Alan Joyce Chief Executive Qantas June 22/6/11 Address to the National Press Club"

[breakfastburrito]

Alan Joyce
Chief Executive Qantas
June 22, 2011
"Address to the National Press Club"
WORKING PRESS BOOKINGS ONLY [email protected]

http://www.npc.org.au/assets/drgalleries/572/thumb_alan-joyce.jpg
Alan Joyce was appointed Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Qantas in November 2008 and CEO Designate and to the Qantas Board in July 2008.

He is a Member of the Safety, Health, Environment and Security Committee. Mr Joyce is a Director of a number of controlled and associated entities of the Qantas Group, and a former Director of Orangestar Investment Holdings Pte Limited and Jetstar Pacific Airlines Aviation Joint Stock Company.

He was the CEO of Jetstar from 2003 to 2008. Before that, Mr Joyce spent over 15 years in leadership positions for Qantas, Ansett and Aer Lingus.

At both Qantas and Ansett, he led the Network Planning, Schedules Planning and Network Strategy functions. Prior to that, Mr Joyce spent eight years at Aer Lingus, where he held roles in Sales, Marketing, IT, Network Planning, Operations Research, Revenue Management and Fleet Planning.

National Press Club page. (http://www.npc.org.au/speakers/alan-joyce.html)
View on ABC1 & ABC24 at 12:32pm Wednesday 22 June 2011.

I should have this up on youtube tomorrow evening.

[rodchucker]

Can hardly wait it will be just more of the same.

The only hope of any interesting points will be if:
1. He admits past mistakes.
2. He accepts just a small portion of responsibility for the mess this business is in.
3. Gives a proper assessment of the true causes of the business problems.
4. He stops blaming staff for everything that has and will go wrong.
5. He gets some serious questions from the attending journos.
6. Anyone twigs to the fact this may be his attempt to deflect attention from Senate Report.
6. Announces his departure with a bunch of directors.

Hell may freeze over first I suspect.

BUT I do see an opportunity knowing how journos trawl this site and basically need to be hand fed. Lets change this thread to " A good question to ask Alan Joyce" and feed them the lines.

I would gladly donate a bottle of red for "the most awkward question of the day".

[Autobrakes4]

I hope they've got a translator ready. I can never understand a word that bloke says. :eek:

[1a sound asleep]

Mr Joyce spent over 15 years in leadership positions for Qantas, Ansett and Aer Lingus

*Aer Lingus founded in the 1930's is 29.4% owned by its rival, Ryanair, and 25.4% owned by the Government of Ireland. History of sustained loss making. Failed takeover bid in 2008 by Ryanair
*Ansett - hardly a recommendation for sound management. (Failed) takeover bid by Air New Zealand which ended in collapse
*Qantas Founded in the 1920's, previously owned by Government, commenced a steady descent into loss making with AJ's leadership. Failed takeover bin in 2007

Alarm Bells anybody? Not the history I want for a Qantas' CEO. Smells foul then assume it is foul

Please stand up at the next AGM and let the shareholders know. The #1 place you will be heard is the shareholders.... shareholders have invested in the company because they believe in it (just like employees have invested their futures in QAN). The only people that care are shareholders and employees. The management/board are merely here for the ride.

[-438]

I can give you the script before he delivers it.
Firstly emphasise how difficult it is in aviation to make money.
He will talk of constant shock syndrome in aviation.
He will then talk about the GFC, volcanoes, 2 speed economy and how it has adversely affected the business.
Next those impossible QF unions & living in cloud cuckoo land ( this will be the body of his speech )
Followed by a plea for government concessions regarding accountancy practices & depreciation schedules.
A small spiel on the effects of poor infrastructure in Australia.
Finally there will be information regarding how smart Qantas executives have been setting up Jetstar & how successful it has been, tied in with how smart Qantas executives are in their implementation of frequent flyer tie ups with Woolworths.

There will be no mention of all the bad decisions regarding fleet and configuration.
No mention of poor shareholder return.
No mention of instability in executive ranks.
No mention of the effects of some of the poorest engagement levels of any major company worldwide.

[The Black Panther]

Hello Mr Joyce, The Black Panther from PPrune

1. Your board appears to be heavily weighted with Private Equity bankers and LCC experience, do you consider this makeup is making the right decisions for a full service airline located many miles from other markets with a population of 23million people or is the board a reflection of the direction the company is headed?

2. The Qantas staff have openly complained about disengagement, lack of cohesion with management and feelings of resentment, many are voicing there complaints on social media and forums. The company conducted an engagement survey but you have held detailed results. You have publicly stated there union leaders are "rogues and kamikazes" and they some are seeking pay rise of 26% (which they deny saying it is 3 x 3). Are you prepared to continue this fight you will you faithfully try to seek middle ground in the next few weeks of negotiations and considering the disruptions the traveling public have already experienced this year?

3. Of all the fines wines we have in Australia do you think Qantas really needs to buy Toolangi wines?

[Swimbetweentheflags]

Is your misfunctioning calculator responsible for Jetstars bottom line being propped up by muffins and coffee? :suspect:

Have Jetstar paid for the aircraft they have received or is it a simple case of just getting them gifted from big sister? Nice way to shave the expenses and show a profit if that is the case. Open books for greater transparency and an independent audit of just how Jetstar is supposedly propping up big sister.

[capt.cynical]

I hope the press club have a shovel near the lecturn because their will be a big pile of
steaming 1/3's to clean up when he finishes speaking. to be sure to be sure !! :yuk::mad:

[stubby jumbo]

Here's a question for some lazy journo to pick up.... to lob at feet of AJ at the Press Club.

As CEO of one of the most prestigious aviation safety brands in the world, do you regret using the derogatory term "KAMIKAZE" to describe "industrial tactic's" relating to Pilots and Aircraft Engineers.....the keepers of this Safety brand?

Which way do you tink his eye balls will roll on this one?

GOOSE:hmm:

[gruntyfen]

Air Asia is about to announce an order of around 200 aircraft at Paris on Thursday. What effect will that have on QANTAS/Jetstar.

[manfred]

And so it begins:


Longhaul flights clip wings at Qantas (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/longhaul-flights-clip-wings-at-qantas-20110621-1gdlx.html)


THE Qantas chief executive, Alan Joyce, will outline today a structural shake-up of the airline's operations to reverse the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars on international flights.

In a speech that will seek to confront the unions with which the airline is now at war, Mr Joyce is expected to announce a modest overall annual profit for Qantas but with no thanks to its international operations.

While Jetstar and Qantas domestic are doing well, Mr Joyce is set to announce Qantas's international operations will record an annual loss of more than $200 million.



Read more: Longhaul flights clip wings at Qantas (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/longhaul-flights-clip-wings-at-qantas-20110621-1gdlx.html#ixzz1PvMxTbFy)

[1a sound asleep]

Mr Joyce is set to announce Qantas's international operations will record an annual loss of more than $200 million.

I think we need to look at the bigger picture

* Qantas doesn't fly to many places and its quicker/easier to connect on the likes of EK usually at a cheaper fare
* Qantas is still flying 744s when in many instances a 773 would make far more $$$$
* Loyal pax are running from QF because they hate JQ
* We have had volcanos in Europe, Ash in Australia, disasters in Japan and NZ
* The QF PR machine went into reverse years ago
* The worst CEO who had only ever worked for loss making airlines before arriving at The Qantas group

What do you expect??????

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Of course, no blame shall be acknowledged for the decline in the international product. It's all the fault of us kamakazie's and rogues.

Nothing to do with poor route decicions, poor fleet decisions, poor choice of IFE or lack of innovation or investment in product.

Nope. It is the fault of pesky staff wanting some job security.

[Howard Hughes]

Surely AJ will just sit in the background while Ms Wirth makes his statements for him...;)

[gobbledock]

Perhaps the Shareholders will be smart enough to what the Middle East nations are presently doing - Revolt against an undemocratic reigime which is hell bent on filling the pockets of a handful of upper echelon untouchables who profiteer at the expense of the rest of the populous, and overturn the ruling evil empires in less than a week ??
Food for thought.

[What The]

What a coincidence!

On the same day that the Senate Inquiry is to release the interim report!

Who would have thought?

Onya Jetstar!

[Captain Sherm]

Ia et al,

Emotion aside, and as journos may be trawling through these posts as they prepare questions, it is probably appropriate and desirable to focus things a little:

You listed a number of reasons Qantas long-haul is in trouble:

1. Qantas doesn't fly to many places and its quicker/easier to connect on the likes of EK usually at a cheaper fare

This is a critical item and deserves first place. Have a look at Singapore's route map and compare. As a matter of pure arithmetic even Singapore would have a least performing route. So if once a month they cut out that least performing route, then the next month the least performing of the ones that remain etc etc.....in a finite number of months they would have no routes at all. So drowning the weakest kitten in the litter is not a desired strategy.

2. Qantas is still flying 744s when in many instances a 773 would make far more $$$$

Yes, almost so self-evident that it goes without saying. No-one else has the same fleet strategy as QF. And the 787 whenever it comes doesn't solve this problem. It will help flesh out the route map and be much better on domestic and regional routes than the 767. However since the first 787s are going to Jetstar it is not at all sure that their delivery will do anything at all to help the bottom line of QF Long Haul. Boeing have not anywhere near finished the development of the 777 suite of airplanes and they will be being delivered for years if not decades. Still plenty of time to fix this gaping hole in the fleet and the associated haemorrhage in fuel and maintenance costs

3. Loyal pax are running from QF because they hate JQ

Seriously doubt this is an issue for long-haul. Hard to imagine some pax refusing to fly with QF on long-haul because they don't like JQ domestic. And where JQ has replaced QF Long haul on international routes then if existing QF pax voted with their feet it would be JQ International that would be bleeding, not QF Long-haul. Long haul load factors are generally excellent and the yields probably fairly good otherwise, with the hideous fleet mix, they'd be losing even more money.The problems with QF long-haul are far more on the cost side and that isn't fixed by putting lipstick on the fleet pig, it's getting the basic structure right, routes, fleet, productivity and product focus.

4. We have had volcanos in Europe, Ash in Australia, disasters in Japan and NZ

This is a factor though given the slim margins overall that QF makes when the fleet is grounded a number of variable costs are not incurred. And many of the pax will resume their journey anyway so the revenue will come back. In any case it is a cost that most airlines are bearing and another resosn to have your basic structure right in the first place.

5. The QF PR machine went into reverse years ago

6. The worst CEO who had only ever worked for loss making airlines before arriving at The Qantas group

Item 5 is annoying but doesn't mean much on the income statement. Item 6 relates to the non-delivery of items 1, 2 and 3, nothing personal at all, just an inability to get the Board to fund the correct structure and a lack of understanding of how to reform in a difficult competitive environment.

Looking forward to the Press Club address and the Senate report. Lots to talk about them!

Safe flying

Sherm

[Ultergra]

Today we learn about the restructure of Qantas. It involves cutting of flights and transfer of business to Jetstar.

Should be a day of raised blood pressure and increased frustration.

[simsalabim]

What's the bet he gets a soft run during question and answer time? Those gutless hacks reporting for main stream media know where their bread is buttered.

[Toruk Macto]

Qantas in trading holt now, could be an interesting speech!

[Howard Hughes]

SOLD...to the lowest bidder!;)

[Bluebottle]

"The trading halt is requested pending an announcement in relation to Qantas' financial outlook, which is likely to be considered materially price sensitive in relation to Qantas."

[TBM-Legend]

I've just finished reading a book about my father's cousin called "A Man Among Mavericks" - the story of Lester Brain who was Qantas's first Chief Pilot and the founding GM of TAA.

It is a pretty good story of a little publicly known great Australian airline man..

He'd be turning in his grave at the current situation.

[DaHai]

Last night on CNN in Asia, it was reported that QATAR had placed an order for 6 additional 777s. The spokesman for QATAR was very happy with the aircraft and with QATAR's performance internationally. He went on to say, (if my memory serves me correct), that over the next few years they would be opening up another 15 routes.
It appears many airlines like the 777.
It appears many airlines are doing well internationally.
Did QF decide against the aircraft, perhaps at the time for valid reasons, and now do not wish to revisit that decision in the light of changes to the industry or economy? Something like "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts!" I guess only the board really know. It would be nice to hear of the reasons and also the current reasons now for not ordering the aircraft.
Is QF seriously evaluating new routes?
As previous posters have commented on, the make up of the board with a significant number of people without airline experience is confusing. Now if you were looking to sell or not run an airline, then the board without airline experience would make sense. To me anyway!
Apart from PPRUNE, is anyone in Australia asking QF management any questions?
I hope that the Press Club address provides a forum for some in depth questioning.

[JohnMcGhie]

What's the bet he gets a soft run during question and answer time? Those gutless hacks reporting for main stream media know where their bread is buttered.

Guys: As a former journo (long time ago, but the rules haven't changed much) let me explain how this works...

The objective of the exercise is not to throw food at the guest at a National Press Club luncheon. That would only get you fired, or black-balled, or both. Either can be a little "career negative". I know this, because I got drunk and did almost exactly this at a press conference in Sydney one day...

A "professional pilot" does not decide that just because there is a CB in the way, he should fly "more aggressively". It's likely to end badly... He goes around it.

A "professional journalist" greets his interviewee in a friendly manner and treats them with respect and courtesy. He or she asks questions. The journos who hope one day to get to a major newspaper or TV station do as much in-depth research as time permits, so they may ask "intelligent" questions.

They then Report the Answers. Journos are conduits, not sculptors. Journos report the news, they do not make the news; and they certainly hope to avoid becoming the news.

The journos will report what Joyce says, in a calm, measured, and professional manner. It's up to the public to decide whether the man is full of knowledge, or full of something else.

There's a growing trend here on PPrune of criticising journos for reporting rubbish, while redoubling your efforts to prevent the journos getting anything else. All those posts here saying "Be careful not to provide accurate information, the journos might be reading!"??

If you want to get your message out, you might want to re-think that strategy :-)

[zappalin]

He's already all confused... I'm sure he just called us an 'Ireland continent'. :p

[King William III]

A freudian slip…..
he really struggled to get the word 'restructure' out…..reconstruction was the word that came out…….

Bye bye Qantas :yuk:

[gruntyfen]

Looks clear that he's heading to announce some expansion of J* Asia or a new entity to take over some international from mainline.

[600ft-lb]

ABC News - ABC News 24 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/)


its on now

[600ft-lb]

August 24 is the day the red rat becomes orange

[ACT Crusader]

"out of touch with reality".....

[dragon man]

This bloke is a f**kwit. There is no hope. There is only one person out of touch here and its Joyce the silly prick.

[1a sound asleep]

From the ABC and AJ

A large modern fleet?
The only Australian airline?
RR compensation agreed over A380 - $95 million
Repair cost of A380 $135m covered by insurance
FEB 2011 at earliest before A380 repaired
Profit $500-$550 million for 2010-2011
$200 million in losses from weather events/disruptions
$200 million loss in QF International ops
Jetstar is hugely profitable
FF profitable
Domestic strong 65% market share
New domestic airfare structure announced tomorrow (QF no meals/baggage????)
International is too capital intensive and doesn't cover its costs
Next year will be worse for International
Waiting for the punch line..........
Good years not good enough to offset the bad
Cost base is too high, cant compete with overseas costs
Implication of EK being a major threat
35% to 20% share of international market, still dropping
Reference to Ansett collapse - failed to respond to times... punch line still coming
August 24 announcement re new/cutting Qantas International routes
More joint ventures/alliances, especially Asia, within Asia (Jetstar)
Tough decisions on unprofitable routes
Qantas to become based in other parts of the world
Industrial relations - generous employer exceeds world standards
Long Haul Pilots and Engineers out of touch with reality. Destructive behavior.
Unions leading employees down wrong path. No guarantee of job security will happen.
QF/JQ cannot and will not share same pilot rates.
Most QF employees hate Union agression

[ACT Crusader]

The Herald Sun with a Dorothy-Dixer on Climate Change

[Xcel]

Qantasia here we come...

Think he has "stepped out of touch with reality" way to lie on national tv.

550 million profit - for the "group"

200 million loss for "qantas international"
200 million loss from weather and disruptions - oh what a coincidence

So jetstar international profit goes to the group
So jet connect profit goes to the group
So the rolls Royce payout goes to the group
So the profits of leasing and giving free aircraft to jetstar are not linked to reality

So the fallout of qf32 goes to the loss of international
So the purchase of aircraft goes to the loss of international
So the cost to fight unions and fines from price fixing goes to the loss of international
Give no benifit or balance of profit from qantas FF to international even though it is the reason it makes a profit...

Cook the books, lie through your teeth, the last 15 minutes was pure bull****e and aimed directly at unions and increasing aj's bonus as a result...

[King William III]

another Freudian slip…..

Talking about Qantas having a 'buwngled product' ( he meant bundled)

[Xcel]

Just let slip on the strategy...

Thanks dude from the age...

Jetstar and qantasia joint venture internationally I.e the rat is going the cats asshole is coming and your choice is gone

[73to91]

With what he said regarding the check-in kiosk's - I received an email this morning (PEX). I copy some of the article here as it is very interesting.

As a customer, I’ve never been clear about why companies choose to provide self-service. And based on my user experiences I am not sure that they are clear.

Most companies are schizophrenic, oscillating between the two options
Reducing costs by eliminating customer facing staff
Improving customer satisfaction by allowing access when and where a customer wants it


Clearly self service is on the increase. Just, this week I have been a supermarket checkout operator, an airline check-in assistant and baggage handler, and bank teller. And this is just the physical self service. There is an even longer list of online self service actions this week; buying books, ordering tickets, trying to book a US driving test.

So is it cost saving or improved customer satisfaction? The critical question is: “Can it be both, and if so what is required?”

Firstly, self service has some unique characteristics, whether it is B2B or B2C
The user of the self service is an untrained and infrequent user
There is limited opportunity to get feedback on the experience from the user
In most situations, if it is too difficult or confusing a user simply walks away, into the arms of a competitor
It can make or destroy a customer relationship
Done well it can be a huge competitive advantage, reduce costs and improve customer satisfaction
It is rarely done well

At the heart of the problem is the strategy. Self service should be seen as a way of providing far better customer service and a competitive differentiation. It should NOT been seen as a cost cutting. Done well it will result in reduced costs.

Once the strategy is clear, then the things fall into place. An outside-in, customer-centric view of the end to end process needs to be taken. Although self-service is customer facing / front office, it will reach deep into the organization and may change back office processes. For most organizations this is a significant task requiring a senior level commitment in terms of time, resources and budget.

This is very different to the cost cutting quick fix where a website or telephone menu system is often slapped onto poor front facing processes and ineffective back office processes. Sadly this is the approach that most of us experience day in, day out.

Poor customer processes means that no matter how good, friendly and attentive your staff are…… they will fail. Because customer processes are like Gortex.


http://www.processexcellencenetwork.com/customer-experience/columns/the-perils-of-self-service-select-1-for-confusion/&mac=SSIQ_OI_Featured_2011&utm_source=processexcellencenetwork.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SSOptIn&utm_content=6/21/11

[teresa green]

Watching it right now, the question is why cannot they reach agreement with pilots and engineers, naturally you are all a bunch of bastards, determined to bring the company to its knees. He said it more politely than that, but that is the gist. He is appealing to the public for support. (applause from the journo's). I also suspect we all being buttered up for a partnership with another airline, and QF will no longer be solo. Probably wrong but the feeling is there.

[Jackneville]

He mentioned all of the negative costs / events affecting the group but seemed to forget the millions, tens ? , hundreds ? (post tax dollars) being paid in fines for participating in illegal freight cartels.

[teresa green]

Legend, you are right about Lester Brain, the true aviator. I had the pleasure of meeting him when a young F/O in TAA, nobody has impressed me more. A man of few words, but what he said was worth bottling. One of QF'S and TN'S finest, without a word of a doubt. If only he was running the show now, he always put his staff first, always. He recognised their worth, he recognised the fact that without them he had no airline to run, he loved his pilots and engineers and his door was always open. I was in awe of the bloke and his achievements, this book as Legend quotes, is a must read, if you love aviation and aviation history.:D

[nitpicker330]

It's time for him to start running the Airline and stop making excuses. Other Airlines face similar pressures to QF and continue running ok.

[whatever6719]

I reckon they were the lamest questions ever asked by journalists!! They could have had a field day.

[carro]

-438 Spot on!

[speeeedy]

I posted this in another thread but relevant here too:

MORE LIES AND FAULTY CALCULATIONS

At the press club Mr Joyce told a big fat lie:

He said that the AIPA are demanding that Jetstar pilots to be paid the same as Qantas pilots.

Out and Out Bulls&#T.

In addition he said that if this (completely false) claim was allowed that Jetstars unit costs would increase by 50%.

What is wrong with this bloke?

If the claim was true (which it isn't) then jetstar pilots would get about 30% more. Pilots wages presently make up about 4% of the total costs of Jetstar, therefore using a non-faulty calculator a pay rise of such magnitude would increase costs by 1.2%.

A far cry from 50%.

But remember he lied about the claim anyway... There is no such claim, nor can there be, legally AIPA cannot negotiate terms of a separate agreement within the negotiations for the long haul one.

The facts are that the claim whilst a little complicated, essentially asks for Qantas brand flying to be on terms and conditions no less than Qantas.

Mr Joyce - Please:

a) Stop lying

b) Buy a new calculator.

c) Leave and take Clifford with you.

[hbomb]

I have been a Qantas extremist (do anything to get there) since the 'I own an airline' teeshirt era. I have seen the many positive sides of the various hegemonies since then. But this is too much - these guys are well out of their depth. They are treating as a commodity something that is much more valuable than that to very many Australians. Go, please, and hand over to someone who knows where value lies in an icon.

[speeeedy]

Oh...

And apparently Qantas Pilots and Engineers are "expected the world over".

He meant to say respected but just couldn't bring himself.

Or maybe with QF moving offshore maybe they are expected to move over the world.

[TIMA9X]

It's time for him to start running the Airline and stop making excuses. Other Airlines face similar pressures to QF and continue running ok. Oh yes, lets hope someone in the press can see through what we all have known for months. Yes, the guys at the top need to be brought back to earth with a thud.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G7Wx2DVW3Jw/TgFsWKPtw6I/AAAAAAAABBc/b5Z7r_Icfqw/s640/Qantas-crossing-the-road-up.jpg

Blind or what?.

My view, spent 90 years building an ICON, and these guys slowly destroy it in the last ten.

['holic]

The only bit I agreed with was when he called Jetstar an "unbelievable" business. He's right - I don't believe it.

I heard him several times refer to the J* Int franchise as "very profitable". J* Pacific is a basket case. J* Asia has lost $80m since it started and only just last year posted a very small profit of $4m. And there have been questions asked in the Singaporean media as to whether the company is being propped up by J*/Qantas.

J* Int carries more than double the pax to Japan than QF, so you would think they would have borne the majority of the $72m loss due to the earthquake. Add to that about another $10m for CHC and I'm struggling to believe they didn't make a loss as well.

After repeatedly stating that Jetstar and FF were carrying the rest of the group, he did mention QF Dom once .... as an afterthought. That must have really hurt.

[unionist1974]

A very worrying future for QF International folk , you all need to draw breath and think about yesterday ( how good it WAS ) and tomorrow , what will that be?

[stubby jumbo]

That would, without doubt, be one of the worst public speaking performances I have ever witnessed.

The guy can't ever string consecutive sentences together-he's an embarrassment!

The disjointed structure, lame stories(the one about the lady talking on ABC Radio re: the Cairo flight- pathetic !) and passion (lack of) were at a Year 5 primary student level. Getting the words RESTRUCTURE mixed up with RECONSTRUCTION was inexcusable.

How long can the Board put up with this incompetence?

As for the Journo's questions (aka back slapping). Are you kidding me???

Only ONE-(the guy with the beard) came close to asking a real question.
AJ could not believe his luck.....or was it luck.:oh:

Obviously he had a table full of his No...#1 QF supporters-Simon (FF question), PW (Op's question), Rob (Sales/tourism question) .....and good 'ol BB smirking like a cheshire cat at the number of times JQ were mentioned.

Aug 24 will be very interesting. The JV with another airline(insert: Malaysian) will be even more interesting.

[Xcel]

Love his choice of numbers - transparent accounting practice would show the truth...

$5billion in capital -
yes which is given as free service to the rest of the group
Yes which is held in either aircraft which are so old they have been depreciated to the tax man to near zero
Yes which are tied up in aircraft which haven't been delivered

Already indicated the truth about the other figures in my previous post

The worst part is listening to the ridiculous journos who ask the questions and lap it up and polish the egos of corporate Australia.... Heaven forbid some of their 500 million is taken from the mediaadvertising and perks given to keep the public complacent. How about reinvesting in your business - increase productivity and efficiency by having an engaged workforce and finally freeing a dividend instead of a ridiculous bonus system that rewards short term sacrifices and long term destruction...

[Sunfish]

Onanist1974:

A very worrying future for QF International folk , you all need to draw breath and think about yesterday ( how good it WAS ) and tomorrow , what will that be?

So the usual troll confirms that the way to make Joyces baby Jetstar profitable is to destroy the mainline.

[Toruk Macto]

They only have the resources to take on one segment at a time. This time it's the international group. Good luck to you guys , however if your domestic , regional or contractors please don't make the mistake that your operation is safe. Once they do international I'm sure they will just move on to the next group.

[rowdy trousers]

Strange how the speech started with the emotional anicdotes regarding the iconic status of Qantas, and his role as custodian, and finished with an attack on two of the main goups of employees who have contributed so much to making it an icon.

One Ting is now certain, the stratergy is without doubt, red tails flying out of / through Asia with crews on "locally relevant" terms and conditions.

[hadagutfull]

Looks like be better mark our calendars... we getting our own " march of the orange people" parade it seems....

Not popular in Ireland..... sure as s:mad:t not welcomed here.......

[denabol]

Some interesting points at the end of Sandilands post today.

Qantas to totally restructure its international division | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/06/22/joyce-gives-clues-to-major-surgery-on-qantas-international-operations/)

Commentary The disclosures made by Joyce mean that the incomplete enterprise bargaining negotiations with the pilots and licensed engineers are now being conducted without the unions knowing what material changes to the Qantas business are going to be introduced early in the lifetime of the agreements.
They also mean that investors know that major changes are being made to the Qantas business, but not their details.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

I timed it and he spent about 10% of his speech whining about the engineering and pilots unions. That is a big chunk of time bagging these "valuable staff members".

Disgraceful Alan! :=

[Level-Headed]

In regards to the following comment "A professional pilot" does not decide that just because there is a CB in the way, he should fly more aggressively. It's likely to end badly... He goes around it"....I Agree with the first part of your statement however in regards to the second let me make a more accurate comment "A good pilot goes around a CB with enough separation to make it Safe, comfortable and efficient. No more no less".. In the same way all the journo's here are the equivalent of a pilot flying 200 miles around that same CB....Very Unproductive, inefficient and overly safe. .

The majority of questions asked where in my opinion irrelevant to what is going on at QF. For 3 different journo's to ask basically the same question relating to the ash cloud etc is simply a wasted opportunity to scrutinize and perhaps or at least get some answers.. I relate to the fact that the most likely reason for the strong decline in the stock price (notwithstanding another profit announcement?) is the potential industrial action so why on earth weren't more questioned asked in regards to this? I understand that you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you or get black-balled but this was just a pathetic excuse and simply allowed AJ to put more spin and get some free publicity for his argument. You can still ask tough, intelligent question without being disrespectful..On this occasion none where asked.

Finally I also understand that most of the people here are only messengers since they only report and not write stories. But here is where the problem lies and it's hard to argue with your final statement "It's up to the public to decide whether the man is full of knowledge, or full of something else." since they will end up with a one sided story. (Not good reporting if you asked me:=)

AJ is smarter (read devious) than a lot of people credit him for and here to portray the union representatives as the the ones responsible for "The inclusion of the Job security clause" is a brilliant (read unfair and blatant distortion of truth) strategy. As a junior QF driver all I can say is that those representatives are trying to fix/stop our career literally flying away. It is no dream/illusion or a product of my imagination. I know my colleagues would back me up so. The question is Who's living in Cooh-Cooh land?. Not me I bet cha!! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Ultergra]

This all plays nicely into AJ's hands. He becomes a part of the press club meeting, knowing full well an impending anouncement is only to say that there will be another anouncement in August. It drives down the share price and his tactics in this industrial debate gets world wide media attention. Everyone listened and what a great way to try and put fear in its pilots.

This war has been taken to a media level where the union can not fight it.

He means war. Vote yes.

[Sonny Hammond]

And start looking for a new job.

Don't want to fear monger, but looking at the QF fleet makeup and the very likely prospect that there will be routes cut and thus aircraft retired, it looks like the long awaited 'sign this new sub-J* contract or face redundancy is upon you.

Redundancy payout- I wonder how much AIPA can negotiate for? Same as the FEOs?

This press game may be fear mongering, to a certain extent definitely but will AJ all of a sudden renege on this threat? Unlikely.
There are BIG changes coming, like it or not.

As IL said, its their train set...

Control your destiny fella's.

[Xcel]

Ultra - agree 100% - fear campaign and propaganda !!!

[Ngineer]

I believe that he could have better timed the press stunt to co-incide with the up-coming industrial action, ratherthan before it gets under way. (That's if he wanted it to have any positive effect).

Apart from that if I was a manager at this level I would prefer to deal with any issue's going on in my departments personally rather than burden the Australian public with my frustrations.

Just my own thoughts.

[WoodenEye]

All is not lost. The Sprit of Australia can prevail.

EU and US corporate history confirms that when a pending serious clash between labour and capital is set to, all but destroy shareholder wealth & continuing employement, far sighted shareholders and unions sometimes come together to take control.

However, the final outcome is most often something neither Management nor Unions seemingly contemplated while their dispute was being escalated to the point where Shareholders and Employees become United.

Long live the Roo.

[bonvol]

The choice specifically of August 24 for the announcement is interesting.

Oldmeadow at work here?

[601]

Am I missing something.

AJ talks about Frequent Flyers an asset. This had me puzzled somewhat.

A few years ago the American airlines were worried about the amount of frequent flyer points that their passengers had accumulated and that if all the pax were to convert the points to flights/goods/cash, the action would bankrupt the airlines.

How come frequent flyers is now an asset and not a liability?

If I owe anyone in cash or kind, is it not a liability?

[Captain Sherm]

Don't know if anyone else noticed but there's one thing you have to admire about AJ and that's a wonderful sense of the ironic.

Who else would have picked on August 24 to announce the big reshuffle? Exactly 22 years since the last big reshuffle of similar proportions. That cost Australia 3 passenger airlines and the loss of about 1300 pilots.

However, many of us did go on to long and happy careers flying the wonderful Boeing 777, something that it seems unlikely will happen in Australia, at least not with a white kangaroo on the tail.

Safe flying

Sherm

(just noticed, Bonvol beat me to it!)

[WorthWhat]

In that Sandilands’ has publically stated

'The disclosures made by Joyce mean that the incomplete enterprise bargaining negotiations with the pilots and licensed engineers are now being conducted without the unions knowing what material changes to the Qantas business are going to be introduced early in the lifetime of the agreements… and investors know that major changes are being made to the Qantas business, but not their details.'

What Woodeneye says above, may possibly come to pass. :hmm:

[Xcel]

Possible good returns from banks and woolworths for the privilege of the tie up??

Otherwise as a reward for flights your right - it is a direct liability with no ability to return on any investment...except increase customer loyalty.

[Sunfish]

The war on mainline will continue. If I were Joyce, I'd be thinking about Karma. Decimating your workforce in favor of cheap overseas contractors implies the dangerous assumption that such people will always be readily available, biddable and cheap.

[walaper]

The most troublesome aspect to todays press club is this is not spin but he truly believes the dribble and ramblings today to be the truth :ugh:

[rodchucker]

Interesting assessment to say the least. International losing money BUT no one asked why? Trashing of brand, over priced product,old aircraft, broken aircraft, no route development only contraction, constant whinging about Govt sponsored airlines etc etc etc.

No one asked why if this was developing over 10 years did no one do anything (Maybe attempt to shift blame to JB???).

Did anyone notice all questions came from the same table???Not sure if this is normal for this venue but not when I have watched previously.My instinct is to smell another rat.

Journos performance was shameful given the issues at play. Maybe the editors should question the value for money of their employees.

[teresa green]

Right on Sherm, and here am I thinking WTF this is around the time..........................

[busboy330]

Rodchucker, this is normal at the press club. That table sits the "professional journalists". The rat you could smell was coming from the one speaking gibberish.

[King William III]

Walaper said
The most troublesome aspect to todays press club is this is not spin but he truly believes the dribble and ramblings today to be the truth

If he truly believes the dribble, why then did he stumble on his words so many times ? :=

[bobhoover]

The other aspect of todays hogwash that disturbed me, was the applause made during the speech after certain comments made. The applause, albeit half-heartedly, no doubt driven by wirthless and her crew, was very out of character from the press club broadcasts I've witnessed in times past. Usually applause was only reserved for the end of the guest speakers' speech and end of question time. I recall once was after AJ announced the RR compensation deal. Does that really warrant applause? Please, spare me

[The The]

Interestingly dear leader said he drove from Melbourne to Sydney during last weeks ash disruptions so as not to take a seat from any disrupted passenger.

Too afraid to ask for the jumpseat? Unwilling to have to share a space with the kamikazes? Worried he might be told some home truths?

[Seabreeze]

Well what a day!

AJ Quote

"Qantas International is the Groups Weakest Business"

To AJ: Well who is the one minding the shop, AJ? Even airlines with higher CASK than Qantas are expanding and making a few bucks (CX, SIA). You want to blame the pilots, engineers etc for the decisions associated with this poor performance do you? The responsibility for the strategy leading to any poor performance is yours and the Board's!

So AJ, What about the cross subsidies from QF international to J*, didn't talk about these heh? (A good topic for analysis).

To the National Press Club Reporters: You NPC reporters are miserably incompetent at asking the difficult questions with only Kelly attempting a half-hearted tough question at the end. Why don't you all p*ss off to England and report on the royals or some other useless past-time.

AJ: It seems to me that you AJ have a clear strategy to de-Australianise the QF workforce. AJ you need to guarantee the jobs will be Australian, (that is Australians employed by Australian companies under an Australian EBA). I choose to fly Qantas with my own money because I will pay more to have an Australian crew. Take that away and I will go elsewhere.

AIPA: any details about foreign crewing should be publicised. If you are going to be targetted as irresponsible in any case, maybe there is little to lose by playing harder ball. If AJ plays the man; then maybe you have to as well.

Ben Sandilands: please keep up the good work, you are the only one asking the hard questions at present.


Seabreeze

[Quill Shaft]

Its time to put the Qantas Sales Act to test me thinks!

Intent has a lot of weight in contract law I believe. What was the intent of the Qantas Sales Act when it was put together all those years ago? Certainly not to offshore the International business:confused:

AIPA & ALAEA should prepare themselves to put the Act to the test come announcements on August 24th!!

[Clipped]

Wasn't the attendance of Andrew 'Twiggy' Forrest of FMG fame seated next to our Livvy, interesting?

Yes, the orchestrated moments of applause made me sick, even the missus asked 'Why are they clapping'?

When AJ was asked to comment on the Virgin/SIA alliance he went onto spruiking our extensive International partners and global network. Yes, that same network that has continually underperformed.

Go figure?

And the share price (investment community, were equally impressed.

[Short_Circuit]

When AJ was asked, after August 24 will there be more or less QANTAS aircraft flying internationally, he turned the clock back 10 years and crapped on about AN and the start of JQ bla bla bla, nothing about post August 24. Why, because the audience would not have stomached what is going to happen. :yuk:

['holic]

Here are some comments from those that pay the bills. Out of 12 pages I don't think I read 1 post that was supportive of AJ or QF management. From the Australian Frequent Flyer forum:

QF CEO speech - dom fare restrucure, profit update, RR settlement, Int Route changes? (http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer-program/qf-ceo-speech-dom-fare-30975.html)

That strategy (If correct,this is News Ltd after all)may well save QF some money,but does it degrade (further?) the QF mainline brand?I think Qantas as a brand is on the way out on the International market.
They seem to want to cut routes and would NEVER want to fly Jetstar Internationally !
This would be a big disappointment for me and would push me to another airline. Simple. It certianly will be a shame if the announcements today are along the lines of transferring more QF routes to JQ. That won't save Qantas International. The further reduction in network and product will hurt the profitability of the international business because there will be even fewer reasons to choose Qantas. I'm not liking the sound of this.

If QF pretty much gets restricted to A380 routes and current 747 routes then I'm well on my way to jumping. Which is a real shame because I'd like to keep a foot in oneworld, and QF is the cheapest way to do so. Otherwise, I may just switch to Star Alliance + Velocity.
I'm looking forward to the plethora of excuses Joyce will come up with to hide the incompetence of QF management, who in my opinion, are responsible for the sad state of the Int'l business. http://b.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif

With that said, not a good sign! I point blank refuse to fly JQ, and if further International Routes are shafted, that may influence my domestic preferences towards VA. http://b.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Nigelinoz http://b.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/images/BP-White/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer-program/qf-ceo-speech-dom-fare-30975-3.html#post452331)
Oh well,at least they are still making a profit,and in the aviation industry that's an achievement in itself,could be so much better though.
If Qantas was an American carrier, sure that's an achievement. Anywhere else - nothing to write home about. Mind you, if Qantas was making a loss, that would be a very good reason to string up Joyce and hang him.

And you are right: it could be so much better. On the merits of Qantas and its potential, profit is not really a problem compared to how it is achieving it at the expense of passenger base, public image and long term resilience. Please don't tell me this means Jetstar is the way to go, i.e. this is the "new airline required for the times". Because you've got to be joking me... Can someone please remind the Qantas CEO that natural disasters and what not are no excuse for not providing an adequate airline with good service?

Trying to cover the veil of "unprofitability" and everything else with complaining about ME competition and fuel costs with the reasons of volcanoes, ash cloud and floods is cheap, cowardly, ineffective, un-Australian and unethical. Let's bring up Ansett and put it in the same sentence as QFhttp://b.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/images/smilies/icon_eek.gifOutsourcing here we come! Perhaps Mr Joycehad his blinkers on around the time of the AN demise.

That was a comedy of errors, starting with TNT/News Corp, ending with NZ buying an airline it couldn't afford to veto SQ, and then ditching AN to save it's own arse.

I dislike Mr Joyce more and more.... Although I've only had a piecemeal feed from the @AusBT Twitter stream, needless to say I'm not impressed by Joyce's rather bland and predictable speech. It really doesn't communicate that he will do anything positive about the whole situation, and just seems like a whole big blame and whine game. There wasn't anything absolutely fair that he said about QF that will remedy its current problems in an active manner.

I truly think that the only way Qantas will drive its international business back up is with ambitious investment into its product, combined with very active drives to improve its basic service (e.g. simple face-to-face interactions). This will certainly cost it money and carry financial risk, but trying to work with what you've got right now is ridiculous, and diverting the responsibility of international carriage to Jetstar is not a fix, that's just a dodge, and a degrading one to the QF image. "Qantas wants to use satellite navigation to shorten flight paths and save tonnes of carbon emissions."

Perhaps I should withhold before jb747 comments on this, but in my immediate opinion more stupid words have not been spoken. NGCI elimanted queues! WTF, when did he last check in! Don't like the sound of this, of late anything from QF which has promised "more benefit" has been bad... QF promises of good always = bad...
If I was a QF shareholder, I'd be doing one of two things
1 - Doing all I could to get Joyce out of the top job...
Failing that
2 - Selling my QF shares...
press club gave AJ a "Gold Card" as a momento of his visit,comment on Twitter I'm sure they'll soon be "enhancing" his privileges back down to the level of silver


http://b.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/images/smilies/icon_lol.gifhttp://b.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/images/smilies/icon_lol.gifHard to speculate on this without a more rigorous breakdown, but wouldn't part of the reason that QFF is so successful be due to a) people flying on QFi and b) people being able to redeem points on QFi? Surely the QFF contribution has to be attributed in some part to the other entities, the loss of which would end up hurting QFF as well? Keep weakening the QF network, and you keep weakening the proposition that is QFF.

Redeeming on JQ is just not the same http://b.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/images/smilies/icon_eek.gifQF international has the wrong fleet(767's needing replacement with new Boeing Dreamliner), the wrong configuration(no first class out of Perth) and the wrong routes(PER-SIN and PER HKG do not work when it is quicker to go to Europe via the middle east.)
I think QF international's biggest problem is its marketing. Does it spend any money on international marketing? I see large 1/4 - full page adverts in the AFR and in the West Australian offering domestic business class service/experience to SYD and MEL from PER but next to nothing about QF international. Firstly IMO to be competitive on the international routes, Qantas has to have a serious look at their fare structures and the cabin service offered to thier paying passengers. I fly to LHR on an annual basis and up till five years ago, I flew with Qantas on every occasion. Regretfully, their fares went up and cabin service declined, hence I now fly with other carriers who's fares and all round service are excellent value. If I was Alan Joyce right now, I would be seriously looking at the positions vacant columns in Saturdays papers. To me, he just doesnt cut the mustard and gives me the feeling that he is way out of his depth.

Great to see he's winning hearts and minds ....

[Jetro6UL]

Ex-Ansett people will remember this line from AJ today, "It's a great airline, but a poor business". Sir Rod said the same before the collapse. I nearly spat my coffee across the room when I heard AJ say it.

Hilarious.

[Level-Headed]

I think it is quite clear now what the lies ahead. I often wondered why do management simply refuse to even talk/negotiate "Job Security clause"? This would simply destroy their strategy to offshore/create a Qantas Asia brand, simple as that. The board together with AJ and who know what other vested interest will not give up and are playing hard ball because they have their eggs in one basket.

It was quite ironic when AJ mentioned that he would like "to be invited 10 years later and ask me how it all went?" Well based on his previous stunts with two failed airlines (Ansett and Air Lingus) he will probably be the CEO of some other carrier doing the same thing whilst watching from the outskirts "Rome burn".

We are at a cross road. We can stand idle and see our careers out-sourced away, our beloved Spirit of Australia become the spirit of Asia all for the gain of a few greedy individuals or we can play hard ball and take a stance and keep Qantas an Australian Based airline providing Jobs for Australians and maintained, flown, catered for by Aussies.

From today's pathetic lack of meaningful questions shown by those supposed to ethically be obliged do so it is clear whose side the majority of the media are on so the only real weapon we have is to remain united as a group.

To me a vote for YES for PIA means I'm taking a stance against a foreign CEO with no understanding or connection with what Qantas means to Aussies and who acknowledges he will not be around for the mess he leaves behind.

[Mr. Hat]

From news.com.au:

Comments on this story
Jboyle Posted at 8:37 AM Today
Qantas, you answer is stop OVER PRICING your fares for certain times of day for longhauls. BA ( British Airways) charges the same prices any time of same day for a flight Sydney - London. Qantas charges multiple prices and is few hundred more $$$ for peak times than BA it's Alliance partner. Work that out !! Apart from arrogant greed, qantas treats flyers with pricing contempt. So I fly BA and Qantas can go jump.
Comment 1 of 23
Craig of Perth Posted at 8:39 AM Today
QANTAS flights are typically more expensive than other operators on the same route, who also provide better service, and QANTAS is losing money? Who's at the financial helm of this woeful organization?
Comment 2 of 23
Barney of Wollongong Posted at 8:43 AM Today
They can start by overhauling their cabin crews on the Syd-LA route. These people have no idea what service is.I gave up flying International with Qantas years ago & I fly this route every month.
Comment 3 of 23
Joe Bloggs Posted at 8:57 AM Today
Speak to the accountants in Qantas - they know why international is losing money - Qantas long haul has been heavily subsidising Jetstar since it was just a thought in Geoff Dixon's head. A truly horrendous conspiracy that has been designed to destroy the 'Qantas' in Qantas.
Comment 4 of 23
Marc of Canberra Posted at 9:31 AM Today
Raise the ticket prices and lower quality of service. Isn't that Qantas' best (and only) way to raise revenue?
Comment 5 of 23
Richie Posted at 10:53 AM Today
I used to fly Qantas but the service is shocking! Many people feel the same but no one cared at the top to make even a small change! Maybe it's time to rip the crop of its own labor.
Comment 6 of 23
Matthew of Mundaring WA Posted at 10:55 AM Today
Stop spending ridiculous amounts of money on auto-check-in and baggage experiments which kill off any human interaction at all, and go back to being just a good full service airline like back in the 70s and 80s where staff and customers are the biggest assets, not broken A380s.
Comment 7 of 23
Flown Qantas too many times before but never again of Virgin Australia 737-800 in the sky Posted at 11:24 AM Today
And so the Jetstarisation of the once proud Qantas brand continues. The national carrier is now the national joke. This is what happens when you promote the former head of your LCC subsidiary to the top job, they bring their existing mindset with them. Maybe if Qantas focused on being competitive for price and service while not continually cutting back the perks of the frequent spender programme that is Qantas Frequent Flyer the travelling public and once loyal customers may give them another chance. Qantas should just hurry up and rebrand all the red 'Roo tails with Jetstar, re-register all their jets in NZ and be done with it. I guess they may just fly the odd occasional international route with a red kangaroo tail just to remind them of what once was and bring a nostalgic tear to their eye.
Comment 8 of 23
Steve Posted at 11:36 AM Today
I'm just waiting for the re-launch of Virgin's Velocity program. I'm hoping (as a Qantas Gold Frequent Flyer) they offer a status match as well. My flights up until the end of August are booked with Qantas. After that I'm becoming a born-again Virgin.
Comment 9 of 23
Will use up FF while I can Posted at 11:44 AM Today
Booked a flight to Japan in November. Cancelled with full refund to due disaster. I needed to phone up 7 times to get my refund. Oh, by the way, the refund came in 4 cheques for 4 people (Cheques!!!). Any oh, yeah, it took only a month for the four cheques to arrive. (It took a button click to grab my funds though).
Comment 10 of 23
Phil of Sydney Posted at 11:53 AM Today
For those commenting on QANTAS pricing, I think the answer was in the article - "UNIONS". They'll do to QANTAS what they did to Australian manufacturing.
Comment 11 of 23
Grant of Melbourne Posted at 11:53 AM Today
I was a gold frequent flyer on my way to plat. 15 years of flying with them - arguing with my boss that despite the cost it was a better airline and paying more. Then something happened to customer service and they started behaving like a cut price airline on international routes and the QC became a nasty place to get a quick snack and a drink. No more upgrades, no more happy staff, no good customer service and the prices kept going up. I would pay more if the service was better. Instead I am just about to go Gold of VAustralia, fly domestic on Virgin Blue, love the new Melbourne Virgin Lounge, love the happy and vibrant international staff (and the domestics staff are also really nice), love the celanliness of the planes and the new 777 layout. Qantas I would come back but you have to up your customer service, pay your staff and clean up your act. We aint cattle! Oh and that new Platinum Plus level annoys the economy passengers coz thats your focus on top of the town and even Platinum flyers - my colleagues - hate the fact that you upped the bar. :(
Comment 12 of 23
DS of Brisbane Posted at 11:57 AM Today
Its simple Qantas is an over priced airline! Im flying to London in August 1st Class and the price is $19,394 verus $12,920 on Emirates. As departing Brisbane you only get plonked in Business class to Asia on Qantas whereas Emirates it luxury all the way! Im flying Emirates. Its common sense. Lower the price of the product and demand will increase!
Comment 13 of 23
Ozaway Posted at 12:08 PM Today
I stopped flying the Roo 10 years ago Asia-Oz Today I actually had a need to book Sin-Syd, then BNE then Bne-Sin. After 5 attempts and the web going back to the start again page I find booking QF is nearly a grand dearer than if I fly MAS or SING and then fly anyone to Brisbane. It is also cheaper to fly Air Asia lie flat beds and take a flight to Sydney,I HAVE GIVEN UP ON QF AGAIN!!!
Comment 14 of 23
jj of adelaide Posted at 12:28 PM Today
Too little too late, the downward spiral is about to hit the ground. Maybe that will open up more routes to the good carriers
Comment 15 of 23
John of Perth Posted at 12:33 PM Today
'International operations are not sustainable' was one interesting statement.
Comment 16 of 23
Archie Posted at 12:39 PM Today
Barney of Wollongong - Try flying United from SYD to LA Service was exactly like the two Hosts from the commedy show Full frontal!
Comment 17 of 23
That'sbusiness Posted at 12:56 PM Today
Qantas, that is business. Learn to take the good with the bad and cut the execs wages down. problem solved. You should have funds in a contingency account that covers these situations, poor money management.
Comment 18 of 23
JG Posted at 12:57 PM Today
Was the grounding of the A380 taken into account and the fact that they are looking at compensation from Rolls Royce?
Comment 19 of 23
Ryan Melrose of Baulkham Hills Posted at 1:12 PM Today
So you've known about this international problem for 15 years, and only now are you starting to deal with it.. That is pathetic. Lets hope we get even more competition in aviation and this company can stop acting like a monopoly.
Comment 20 of 23
Qantas Boi of Melbourne Posted at 1:25 PM Today
This is so sad - Qantas has really lost the spirit of Australia. I am a Qantas fan, however this is just sad. A recent trip to the UK in peak season and there were loads of empty seats in the 747. Qantas is by far the most expensive, and you have Singapore, BA, Emirates and Etihad, even Malaysian that offer a better service for a lesser ticket price for the same travel period. The inflight safety video is so much more relaxed and John Trivolta, please! Qantas is known for its safety world wide, and now the demonstration is so relaxed. Keep that professional image - re market yourself, re launch like then new Virgin Australia campaign. Increase safety standards, re capture that 'spirit'. Retrain your cabin staff to be friendly and assist. Refit the older fleet - comm'on Qantas!!!
Comment 21 of 23
Former FFS Posted at 1:35 PM Today
Looks like Alan Joyce hasn't done much of a job. If he hadn't have scared off many long standing customers he could have done ok maybe. But running an international airlines isn't the job for a penny pinching miser.
Comment 22 of 23
peter of Sydney Posted at 1:41 PM Today
It's been going downhill for some time. Looks like it will continue.
Comment 23 of 23


Read more: Qantas flags $550 million profit despite $200 million hit | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/business/qantas-to-shake-up-longhaul-flights/story-e6frfm1i-1226079666755#ixzz1Q0048MXj)

[ANCDU]

Go on AJ, reduce QF international even further, if you think the airline is in trouble at the moment you will shortly find out how much trouble it is actually in. Qantas international losing $200mill....yeah, right. Without International do you think you would have any FF points, on-carrriage to QF domestic ( and yes unfortunately J*), the list goes on.

Take a step back Allen, look out your window, look at those things out the window with the Roo's on the tail. Yup its an aircraft, part of an Airline...yes an airline! Time you started running the buisiness like one. Oh yeah, and your paycheck says Qantas too, thought i better remind you.

[Budfox]

Guys is it just me or would anyone agree with me that taking Qantas aka Jetstar into Asias backyard is a setup for failure.
SIA would be salivating at the prospect of the orange cancer trying to battle against them with their deep pockets and superior knowledge knowledge of how to run an airline. They may get a chance to not only see Qantas fail with the bread and butter flying in Australia that has kept Qantas running for decades, but they may just crush Qantas hopes in their own backyard right in front of them.
Seriously I just cant see Jetstar taking on the big boys in Asia and winning long term :suspect:
Jetstar Vietnam springs to mind about how successful things are going over there :ugh:
Good luck AJ, keep a sword close to your side cause your going to fall on it very shortly when the domino effect starts.
Utter disgrace to see what is happening and national icon get destroyed. :sad:

[QFinsider]

It has always been to privatise profits and socialise losses..

this is a very Clifford script. A very right wing neo-conservative born to rule script.

No one at the NPC would say boo..Bury their nose in the trough, notch up FF points and ask soft questions..

We may lose, but if we do nothing we are already gone.

[Ultergra]

Time for PIA. If we do nothing, we're gone.. If we undertake PIA we're probably gone also!

My view is that QF wont be able to sustain it for long AT ALL! We are all here on pprune saying that we know Qantas is propping up the business, so lets hit them where it hurts, mainline. PIA is the best way to hit their bottom dollar, hit their finacial bank that helps J* Viet and Jitconnect and Jetstar.

Put your money where you mouth is.

[Keg]

Today you saw why AJ has been hacking off the pilots, TWU and LAMEs. It's so we can be used as the excuse to off shore the farm. When it all gets announced in August, the PIA that will have been underway will be used as the reason why QF has to do what it intends to do.

AIPA and the ALAEA may as well cancel all negotiations until after August 24. I'm sure that QF pilots will still do PIA but it will be the low key, non disruptive stuff for the next couple of months until we know what they have planned.

Oh, I also liked how AJ STILL tells lies about AIPA's claims.

[stubby jumbo]

Did any one else hear one of the many AJ mispronunciations:

He used......"APIA" :yuk: (Australian Pensioners Insurance Agency) in lieu of "AIPA".

His ability to lie,spin and bamboozle has no bounds.

TOTAL AMATEUR

[Compylot]

Well at least someone liked what he had to say;


"Most managers are regarded as being competent when their business is travelling well, but to deliver such a result in light of the circumstances hitting Qantas outside of management control shows why Alan Joyce was chosen for the top job," said City Index analyst Peter Esho.


Joyce flags overhaul after Qantas profit forecast - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/22/3250444.htm?section=justin)

Discuss.

[limelight]

Guys,

The ONLY way this agenda can be changed is to get a shareholder revolt.

You need significant stockholders on board.

Otherwise, you are lost. Look at Fosters, had the beer world in their hands, and due to inept management lost the lot.

Start contacting them, your last chance.

[teresa green]

So fella's where to from here? Our beloved roo is in deep S$it, and frankly so are the pilots, and to a lesser extent the engineers. Yet without either there is no airline. If you strike, you play into his hands, (you heard him today buttering up the press) and if you don't your job security is up to sh%t. The relentless march is on to cut wages, standards, and to slowly but surely become a part of the Asian hub, with the same standards and wages they have. 90 yrs and we come to this. I never thought I would say this but this is more serious than 89, (1300 flying jobs) and the demise of Ansett.( It really pissed me off when he said it was poor management, bollocks, Ansett bled to death). I am buggered if I can see a answer, other than a new CEO (preferably Australian) with more of a sense of whats important to Australians, who recognises you don't mess with a icon like QF, it ain't done. Over to you fellas.

[Jack Ranga]

The show is being repeated at 4:54am on ABC1 for those who missed it.

[Nudlaug]

YouTube - National Press Club Address - Alan Joyce Qantas CEO

[What The]

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/demotivators/consultingdemotivationalposter.jpg



from Demotivators® - View All Demotivational Posters (http://www.despair.com/viewall.html)

I am sure we could start a new thread from this website.

And one for Alana and Lee

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/demotivators/legacydemotivationalposter.jpg

[chockchucker]

Bring on the PIA. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

[1me]

People.. AJ doesn't care about the "iconic" status of Qantas. He doesn't share the spirit and he never will because he isn't Australian. He doesn't get the culture of Australia: to stand up for your mates; to dig in when times get tough; to face adversity head on and find some way, any way to overcome; to get puched in the guts by a harsh land or circumstance and have to start again.. It is a travesty that the same can't be said of the other members of the board. If anyone should have understood these principles I'd have thought that Peter Cosgrove would. But Alas! Silence.

Those early blokes made a way when there was no way. They had vision and belief and tenacity. They laid a platform that successive generations have built upon. A couple of blokes and an Avro. Who'd have thought....?

90 years of excellence, both in the air, and on the ground rests on a knife edge. This is no coincidence..

[Sunfish]

Ansett died because the innards had been ripped out of the airline by successive waves of cost cutting.

It then reached the point where it could not demonstrate to the regulator that it was maintaining aircraft in accordance with its own system of maintenance.

In other words its Ansetts aircraft were unsafe to fly as they were no longer airworthy.

Is that what AJ really meant?

[gobbledock]

My favorite line from 'Dear Leader' was 'Its a great airline but a bad business'...
If that is the case, that Qantas is a bad business, then perhaps the past and present management group should return all bonuses and incentive payments for lets say the past 10 years ? And the current management team should be immediately removed seeing that they are running a poor business. I do believe the shareholders should be concerned that their hard earned investment sits within the palms of somebody who does not even believe that he even runs a good business ?
The references to AN are interesting. It was Management decisions that ultimately caused the death of AN and it would appear eerily that the same levels of incompetence are at play at Qantas. After all AJ, some 'known faces', and some 'behind the scenes ex AN faceless men' are now running the Qantas ship.
This story will not have a happy ending.

[SilverSleuth]

I have always said that joyce is almost hoping the pilots would go on strike. It arms him with more ammunition to do what he wants, and that is obvious.
He wants mainline on lower wages no matter what. Whether it is by choice, opening an asian division or rebranding jetstar down the line.
I feel for the Q guys and gals as I really don't what you can do to stop it. When someone is willing to see something go down to start a fresh, then what an you do? good luck to you all.

[busboy330]

Who's up for writing "The Men Who Killed QANTAS: Part Two be sure, two be sure"?

http://www.randomhouse.com.au/Books/THE-MEN-WHO-KILLED-QANTAS (http://www.randomhouse.com.au/Books/THE-MEN-WHO-KILLED-QANTAS/9781741668919/Trade-Paperback/)

[noip]

This might have brightened up the address:

Worker replaces CEO Presentation with Porn (http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/06/22/hacker-ceo-presentation-porn/)


N

[Howard Hughes]

Was up early this morning and watched the full replay on ABC.

As an outsider I can't believe that International is not profitable. On my only flight recently (so I admit it's not a good sample), the aircraft had 66 J class seats and all were full! Of course they all could have been frequent (sic) flyers from Woolies propping up the company...:rolleyes:

The man sure is a purveyor of doom and gloom even with a $550 million profit in uncertain times you would have thought someone had just died.

The one bright light (I thought) was the forcast for growth within Qantas domestic and increasing airframes, that is good news for the guys/gals at the pointy end.

Keep fighting the good fight!:ok:

PS: Was that Sunfish who asked one of the questions?:E

[WoodenEye]

You've hit the nail on the head SliverSlueth.

I fear that your comment is a sad, but true statement that no amount of industrial action will make go away.

Elsewhere in the world, really committed employees have faced similar circumstances and chosen to meet the challenge by sacrificing salary to become majority shareholders.

Any such action is no doubt quiet risky. Nonetheless, the overall difference between Qantas and Jetstar employment costs would be more than enough to mount an employee lead takeover.

Personally I would have no problem sacrificing 15% of my salary for equity that would ultimately give the Qantas Employee Group the opportunity to chart a new course.

But hey! That’s only me and unless just about all pilots and engineers miraculously came to share my view- it just isn’t going to happen.

[dr dre]

theres been some speculation on this topic on these forums so this might present a little more knowledge for the readers

On top of his $2 million of fixed annual remuneration, Joyce has the potential to earn a short-term cash bonus of $2.4 million. Hardly a lot when compared with a banker, but a good deal better than a pilot.
The short-term bonus is based 65 per cent on underlying profit before tax performance and the rest on a series of measures ranging from safety, punctuality, customer services and unit cost reduction.


Read more: Wanted returns? Well, you got them (http://www.smh.com.au/business/wanted-returns-well-you-got-them-20110622-1gffg.html#ixzz1Q3AMtDOo)

but hey if GD got 11mil for 5 months work AJ must be a bargain then?

[gobbledock]

This might have brightened up the address:
Worker replaces CEO Presentation with Porn (http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/06/22/hacker-ceo-presentation-porn/)

Gold.
Perhaps someone should have hacked into the and replayed the nauseating footage of Darth and Marge almost dry rooting with excitement after the 'failed' takeover bid ?

[King William III]

Woodeneye,

me too, and don't bet against it happening!!:ok:

[castrol]

AJ walks into a cafe with a duck under his arm.

Cashier says: "Why you bring the spine-less imbecile in here".

AJ says: "It's not a spine-less imbecile....it's just a duck".

Cashier says: "I was talking to the duck".

:ok:

[King William III]

If Qantas International has only made a profit 3 times in 15 years, and those profits aren't worth the losses in between it begs two questions;

1 - Why has it taken 15 years to do something about it?
2 - Why did Geoff Dixon, Peter Greg, Alan Joyce etc take millions and millions in wages for NOT fixing the problem?
3 - Why do the big institutions not ask THEIR own analysts WTF?



And I have a question for Mr Joyce,

- If all the work Qantas International staff do on/for Jetstar was ACTUALLY billed to Jetstar, and Jetstar were actually paying QF International to use QF's A330's…..how much money would QF International be making?

Oh, and another one……

How many QF passengers are popped into Jetstar 'code-share' seats and the money passed to Jetstar….yes Alan, that's another of your tricks, we're onto you!!

Time to start looking for a new job…you might not be the one making the announcement on August 24!!!


and to FedSec……probably too late to add it to the PIA but perhaps Jetstar should be off-limits for QF LAME's? It would cripple them!

[Sunfish]

We seem to be operating on the old mantra:

"If it ain't broke, break it, and then fix it."

[1a sound asleep]

The biggest problem is QF for many years had the market almost to itself. If you wanted to go to many places there was only 2 or 3 main choices, and loyal Australians supported Qantas.

Then came along a little airline called Emirates. Qantas sat on its hands and watched.:ugh: Now the choice to go to almost anywhere in Europe is a one stop via Dubai. Seriously who is going to want to SYD-SIN-LHR-FCO when its cheaper and faster SYD-DXB-FCO

Yes blame past QF for not doing anything. :ok: The idiots could have made a hub in Darwin and flown non-stop to almost any where in Europe from Australia, trumping any other airline.:ok:

Apart from being inept Alan Joyce is just covering up past mistakes. And imagine of the Jetstar and Qantas fleet was combined - what a formidable force that would be. I wouldnt even care if there was 5 classes on board and stick the bogans in the last 10 rows:}

[Ngineer]

King Wiliam!! What a shame there was no-one with enough knowledge or tenacity to raise such points at this so-called "club"!!

Considering the age and history of the International business, I find the remarks that it failed to make a profit in the reported number of years very hard to swallow.

[What The]

I heard a rumour that Gareth Evans actually had a document which showed the costs Qantas was carrying on behalf of Jetstar. It has mysteriously disappeared. Someone should track it down.

[1a sound asleep]

Could they be doing this elsewhere to make QF Int look bad, maybe expsenses from Jetstar onto the Qantas Int bottom line?

So some poor pax gets stuck on JQ going CNS-BNE to connect to LAX all bought on a QF ticket I wonder how much JQ gets for the domestic portion - probably not $89 and likely full Y fare.

How much did JQ pay QF for the rights on all the abandoned QF routes - zipp?

JQ should be paying millions to use the Qantas Group name on their planes. Just like Virgin pays SRB to use his brand name

How much does JQ pay for the back of house QF expertise and management - again nothing.

How much does JQ pay to lease the QF A330 - I guarantee its not full market rates.

No way JQ can be hugely profitable selling $199 flights to NRT and $49 MEL-SYD

It's all about creating smoke screens, illusions and perceptions to justify the existence of that horrible nasty orange disease

EDIT - Where did all the compensation for the late 787 deliveries go? Straight to JQ's bottom line????????

[The The]

The Sydney Morning Herald summed it up nicely:


COULD it be that Jetstar has become the airline world's version of the cuckoo? A bird that is always short of time, the cuckoo lays an egg in another species' nest before scarpering. Not surprisingly, given its parent's demeanour, the oversized offspring has some nasty habits of its own.

Once hatched, it systematically ejects the other eggs in the nest, thereby enjoying the complete devotion of its adoptive parents, who appear oblivious to the fact that their fledgling bears no resemblance to any other bird in the neighbourhood



Read more: A great airline, but a lousy business (http://www.smh.com.au/business/a-great-airline-but-a-lousy-business-20110622-1gfdx.html#ixzz1Q3yXJ3fv)

[DirectAnywhere]

Never before have I seen change so appallingly managed. Alan Joyce makes Geoff Dixon look like a babe in the woods when it comes to disenfranchising, disengaging and depressing his frontline staff.

What sort of manager (and I use the term very loosely) makes an announcement foreshadowing probable job cuts associated with further outsourcing and offshoring and then says, "Oh, but you'll have to wait another two months for any details!"?

"Oh, and then we will have to wait until Lesley Grant reports back later this year to give you the next thrilling installment in the drama that has become your working life."

Mr Joyce the people who work for you have families, mortgages and lives outside Qantas. Those people are now concerned for their capacity to provide for the people in their lives who really matter - and that's not you nor is it, at the moment, the shareholders.

All the discussion upline last night was about yesterday's announcement including a young pilot who was concerned about their ability to provide for their newborn child.

So your staff now have to wait at least two months to see whether the Sword of Damocles falls on them. You reckon this will be a significant distraction from their primary task of getting your aeroplanes safely from A to B? You bet it will.

[1A_Please]

What is amazing about AJ's performance is how content he seems to be disengaging his staff. JB comes to VA, which probably has as many problems, but quickly engages his staff by showing he has a plan, he is in it for the long haul and he recognises that he cannot deliver without the entire business being behind the plan. AJ is the opposite.

The constant drip-drip of consultants' reports and rounds of redundancies will do nothing to improve morale. AJ needs to deliver his plan, implement it and let the business settle. I was involved in AN in its dying days and the constant rounds of spills and fills moving through the levels of management was a massive distraction and only served to make sure the good people left as soon as they could. I assume the same is now happening at QF.

[teresa green]

I would truly love just 5 mins with the goose that let JB go, even if it was JB's call, I would have offered him a block of flats to stay. Whoever you are, thank you for the continuing disaster that has beset Qantas. You are a idiot of mammoth proportions. :=

[Sunfish]

AJ is sending you a "meta message" - an unspoken message that is implicit in what he has actually done.

By saying that "there are more changes coming in Two months" but not identifying what they are, who they will affect and how the change will be managed, Alan Joyce is deliberately ****ting in his employees faces.

I am sorry for the crudity, but Joyce is deliberately increasing his employees stress levels, because nobody likes change when it is applied to themselves, nobody likes uncertainty in their prospects and furthermore, since Joyce must know that what he did will injure his employees sense of self worth because he refuses to take them into his confidence, he is sending a message that his opinion of the employees affected is that they are scum whose feeling sdo not need to be taken into account: - "you will be informed in due course how we are going to destroy your career" is the message.

I was taught first in B school and later in the IT industry that there are Two dimensions to change management - speed (either slow or quick) and consultation ( either none or full ).

If your business is hemorrhaging cash, then you do a "quick and dirty" restructure. People get the pink slip Friday afternoon and are told don't come Monday. On Monday morning the CEO apologises for the shock and distress the action has caused, explains why it was absolutely necessary and promise that it won't happen again and that peoples jobs are safe.

If you need to restructure but have the time, or must make the time, then you do a "Slow and clean" restructure. You tell your workforce what has to happen, why it has to happen, who it must happen to and when it has to happen. You then start a process (consultants can do this in their sleep) of consultation, information sessions, offers of voluntary redundancies, bans on recruitment in other parts of the company and relocation of surplus staff into new positions there, you also offer career counseling and provide time off for, and assistance with, job seeking.

The other alternatives are totally unattractive. The "Quick and clean" option - walking out the door with a bucket of money so large you never work again is only available to executives.

But the absolute worst reorganization is the "slow and dirty" strategy that it appears Qantas has adopted. It sends all the wrong messages because it basically tells the staff that management has contempt for them by doing nothing to minimize the pain and distress reorganisation always causes.

To put it another way, Joyce should not have telegraphed the reorganization of International, he should have shut up about it completely or taken the affected staff into his confidence. He did neither.

Furthermore, it appears the Qantaslink management in Brisbane have adopted the same strategy, taking a leaf out of the bosses book.

I've been part of Four restructures over the years, One as victim, One as facilitator and Two as architect.

[fishers.ghost]

Quote in entirety :
…
'
I would suggest not only is it highly desirable to have “a well trained, rested, well paid Qantas jock up front – Not a kid who’s overtired, undertrained, and under servitude to an airline”, its absolutely essential. Anybody care to be operated on by the cheapest surgeon money can buy?

In the overall breakdown of airline costs, having well trained, experienced and accordingly, well remunerated professionals in the Cockpit does not add significant burden to the bottom line. Joyce’s ‘vision’ to employ poorly remunerated (and hence bottom of the barrel standards-wise) pilots (compared to world standards) working under the most onerous conditions will most probably result in a very negative impact to the bottom line – ie hull loss (with associated loss of life and complete destruction of Qantas’ reputation, something Joyce seems hell bent on pursuing).

I watched the entire Press Club presentation by Joyce and cannot agree that his speech and sentiments were “excellent” – quite the opposite really on all but a few points.

His proclamations about the resounding success of Jetstar in Asia (hence giving credence to his poorly concealed intention to go-ahead with the new full service entity) ignores the fact that Jetstar Asia has lost over half a Billion dollars since inception and Jetstar Pacific is an absolute basket case. It would also be very difficult to believe that Jetstar International has had a particularly good year considering events in Japan and NZ. The subsidisation of Jetstar in general is common knowledge (and obviously that has to come off some part of the business’ bottom line).

Has Joyce’s management team demonstrated any capability to ‘pull off’ this new full service carrier in someone else’s backyard? The last two experts he sent to Vietnam ended up under house arrest for the best part of 6 months (and the airline is still a mess). He continually harped on about the demise of Ansett yet most of his executive team were part of the Ansett executive when it failed. Hardly a rock solid pedigree.

A positive note was Qantas’ proactive approach to pursuing the facts regarding the threat posed by the volcanic ash cloud (by engaging specialists and specialist equipment). Its a pity he doesn’t take this approach to the rest of the business (ie deal in fact, not rubbery figures and rubbery logic to engineer a Human Resources outcome).

Finally, I thought his statement about driving to Canberra vice displacing a customer was craven rather than noble. Here was a perfect opportunity for Joyce to take a jumpseat in the cockpit and actually talk to his staff (particulalrly his pilots) and get some feedback from the ‘horse’s mouth’. Instead, at great expense to the company (considering how much this guy is paid per minute) he took the chauffeur driven limousine to avoid contact with his own staff.

Cowardly if you ask me.


http://qlhccforum.forumbuild.com/images/spacer.gif

[ruprecht]

Mr Joyce the people who work for you have families, mortgages and lives outside Qantas. Those people are now concerned for their capacity to provide for the people in their lives who really matter - and that's not you nor is it, at the moment, the shareholders.

All the discussion upline last night was about yesterday's announcement including a young pilot who was concerned about their ability to provide for their newborn child.

So your staff now have to wait at least two months to see whether the Sword of Damocles falls on them.

... and that is exactly how Oldmeadow and Kearns want you to feel.

I'm sure at the top of their whiteboard is the phrase "Maintain fear and confusion", because if you can do that, you can get people to do anything...

[Sonny Hammond]

Does WK work for oldmeadow?

[airtags]

It was a shameful And poorly written/delivered monologue packed full Of arrogance. Fail

Fail on the international announcement that stiffed the employees

and a massive fail to the journos. Z grade questions that clearly showed no prep work

My view anyway

AT

[noip]

Sonny,

Does WK work for oldmeadow?

No. ............................

N

[maggot]

Fishers ghost: linky pls!

[packrat]

Joyce's speech yesterday is going to filed in the Qantas Archive under "F"

[noip]

M

Qantas to totally restructure its international division | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/06/22/joyce-gives-clues-to-major-surgery-on-qantas-international-operations/)

KB stars .... unfortunately for him his sarcasm is only matched by his ignorance.

oh,

ok

Ken, I'll tell you how AJ could have travelled on the Flight deck ML-CB.



He asks the ground staff if he can speak to the Captain.
He asks the Captain if he can travel on the flight deck to an appointment in CB, showing his ASIC.
Captain then has the choice.


Done.

N

I feel better now.


PS ... hey ... holic? (short term memory loss) .... didn't mean to spoil it ... great minds think alike .... :)

[fishers.ghost]

The commentary Qantas CEO Alan Joyce gave yesterday concerning the restructuring of its international services means August 24, when all is revealed, will be a flag lowering day, a bloody day, with the loss of experienced pilot jobs and a retreat from poorly performing routes after what he promised would be a review made with ‘ruthless but honest’ eyes.
If ‘honesty’ is at play in these decisions, much more detail is required.
Just how much has the claimed poor performance of an airline Australians expect to service their links to the world been a consequence of gifting jets and other benefits from the full service brands to the Jetstar brands?
How much of it has been poor fleet and route decisions, which have seen Australians choosing faster and easier trips on other carriers, even if, as sometimes happens, they pay Emirates, Singapore Airlines or other competitors slightly more for their services?
Surely it has cost hundreds of millions of dollars more than the $200 million Joyce predicts Qantas international will lose in the year to June 30, a situation so bad he says it threatens the very existence of Qantas as a group.
It is rare for Qantas to reveal the performance of its passenger carrying brands in isolation from each other.
Investors are told how much the so called ‘loyalty’ program makes from selling frequent flyer points to people selling petrol, groceries and or running card programs, but as a matter of policy, the actual figures for Qantas domestic, Qantaslink, Qantas international, and the Jetstar franchises, are mix mastered into a blend as commercial-in-confidence.
But not yesterday. At a National Press Club luncheon at which reporters asked the most obsequious and feeble questions Joyce has probably faced in his career, he said the overseas full service operation would loose $200 million on a $5 billion investment.
While the cross subsidisation of Jetstar by Qantas is a zero sum game for investors, it is also the dark matter that distorts the visible Qantas universe.
When investors, and government, and employees, are told that Jetstar is the highly profitable growth engine of Qantas group operations, they are kept in ignorance as to how well Jetstar and the full service brands would perform if billions of dollars worth of Airbuses, much of their fuel, and some of the maintenance, training and other costs of Jetstar were reported on a divisional basis, rather than blended into a mystery pudding.
These figures are also important because without them, the slaughter that is coming to Qantas long haul cannot be truly assessed by the investment community as a brilliant strategy, or as a potential disaster for the Qantas brand and its future.
Whatever the fiscal truth about Jetstar, and there is no denying its success in winning low fare customers (but discouraging higher yielding passengers) it is not a $10 million dollar seed capital venture like Virgin Blue, which took and kept more than 30 per cent of the domestic market.
Instead, Jetstar has been a massively costly exercise for Qantas. A very successful exercise, but one lacking in transparency in terms of the relative performances of all the Qantas divisions if their costs and assets are fully accounted for.
How real is the $200 million loss for Qantas international? Not only is that under a cloud, but so are management decisions that would easily account for that $200 million in botched fleet decisions, uncompetitive product, and appalling network and schedule strategies.
It is almost as if Qantas international has been robbed of assets and set up to fail.
Qantas is considering a number of international options. Its impending embrace of more joint business ventures with other carriers is widely admired in other markets where it has been used to deliver benefits to investors and consumers alike. It is precisely what Virgin Australia is doing with its ventures with Singapore Airlines, Etihad, Delta Airlines and Air New Zealand.
However going on recent decisions, those deals only get regulatory approval in Australia and abroad if there is a guarantee by the parties to maintain existing capacity, rather than reduce their combined operations.
The other card Qantas has showed is the off-shoring of activities in which a controlled or financed subsidiary based in Singapore, or Kuala Lumpur, or perhaps Shanghai, takes over some of the flying Qantas does to and from Australia at lower wages and conditions, as well as participating in traffic originating in the region hosting the enterprise.
This comes with risks on a scale comparable to those Qantas is seeking to retire by quitting some of its loss making Australian based long haul flying.
Two things may happen to Australian forays into strongly defended Asian markets. They may get eaten alive by the established national competitors, whether breweries, or factories, or distributors, or airlines, or eaten alive by them as supposedly equal partners in a common venture.
Qantas has already revealed its hand in relation to flying costs at Jetstar, proposing a labor sharing arrangement in which pilots from its Asia based and New Zealand franchises could also be shifted into Australia for duty tours, for the terms and conditions under which they are employed in their home countries.
The emphasis Qantas is placing on solving its international underperformance is good. But are the answers rigged?

[teresa green]

Ben, you are not interested in a job are you?

[DirectAnywhere]

Ruprecht, I know that is clearly the intention of Oldmeadow and exco.

The problem this time I think is that they've overplayed their hand. So many staff are so pissed off at the moment they frankly no longer give a rat's. We are at the stage where we are willing to do whatever it takes to make life as difficult as possible for exco over the next few months and consequences be damned.

Seems to be nothing left to lose my friend.

[ejectx3]

Please tell me Ben didn't spell "lose" as "loose".
On top of the demise of Qantas I couldn't take that...
Please say it isn't so...

[ruprecht]

I hear you DA; I'm in there with you!:hmm:

[Jack Ranga]

I propose we give Ben Sandilands a spelling & grammar moritorium in recognition of his contribution to aviation in Australia

[ejectx3]

Crisis averted. I checked the original article and it was mis-spelt in translation. Phew...I can rest easy.

(and now it has been edited out)

[Traffic]

I couldn't agree more with most of the comments...but I will try.

Having just listened to the address in full, all I can say is that both AJ and the whole board are delusional.

AJ talks about the various components of the Qantas Group. He gives numbers on some of them but is clearly unwilling to break out the cost structure for Jetstar for fear of exposing the fallacy of his arguments.

To claim that Jetstar Asia is a successful business is not only wrong, it is materially misleading to investors. To think that QF can set up a full-service carrier based in Asia is just a nonsense. Who in their right mind would put up the 51% of equity required for less than 90% of the control. Traffic rights were not mentioned at all.

I thought the Press Club were there to expose such ineptitude, instead they lay out saucers of cream.

The King hath no clothes.

Pla ar do theach!

[noip]

Given that I know that AJ's rantings about the pilots and engineers were false, and that I know that his motivation is to paint Mainline QF in the worst possible light, then I am left with the conclusion that the remainder of his speech to the NPC was false also.

N

[porch monkey]

The only reason he wouldn't have asked for the jump seat is he well knows the crew would've told him to f@ck off in no uncertain terms. Quite a difference from his opposition, who is almost universally invited to take the seat, and actively engages with the crew.

[mcgrath50]

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/newsradio/audio/20110622-pilots.mp3

A response from AIPA

[gobbledock]

From todays Australian

JETSTAR is celebrating its seventh birthday with a two-for-one sale that allows customers to take a friend free. Jetstar says it has sold more then 90 million seats in seven years, including 32 million for under $100 and 6 million for under $50.
BB must be so proud to see his little airline growing. And the under $100 and $50 fares must certainly be adding a quality return to the coffers.

[regitaekilthgiwt]

AJ and the whole board are delusional

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Ruprecht, I know that is clearly the intention of Oldmeadow and exco.

The problem this time I think is that they've overplayed their hand. So many staff are so pissed off at the moment they frankly no longer give a rat's. We are at the stage where we are willing to do whatever it takes to make life as difficult as possible for exco over the next few months and consequences be damned.

Seems to be nothing left to lose my friend.

Agreed DA and Ruprecht. I have already asked my better half where else she would like to live in the world because if this doesn't work out I sure as hell am not giving my services to a mob like Jetstar..

Everyone,
Support AIPA, they are our voice, with unity we might just survive this very dark chapter in Qantas history.

[jupiter2]

Disappointing to hear Alan Joyce make a quote directly from Rod Eddington in his speech exclaiming that....

"Qantas is a great airline but a poor business".

He just embellished Eddington's speech by substituting the name "Ansett" for "Qantas" in the same statement.

Got anything original for us to work with Al?

[victor two]

I personally think that Joyce is doing a fantastic job of keeping qantas profitable and competitive in a time of massive challenges. Instead of this mindless complaining and bleating, none of which is supported with rational argument, You blubbering cry babies, and i am talking about both aircrew and those teary eyed dropkicks in engineering, should collectively pucker up and kiss his Irish backside for keeping you in a secure job as half of you would be unemployable anywhere else! Seriously, you would be at macdonalds serving burgers or driving cabs for an Indian boss if he was a lesser manager. Get over yourselves!

[skylarker]

I personally think that Joyce is doing a fantastic job of keeping qantas profitable and competitive in a time of massive challenges. Instead of this mindless complaining and bleating, none of which is supported with rational argument, You blubbering cry babies, and i am talking about both aircrew and those teary eyed dropkicks in engineering, should collectively pucker up and kiss his Irish backside for keeping you in a secure job as half of you would be unemployable anywhere else! Seriously, you would be at macdonalds serving burgers or driving cabs for an Indian boss if he was a lesser manager. Get over yourselves!

Nice one AJ :ok:

[Sunfish]

So Qantas International has only earned an acceptable return for Three out of the last Fifteen years according to Alan Joyce.....


...Yet the Board, at managements recommendation, decided to buy Twenty Airbus A380 to be operated by the loss making part of the airline???

..And continues to do so?

- If QF International was making a loss, I would cancel the orders for A380's right now and close the business.

Something smells about Joyces statements

[73to91]

If Qantas International has only made a profit 3 times in 15 years, and those profits aren't worth the losses in between ................;


Year 2010 less 15 years = 1995 according to my calculator, so a little searcing shows:
1997

By fiscal 1997, Qantas was solidly in the black, achieving net profits of AUD 252.7 million ($190.1 million) on revenues of AUD 7.83 billion ($5.89 billion). Qantas Airways Ltd. -- Company History (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Qantas-Airways-Ltd-Company-History.html)
2000

Net profit after tax of A$517.9 million, up A$97 million, (23%)
About Qantas - Investors - Full Year Results - 1999/00 (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2000/global/en)
2001
Profit after tax of A$415.4 million, down A$101.9 million or 19.7% About Qantas - Investors - Full Year Results - 2000/01 (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2001/global/en)
2002
Net profit of A$428.0 million About Qantas - Our Company - Full Year Results - 2001/02 (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2002/global/en)
2003
Profit before tax of A$502.3 millionAbout Qantas - Investors - Full Year Results - 2002/03 (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2003/global/en)
2004
Net profit after tax of A$648.4 million About Qantas - Investors - Full Year Results - 2003/04 (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2004/global/en)
2005

Net profit after tax of $763.6 million
About Qantas - Investors - Full Year Results - 2004/05 (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2005/global/en)
2006
Net profit after tax of A$480 million http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2006/global/en (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2006/global/en)

profits are down 30 per cent to $479.5 million
7.30 Report - 17/08/2006: Changes ahead for Qantas after profit drop (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2006/s1717731.htm)
2007
Net profit after tax of $720 million http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2007/global/en (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2007/global/en)
2008 - A record profit
Net profit after tax of $970 million http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2008/global/en (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2008/global/en)
2009
Net profit after tax of A$123 million http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2009/global/en (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2009/global/en)
2010
Underlying Profit Before Tax (PBT) of $377 million Full Year Results (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/investors-full-year-results-2010/global/en)



All those profits and only 3 times did 'International' contribute, is this little man telling little Irish lies?

[T80]

You and me both rep !
Dreams and inspirations have been wrecked very quickly, am no longer
interested in working for the sinking rat. :(
Better start packing my bags and taking skills and experience overseas away from this cesspool.
Anyone got that number for Truck Master ?:p

[stewser89]

Is the AIPA really pushing the job security clause to have Jetstar pilots paid the same as Qantas pilots?

If so they truly are living on another planet.

[Jack Ranga]

If I were both of you I'd be applying to Qantas. This gormless fool wont be there much longer.

It wont be long before the institutions demand to see the books, they wont be complicit in spreading the lies to entice investors. His lies will filter into the public domain before too long.

[Capt_SNAFU]

Stewer89 the short and long answer is NO.

[chockchucker]

Is the AIPA really pushing the job security clause to have Jetstar pilots the same as Qantas pilots?


No, not correct. My understanding is that they want Qantas Pilots to fly Qantas aircraft. That is the crux of the job security clause they want in their EBA.


Jetstar Pilots should also be asking for the same thing given what is happening with Asian based Jetstar crews flying an increasing amount of hours around Oz.



Don't believe anything that comes out of the mouth of Joyce, Buchanan, or Wirth. It's all just a sideshow to distract people from what they're really up to.

[stewser89]

That what I thought. But im pretty sure that AJ said that three times during his little press speech and the Q nA that followed.

Of course it makes the Aipa look out of touch by him saying that.

[ejectx3]

I'll set the joke up....

How can you tell when Alan Joyce is lying?

[BoatsNHos]

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/newsradi...622-pilots.mp3

A response from AIPA

Excellent interview. Concise and the point with the key messages repeated. Well done Captain Woodward! Keep it up. :ok:

[clotted]

Quote:
Is the AIPA really pushing the job security clause to have Jetstar pilots the same as Qantas pilots?

No, not correct. My understanding is that they want Qantas Pilots to fly Qantas aircraft. That is the crux of the job security clause they want in their EBA.


Are you sure? The people I talk to tell me that the claim says that all Qantas Group company pilots must be paid under their EBA or T & C's no less than that.


On the other hand all spruiking from the pilot's union is that a Qantas flight should be flown by a Qantas pilot. A Qantas flight is not always a Qantas aircraft. A Qantas codeshare on a Jetstar aircraft is a Qantas flight as are many others.

[What The]

The people you talk to are wrong.

You cannot dictate terms of other EBA's through your EBA. What you can determine is the rate at which the company employs people to do your job. In this case it is on terms no less than the current Qantas Pilots EBA. If it is no cheaper to try to undermine you by setting up external contracts like Jetconnect then why would you bother?

[Shark Patrol]

Is the AIPA really pushing the job security clause to have Jetstar pilots paid the same as Qantas pilots?

The answer to your question is that AIPA's job security claim is for flights with a Qantas flight number to be flown by pilots on T&Cs no worse than Qantas T&Cs.

Therefore, if Qantas want to codeshare a flight with Jetstar, then the pilots of that flight should be paid Qantas T&Cs. If Qantas DO NOT codeshare on a Jetstar flight, the Jetstar pilots would be on their existing conditions. So the cliam is to essentially stop Qantas transferring more and more flights onto a Jetstar codeshare and effectively have people who have paid for a Qantas ticket being flown by pilots on Jetstar conditions.

Of course this doesn't suit the leprechaun and his cronies so he will misrepresent it whatever way that he can. Since the public have the attention span of a gnat, and the journalists have the intelligence of a house-brick, this point is being lost.

Sadly, it is easier for Qantas to present simple LIES through their paid-for media outlets than it is for AIPA to spread a more complicated truth!

[Capt_SNAFU]

Shark patrol should say codesharing with a group airline not external airlines like BA etc.. From what I understand is that the enforcement of this would be negotiable.

[speeeedy]

Here is the actual claim:

c.1 All Qantas flights will be operated by Crew either:
(a) covered by this Agreement; or
(b) on terms and conditions no less favourable than if they had been covered by this Agreement.

c.3 c.1 does not apply to codeshare operations operated by entities that are not members of the Qantas Group provided that they are not undertaken by aircraft that display on their livery any of the following:
(i) The word 'Qantas'; or
(ii) All or part of the marks displayed at Schedule "C" to this agreement provided that minor or cosmetic changes to such marks will also apply.

c.4 For the purpose of this clause, terms and conditions are no less favourable if and only if:
(a) the relevant hourly rate paid is at least the same as the hourly rate payable under this Agreement; and
(b) persons engaged under this Agreement are not 'better off overall' within the meaning of that term in the Fair Work Act in comparison.


Those with a sharp eye will note that C2 is missing, that is because some months ago AIPA took it upon themselves to significantly modify their own claim to remove C2 in its entirety. It was regarding the more contentious issue of codeshare flights and replacement flights. This is despite the fact that management refuses to even talk about this claim.

To me this demonstrates beyond any doubt that AIPA is showing incredible good faith in this negotiation. It is actually negotiating with itself on behalf of the company. Hardly the rouge kamikaze pilots living in cloud cuckoo land that Mr Joyce portrays.

Where is the good faith from Qantas?

[1me]

Where is the good faith from Qantas?

Can't you see it? It is there..just ask them!

[1me]

I personally think that Joyce is doing a fantastic job of keeping qantas profitable and competitive in a time of massive challenges. Instead of this mindless complaining and bleating, none of which is supported with rational argument, You blubbering cry babies, and i am talking about both aircrew and those teary eyed dropkicks in engineering, should collectively pucker up and kiss his Irish backside for keeping you in a secure job as half of you would be unemployable anywhere else! Seriously, you would be at macdonalds serving burgers or driving cabs for an Indian boss if he was a lesser manager. Get over yourselves!Just goes to show you don't need to have a long neck to be a goose!

Go on..back in your cave now.. there's a good troll.

[stewser89]

thanks for posting that speedy.

gee i wonder why management isn't even prepared to discuss it with aipa?

interesting response by joyce about the current IR legislative framework.

[Quill Shaft]

Qantas Sales Act

Part of the act reads as follows:

(e)
prohibit Qantas from taking any action to bring about a change of its company name to a name that does not include the expression "Qantas"; and
(f)
prohibit Qantas from conducting scheduled International air transport passenger services under a name other than:
(i)
its company name; or
(ii)
a registered business name that includes the expression "Qantas"; and
(g)
require that the head office of Qantas always be located in Australia; and
(h)
require that of the facilities, taken in aggregate, which are used by Qantas in the provision of scheduled international air transport services (for example, facilities for the maintenance and housing of aircraft, catering, flight operations, training and administration), the facilities located in Australia, when compared with those located in any other country, must represent the principal operational centre for Qantas; and
(i)
require that, at all times, at least two-thirds of the directors of Qantas are to be Australian citizens; and
(j)
require that, at a meeting of the board of directors of Qantas, the director presiding at the meeting (however described) must be an Australian citizen; and
(k)
prohibit Qantas, at all times, from taking any action to become incorporated outside Australia.


I think paragraph h) would be able to be put to the test in court for any planned total offshoring of QF International. In particular "used by Qantas in the provision of scheduled International air transport services"

Surely it can't be argued that JQ and its employees contribute to the aggregate mentioned in the act.?

As far as I am aware, JQ use the old IMPULSE airways AOC (domestically anyway). Also due to it being a subsidiary, JQ can be sold at any time without complying to the Act, so how can it be used in the aggregate calculation? Frequent Flyer also a subsidary.

Also JQ only have at this stage around 10 A330's and some A320's making International services.

Care to comment anyone?

[Short_Circuit]

prohibit Qantas, at all times, from taking any action to become incorporated outside Australiaand then came jetconnect NZ, Aisa, Europe :yuk:

[Jack Ranga]

A Qantas manager walks into a bar with a duck under his arm.

The barman says 'Why'd ya bring that spineless bastard with no integrity in here?'

The Qantas manager says 'Steady on, it's my pet duck'

The barman says 'I was talking to the duck'

[tryhard1]

Has anybody asked AJ if the reason why the international arm of Qantas made a loss of $200m last year could be because of the fines incurred by their cargo collusion? Is the cost centre for those fines the international arm??

Its amazing how you can make figures say what ever you want!:hmm:

[WorthWhat]

The 2009 Federal Court Case of Woods v Qantas Airways Limited hinged on Qantas’ control of Jetstar and would have determined inter alia, whether or not Jetstar International was separate from Qantas International.

If, as Woods’ lawyers advised, Jetstar International was a part of Qantas International, the question today would be, does Qantas’ minority holdings in the various Jetstar Asia companies constitute part of:

· Facilities, taken in aggregate, which are used by Qantas in the provision of scheduled international air transport services.

Believe Woods' told Team Bazza that their pulling of the case would do untold damage to Qantas' young pilots and right now - it seems he was too close for comfort.

Opportunity lost.

[WoodenEye]

Whilst what is stated above by Cloudbuster and Worthwhat is by and large correct, the world is soon to be a lot different to when the Sale Act was written and getting more financially precarious as time marches on.
In circumstances where job security and the continued growth of Qantas are at stake, it is necessary, I believe, to come up with a business plan not hamstrung by management aggression and/or employee rigidity.
It is certainly not right that employees be asked to bear the cost management’s mistakes, but people do need to be willing to adapt to changing global circumstances.
I have written elsewhere on this site about how this can be achieved and hopefully the idea will soon start to resonate.
Management have an obligation to lead and thus far they are not doing so. If they ever do, I can only hope that all involved are astute enough to know what an olive branch looks like.

[Sonny Hammond]

Sonny,

Quote:
Does WK work for oldmeadow?
No. ............................

N

It seems that the simple 'no' you played isn't completely accurate. There is some speculation that this may be the case.

[noip]

Sonny,

He does not WORK for OM .. he is retired. He MAY give those that pay for his services his advice on his knowledge of the contract. I believe that is all he would give.

As an aside ... my experience with WK over the years is that while he may have been in a management role, he always did what he could for "the troops" when he could.

I may not be his biggest fan, but I won't trash him.


N

[assasin8]

Qantas should disclose true Jetstar figures before the August 24 restructure…

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/06/23/qantas-figures-need-more-clarity-before-the-august-24-restructure/ (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/06/23/qantas-figures-need-more-clarity-before-the-august-24-restructure/)

The truth is out there... :*

[Tankengine]

I'm with NOIP, WK may be working for the enemy now but was a good stand up manager who could not only understand an employees problem but would actively try to help.:ok:

If he didn't dislike you!:E

He always seemed to be fair!:)

[Sonny Hammond]

Hey! I am not criticising him personally.

I worked with and I had no complaints either and observed him stand up for the group regarding hotels in a layover destination.

However, if he is 'giving advice' for remuneration, lets be honest here- is he giving advice that is assisting the pilots cause?

Thats all i'm saying. Looking the facts and some transparency.

[Tankengine]

He states he is working for the Chief pilot on these negotiations.
In that regard he is working for management "against" the pilots.:ooh:
I think that is transparent.
Like most of us I suspect he wishes he could fix all this without bloodshed.:eek::eek:

[Sonny Hammond]

Fair enough.

[CaptCloudbuster]

He might have been many things but he did jump straight from AIPA President to QF Management.

His continued presence on QREWROOM is one of arrogance, division and derision.

Looks like he displays all the qualities necessary to maintain his consultative role.

[QFinsider]

Whether or not he works for oldmeadow.

It amazes me, that someone who his whole career was protected by the pilots who went before him(1966) spends his retirement time on Q room and being paid to undo a contract that protected him.

[gobbledock]

It amazes me, that someone who his whole career was protected by the pilots who went before him(1966) spends his retirement time on Q room and being paid to undo a contract that protected him.
Money talks..