Now it's JQ's turn to face the ATSB

[Darwinism]

From the ATSB website: Investigation: AO-2011-073 - Runway event - Airbus, A321-231, VH-VWX, Darwin Airport, 12 June 2011 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2011/aair/ao-2011-073.aspx)

[Sunstar320]

well if they started rolling from where I think they did, that would pave way for around 2200m of runway.

Assuming a R11 departure here?

[ozbiggles]

Note the time on the report
Of course JQ will say fatigue had nothing to do with it.

[Icarus2001]

Is it reasonable to assume that the crew self reported? If not how did it become public knowledge?

[QFdude]

Sunstar 320,

You know they use 1600m Rwy's everyday in their network. 2200m is more than ample, it will be dependant on the intersection used for the performance. Don't be so quick to be critical.

I think Ozbiggles point will be more pertinant.

[dodgybrothers]

Maybe for a 320 QF not a 321 though.

[waren9]

Very easily done at 0140 in the morning after little or no sleep, and if it was JQ81 then it was already running 6 hours late.

Those who have and those who will. One day Jetstars little holes will all line up.

[Sunfish]

How does the "Toughen Up Princess" email and the associated Jetstar comment regarding fatigue fit into this?

[framer]

Very easily done at 0140 in the morning after little or no sleep
It sure is.
I have done it twice, once where I used the ZFW instead of the TOW. The Capt was doing the walk around and I realised my mistake before he came back and corrected it. Told him about it in the cruise in the interests of learning/safety etc.
Second time used wrong runway , Capt was sitting beside me and picked it up when his data was different from mine.
I consider myself to be vigilent, I aim to be, but 8 hours into an 11 hour shift for the third day in a row on the back of the clock I make mistakes.
Fatigue is our industries biggest challenge in my opinion.
Framer

[waren9]

How does the "Toughen Up Princess" email and the associated Jetstar comment regarding fatigue fit into this?


It doesnt. There is no such thing as fatigue at Jetstar. If for any reason you cannot complete your duty, pay is deducted. In order to pay the mortgage you are forced to a) lie about the reason by applying for sick leave (if you were actually fatigued) and b) use up your sick leave to compensate for poor and inadequate flight and duty limits.

Despite them bleating on about an open reporting culture, there is no formal procedure for claiming fatigue, no one does it, no stats are captured and ergo there is no fatigue at JQ. Just the way they like it.

[Donalduck]

I am ground crew at Mackay airport... been in the job for over 6 years now. In that time there have been at least 2 instances where the story as reported at the airport is that Jetstar almost landed on one of the main roads away from the airport in difficult weather. The first was when I first started work at Mackay and the latest just a few weeks ago.
When I first heard it a few years ago I thought "Yeah right..its just rumors"... but the recent report lead me to google the subject and there are instances of Jetstar being reported as having done this at other airports... and the report only coming into ATSB/CASA hands after an outside party blew the whistle (according to online/media sources)...
So... my question (and remember I claim no expert knowledge here)... is there any truth to the stories? Is this common... and is it all carriers across the board... it seems strange that it is only Jetstar that has these rumors circulating.

[Jabawocky]

It almost happened many moons ago when you were a wee little duckling, nebo road :eek: and long before Jetstar came along.

[Wally Mk2]

Hey Jaba wasn't that a 737 that lined up on some hwy lights before either being told yr out of whack there or realizing it themselves & went around? Was up Qld somewhere if I recall. Anyway been done b4 & will be done again for sure, humans just like pretty lights:-)


Wmk2

[gobbledock]

It doesnt. There is no such thing as fatigue at Jetstar. If for any reason you cannot complete your duty, pay is deducted. In order to pay the mortgage you are forced to a) lie about the reason by applying for sick leave (if you were actually fatigued) and b) use up your sick leave to compensate for poor and inadequate flight and duty limits.
Despite them bleating on about an open reporting culture, there is no formal procedure for claiming fatigue, no one does it, no stats are captured and ergo there is no fatigue at JQ. Just the way they like it.

Sensational. 11/10 to waren9 for a very simple yet totaly accurate description of what really goes on. Airlines are nothing but a circus act using smoke n mirrors to fool anybody on the outside looking in. Only those of us on the inside know the rules of the game and how it is actually played.
My only desire is that when the inevitable smoking hole happens there are at least some members of management, their families, some pollies and their families onboard...It is the only way change will ever come about.
Tick Tock

[kellykelpie]

It would appear this was self reported and then the airline reported it to CASA.

It would be a shame for this open reporting to be turned into a blame game (either Jetstar or the crew).

[waren9]

Of course it was self reported. HTF would ATC know?

The question is what are the reasons behind it happening in the first place. How deep will the ATSB dig?

As for Jetstar, no prang, no harm done. Carry on chaps. Expect a "pat on the back" email from the CP re the ash cloud recovery efforts:hmm: