on a Dash Q400 on the weekend. The LA flight was one of my worst international flights in cattle class in recent memory
If AJ reckons that is 'world class service' then I may as well buy an asylum seeker boat, configure it slightly (add a food cart containing a brown apple, cookie, and plastic water cup) and sail over next year.

On a positive, this mornings announcement may sound something like this - ' QF managment have agreed to base themselves offshore, as well as agreed to return all bonus payments, sign on fee's, rorts, fiddles and money making scam's used to obscenely fill their materialistic desires over the past decade'. All monies will be donated to charity. Furthermore, all management, in line with worlds best practise and in line with the ever worsening world economic climate, have agreed to work under straight salaried positions not exceeding $300k per year in total. No longer will share options be part of the remuneration packages, no links to consultancy firms will be tolerated, and no other financial interests will be accepted as part of said remuneration package'.

Over to you, you little Irish toad...

[Keg]

Interesting. Either the announcement was never going to be the 24th and that date was always mentioned to wrong foot the various other interests working against Qantas management, or something else has been going on behind the scenes to prompt QF to jump early and so to try and pre-empt and minimise the next salvo coming at them.

I suspect the latter.

Either way, I don't think today is going to be a pleasant day for QF, it's workers or the future of the airline.

[almostthere!]

Jetstar Japan......

[1me]

Flew to LA recently on a prehistoric 747

Hey easy up! Jumbo's have feelings too you know! And they are a bloody good aeroplane to boot! They are just in need of a little more TLC.. :p

I reckon there will still be an announcement on the 24th. Wouldn't they look (even moreso) like a right bunch of fools to the market if they made a pre-emptive announcement? If anything, an announcement today would just allow the cannons to be rolled out earlier! :E

[ohallen]

There are a number of announcements to the ASX on wide ranging changes.

Those who understand need to digest and comment.

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Don't get to excited about the announcement, apparently it is "Alan Joyce has become the new ambassador for Jenny Craig" :}

[my oleo is extended]

Hey easy up! Jumbo's have feelings too you know! And they are a bloody good aeroplane to boot! They are just in need of a little more TLC..
Absolutely agree !!

And perhaps Wirthless has become Ambassador for the series 'Extreme Makeover' ?? And if she hasn't, then lets sign her up, pronto.

[manfred]

On ninemsn - up to 1000 jobs to be "affected" by the changes

[ThePaperBoy]

Jetstar Japan - LCC
Asian based premium carrier - new entity
1000 jobs to go :sad:
Further A380s delayed

[spinoutofcontrol]

As per the SMH today..

Qantas Airways Ltd will make dramatic changes to its international business to make it profitable in a process that will affect 1,000 jobs.

Qantas says there will be an impact on workers from the retirement of older aircraft and network changes, while the company will look to minimise compulsory redundancies wherever possible.

[whatever6719]

OH NO...not more drip fed torture.

ABC just did a preliminary analysis and said 1000 jobs to go. Airline would not say which division or when these cuts would occur.

Its gonna get nasty...

[airsupport]

Announcements have come early............. :rolleyes:

Full details at 1000 this morning, includes 1000 jobs to go, remaining A380s delayed for 6 years, Full service Airline based in Japan, plus another LCC somewhere in Asia.

On ABC news channels now.

[qantastrike]

Just heard on abc news 24, a380 deliveries to be delayed
For 6 years! 78 new 320 to be ordered! Qantas starting a new
Premium airline in Asia! 1000 jobs to be cut! Steve help us
Save this airline now! Don't wait!

[ThePaperBoy]

At least they've realised their weaknesses - ABC claimed Qantas are reporting over 80% of people would prefer to fly with another airline and their fleet needs an upgrade.

[flying_a_nix_box]

Oh crap.....well there goes Qantas.

It looks like the current management wants to do everything but run the current airline. A previous CEO of Telstra wanted to expand everywhere and not run the company that he'd been hired to run. It took a Yank exec to sort that out and actually run the company. Coles-Myer, another example of management not wanting to run the company and wanting to do something else with it.....eg sell it off, just like previous Qantas management. Look at where Coles-Myer is now? In the history books.

[aviationboy]

Hmm so, 1000 jobs to go but many a320's on order?? Downsizing long haul perhaps? Jetstar to pick up the slack? Wasn't very specific in that regard.

[T80]

Roll out the red carpet to the other carriers :sad:

[BoundaryLayer]

Several announcements on the ASX web site - Investor Presentation at the top. Or use the link below:

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110816/pdf/420dxbfm2l4cyg.pdf

Good luck to all.

[joe cool69]

Bet the Middle Eastern carriers will snap up the 380's.

The end is nigh:(

[Cookie7]

AJ said,


I'm pleased to announce we at Qantas have a 5-year plan to return Q Int'l business to profitability starts today.

Q premiuim asian airline will not be a Q branded airline.

Q to make 1000 redundancies.

Q asked Lowy Institute to examine growth factors in Asia.

Q future hinges on Aus-Asia routes, which yield high profits.


It also sounded like Qantas will only fly to LHR via SIN and be pulling out of BKK & HK.

[standard unit]

A frequent flyer program without an airline.

Genius.

RIP Qantas. :mad:

[simsalabim]

Santiago!! wow ! What an innovator ,what a genius ! Australia to Santiago! I can't believe it wasn't thought of before. The millions of people just waiting for this announcement are dancing in the streets.Eureka!

[V-Jet]

Thanks Boundary Layer.

I've put better PPT presentations together for Council DA's. The EP's PPT person must have been given an extra assignment yesterday before they went home.

99% waffle. 0.8% Jet* and 0.2% QF.

Leprechauns have little minds to match their stature.

Amateurville. Give me a week, Flight Internationals classified contact details and I could get you a better CEO. And pay less than $1m.

I'm off to join the spontaneous street party that erupted when it was announced we are off to Santiago instead of London/Europe.

Noted 380's are going to LHR. What about FRA/CDG/ATH/FCO etc etc etc.

[1me]

Snivelling little fool...

How can you return Qantas International to "profitability" by setting up more competition especially in markets we operate in?

Like I said, management is not incompetent they are doing exactly as they have planned. The demise is well underway and is nearly perfected.

It's Qantas Jim, but not as we know it.. :(

[griffin one]

QF to SIN BA codeshare to LHR
QF to BKK BA codeshare to LHR
QF to KL MAS to LHR

AT LEAST WHEN YOU FLY EMIRATES OR QATAR THATS WHO YOU FLY ON

FANTASTIC PUT ALL YOUR PREMIUM PUNTERS ON AN A380 THEN STICK THEM ON TIRED OLD 744,S THAT DESPERATELY NEED RECONFIGS.

JUST KILLED THE KANGAROO ROUTE.

[ohallen]

Not sure that is correct. A380 goes to LHR via Singapore.

It is only 747 via HK or Bangkok that terminate and hand passengers over to BA.

[griffin one]

Well at least they will be on 777,s out of KL

[Teal]

Here are some links to the eight separate media releases today:

New International Strategy
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207411.pdf

Jetstar Japan
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207428.pdf

Building a stonger Qantas (Investor presentation)
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207437.pdf

CEO speach (Building a stronger Qantas)
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207412.pdf

Fleet Order
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207415.pdf

Enhanced partnership with BA
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207416.pdf

New lounges, 747 upgrades
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207425.pdf

Santiago (!)
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20110816/pdf/01207418.pdf

The investors seem to like it.......so far :hmm:

[Animalclub]

Seems odd to me but we have the largest Greek populated city outside of Greece yet we don't fly to Athens!!! And how many Italians and Australians of Italian descent live here!!!

[Captain Gidday]

You don't often hear Retro presentations like that in the media any more! Classic. The combination of ABC News low technology and The Accent made it sound just like RG Menzies announcing the war. (http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/wardeclared/)

Now you know exactly how your parents [or perhaps grandparents] felt as they huddled around the wireless in September 1939.
[No disrespect meant to Menzies. He at least had something important to say]

Al forgot to mention the Qantas decals to be applied over the BOAC logos in BKK and HKG. :ooh: Bring back the Comet IVs.
Everything old is new again!

[cart_elevator]

It does state in the presentation for the ASX that we will no longer fly HKG-LHR or BKK-LHR. :eek: And only the A380 flying to LHR via SIN. Thats a lot of excess crew we will have, particularly considering there are no new destinations (Santiago is just replacing Beunos Aries). :{

[teresa green]

You poor buggers, he is playing with you. This little f%$kwit is playing games with all of you. Other than he is heading to Asia with QF, what is he actually saying? Either you drive a A320, or piss off? Either you go to JQ (and they are desperately short of pilots on both A320 and A330, my young bloke is sick of hiding from them, just to get a break) or piss off? And now he is going to let you stew until Aug 24, the day of the 89 disaster. And you think he does not know that? Blokes and girls with families, mortgages, commitments, and he is stringing you out and loving it.

[my oleo is extended]

Couldn't stop laughing! The combination of ABC News low technology and The Accent made it sound just like RG Menzies announcing the war. (http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/wardeclared/)

I thought it mas more like a 70's porn flick ! All you needed was some additional cheesy music, some lime green bedsheets and AJ in a pair of purple flared pants and it would have been complete !! Hang on, that sounds more like a former Ambassador ?

[noip]

Given that Mainline being unprofitable was the supposed reason for all this, how does any of what has been said return Mainline to profitability?

(I am supposing for a minute that the assertions regarding Mainline are, in fact, true)


N

[Sunfish]

Qantas is going to get slaughtered in the marketplace. Each one of your "partners" is going to hack off a little chunk of you and eat it raw every day - you will bleed to death.

You poor suckers are also going to be force fed the "business transformation" snake oil. You can read it in the investors powerpoint BS.

I think your Board will go for another Two years before the penny drops, although it may take Three or Four if the major investors accept the "difficult business conditions" excuse.

To put it another way, outsourcing, alliances, domestic Qantas operations, contract operations in Western Australia, Qantas International, Jetstar domestic, Jetstar International, Jetstar Asia and the new Premium Asian airline are going to leave the Boards and managements heads spinning.

This cannot and will not work because the whole is guaranteed to be less than the sum of its parts.

[Bazzamundi]

No more training park drills boys. Ref has just blown time on. Playing first grade now.

[FCMC]

Not one mention of 787s and where they will be used?????

[maggotdriver]

Tell me again why AIPA stopped the QANTAS SALE ACT case? Now QANTAS will set up another carrier to eat itself, this time from outside the carcass like a hyena instead of from the inside like a parasite.

Jetconnect was and is false and misleading conduct and should have been stopped at the outset, now it is just normal practice!

This in no way implies anything negative to employees of the other airlines that are part of 'the group'. It's just that it is such a nice feeling to be undermined by;
a) the idiots you work for, and
b) the economic rationalist wenkars in Government who can't understand the paradigm for competition has to be correct on BOTH sides of the equation. Government run and sponsored airlines are NOT in any way shape or form part of a level playing field in any market, particularly when bolstered by SEZ's. Free economic zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_economic_zone#United_Arab_Emirates)

Wake up!

Where's that fcuking dog.....:ugh::mad:

[my oleo is extended]

Given that Mainline being unprofitable was the supposed reason for all this, how does any of what has been said return Mainline to profitability?

The little fella can only say that 'reducing the workforce by 1000' will fix the problem. Why doesn't he outline the actual root cause of the alleged 'mainline fiasco' for all to see, including a breakdown of poor management decisions and related issues that have contributed? If you are going to wield an axe, start chopping at the core of the problem. The way the execs are acting you would think that they feel they are immortal, have been filled with divine holy spirit and are some sort of Elliot Ness ? Its time to remove the head of the fish.
Again, a 90 year institute smashed apart by43% in 24 months by a 5 foot human wrecking ball, and the shareholders are happy with this ??? Unbelievable !
Keep polishing that turd AJ.

[wishiwasupthere]

Anyone who has Facebook, it might be worth having a look at the posts on the Qantas FB page in response to todays announcements. Some interesting reading there! A lot of people can see straight through the QF PR spin!!

[DrPepz]

Omg is Qantas serious? The only place they are launching is Santiago, and they're cutting HKG-LHR and BKK-LHR? Does this mean QF will only fly three times a day into LHR?

There's no mention of QF flying to KUL though. An a premium airline in Asia with 11 A320s? When CX and SQ are flying widebodies throughout Asia? Any idea where this "premium hub" will be? If it's KUL, will MH and AK just take it lying down? If it's SIN, which makes the most logical sense since very soon QF will only fly to SIN to feed into 3K and BA, how will they fight CX in its home market in the premium section? At least 3K was slugging it out with TR and not directly competing with SQ in its market segment.

[Beer Baron]

Dr Pepz, Does this mean QF will only fly three times a day into LHR?
I think it means they will only fly two times a day into LHR. The QF31 and the QF9 both through SIN. :*

[vitamin B]

As a frequent traveller on the BKK/SYD route some years ago, I used to really get p!$$&d off at attempts to book on QF1 and QF2 only to have it suggested I book on QF 301 and QF 302 which was the code share flight operated by BA.
Their 747's were even worse than the clapped out QF 747s and it was impossible to get more than 2 beers on the sector let alone a cold one. I also used to have run the gauntlet of the 0600 arrival into SYD, the endless queues at immigration and longer ones at Customs prior to getting a flight up to BNE. Now punters on the SYD/LHR flights will all be shunted off onto BA if they transit BKK.

Thankfully TG commenced operations BNE/BKK/BNE and I switched over to TG as carrier of preference. Modern 777/200 or 777/300 series with a choice of up to FOUR main course meals in business class. Never once was a requested main course not provided - unlike QF "J" class - take it or leave it.

No wonder QF International is in deepest ****e given the reduction in sectors flown by QF aircraft and flown by QF pilots.

As a frequent reader of the ongoings by this Oirish Leperacoon, best wishes to the QF LAMES and flight crew in the ongoing battle with management.

(I am not in anyway whatsoever associated with the aviation industry - only a SLF currently flying a minimum of 2 sectors/week within Oz)

vitamin B

[my oleo is extended]

Omg is Qantas serious? The only place they are launching is Santiago, and they're cutting HKG-LHR and BKK-LHR? Does this mean QF will only fly three times a day into LHR?
Think outside the square towards the next enthralling magical marketing decison regarding upcoming additional ports - Chechnya, Burundi, Somalia, Sudan and Iraq....

[fdr]

If QF was an animal, management would be reported to the RSPCA...

"costs 20% above competitors..." Right. Who elected to maintain the outdated airframes of the mainline when gains of the "20%" were available and being taken up by the competition? Probably not the engineers, pilots etc...

Pornstar Nippon? yep worked well for ANA.... their program adds so much confidence in that plan. JAL being a partner is equivalent to opening up a massage parlour with the local leper colony. At least the PD casts damage far and wide evenly.

Fleet review? QFA mainline is to wither on the vine. Again, even pets would get euthanasia, (and parties that are responsible for the decades of neglect would be held accountable).

The concept of Jetstar adding anything of value to the LCC model in China is interesting. Currently of course, the shortage of crews (particularly B737 and 320) is such that the crew costs are already near legacy levels. Assume there will be a very small crowd rushing for poverty packs with a renowned nasty startup program headed by the PD.

Good luck, and start dusting off your resumes (or get serious). Good news is that there is a demand still for some of you guys at least.

Welcome to the brave new world.

[airsupport]

Sadly it looks to me as though the Qantas name will disappear altogether in the near future. :(

Domestically it will all be done by Jetstar, using contractors mainly as ground staff, and Internationally by these new LCC and Premium Airline they are starting. :(

I do hope NOT, but that is what it looks like, no more Qantas, the Spirit of Australia, or Flying Kangaroo. :(

[600ft-lb]

Twitter (http://twitter.com/#%21/QantasAirways)
Qantas | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/Qantas)
@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) the flying kangaroo is further demoted as 2nd class carrier, passengers & staff treated as a red number on balance sheetWatch the @QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) twitter feed for a case study on how not to do social media #shambles (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23shambles) #spam (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23spam)It takes a particularly gifted/twisted (depending on point of view) PR person in @QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) to call 1000 job losses #anewspirit (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23anewspirit)@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) HOW CAN THEY BE VOLUNTARY YOU LEPRECHAUN IF YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TOLD THE EMPLOYEES WHO HAS LOST THEIR JOBS YET?!@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) take the Q & NT out of qantas, no need to drag queensland & NT's good names through the mud with you. #unaustralian (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23unaustralian)
@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways). #anewspirit (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23anewspirit) of hate, betrayal and profiteering over 10,000 jobs "effected" by reorganisation.@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) makes me sad that 1000 people have to lose their jobs because of a failure of planning foresight by management, thoughWell, the Qantas social media contractors are earning their money today, plenty of vitriol on the twit terverse. AJ can try to dress this up anyway he wants, facts is facts and people aren't as stupid as Qantas management take them for.

#anewspirit
#youresacked
#qantasia

[Jethro Gibbs]

Game Over Pay Us out.

[The Green Goblin]

Qantas doesn't deserve the Q and the NT in it's name anymore.

What is left? AAS

Another Asian Sellout

High fives and back slaps all around.

[PyroTek]

@QantasAirways (http://twitter.com/QantasAirways) take the Q & NT out of qantas, no need to drag queensland & NT's good names through the mud with you. #unaustralian (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23unaustralian)

AAS? Sounds a bit like "ASS" to me. :cool: