Qantas aircraft order reduction

[chockchucker]

Qantas blinks and cuts jet orders
June 15, 2011 – 10:41 am, by Ben Sandilands

Qantas has made significant cuts to its capital expenditure liabilities and reduced its fleet acquisitions by 12 single aisle jets and its growth estimates because of signs of contraction in the Australian economy.

This is part of its statement to the ASX:

The Qantas group has not yet estimated the impact of the volcanic ash crisis, not just because it is a continuing problem, but it is understood, because of the probability that many of the fares booked on cancelled flights will be used rather than refunded in coming weeks.

A major problem for Qantas, and other airlines, is that a substantial cost factor in the ash related flight cancellations is fixed costs that continue even though the jets aren’t flying. The airline is still paying wages, and finance or leasing costs in some cases.



Anybody want to lay odds that Qantas domestic will wear the brunt of all this with cancellations of long overdue 737-800's?


And that Jetstar A320 and Jetconnect 737-800 deliveries meantime will continue un-interupted?:ugh:

[ejectx3]

It's almost a given

[1a sound asleep]

Its odd they will not state 738 or A320

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

QF is supposed have 1 738/mth delivered until the end of the year. What is the delivery schedule of JQ A320's? If you can find out that info, it would be pretty obvious I would think.

[The Green Goblin]

Sounds to me like someone is having a tantwum.

If you can't play wif my twain set how I say, den no one gets ter play wit it.

Ter be sure ter be sure :mad:

[Blackdog320]

According to Airbus, JQ have one A320 scheduled for delivery in November.
3k on the other hand??

[vigi-one]

Could be 10 fokkers for Network and two 717's for Cobham? why because they are buying Alliance!!!!!!!!!!

[chockchucker]

I believe QF had 737-800's coming until at least the end of next year.


Now, surely a smarter long term thinking CEO would have said: No, lets not cancel 12 new aircraft that will have lower maintenance costs. Why not keep those aircraft coming and sell/return to lease company the first 12 737-800's that came into the fleet nine or ten years ago that are all just entering QC8 or D-check vintage.


But alas, thinking like that requires foresight and the long term interests of the airline in mind. Not the immediate bonus driven short term interests of the board and CEO.:ugh:

[Short_Circuit]

But alas, thinking like that requiresKNOWLEDGE OF THE BUSINESS YOU RUN. :ooh:

[teresa green]

Er, Chockchucker, like to get off the hanger floor? Exchange a wet hanger for a nice cushy office? Well, do we have the job for you! (I am assuming from your name your a gingerbeer), if a driver, over those long nights? etc etc, please watch the job sheets, there could be a big one coming up! Sigh, why is it so obvious to Chockchucker and the powers to be have not a :mad: clue?:ugh:

[Going Nowhere]

Alliance registered 2 more F100's in the last week.

What're the odds it's to take over more QLink QLD flying? :rolleyes:

[IAW]

Seriously though, I reckon these are the Network Fokkers.

I think when Q announced they would buy 10 more, they didn't realise that there weren't any left that were a common config to Network's on the market.
The ones that are on the market are all clapped out or have small cargo doors/620-15 engines or even worse previously operated by dodgy third world operators.

Network's 2 F100s + 1 parts bitch are sister ships to Alliance's...

[Xcel]

No conspiracy^^

alliance now have more aircraft than skywest - would be a substantial cost to purchase. Perhaps the new aircraft are simply to buy the market as they haven proven their worth yet are cheap (relativly) to buy. Network can't buy what isn't available (Fokkers that is)

could be wrong:}

[HF3000]

Ben says it is 6x B737 and 6x A320.

[mikk_13]

why would Qantas want to buy f100s. With millions in the back wouldn't it make more sense to get some new emb190s or order some comac arjs.

I would have thought old f100s would cost a mint to maintain and i don't know about every one else but i prefer flying in a new jet compared to scary old clappers. Also, why have virgin and Q not got any 737-900ers. I would have thought they would be a sound choice for replacing the old 767s and better off doing the perth runs than the a330s.

[Sunfish]

Can someone please find out who is taking the aircraft instead of Qantas????????????

You don't just "cancel" an order. Deposits have been paid, there are non refundable costs associated with a cancellation.

Moreover, if you have a delivery slot you can sell it in certain circumstances and make a profit.


I wonder if an aircraft leasing company is taking these aircraft off Qantas hands?


FFS can someone please follow the money on these transactions?

[Jabawocky]

Maybe they were just options that have been cancelled, they had way too many b787's on order as options.

This could just be yet another scare tactic to the pilots/engineers/cabin crew to show there is real doom and gloom out there when it's negotiating pay.

Also shows some tough stance to the market about what they are doing, in an attempt to stem the share price flow of death. Of course with a share price that low, they could not get the finance for all of them no doubt :uhoh:

Just a thought sunnie.

[Sunfish]

Jaba, "options" don't get cancelled, they get sold. Qantas, assuming they were buying these aircraft themselves, have had slots booked on the Boeing and Airbus production lines for years, it's not like you are buying a Holden off the showroom floor.

If the aircraft were due for delivery this year, then a lot of them will be already under construction (or their components). Someone will have to take those aircraft. It might be rather instructive to find out who is taking them and under what terms.

[Red Jet]

or order some comac arjs.
I think you may find that even though the "corporate" memory at QF seems to be similar to that of a common housefly, their willingness to stake the future on yet another undeveloped, untested aircraft design, is somewhat compromised by the A380/B787 delivery debacle.

[ANCDU]

So with the continued retirement of the 734's there will be a reduction in the Qantas 737 fleet! With great loasd factors over the last few months i have got to ask what planet are these people on, or are they just reducing liability in preparation for the upcoming takeover deal?

[B772]

Reduced demand due to the introduction of the Carbon Tax and its flow on implications ?.

[vitamin B]

Had the misfortune to be on QF 501 Tuesday morning out of BNE on one of the newer 734s - TJY. The A/C was absolutely full with all the suits trying valiantly to stuff their computer bags as well as roller bags into the overhead lockers.
It is about time QF looked after their frequent travellers. The 767 was a good A/C to travel in back in the early '90s but are very jaded now - upwards of 20 yrs old.
AJ - switch the 787s to mainline rather than the LCC and you might have a win over DJ

[brown_hornet]

I also had the pleasure of paxing home after a trip on the ol' classic 737. No other words can describe it other than pure embarrassment. TV screens similar to what I remember watching at my nana's house, scuff marks in business on the side panels, and "entertainment" buttons that don't work. The businessman next to me couldn't listen to the Man vs Wild repeat for the 100th time! But our aim is to be the world's best premium airline.

I just hope this doesn't mean they are going to delay the retirement of those rust buckets.:yuk:

[1a sound asleep]

Maybe the new owners of QF wanted this before the takeover next month??

2006 $11.1 B.
2011 Bargain at todays share price just $4 B

[ejectx3]

No don't let the classics go they're the only ones I can land smoothly!

[who_cares]

Dont all the 734s need to be gone by the end of 2013? Something to do with ADS-B compliance

[stewser89]

or just fly them below fl 290. Would hate to see the fuel bill though

[ejectx3]

Who flies above FL260? Too slow up there!

[an3_bolt]

Who flies above FL260? Too slow up there!

Me.

I destroyed most of my high frequency racing around at the VMO/MMO crossover. :mad:

Gotta hang onto what I have left - which is not much!!

[OhForSure]

What ever happened to the original plan of Express Freighters taking 6 733s and then rolling over to the last 6 734's when their retirements were up??? They only ever took 4 -300s, but are they still planning on converting the -400s?

[HF3000]

Don't ever let a crisis go to waste. That's the motto of big business especially BCG and Oldmeadow consulting.

I think you'll find that this announcement makes little change to what is really happening in the Qantas Group... Consider for one minute that 3 narrow body "cancellation/deferrals" this month is supposed to make $100million to the bottom line. How much does an A320 or B738NG cost?

Notice that everyone has focussed on the word "cancelled" and ignored the next words "or deferred".

3 narrow bodies by the end of this month is not $100 million.

Doesn't add up I'm sorry, so this is obviously a pathetic attempt by a struggling CEO to meet a few last minute KPI's, desperately save the share price and his job, and attempt to upset the plans for PIA by the employees. Sorry AJ, FAIL.

[SpannerTwister]

You've got a 20-year-old Toyota that's actually in pretty good shape, been "log-book" serviced by the dealer all its life, but, let be honest, isn't worth very much now above scrap value.

So you look at trading it in on a brand-new Toyota Prius i-Tech......$50,629.96* with an ADR fuel consumption of 4 liters / 100km

So you take your old Toyota to the panel-beater, he quotes you $1,000 to pull out a couple of dings, $1,000 for a new paint job, and his mate, a motor trimmer, says he'll recover all your upholstery for you for just $1,000.

Walking around SuperCheap Auto, you see that with change out of $1,000 you can get a new in-dash radio and GPS, add SatNav to your car and buy a new air freshener too !!

The "mechanicals" are all in good condition as it was regularly serviced and parts have always been replaced on an as-needed basis.

Right now, a "just-used" Prius i-tech is on Used Cars & New Cars for Sale | Car Sales & Car Reviews - Drive.com.au (http://www.drive.com.au/) for $45,000**, you drop $5,000 when you drive it out of the showroom.

You're worried that your old Toyota might not be compliant with some "regulation" that's coming into place in the not-too-distant-future, so you check the regulators website for more information.........

The new requirements make fitment and operation of approved ADS-B avionics equipment mandatory on, and from, 12 December 2013 for all Australian aircraft operations at, or above, FL 290 (unless CASA has authorised otherwise).

Does it make sense to pay $50K plus for that new Prius that's going to drop $5,000 as you drive it off the dealers yard, while it certainly may use a lot less fuel then your existing Toyota, $50,000 @ 10% is $5,000 pa in interest, for that sort of money, PLUS the fuel you still need to buy, you'll never be ahead !

Does anyone here really think that CASA would shut Qantas down on 12 Dec 2013 if Qantas said "Our planes aren't ready" ?

No, They tried that once before with Ansett, they won't do it again !!!

So for $3,000 - $4,000 you can bring you old "clunker" up to a very good standard, anyone see where I'm going with this, or are you all queuing up to buy new Priuses :D !!

ST

*Toyota.com.au
**Used Cars & New Cars for Sale | Car Sales & Car Reviews - Drive.com.au (http://www.drive.com.au/)
***Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast (ADS-B) - ADS-B Mandate - Airservices Australia (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projectsservices/projects/adsb/mandate.asp)

[Sunfish]

Once upon a time, there was a fleet of DC-9's that were sold for almost scrap value by an airline. The aircraft were actually modded up to almost new.

The aircraft were immediately sub contracted to a very large Government entity for a great deal of money and the Two owners of the airline and the aircraft buyer walked off with a great deal of money and no tax man was any the wiser.


The value of an aircraft depends to some extent on its maintenance history and modification status

[HF3000]

Like I said, desperate measures by a desperate CEO to obfuscate and meet KPIs.

But KPIs are a good idea - don't get me wrong.

[Going Boeing]

Thai Airways announces $3.9 Airbus, Boeing orders

BANGKOK - Thai Airways announced Monday that it would acquire 23 Airbus and 14 Boeing passenger and cargo airplanes for about $3.9 billion to modernise its ageing fleet.

The carrier said the deals, which have been approved by its board of directors, would enable it to grow profits and be among the top three leading airlines in Asia in terms of quality and service efficiency.

The airline plans to buy six Boeing 777-300ER planes, four Airbus A350-900s and five A320-200s for a total of about $1.6 billion, for delivery between 2014 and 2017.

It will also lease 22 aircraft, including eight Boeing 787 Dreamliners, to be delivered between 2012 and 2017, a company statement said.

"Acquiring new aircraft made from lightweight and non-corrosive composite material to replace retiring aircraft will save fuel and maintenance costs," it added.

Currently the Thai carrier operates a mix of Airbus and Boeing planes, including some ageing 747 jumbos.

The launch of Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner, heralded as a new generation of highly fuel-efficient mid-sized aircraft, has been repeatedly delayed due to a string of technical mishaps.

Delivery of the first planes is now scheduled for the third quarter of 2011.

by Ian Timberlake
(c) 2011 AFP

[mmciau]

Spanner Twister

Fine analysis of the old "Tojo" but you missed the mass of spot welds that have sheared because mum kept banging the car against the gutter - read "the rivets are spinning in their holes on the fuselage"

[Fly_by_wire]

Yay!! Already looking forward to the next 734 trip across the ditch.

[binrow]

Was involved with the conversions of the 4 733 to Freight config, there was chatter about doing 2 more , never happened, there was also chatter about doing 734, but the killer was although they are a bigger AC they still carry the same max weight as a 733, and the 733 hardly ever maxed out the volume vs weight. Was a good jolly for a few of us would loved to had a efw extra months at AVV on that gig.

[Boomerang]

The Toyota analogy is nice. And will work if you're carting the kids around. On the other hand if you pull up at Changi terminal 1 to pick me up, I'll wait for the Prius :-)

When fortunate enough to travel J class, the A330 has it over the 767. I work for the Loco and I agree (money issues aside) that the premium pax should get the Prius (787) not the FJ landcruiser.

[jarden]

So with 6 A320 and 6 73H being deferred, we will not see any new routes opened up or increased frequencies on existing routes in the next 12 months. So it will be a boring year ahead with no expansion at the QF Group. Maybe VA can announce some new international destinations in the coming months, they have a few A330's on order from Airbus along with the ex -EK birds.
Of course I nearly forgot to mention Strategic's U.S. and China plans.

[SpannerTwister]

Fine analysis of the old "Tojo" but you missed the mass of spot welds that have sheared because mum kept banging the car against the gutter - read "the rivets are spinning in their holes on the fuselage"

We've just reskinned the back lower half of a 734, if you're up to speed on the "spinning rivets", you'll know that a good "D" check would fix things like that, cost-wise for peanuts.

Say what you like, but our Sydney HM facility was "Worlds best practice"..as far as WB aircraft go, challenged only by Melbourne (TULLAMARINE !! ) HM as "Worlds best practice" for NB aircraft.

The Toyota analogy is nice. And will work if you're carting the kids around. On the other hand if you pull up at Changi terminal 1 to pick me up, I'll wait for the Prius :-)

I hear you, but honestly, I don't believe this to be true..........

IMHO, 99% of the SLF DON'T KNOW what sort of airplane they're getting into.

They've had their "perception" set by buying their LCC or legacy airline ticket.

If Qantas are selling them a "Legacy Airline" ticket, they don't expect to be nickel & dimed every stop of the way.

They've paid for a premium class airline and they want a premium class experience.

Put them (domestically) in a 734 or (internationally) in a 767 and they wouldn't have a clue who the manufacturer of the airplane was.

But they DO know that the carpets had worn patches on them and daggy black tape over a lot of the carpet seams, they DO know that the sidewalls haven't been white or scratch-free for many years, they DO know that their seat cover is stained and their magazine pocket if frayed.

They DO see that the ceiling / PSU panels are all out of alignment and the filler is falling out between many of the overhead locker bins.

They DO notice that the toilet looks like it hasn't had a deep clean for years and that their "meal" is a "cup" of spring water and two cookies.

Spend the $1,000 at the panel-beater and the trimmer, toss out the Tandy 8-Track cassette and accept that CUSTOMERS on you "legacy airline" are paying premium prices and expect their airplane to look nice and clean and their meal to be more then water and cookies.

The people flying on the LCCs don't expect to be flying on brand-new aircraft with all the bells and whistles, yet in out fleet they are the ones with the brand-new aircraft ?

Any way you count the $$'s "reconditioning" the existing QF fleet, that owes you nothing, has to be way more cost effective then giving them away and buying new airplanes.

ST

[Sunfish]

+1 Spanner Twister.