Viatriskel

[xtypeman]

Is this an airline an agent or what is it and do we know about any of its background?

http://viatriskel.com/ (http://viatriskel.com/)

Would appreciate any thoughts

Xtype

[Capetonian]

It's quite interesting, if you get past the first page, which is utter drivel, what's behind it is common sense.

However, I think this statement is a pretty fair indication that it's a pipe-dream

Unfortunately, despite the advantages we believe a regular viaTriskel service would offer, it has proven quite frustrating at times to receive a constructive response from airport management and our final schedule remains elusive.

and this :

In general, we will operate one aircraft from each base on a daily basis providing a twice-a-week service to most destinations served from that base. Approximately two-thirds of the destinations feature one early departure and one late return the same day, followed three/four days later by a mid-day in-bound/out-bound flight.

High revenue traffic will only be drawn to routes which offer at least a double daily return service on short/medium haul routes.

[TSR2]

Looks like a lot of words and very little (if any) substance.

[Cyrano]

As I recall, Madagascar was cut off from the African mainland 90 million years ago, so the animals on Madagascar have evolved completely differently from those in Africa and elsewhere - in particular they have not had to contend with the same predators.

While I have to respect anyone who sets out to rethink the aviation paradigm and obviously puts some degree of thought into it, the various quirky/human-focused elements laid out on the flytriskel site all have the effect of increasing costs and reducing revenues. Just a few: in their own words a "relatively short working day" for the aircraft; again in their own words "leisurely turn-arounds", a flat fare structure (oh God, here we go again, this one comes round every few years, but this time it's even worse because not only is it a flat fare structure but there are cheap standby tickets on sale at the last minute), and a complicated and low-frequency schedule.

I think this could work in a sort of aviation Madagascar without low-cost carriers, where aviation fuel is cheap (and possibly where the force of gravity is less) but in a land of predatory Ryanairs, easyJets and flyBEs, this level of disregard for profitability is just heading for a bloodbath. Or would be, if it ever had a chance of getting off the ground.

I acknowledge that the concept's author (from the website this would appear to be a Mr B. Clancy, apparently resident in the Indre département in central France) has put a lot of work into this, and it's very appealing to the utopian in me, but sadly I fear it's not one for the real world.

C.

[CelticRambler]

in a land of predatory Ryanairs, easyJets and flyBEs, this level of disregard for profitability is just heading for a bloodbath. Or would be, if it ever had a chance of getting off the ground.


Funnily enough, none of those predators land at many of the airports concerned ... :ooh:

[Capetonian]

Funnily enough, none of those predators land at many of the airports concerned

And therein lies the message.

[TwinAisle]

From the website....

Management, as a job description, does not exist in viaTriskel. Apart from a 'guiding hand' and a few individuals appropriately labelled to satisfy the regulatory authorities, there is no hierarchy

Now apart from the obvious joke about management not existing at many airlines (ho ho), did anyone else read this and think 'oh the CAA/JAA will love that one....'

Regulatory and management oversight and compliance - and GOOD management oversight and compliance - is the starting point for safety. And putting on your website that you intend just to go through the motions to keep the regulator quiet is not going to help them along the road.

Labelling the regulator as dupes before you've even duped them - not smart.

I have to say, after twenty-odd years in this game, I can't make head or tail of this. They have popped up on another site to make it clear that whilst viaTriskel is NOT an airline, they go on to say

Basically viaTriskel operates flights to ferry its customers from or to an airport

Glad to hear they plan to go to and from an airport, as opposed to the local Tesco car park - but I digress - and their own site says

Our mid-sized turbo-prop aircraft accommodate 46 passengers and are capable of landing on relatively short runways, meaning we can provide value-for-money regular and occasional services and a link to the existing viaTriskel network from your local airport when other carriers have said it's impossible.

(The emphasis is mine).

So another Manx2 virtual airline??

TA

[Expressflight]

I think 'bizarre' best describes their plans.

Their main problem is that the airports they propose to serve think the same - they have approached CFR but it was not considered worthy of a positive response.

[Aero Mad]

46 seats implies ATR42-300/320. They say the 'project co-ordinator' is Brian Clancy; Google wasn't my friend on that one.

Express, as you say: quite bizarre. I don't know whether I would want to see their balance sheets two years in.

[TwinAisle]

A thought - Clancy is an Irish name. Waterford, the South East of England, Brittany seem to be on their route map. As per Aero Mad - it sounds like some flavour of ATR.

Not roping Aer Arann in are they?? As per Waterford, Luton, Lorient etc etc?

TA

[planenut321]

If people took the time to read the website you would find that viaTriskel is not an airline....

ViaTriskel has been set up as ''a programme of international business and educational exchanges'' and due to this being international, benefits from the use of an aircraft. Basically viaTriskel operates flights to ferry its customers from or to an airport, say CWL, to locations within say 300nm for these exchanges. These can be educational exhibitions /tours / conferences /packages etc.. Viatriskel isn't about the aircraft, it cares about what the passengers do after the flight, using the aircraft as a flying ''minibus'' so to say. ViaTriskel wouldn't of considered CWL if WW hadn't pulled a fast one due to preference of small regional airports. It aims to fly around 30 passengers each week over a certain number of weeks to these ''events''. The cities it picks have a range of strengths i.e. Southend with science and technology and Châteauroux (main base) having a visual and performing arts facility, conference centre, European food and crafts market and language school.


How am I so sure?

This was all clarified after a very polite an informative email from one Brian Clancy....

[xtypeman]

TA you have forgotten about RE's other London! airport SEN. But what about we can arrange a diversion if its more convient for you. Please one pi**off all the rest. Would like to see the claims under EU reg 261 for that one. But who is Brian Clancy as said Google is not much help other than there is a Brian Clancy in mid France.

Xtype

[TwinAisle]

viaTriskel is not an airline....

viaTriskel operates flights to ferry its customers from or to an airport

It aims to fly around 30 passengers each week

How do quotes 2 and 3 support quote 1?

TA

[planenut321]

Sorry bad choice of words....The aircraft is just a minibus. It will take X number of people to these different events from different airports. It won't be any 30 people, the public won't book onto these flights. It was be an organised group travelling for an event. They could use a coach if they really wanted to, but because its international an aircraft seems the obvious choice.

[TwinAisle]

Sounds to me like flying for hire or reward. That means someone needs an AOC, and with 30 seats, a Type A operating licence.... in other words, it is either planned to be a real airline, or a pseudo one - like Manx2.

TA

[Capetonian]

The more I go back and look at their website the more confused I am. Perhaps I could have a copious amount of whatever the person who wrote that guff has been inhaling!

[Cyrano]

Sorry bad choice of words....The aircraft is just a minibus. It will take X number of people to these different events from different airports. It won't be any 30 people, the public won't book onto these flights. It was be an organised group travelling for an event. They could use a coach if they really wanted to, but because its international an aircraft seems the obvious choice.

OK, fair enough, that would make some sense to me - you're saying that the impetus for the travel is some sort of event rather than individuals pitching up to book tickets just because they want to travel to Chateauroux or Waterford for their holidays or for business. And indeed part of the website does talk about this event-based travel.

But elsewhere on the website I read:
When you find yourself with an unexpected day off, grab your coat and passport and head for the airport. If we've got empty seats, take a standby ticket at a knock down price and have an adventure.
or here:
Our fully flexible, fixed-price tickets are particularly suited to small and start-up businesses facing economic challenges. We understand that that all-important contract might require a signature at the last-minute. Well, we have a perishable product - so our unsold seats are priced to clear rather than profit from your desperation.
...which seems to be very definitely marketing an air journey to individual consumers, i.e. what an airline does.

There does appear to be some sort of interesting "big concept" behind all this - I just don't see how it can be made to work in the context of running an airline.

Every seat on every flight on a particular route is sold at the same price regardless of the time of year or the time of purchase ... with one exception:[standby fares, £/€20 per person]
All our schedules will be operated as year-round, non-seasonal routes
This idea that the schedules and fares will be the same all year round and won't vary seasonally, seems to me like the owner of an ice-cream van saying "I'm going to make 100 cones every day, no more, no less, whether it's a wet Tuesday in November or a sunny summer bank holiday weekend." To put it diplomatically, that doesn't seem to be a strategy which maximises the chances of commercial success.

[TwinAisle]

Quote:
Every seat on every flight on a particular route is sold at the same price regardless of the time of year or the time of purchase ... with one exception:[standby fares, £/€20 per person]


Also means there is no buying imperative, which means the cash-flow will be pants, load management will be a terrifying exercise, and revenue management will be impossible...

Cyrano, the 'event travel v individual travel' question won't deflect from the fact that either way, if they fly the aircraft (as the website strongly implies) they will need an AOC and an operating licence. That would make them.... um... an airline....

TA

[Cyrano]

Cyrano, the 'event travel v individual travel' question won't deflect from the fact that either way, if they fly the aircraft (as the website strongly implies) they will need an AOC and an operating licence. That would make them.... um... an airline....


Absolutely - no argument from me there. I was just trying to make sense of the we're-selling-to-groups-not-individuals market positioning.

[TwinAisle]

Ah, copy that Cyrano. Not for the first time, we seem to be on the same page.... must be something to do with knowing what we are talking about, eh?

Xtypeman made a good comment earlier - this stuff about dropping someone off if they are flying over their house - 261 is going to apply in spades there. I think XTM might know what he is on about as well... :)

Good luck to anyone who can re-engineer the industry. Let's face it, most of us have been working up against bits of it here and there for years. But perhaps most of us would recognise that the rules are there for a reason, and things are done the way they are because after years of trial and error, the best way has already been found....

Mr Clancy seems to have an issue with consultants. I fear that they may well have told him many of the things he is reading on this thread; that may well not be what he hoped to hear. Don't shoot the messenger and all that...

TA

[xtypeman]

Cyrano and TA also must agree with both of you and yes TA have been around this game for 30+ years. But back to our subject and its a point Cyrano has picked up is it groups or individuals or is he trying to sell a package and if he's left with spare seats flog them as well. Which ever way you look at it it will fall foul of relevant legislation.

Trying to re-invent the wheel is to be appluded but this is not one that will work. Lets say he sells vouchers but they are not used he has cash flow so goes and flys but then all the vouchers are used againts a future flight so he flys for zero revenue too many vochers out there and the money drys up rapidly.

XTM

[TwinAisle]

Interesting responses to questions about this operation over at WAN.

They ARE planning to be an airline, and are applying for a DGAC based AOC. However, they may drop this in favour of a 'Manx2' style operation (alarm bell ringing already....)

Proposed fleet is Fokker 50 (second alarm bell of the day) and J31s (huge peals of them now....)

(Free advice - you'll need a Type A licence for an F50....)

Good luck to them. I think they will need it.

TA