How to Fix the Qantas International Business

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hey all, I now it is not our job but at the end of the day, this mess will need to be sorted. I was just wondering how some of you think the International arm of Qantas could become more profitable. It appears to me that poor decisions are being made deliberately to make her look unprofitable and then being used as an excuse to "not invest" in anything other than Jetstar. The information you can post here will assist us (pilots and engineers) greatly when some of the matters around our EA negotiations are heard before Commissioners in FWA.

Just to get the ball rolling -


We have a number of departments within Engineering where lost customer contracts have left our members with little work. Ditching contracts has not saved them money becasue the staff numbers are the same. How about we get those workforces busy again by picking up as much customer work as possible.


Excessive layers of management. I thought Alan wanted less layers between the CEO and the worker. In 2007 they introduced Ops managers at Australian ports that sit in between the Engineering managers and the Foreman. They were essentially engaged to act as strike breakers during our last dispute, not that they helped at all. I say, get rid of them, let the managers do what they used to do instead of spending their days harassing the workforce.


Stop sending 737 aircraft overseas for heavy mainteance. Every one has come back broken and very late. You can easily fit them in the next bay at the Melbourne hangar, even if a large chunk of work was done on overtime, it would still be cheaper.


Stop all the rubbish court cases you are involved in against your own staff members and their unions. The IR legal budget must be at least $10 million a year. All in order to demonise workers into thinking they have no rights and can be treated like murr by their bored managers.


Buy some aircraft with the correct configuration. How can we already be spending hundreds of millions to change the 380 layout?


Stop the wank. Not sure if it is company wide but I was recently handed some little cards that were to be handed out to "Acknowledge those who shine". Please sack the fool or consultant who created this costly garbage and put a bloody bbq on for the Engineers instead.


Resolve the outstanding Sunstate LAME dispute. The guys have reached agreement with you on the terms, they just want their backpay like every other staff member has got. It amounts to about $60,000. If you haven't spent $10 million fighting them, I will eat my hat. And yes, I know it is not Qantas International but I bet the legal bills are all being booked there via the Oldmeadow consulting group.


Get some real edible food on board. It would have to be cheaper than the cr@p being served now.
I really would appreciate any further ideas.

cheers
Steve Purvinas

[stewser89]

Steve

How are they changing the A380 Config?


I would also add energise the workforce

Cheers

Cameron

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

How are they changing the A380 Config?



As far as i know they are getting rid of first class. They told us about a week ago and that the reconfig would be carried out in Manilla. I don't think LT in Manilla have ever worked a 380 but the Qantas Supply department have determined them the best available option.

[Sunfish]

Immediately fire any Qantas Board member or manager who has spouted this "Legacy Airline" crap. Start with Clifford and Joyce.

"Legacy Airline" is code for no investment and "harvesting" every bit of return from the airline before throwing it away. It means no investment in people or technology because it has been decided that the object is a "Legacy" for which there is no further use - the airline is going to die so we won't waste time on it. This attitude has now been entrenched as conventional wisdom withing Qantas management and it pollutes their entire thinking.

It was entrenched when Marg and Dixon started labeling Qantas as a "legacy airline" - that was code for every manager in Qantas to take that idea on board and make it happen - to act to make it true.

To put it another way, the days of every employee of Qantas International were numbered as soon as the words were out of Dixons mouth - "you have no future, we will not invest in you, when you leave we will not replace you."

To put it another way; Jackson, Clifford, Dixon and Joyce consigned every single Qantas group employee who was not part of Jetstar to the equivalent of the Sandakan Death March.

Jetstar is the future for management. Joyce is incapable of conceiving any other future because of his background and experience. The death of Qantas mainline is certain under his stewardship. He does not understand that the fixation with the Low Cost model will not survive traffic downturns and a maturing corporate infrastructure, even Ryanair has recently worked that out. "Legacy airline vs. LCC" is last century's battle.

You cannot survive as long as "Legacy airline" thinking persists in Qantas management. They will simply say that SP's (and other) good ideas will just prolong the final agony. In their minds you are finished and there is nothing you can do to change their thinking.

Until these folk are removed, nothing can be done.

[bobhoover]

buy/lease triplers. Surely the rest of the world can't be wrong. Even 747-8 should be seriously considered.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Sunfish what would you call the (in management terms) "Legacy Airline"?

What word should we as proud employees (and ex in my case) use to describe Qantas?

[rodchucker]

ALEA,

The best word would be JOYCELESS

That sums it up and would immediately engender staff loyalty.

A decent CEO would manage upwards the Chairman and tell show him the door as round 2.

[oicur12.again]

"I was just wondering how some of you think the International arm of Qantas could become more profitable."

Better customer service.

Newer aircraft.

Lower fares.

[stewser89]

part of the problem is that Qantas is pricing itself out of the market and I know that I'm going to get flamed for this but Qantas needs to increase its efficencies and lowers its cost base to reduce ticket prices.

If its unable to do this its a dead duck.

BTW thanks Steve... I can't believe all the works being done o/s :ugh:

Thats said its such a wonder why they have to reduce First class. Have a look at the price difference between Suites on Singapore's 380s and Qantas. Still a truckload of money though.

[SkyScanner]

Given the constraints of Sydney airport and the plentiful of space available in Canberra, do a deal with the federal government to build and run the biggest maintenance base in the southern hemisphere in Canberra. Build multiple hangars that can used for 787s when they arrive plus additional 737 maintenance that cannot be done in Melbourne. Reopen the engine overhaul section and tender out for work worldwide based on our long and proud history of getting longevity out of the engines.

Better utilise the aircraft: Why network scheduling has aircraft sitting around idle for extended periods is just ridiculous. My biggest bug bear is when the 97 flies to HKG and sits on the ground for 16 hrs, then flies back where it sits in BNE for 12 hrs, an absolute waste of resources.

New routes (all of these can be done using our current fleet of aircraft more efficiently): BNE-BKK-FCO (2x), MEL-BKK-ATH (3x), HKG-PEK, SYD-DXB-LHR(daily), CNS-DRW-SIN (daily), LHR-PER (cut EK right out), BNE-NAD (sat), SIN-HKG (daily), SYD-OOL (6x a day).

Less managers: WTF do we need so many cabin crew managers for and how exactly do they add value?

Less SPIN doctors: WTF do I keep hearing about the new spirit when its the same old product?

[howyoulikethat]

Offer VR.....all those blokes who don't want to be part of it anymore, move on.The blokes who do, work together as one..no more of this
QF INT-QF DOM bull****!the time has come to stand together.....look at ports like Perth where its combined no worries at all,except lack of manpower,true there is less blokes/girls there than the bigger ports but
bloody hell compared to the east coast its pure harmony.....time to bury
the hatchet and get on with being mates no more blue and red lets make
it purple and we really do stand together......:ok:

[assasin8]

Agree with all your points Steve... Well done...

I think our management needs to focus on PROVIDING A SERVICE!

It's the basics that are being lost and thus turning customers away...

How often do I hear from CSMs, that they haven't even got enough catering for business class... Let alone, still having a choice of mains, by the time they get to the last row!

FFS, these passengers pay a heap for a business class ticket (and they're WILLING to pay to get a better product!) and expect something in return... An extra meal isn't going to break the budget!

Obviously, some management 101 graduate ran the numbers and saw that on any other given day, X amount of meals are tossed out... So, by reducing the catering by X (or however they worked it out), they would save Y per financial year (gotta love how they can't see past that amazing "end of financial year" crap! Might have something to do with their almighty KPIs and bonuses?).

Only problem is that by not providing the service expected, that passenger may never return...

Same for working entertainment systems! Same for getting that wheelchair at the other end. Same for a hand with the kids and baggage... The list is endless, but it all boils down to one thing... SERVICE!

As you said, why do we waste money on "touchy feely BS"... Centre of Excellence, Excel awards, breakfast with Lyell, glossy in house magazines...etc, etc...

Then there are the more serious technical aspects... Poor route network, lack of fleet renewal (...while our LCC has a fleet of brand new aircraft!), lack of vision with respect to aircraft choice and configuration... etc, etc...

As I've posted previously, there are two things that set Qantas apart from any other Airline... We are uniquely Australian and, of course, our safety reputation... Our passengers have and continue to pay that bit extra for these very things!

If we do not maintain these, then there will be nothing to stop the flow of passengers to any other operator! It is this, that is losing us market share and will continue, if the Board doesn't acknowledge the fact that the offshoring of work will cause us to lose our identity and customer base!

Get back to basics, offer the SERVICE our passengers have paid for! Look after the passengers, who in turn will come back next time... That will take care of the profits!:ugh:

[Oldmate]

Entered in error

[Short_Circuit]

KPIs and bonuses killed service & safety... The fix is obvious :ok:

[CaptCloudbuster]

Back in March on QREWROOM a letter from a QF FO to Clifford was posted which generated over 10000 views!

The poster advised the reply consisted of a 3 LINE RESPONSE which said Clifford was satisfied with his Managements performance.:ugh:

Mr Clifford,
The 16th of November marked the 90th year since the signing of the historic papers at the Gresham hotel in Brisbane where this airline took its infant steps. The resilience Qantas has shown through the decades is a testament to the loyalty and hard work of its employees that have come together to endure all that has been placed before us. In recent times though, the decisions of management have caused a shift in the goodwill of its staff with engagement levels at an all time low. The Qantas fleet continues to age and any chance for Qantas mainline growth seems to stall at every turn due to Jetstar being the flavour of the month. We have seen the airline go from aviation innovator to laggard in many respects and with the exception of “Next generation check-in”, Qantas seems to be shying away from the big picture decisions such as new routes, new aircraft and not only maintaining the passenger experience, but enhancing it. Mr Clifford, the reason I am writing to you today is not only as a concerned shareholder, but also as a concerned employee. All who I speak with fear this company will not live to see its centenary, we fear for Qantas’s future, we fear for this company we love working for.

You may question as to why I am to writing to you and not the CEO. Unfortunately previous correspondence to Mr Joyce has gone unanswered and unacknowledged. Such correspondence looked at ways of making improvements to the company that would enhance shareholder value. Improvements that would also raise the level of goodwill amongst employees which in turn leads to improvements in productivity.

We as employees want nothing but the ultimate for our customers. Not only do we want this airline to be the best, most respected and safest airline, but most importantly the most trusted airline to get your family from A to B. We, as employees, want to see an end to the “us versus them”, “employee versus management” that rages on. The segmentation of the airline damaged relations as managers did their best to maximise their own KPIs to get a bonus. More often than not this was done at the expense of the group as a whole because it cost other departments more money to rectify the problem. I believe the term used is Penny Wise – Pound Foolish.

Mr Clifford, the current KPI bonus system that Qantas employs is doing detriment to the Group as a whole. The siloed structure still continues with managers only thinking of their own rewards.

We as employees want to see the end to the constant stream of industrial and airline consultants that do nothing but drive a wedge between staff and bosses alike. We should not have to rely on Boston Consulting Group to gauge how the employees or customers are feeling – all you have to do is spend a day in their shoes and you will know instantly where we can improve. Perhaps senior management should take the Rob Fyfe line and go and talk with the ground staff, go and talk with the cabin crew, go and load bags, find out what is really going on. As employees we look for direction from management as to where this airline is heading. As yet we haven’t seen a definitive direction – Is mainline going to grow? Are we going to shrink? Will we see a time when Qantas mainline hires another pilot or will our junior pilots continue to live in fear of losing their jobs? We are still looking for inspiration and direction from the senior managers.

We want to be the pinnacle of world aviation, we just need direction. Mr Clifford, what do we as employees need to do to help?

As always the company and its employees will have the occasional stoushes when it comes to EBA time, but one hopes that we will never see a return to the fight that Qantas had with its engineers; a fight that Qantas reported cost well in excess of $160 million not to mention the non-tangible effect from passengers who now fly with other carriers.

Over the years this airline has gone from innovator to imitator. Not for a moment am I suggesting that we involve ourselves in risky strategies, but to be successful at anything you have to at least make an effort. Too often we hear how something is too hard or we cannot do it, what we should be hearing is what we can do to make it work. We should be utilising our proud workforce to look for ways of making things succeed. In this financial year alone, myself and several other pilots, have made presentations to the company that can save tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. These varied from operational efficiencies through fuel savings, a voluntary redundancy scheme (which was successfully implemented at BA), to crew reduction strategy by allowing pilots to transfer to other group entities, this ensures that on an overall basis the company saves money.

Mr Clifford, the Qantas mainline workforce is over 27,000 people strong. The backgrounds of each employee are different, from doctors to lawyers and even investment bankers. I personally have a commerce degree that included Dean’s honour roll for outstanding results. We should be utilising our staff not ignoring them.

Over the past 12 months I have had the opportunity to fly on Emirates, British Airways, Jetstar Asia, Etihad, Cathay Pacific, Virgin Blue, Silk Air, Transavia, Vietnam Airlines, Ryanair, Tyrolean and finally Thai Airways last week; thus you could say I have had a good cross sections of airlines with which to make comparisons. Moreover, with the exception of intra-Europe flying, all of the other services could have been operated on Qantas as either a route we used to fly or one in which we can. Without wanting to sound biased the Qantas International product (in particular 330 and 380) is one in which many airlines can only strive to match. Etihad was amateur, Thai Airways didn’t have personal entertainment, the Cathay seats were shocking and Emirates simply had too many nationalities of cabin crew to form a cohesive working group. As such I wonder why Qantas continues to deny Australians a viable alternative?

We continually hear from Yield or Network (no-one ever identifies themselves) that Qantas just “cannot make money on that route”. I refer to the earlier statement as to “why we cannot do something” and simply say “what do we as an airline have to do to make it an attractive option”. I, as do many others, sometimes wonder if these are the same so called experts who told us that the 777 aircraft was not right for us, this aircraft being of course the backbone of Emirates, Singapore and Cathay. Are these the same people from cargo who have cost us millions in unnecessary fines... money that could have been better spent re-investing in a new fleet.

The Qantas fleet age is also becoming problematic. Whilst all airlines have their difficulty with difference aircraft from time to time, our recent problems are due to the age of our aircraft. At present we have 56 aircraft aged 15 years and over, this is equivalent to driving a VN model Holden Commodore 15 hours a day, every day, for 15 years; eventually, no matter how great our engineers are, they are going to break, we are rapidly reaching that point. We are supposed to be a premium carrier offering our passengers nothing but the best, yet our fleet age is staggering. The 767 OG series average 17 years, the 747-400 (excluding 6 ERs) average 18 years, the 767 ZX series 19 years and our fleet of 737-400 also average 19 years old. To put that into comparison, Emirates have an average fleet age of 6 years, Singapore Airlines 6 years, Virgin Blue 5 years and Jetstar just 4 years. The frequent flyers are sick of flying on old aircraft and wonder with amazement why we are insisting on giving the latest and greatest 787 to Jetstar before mainline. Aren’t they supposed to be the low cost arm of the Group?

Due to the recent staff embargo, I had to fly Darwin to Singapore on Jetstar. The flight I flew on was JQ 57, a daily Airbus 321 which replaced the original QF 81/82 mainline service. As you are well aware the target market for Jetstar is the money conscious passengers on a budget. This flight was particularly interesting given the demographic was not budget at all, but full fare passengers who were all going onto Europe. As such I got talking to fellow passengers and asked them their view on services out of Darwin. All were of the unanimous view that they would fly Qantas in a heartbeat, it is just they do not offer NT passengers a choice. The same goes for Cairns passengers who now chose Cathay because of the convenience.

Morale plays an important role in any organisation. Previous Qantas managers have openly stated that the shareholders come before staff. This approach only has limited success until engagement plunges. I recently read an article about how Ralph Norris has taken the Commonwealth Bank to a new and improved level. As the AFR reported, he has undertaken a “people revolution”, this is where more engaged staff leads to more satisfied customers and wealthier investors. 5 years ago his organisation was quoted as being “very hierarchal, bureaucratic and siloed” where there was too much “internal competition instead of focusing on the real competition, the bank’s external rivals. That drove risk-adverse behaviours and a lot of butt-covering.” Today, because of the culture change, the staff engagement now rates at over 75% with retail customer satisfaction at an all time high. The parallels between the CBA and Qantas are so frightfully similar. Mr Clifford, you and other members of the board are filtered as to what really goes on in this organisation because those below you do not want to lose face; this is dangerous. This sort of culture needs to change. The CBA experience though gives us employees hope that change can happen for the better. Engagement can be improved. Trust in management can be rebuilt. The staff will deliver greater benefits for the customers who in turn will reward the shareholders. Management must lead the way.

At a recent briefing given by Alan Joyce and Lyell Strambi, they mentioned the fact that Virgin is charging the Gold Coast passengers a premium because they do not really have any real competition on the route. When mainline pulled off the Gold Coast to Melbourne in 2004, replaced by Jetstar, the patronage for all airlines that year was 836,000. Fast forward to this financial year and the passenger numbers have almost doubled to 1,645,900. Also in the current year the Gold Coast to Sydney route
serviced 2,295,000, making it the fourth busiest route in Australian domestic airspace. Load factors remain well above 80% and Virgin operate 33% more flights than Jetstar does. All in all, in the 2009-10 financial year we have just under 4,000,000 passengers who did not have the opportunity to fly mainline. As not only an employee, but also a shareholder, I am staggered as to how and why we continue to neglect not only one of the busiest air routes, but one of the largest non-Capital city markets by population.

When it comes to our nearest competitor it is no secret that Virgin has grand plans for the domestic market. John Borghetti lived and breathed Qantas passengers for in excess of 3 decades and is certainly in a position to know the customer. Already they have let slip that they have plans for 4 330-200 aircraft with Business class service to match. We know that their target is to gain 20% of the business market, thus I am asking what we will do to counteract it. Passengers know that the 767 are far past their prime. We should be counteracting immediately with its retirement and the putting on of more 330s to Perth. For every 1 passenger that flies Virgin business class, this is 1 passenger we risk losing to our competitor.

Mr Clifford, the Australian public want to travel on Qantas, not just to London or Frankfurt but to other great cities of the world. I am realistic enough to know that we cannot service a substantial amount of European ports or US cities, but I am also acutely aware that we can be doing a lot better than we really are. The Australian public want to travel Qantas however are not given the opportunity to do so. In the year 2000, Qantas International flew over 64.879 Billion ASKs and had over 34% of the international passenger market, this year we flew only 60.608 Billion ASKs or 7% less than 10 years ago, as a result our market share has fallen to under 20%.

My father is a life time gold Qantas frequent flyer. He was a platinum flyer for many years, so much so he was invited on the inaugural Los Angeles to Brisbane flight. Although subsequent family circumstances have meant he has cut down flying a lot, at his peak he had well over 1,000,000 frequent flyers points, enough for 4 first class return tickets to London. Even now he is getting frustrated that he cannot fly Qantas on his points (even the any seat function was not available), because we don’t offer such opportunities. An example of this was our recent trip to Ireland, whilst he was able to come up on the QF 29 to London, he had to fly home on Finnair via Helsinki to Bangkok and then Jetstar to Melbourne because Qantas was not available.

Qantas management throughout the years have spoken of our continual inability to have enough cash flow to fund new aircraft at the rates which we want. Having the finance degree under my belt and having studied well over 50 airline financial reports it is certainly understandable. At the recent meeting Mr Joyce held in Brisbane highlighted the great capital expenditure in the coming years. At this briefing the CEO also mentioned that Qantas and Jetstar are two separate companies that fund everything individually. You can imagine though the disappointment when CASA documents reveal that Qantas are the registered owners of the latest four Jetstar A320 aircraft (VGI, VGJ, VGO, VGP). Why do we continue to fund Jetstar’s fleet?

I fervently believe that despite what the accountants continually espouse, if we provide the passengers with the best experience possible, they will come in droves. The current thinking that Jetstar is our saviour is still unfounded, their dismal profit performance especially during the last 6 months combined with a depreciation of just $17 million, a total that leaves many financial analysts, university professors
and employees scratching their heads has to raise questions as to where this company is really heading. Just because an airline is full service, doesn’t mean it will not make a decent profit. Cathay Pacific is on target for a $1.6 billion profit, Emirates just made over $900 million for the half year and Singapore Airlines is also on track for a billion dollar profit. All full service carriers, all with the right aircraft and route structure to provide for the passenger need.

The accountants have also told us that we need to continue to cuts costs. This began many years ago and in my time has seen us being cut back to the bone. We have done so by pulling off routes (Paris, Rome, Chicago) and it seems their philosophy is that we can make money by cutting costs. The revenue opportunities are out there and instead of cutting costs we should be fighting for that revenue. The group’s selling and marketing expenditure was $572 million, yet I cannot remember any major Qantas advertising campaigns being run.

The reason I have flown on numerous airlines is because I could not fly on mainline – my preferred airline. On occasions I have flown in economy with Qantas because the flights were full. Whilst people groan and moan about having to fly economy, ours is certainly one of the best out there and I think we should be promoting it. Endless entertainment, relatively comfy seats (including the extra wide Airbus seats) and plenty of food and snacks, certainly puts us ahead of the game of the likes of Cathay and Thai. Moreover, I have it from a Cathay source that they are actually going to replace their economy seats because they are not comfy. I think we should be celebrating the fact that we are a full service carrier that is all inclusive. Although no marketing expert, I have even thought up a TV advert that pokes a bit of jovial fun at our low cost competitors by celebrating that fact that we are a full service carrier.

Qantas’s network used to circumnavigate the globe in both directions. Whilst I don’t see us returning to ports such as Acapulco or Bermuda, there are definitely plenty of opportunities out there available including,
1. Brisbane - Bangkok – Rome, Melbourne – Bangkok – Athens: Currently mainline code shares with Cathay Pacific on its Rome service. Both original Rome and Athens services always had good patronage but the aircraft were never the most fuel efficient. The service would be operated by A330-200 which has the range out of Bangkok with oxygen requirements are met by flying via the Gulf and the old Red 19 route. The flight would operate out of Melbourne 3 times a week and Brisbane 2 times a week. At present, mainline only has a presence in Bangkok via the QF 1. By having flights out of Melbourne and Brisbane we are providing our customers which a choice between Thai Airways and ourselves and also opens up a new Asian hub. This also has the added advantage of allowing passengers to complex in Bangkok and thus free up seats on the domestic network. It also allows 2 additional European destinations for our network.
2. Hong Kong – Beijing: For a while there we used to operate Sydney direct Beijing with Shanghai on alternating days, since then we have pulled out of Beijing all together to go daily Shanghai. Due to our revised complex network announced a few months ago we now have a 330 aircraft sitting idle on the tarmac in Hong Kong all day (due to arriving at 6am and departing just before midnight). As you know it costs the aircraft money to sit around all day. The idle aircraft could be operated to Beijing, sit there for a few hours then head back to Hong Kong in time to complex with not only the Perth or Brisbane service but the QF 128 also.
3. Sydney – Dubai – London: Just fewer than 1 million passengers passed through Dubai airport in the last financial year enroute to Australia and we have our biggest competitor with no competition against it. Instead of having a double daily Singapore – London we can have the QF 31 go via Dubai. Alternatively just have a daily service which could link up with 1 of 3 British Airways flights onto London.
4. Hobart – Sydney: Presently 6 flights per day across all carriers on this route yet only serviced once by mainline mid-morning. Hobart is the not only the capital but commercial hub of Tasmania and every time the Virgin Blue flight departs at 5pm for Sydney it is comprised mainly of business people.
5. Cairns – Darwin – Singapore: Change from Jetstar to mainline and remove one of the Qantaslink flights for reasons already described above.
6. Darwin – Bali: A market that seems to not be able to have enough capacity so much so that Air Asia have recently announced that will commence flying the route. Not all Bali passengers are in for a cheap holiday and this route could easily be serviced by mainline. Jetstar already have 10 services per week. 3 of these services could be returned to mainline or even seasonal. By complexing in Darwin, the flight could upload complexing Qantas passengers from Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne flights.
7. Cairns – Tokyo: Despite the Jetstar management spin, the Japanese do not fly low cost. It is not in their culture as demonstrated by the fact that there is not one low cost carrier who is or has successfully operated in and around Japan. Recent experience I had in August proved that mainline was the preferred choice of Japanese travellers given the fact the QF 21/22 was near capacity and both Jetstar flights to Australia were half empty. In the past this route was operated with an inappropriate aircraft and was doing well with the 330 until the route was gifted to Jetstar.
8. Brisbane/ Sydney – Cairns: Load factors are always high on both routes (82.7% exactly for both) especially on weekends. In the 2009/10 financial year on the Brisbane Cairns route, Qantas mainline had zero flight cancellations and the best OTP out of the competing airlines. Back in the old days the QF 69 used to operate Brisbane – Cairns – Tokyo. By having a 330 on this route it could do something similar by allowing more capacity whilst maintaining a good frequency. Consequently this allows a 737 to be freed up for additional flying.
9. London – Dublin: Classed as the 4th busiest air route within Europe and with an airport that handles close to 20 million passengers per year, this is a perfect route to utilise our aircraft on down time in London Heathrow. The airport is the largest in Ireland and can be used by Qantas passengers who don’t like the terminal transit at London Heathrow.
10. Cairns – Hong Kong: A route that was originally tried by Australian Airlines however closed down when the airline did. Since then Cathay Pacific has taken up the slack increasing its services from 5 per week to daily. This service could be used to supplement the Brisbane run on
alternate days and be used to provide additional patronage to the Beijing service.
11. Brisbane – Nadi: Currently Qantas does not operate any services to Fiji as these are done in association with Air Pacific. That being said despite the country’s troubles, it is seen as a family friendly destination as opposed to the budget traveller. Given the 737s are normally not working as hard on weekends this is an opportunity to have a weekend service similar to the service that we provide to Noumea.
12. Singapore – Hong Kong: Originally classed as one of our “rice bowl run” flights, the Singapore Airlines and Cathay fares between Singapore and Hong Kong are normally ridiculously priced and the route is ripe for a bit of competition. They, along with Tokyo are the financial hubs of the emerging market that is Asia and demand is always at a premium.
13. Shanghai – Europe: We already have a daily service to the business and cultural centre of China. This is another great potential stepping stone en-route to Europe.
14. The Honolulu hub: Many years ago Qantas used to make Honolulu a hub for its American operations because the 767 did not have the range and we did not have enough aircraft to serve the west coast directly. The 744 is currently too big for a daily service on routes such as Sydney- San Francisco or Brisbane – Los Angeles, thus I propose re-introduction of the Honolulu hub although this time using new Airbus 330s. We can still maintain our daily QF 107 and QF 93 out of east coast to Lax direct however in addition to these services we also have a flight departing Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne bound for Honolulu. Once they land, they can complex to different destinations such as Los Angeles, Vancouver, San Francisco, Chicago, New York or Dallas. The Honolulu routes are already in the flight planning system and when comparing a 747-400 versus a 330-200, the latter saves 100,000kg of fuel over the route per trip. Additional savings come from reduced crew requirements. The Brisbane passengers know that they always cop the oldest aircraft in the fleet and certainly are not happy about it. We can utilise new 330 aircraft with the latest entertainment which will certainly go a long way to appeasing the passengers. Moreover, it allows passengers to avoid the dreaded Los Angeles customs.
15. Rockhampton/ Mackay: These two regional Queensland centres have become Mecca’s with the growth in the mining boom. Both are serviced by Dash 8 aircraft but with the influx of funds is a possibility for a jet service from Brisbane morning and afternoon. No overnights are required as they both depart Brisbane early in order to pick up the passengers for an early arrival back that would enable morning meetings.
16. The Gold Coast: For reasons mentioned above. Gold Coast to Sydney at least 5 times a day, Gold Coast to Melbourne at least 4 times a day and a daily Gold Coast Perth service.
17. Defence force contracts: A few years ago no one had ever heard of Strategic airlines. They grew from nothing to become the primary civilian troop carrier. There must be some lucrative perks to operating such defence services as Strategic has built itself up to a 330/320 fleet. There was once a time when we ferried troops on our 767 aircraft via Singapore and Dubai. Given we now have spare capacity and pilots, this would be a perfect opportunity to fly our troops to and from the middle east.

Some of the above routes such as Brisbane to Fiji, Hong Kong – Beijing and Cairns – Darwin- Singapore can be utilised using current fleet by better fleet management. The additional use helps reduce costs
because it adds to the ASKs. Moreover, given the fact we have many pilots being paid to do little flying, from a flight operations point of view the costs are minimal. The remaining routes can be done using new aircraft, funded by the additional flying undertaken.

I mentioned earlier that for some reason we made the decision not to invest in the 777. Hindsight is a wonderful thing however at the moment the airline seems to be putting a lot of eggs in the 787 basket. The aircraft is years behind in its delivery date, the 767s continue to age and as such we have no real
plan except cross our fingers that the 767s can hold out. Airlines such as Emirates say that realistically the 787 is not for them and Emirates President Tim Clark actually has stated that the 777 and 380 will become the mainstay of their fleet. Given that the 787s are going to be given to Jetstar first, perhaps it is time we invested in the 777. It is already in service, has a proven track record when it comes to operational costs (including a 30% more efficient burn than the 744 for the same passenger load) and the aircraft can be fitted out with the same interior we presently have on our Airbus 380 fleet. The consolidated fleet of 737, 777, 330 and 380 provides a good mix of flexibility, range and allows us to shift growth as and when required. The 777 will allow us to open up new routes to Dallas, Sydney-New York and London – Perth; non-stop to Australia would be a big coup for the national carrier.

Qantas is at a crossroads, we are heading in an unknown direction with the employees fearing another Ansett type situation. As staff we get up every day and do our best to look after our customers. Many go above and beyond what is required and they do that because they care. Not only for the airline but genuine warmth is something that you cannot train into many foreign nationalities. All employees want to help to ensure not only that this airline succeeds but provides a future for themselves and a carrier for their nation. They do though want to know that their efforts will lead somewhere and it is up to the company executives to provide guidance on where we are going. Cathay’s staff motto is to be the most admired airline in the world. I think ours should be something like, Fly Qantas – because you deserve the best.

By engaging your staff the rewards will follow, Ralph Norris has adopted this approach at the Commonwealth Bank and they are reaping the rewards. Qantas management too has the ability to lead the way. If they look after their staff, then we will continue to help return this airline to being the pinnacle of world aviation.

I hope you take this correspondence in the spirit that it has been written in and I look forward to any feedback

[Worrals in the wilds]

We have a number of departments within Engineering where lost customer contracts have left our members with little work. Ditching contracts has not saved them money becasue the staff numbers are the same. How about we get those workforces busy again by picking up as much customer work as possible.
It was management who dumped those, wasn't it? Certainly the guys at this particular port were horrified, they liked having the international work and wanted as many contracts as possible. As you say, the staff numbers weren't decreased so all it appears to have done is help out Cathay Engineering's plans for world domination.

Out of interest, what was the thought process behind that strategy in the first place? Was there actually a plan?

As for the international business, I agree with assassin8. My rants about promised special meals that never arrived have been long and frequent :zzz: so I won't repeat them, but when many other international airlines flying into Australia charge the same or less for a basic FCC service and Qantas doesn't provide that service despite promising it, it's a pretty simple choice from a passenger's perspective.

Also, cheer up the check in staff. It's not everyone (some QF CS are absolutely lovely people, in and outside work) but the prevailing staff attitude every time I've checked in with QF international has been like something out of Bertolt Brecht's Fear and Misery in the Third Reich. It's a lousy start to a flight, particularly when your meal has been ballsed up (sorry, I'll stop now) and the cow behind the counter literally keeps filing her nails and refuses to make eye contact while breaking the happy news. :mad:

If the sub-sub contractors doing the same work for other airlines, who are badly trained and earn an absolute pittance for their split shifts can manage to smile, surely this lot can too!

The poster advised the reply consisted of a 3 LINE RESPONSE which said Clifford was satisfied with his Managements performance.:ugh:
At the end of the day Steve (and the rest of us), this sums up what will happen to any suggestions you make. They think they're doing an awesome job, it's just all those pesky staff and the rest of the known universe who think they suck. They probably consider that the falling share price is just further evidence that People Don't Understand Them.

[sisemen]

I don't work for QANTAS, I'm merely a paying passenger. I've travelled Virgin and Jetstar (amongst others) on domestic routes but have come back to Q. Why?

1. Reputation for safety
2. Seat price includes everything (no forking out extra for muffins)
3. Goes where I want to go at the right times

Downsides?

1. Can, sometimes, be significantly more expensive which can be a tipping point.

2. Old, tired aircraft with limited in-flight entertainment (East to West coast and vice versa is a long flight - longer than some "international" flights)

3. A perception, recently, that the airline is on the skids. Doesn't do much good for customer confidence.

That's my tuppence worth. Next flight Friday. I'll let you know if anything changed. :\

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Great replies all, keep them coming. The more specific the better.


At the end of the day Steve (and the rest of us), this sums up what will happen to any suggestions you make. They think they're doing an awesome job, it's just all those pesky staff and the rest of the known universe who think they suck. They probably consider that the falling share price is just further evidence that People Don't Understand Them


They may want to ignore suggestions today but you never know what is around the corner. The owners may have a clean out and want a board who are interested in the place to take over. I have no doubt that 35,000 people want Qantas to do well, its just a few who are in it for the short term that are causing all the damage.

[woollcott]

Where does one start?..........

Get rid of the many many teirs of management - once upon a time I had one manager - now I have 5

Get rid of the management nobodies. - take a look at the HR management map - we have "Head of People communications" and "People communication advisers" - can someone tell me what they actually do?

Get rid of consultants. Instead of paying for an opinion that is inverably wrong - listen to your staff. Consultants look on QF as a money spinner.

Get rid of the people who have never ever set foot in a Hangar, yet they try and tell me how to fix Aeroplanes.

Have one area of management talk to the other areas - perfect example: The last issue of Leading edge Magazine carried a full page advert about the benefits of taking leave - yet you cant get leave approved because of manning levels.

Make management accountable for all thier idiotic and stupid decisions. People just shake their heads at some of the absolute stupidity handed down by so called managment. It might save 100 dollars in the short term, but ends up costing 100000 in the long term. The bonus system is partly the culprit.

Have a manager that actually has experience in the field he is employed - not someone from another industry or someone fresh from a business degree

Do not take 22 months to settle a wage claim. And do not spend $150m to save $10m by fighting it

I could go on and on and on and on..........

And they wonder why morale is at an all time low.......

[assasin8]

Steve, as I said, great thread... What we need to do, is make sure management READ this feedback.

I'm sure junior management make their way through these pages, but let's face it, they're probably down the food chain and will simply filter the information back to Big Brother, with something more palatable.

From one of the previous posters, spot on about the HR "people"... What is it they actually do?:confused:

[Xcel]

How about makng the most recognized advertisement and possibly one of the top ten ads Australians can be proud of ring true...

The singing choir - been to cities that no longer are operated by Qantas... With "the spirit of Australia" flown by kiwis...

How about linking all companies as a true group/airline conglomerate. Seniority and progression from Regional to lcc to mainline.

How about providing a service!! You earn money from your customers, which in turn makes a profit for your shareholders. You do not make a profit for your shareholders and with the left overs provide an inadequate service.

How about investing in well researched and long term innovative products and services instaed of making decisions based on the highest kpi return or fringe benefit to said person making the decision.

There are millions of examles of the above and why they needto be rectified and you only need to take a flight and talk to real customers and frequent flyers to realise...

I for one always look at Qantas first when flying anywhere. Its only when I jump online and find that not only do they not fly that route anymore, but they don't have any premium products at all through codeshare and I am "forced" to fly lcc.

Ask anyone on the street honest opinions about any airline and everyone is known as the following:
tiger - always late, often cancelled.
Jetstar - bad service, cramped, want a full service
Qantas - don't fly where I want to go and forced elsewhere
virgin - oh their alright... (alright wins as there is no other choice)

unless you fly syd-Mel and even then it's not a happy experience

['holic]

Good idea for a thread, Steve.

Open and transparent accounting
All aspects of financial reporting between the various groups need to be completely seperate, not just where it suits management. That way we can identify exactly where efficiencies can be gained and which parts are indeed profitable. You can't fix the problem if you can't identify what it is.

Stop transferring work from mainline
Why is maintenance being sent o/s when we could utilise our own engineering. Why aren't 767 pilots who are being paid to do nothing used for the freighter flying? Stop the idiotic mindset that work is given to the lowest bidder, even if that bidder is an outside company and revenue leaves the group.

Aircraft allocations
Why are the first 787s being given to JQ Asia, who have been unprofitable, to be used on unproven new routes with low yield pax, when one of the major issues with mainline is the old aircraft it uses. To me, it seems patently obvious to use older aircraft for low yield, cost driven pax and use newer aircraft for the premium pax. Apparently the board doesn't agree.

Get rid of useless infrastructure and management
What does the PR department do apart from tell lies about the employees? Why do you need a whole department to think up the truth? How many different consulting groups do we need to advise us? What are the managers these consulting groups are advising actually doing?

Restore confidence

Staff ....
The only way management can ever expect to re-engage with the unions is to restore confidence that they are actually managing QF competently and that they are willing to act in good faith. Oh and stop lying to us, and stop lying to other people about us.

Passengers ....
Safety used to be a major strength of the brand. Because of poor management decisions we have seen a massive drop in confidence in the safety of the airline. As I've said elsewhere, our maintenance standards need to be a cut above everyone else because the media crucifies us whenever we have a tech issue, no matter how trivial.

The public ....
In recent times we have seen the Qantas brand name dragged through the mud due to the ill conceived strategies senior management have taken. The Jetconnect court case made them appear as though they were cooking the books, the Senate Inquiry made them appear evasive and misleading and the backflip over the Jetstar cadet basing made them appear as though they were avoiding Australian tax and employment laws. Qantas used to epitomise the meaning of excellence and integrity, now our management appear to the public to be a group of shady con men. How much damage have they done to Qantas?

[Piano Man]

Out of curiousity, if QF went down the 777 route (we all wish), would they go 9 abreast economy seating ala BA, SQ, CX, or would they go the 10 abreast like EK, AF etc?

[Redpanda]

Rename the executive management group with,

"The Center Of Excellence"

We all know they'll be outsouced in six months...................:ok:

[The Green Goblin]

Out of curiousity, if QF went down the 777 route (we all wish), would they go 9 abreast economy seating ala BA, SQ, CX, or would they go the 10 abreast like EK, AF etc?

They can't go down the 777 route.

They'd be making so much money, their entire strategy of destroying Qantas because it's costs are too high would be unraveled.

The failure to buy 777s is irresponsible, destructive, negligent and incompetent.

Ter be sure, ter be sure :ugh:

Don't worry though, Bruce will get 'em for Jetstar to compete with SIA :mad:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

What about Exec salaries. Is any man worth more than a million a year?

CEO $1m
CFO $750k
and so on.

I don't buy this garbage about offering the best Exec wages to attract the best Executives. Look what we have attracted in the last 10 years. I think there has to be some limit to this excess. If we started at the above levels from the top down I am certain $50m per annum could be saved and I'm sure the management of the airline could only improve.

[Short_Circuit]

Agreed. The pay of over $1M should be reserved for those digging minerals & bankers, the ones delivering Billions in profit to the shareholders, not short sighted money grubbers with no interest in the business they are running. :ugh:

[Ultergra]

Why is it, when the CEO or board have their wages challenged, they compare their potential income based on NY or London... Yet when it comes to pilot wages, they compare it to asian countries or india?

[Worrals in the wilds]

Cos they think the employees are Roolly Stoopid...otherwise wouldn't they become managers? :rolleyes:

Have a manager that actually has experience in the field he is employed - not someone from another industry or someone fresh from a business degree...

Or even get dangerously proactive with a program for experienced staff who want to be managers, where they can get company support (even if it's just study leave and access to company resources for projects) to study management 101 and then become managers who 1. have the business degree and 2. have the experience as well! Far more long term and practical than paying for all those blow ins who don't know one end of an aircraft from the other (apologies if Qantas already has this sort of thing? I've never heard it mentioned by anyone who works there...)


I have no doubt that 35,000 people want Qantas to do well,

Many, many more than that. It's not just Qantas employees who are concerned about this stuff.

[Ngineer]

How about advertising. Plain and simple. Just take a look at Virgin's advertising campaign. No wonder we are failing (although I think it is deliberate). All we have had lately is bad press.

Since the orange people have taken over the reigns, they have been shoving jet* down every Australian's throat, and have neglected advertising the premium product. What ever happened to the Aussie choir singing the company's anthem??? The only add I have seen lately is a few seconds long with a piece of fruit on it! Who was the Einstein that composed that one???:ugh:

And how about listening to staff ideas. There is no conduit for idea's for this company. I can think of a few good ones, but won't be posting them on this thread.

[Ngineer]

Oh, and staff engagement would probably go a long way.

[The The]

Speaking of advertising. Thursdays Sydney Morning Herald for example. Page 3 or so, a 1/2 page ad for Jetstar. A few pages later, a FULL page ad for Jetstar, oh yeah and happy 7th birthday Jetstar!

Not a single Qantas ad in the whole paper!

Can't even remember the last time I saw a Qantas ad onTV?

Qantas does have a nice big billboard next to the airport, but by the time you get there, you have already bought your ticket - on a different airline!!!

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Was going to say resume advertising but someone has beat me to it! Qantas simply DON'T advertise anymore. This fact is a clear indication that senior management have absolutely no intention of allowing Qantas to succeed.

[hadagutfull]

Well this is just the sort of thread we need.... A chance for staff to show their real worth...

As for some think tank ideas for fixing this airline......

*We are paid X amount of dollars to work for 8 or 10 or 12 hours per day. We should be used for all of that time whether it be looking after Jetstar or any other other operator coming to this country.... there is a cash cow sitting there waiting to be exploited.

*Man all Qantas ports overseas with Qantas staff... also picking up customer contracts in those ports to justify/ cover the expense of having our own staff in low frequency ports. Seems to work for BA/CX/UA around the world.

*Stop feeding our customers to Jetstar... paint some A320,s in our colours and have them connect with our fights through SIN/BKK to service popular SE asian destinations. QF owns 49 percent of Jetstar asia, why are we pumping that airline??

*Build a heavy maint/ eng overhaul facility with grants from the government. This will provide job security and an influx of new recruits to the industry.

*Im not sure of the costs, but the 744 is not a bad aircraft ( running costs aside, and as a short term fleet issue) , but to please the punters a refresh of Y class with a bit more room and a good reliable IFE system will keep them coming back. This needs to be done quick till any fleet renewal options are looked at. Let them see and experience why they are paying extra to travel with Qantas!

*Employ inspirational leaders as managers.. people who are willing to look at any new opportunity with an open mind and embracing staff, not deriding them.

*Bonuses should not go to the managers... it should be distributed amongst all staff who contributed to the result, this would allow less wages claims at EBA time, and it would motivate staff to pull out all stops to achieve a positive result.

*A complete review of current route structures.... we have a very good Qantas GROUP network to asian ports, but its just hopeless from there with LHR/FRA as the only options. Lets take back our bread and butter from Jetstar and keep them out of europe.

**ADVERTISE!!! -- All i see is Jetstar, Emirates, SIA billboards and commercials. Start pushing the product here and abroard...

Open the airline up to the public.... so many people are fascinated with the airline industry, have more open days, aircraft inspections, sim visits, tarmac tours.. let people see what we all do and how we do it. At the moment it resembles a communist gulag... information censoring, lies, cooked books and mistrust.

These are off the top of my head and also based on what I hear from regular passengers... and I can say with out hesitation, most of the people who are forced on to jetstar are not happy about it.....

People are watching QF, they have always had a fascination with it as an iconic company.. and are wanting to support it.. but the management need to come up with something fresh, unique and AUSTRALIAN.

Anything we do to fix this airline will take a significant investment, but it will reap rewards. To do nothing will only end up in a disaster.

No one will win!
I know these are just ideas in these threads... but ideas are where genius starts.

[BeerMan]

Steve,

Great post.

With regard to what we call QANTAS, it should be a "PREMIUM" airline, not LEGACY.

In line with this, and contrary to some posters who suggest we need to focus on cutting costs and reducing fares, we should be giving reasons for customers to justify paying that little bit more... by offering a premium product.

QANTAS has been far too reactive... they need to be on the front foot; innovate and lead the pack. Offer modern aircraft, superior service, meal of choice in business and first.

This requires a visionary leader... something QANTAS don't have. They need to look for somebody who can lead and motivate the frontline staff and somebody who understands the concept of being an industry leader!

[Ngineer]

*Im not sure of the costs, but the 744 is not a bad aircraft ( running costs aside, and as a short term fleet issue) , but to please the punters a refresh of Y class with a bit more room and a good reliable IFE system will keep them coming back.

And maybe some guys to keep the IFE system running properly. I don't think the local managers have realised yet that it takes a couple of extra guys on shift to work on the system fleetwide. IFE can be a labor intensive system.

[hadagutfull]

Ngineer.. I agree.

Will be interesting to see the stats on IFE reliability since our guys have been involved.

[The Black Panther]

1.Proportion the advertising budget according to revenue contribution.

2.In XXX the domestic terminal is a sacred virgin. The labor excesses is just bull$hit yet management sit back and do nothing because some manager is getting a FAT BONUS due it domestic on time departure KPI. The lame less tarmac is coming Virgin use it so does Jetstuk we may as well embrace but still have enough rovers to keep on-time departure No1 in Australia. That's seems to be keeping our market share but the domestic need a rocket in there labor allocation. I see a 12 hour LAME with 3.5 allocated transits.....just bull$hit !! At the Int we are 70-80% allocated.

3. Customer contracts. PHUCKME Cancel redundancies and get rid of customer contracts = Dissolve revenues and keep costs. Any monkey with a desire of peanuts would surely work out out this decision is not that sharp. Which tosser in Sydney decided to get rid of the customers and keep the expenses. Use excess domestic labor and move them the international terminals to provide arms and legs for the customer contracts. There's plenty of INT boys with B777 and A340 approvals to act at licences while others provide arms and legs and yes you shiny ar$e sparkies may have to change a wheel now and then because SIA and MH don't use Rockwell so you won't have much to do.

That will do for now.

[indamiddle]

from the lh cabin crew_
punters tired of tired old a/c....767, tv screens in the ceiling showing 1 program, each in different colours! .....747 ife so bad that pax would be happy to see anything on the screen!
pax are also ticked off being forced to fly jetstar.... to ool, bkk from mel etc. they are now choosing to fly thai and other (virgin) PREMIUM airlines.
flat beds in j/c, we are so far behind our competitors

from cc perspective_
we have so many managers but the only way to get a meeting with them is to waylay them at the coffee shop across the road and around the corner from QCC.
give us enough meals in premium and economy so that passengers get their choice from the menu.
handing out clause 11's (official warning) like confetti for trivial offences doesn't engender engagement. neither does 'summer school' for the csm and css' that management want to be rid of seem to be working, particularly when the shiny noses are running the courses.

my rant over.
must be hundreds of other issues i've not mentioned but time for a beer

[Sunfish]

ALAEA Fed Sec = "Not Dead, just sleeping"

"Legacy" is something you have to look after but produces nothing and you cannot kill it off, so you let is die a natural death by starving it.

Hence "Legacy Aunt". Old person.

[The Black Panther]

Engage your employees and experience.
I stand in my smoko room and there is +100 years experience standing around me.

These employees (zero cost consultants) appear to have correctly predicted B777 should have been chosen over the A330.
They also suggested Panasonic was a better choice to Rockwell.
They suggested the A330 should be used on the International routes when management initially decided they were domestic only.
Never buy the first of a the model type and avoud mixing manufacturers in your fleet.

CONSULT EMPLOYEES NOT THE CIGAR SMOKERS OR THIRD PARTY CONSULTANTS, ACTUALLY MOVE AMONGST THE FLOOR AND SPEAK TO THOSE WHO USE THE TOOLS AND WORK ON THESE SYSTEMS EVERY DAY.

If a consultant has cost you dollars and failed to deliver a positive outcome PHUKTHEMOFF! ie. Oldmedow consulting $150mil to save $5mil ????

Get rid of the multiple levels of management and replace it with accountability and reward or penalty system.

[buggerme]

Great idea Steve, but unfortunately a pipe dream, as long as we have AJ and company on board none of these great ideas will ever come to fruition, even if we manage to get rid of them, who's going to step up? Some other inspirational leader that when he sees what's on offer he will have his nose in the trough and we will be back to the same old crap that's what's happening just now. Don't know what the answer is, normally i'm a guy who thinks the glass is half full, but the last ten or so years has been very dis-heartening and i can't see a light at the end of the tunnel unless the govt. steps in or we have a major catastrophy [ god forbid ]. Mr Joyce it's time to leave and take the rest of your #rse lickers with you.

[BP2197]

Don't shoot me for this but I have been wondering why the company is so keen to outsource so I have been playing with the maths. Firstly, lets ignore the quality side, we all know where we stand on that.

If I earn $120k pa (incl super etc) and I work 38hrs a week for 52 weeks a year that is 1,976 hrs. Now reduce that by five weeks holiday, some DILs etc and we are down to around 1,700 hours. At work, I'm on the tools for say 75% of the time (meal breaks, training, chatting to the tool crib operator, sick days etc - lets be honest it is probably less than that). So my total hours spent wrenching on an aircraft is about 1,200 a year. My rate per hour of productive time is therefore $120,000/1200 = $100/hr.

Now, I'm told rule of thumb for Asian outsource is $50 an hour US - at the moment say $45 Aussie. Remember that in this, they are paying their staff, overheads and theoretically making a profit.

If a 744 D check requires 30,000hrs the cost of doing it offshore would be $1.35m whereas doing it here would potentially be $3.0m ($1.65m gap...). Even taking into account a ferry flight and fixing defects on its return, I can see that the numbers aren't in our favour.

I want the work to remain here. Fed Sec, how can we ensure this happens?

[AWB_Clerk]

How about fixing the computers that engineers use in the planning huts?

Not a day goes by when you are under the pump and walk up to a computer to find it doesn't work. The amount of time wasted hiking over to another hut to find a PC that will print or just look something up, or waiting for a computer to become available to use must surely be inefficient. By my reckoning it's 1 in 3 that don't work.

All this push recently to "Go Green" and recycle your old mobile phone (a wank considering how much carbon the airline industry creates for the planet) should go into taking the PC's that dont work, salvaging parts and putting together machines that work. Sure new shiny machines with flat screens are nice, but aren't we trying to save a buck here?

What is going to happen when we become even more reliant on PC's when the new MX system is bought in and people cant do anything because there are not enough working PC's for everyone to use??

[assasin8]

Just think, this invaluable insight and information is FREE! Not one cent paid to greedy "consultants"...

Will the company use it? Well, first they'd have to admit they were wrong on so many counts!

I won't be holding my breath...:hmm:

[breakfastburrito]

BP2179, well done, you have clearly annunciated the [unstated] goal of globalisation - the importation of third world terms & conditions for workers to the first world.

[Mr.Buzzy]

You can't fix something that has long been taken out back and shot. The gravy train started slowing up when Impulse became bed partners.
Good luck folks, sincerely.

bbbbbzzzzzzzbzzzzzzzz

[ejectx3]

This......
Qantas add-on fees soar sky-high | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-add-on-fees-sky-high/story-e6frfq80-1226071160727)
is a disgrace for a full service airline....

So Bruce says to Alan, "Mate we are finally making money by charging our suckers for everything from muffins to the air they breathe!"

Alan...."mate I'm on to it, can't think of any negative reprecutions of that strategy in a full service airline" :ugh:

[stubby jumbo]

Can some one answer this question:

Why the hell is LG and her team searching for a new business model for the international business (aka Qantasia)???

When we read this gem in the preceding NEWS article:

QANTAS is one of the worst airlines in the world for add-on fees, a surprising report has found.

Hey buddy.....this ain't a surprise.

Its a surprise that the media are finally running with stories like this.

The prestigious brand and past reputation have been effectively flushed down the dunny by these mongrels ...who care little for pax, staff or shareholders ....only the size of their bonus (when it comes-sic !)

LG can search all she likes for the Holy Grail. She ain't going to find /invent it.

BUT,..........we had it darling. When Qantas was a proud, world leading airline with a safety and service reputation second to none.

What is the sound made when a toilet is flushed????/


FFFFLLLLLLOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:cool:

[griffin one]

Quote:
How are they changing the A380 Config?

As far as i know they are getting rid of first class. They told us about a week ago and that the reconfig would be carried out in Manilla. I don't think LT in Manilla have ever worked a 380 but the Qantas Supply department have determined them the best available option

Nice rumor, Maybe call one of the members to find out what exactly the reconfig programme is.

[Gas Bags]

AWB Clerk,

I hear you on the infrastructure thing. One question I would ask though is what have YOU done about it? Have you declared the computers you find broken unserviceable, lodged the IT tickets to get them repaired, reported to your supervisor the status of the computer system, and then followed up to ensure they are repaired and you have a conclusion?

I know it might not be your job but if everybody took an interest in their workplace and made a valid contribution to improvement (even if it is not in their job description), as opposed to sitting in the smoko room complaining while they wait to be given another aircraft job by their supervisor, the small things that can make a busy day unpleasant would dramaticaly decrease.

I am not having a go at you personally and perhaps you have done everything I have just mentioned, I am merely using your post as an example of how we as employees (of any company) can demonstrate flexibility and initiative to improve our own coalface which in turn will impact on the overall efficiancy and profitability of the company we work for.

GB

[Sunfish]

You cannot succeed. You will not be permitted to succeed. The Board and Management have decided you are a "Legacy Airline" and their decision is final.

Why will you not lie down and die?

[Dlink13]

At the shareholder meeting a vote of no confidence in the current board needs to be pushed. Joyce and Clifford are to be axed and a new board who are pro Qantas need to replace the current one. 777s need to replace the older aircraft and a expansion of longhaul routes need to take place to compete with every other progressive forward thinking carrier in the world .

[The Black Panther]

Transfer your Super to a SMSF
Take as much leave as you can or cash it in.
Go to work, come home.
Do this for about 3years.
Look for another employer in the meantime.
Qansett is here, it's just a matter of time.

[stubby jumbo]

Isn't it just a tad ironic that the latest A-380 is called:

SIR REGINALD ANSETT.

Now -I have no issue with this ....as he was an AUSTRALIAN airline executive/pioneer.

But in light of what is happening with the IRISH airline "executive"......mmmmmmmmm:ugh:

[The Black Panther]

It's almost comical to see the rogue and kamikaze unions leaders being blamed for this mess.

As we have seen before the average pay for a Qantas employee is just shy of the CPI in the last 10 years (you can got back further) thanks to a pay freeze around 911 and SARS period, yet it seems we are to blame.

I can certify for no less than 5 types and earn marginally better than a Virgin LAME on 1 type but we are told we are too expensive. We have HM guys with years of experience and are worth their weight in gold when it comes to efficiencies and skills.

I can see the why we are losing money and it's not from excessive pay rises it's from years of farcical management decisions that equate to have a camp fire with one hundred dollar bills.

Good luck Steve but surely your head is hurting :ugh:

[Oldmate]

Maybe, just maybe, the Fed Sec knows something that is occurring behind the scenes. Maybe he has been talking to a potential CEO replacement, who could be gathering info on how to fix the mess? This thread may be the opportunity to get great ideas to where they can be used to do some good.

Naive and overly optimistic, maybe, but keep great ideas coming, just in case..

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Yes the head is hurting but it needs to be done. In about a week I will write a summary of the best parts of this thread. Hopefully we can then build on it to build the airline back to what it should be.

[TIMA9X]

I will write a summary of the best parts of this thread.Look forward to that. For me, by selling the orange star to focus back on Q is the only answer. It must be obvious to all, but not the current managers and their mates in the business press.

Either sell J*or it's going to be Qansett.

[breakfastburrito]

by selling the orange star to focus back on Q is the only answer
Unfortunately this is exactly what the managers are hoping for. Think of it this way, good bank, bad bank. All the goodies are stuffed into the "good bank", and all the toxic waste into the "bad bank".

Qantas is now chock full of the jetstar start-up & opportunity costs (old fleet), and so, ailing. Jetstar, on the other hand has all the goodies (new fleet, routes, landing & terminal slots). If Jetstar is to be sold off, it will be purchased by private equity (KKR?), and all the execs will be in the lifeboat. The toxic waste farm (QF) will be flogged off to the widows & orphans or re-nationalised or put to death.

[ampclamp]

So much has to change.

1/ leadership (not a boss) that can instill trust, reinvigorate the brand and public profile.
2/ Stop fighting your staff
3/ refresh the product ( projectors, hi 8, vhs and cassetttes tapes.How embarrassing)
4/ A forensic examination of the empires , rent seeking committees useless layers of bosses , hangers on ... plenty of fat there and it includes plenty in engineering and surrounding areas.
5/ Fly places you can reach and get home reliably with everything the customers check in.
6/ Buy the right aircraft.
7/ Have Qantas fly to places people want to go to, not just have to fly to.
8/ Offer VR. There are plenty of people marking time just going thru the motions (although that does not suit the current industrial for various reasons)
9/ Cut the bull$#@! stuff. fed sec touched on this. Whoever the idiot who signed off on those ridiculous mirrored cards should be sacked yesterday. Also the farcical "quality course". Paying staff O/T to sit thru eight hours of utter crap that WILL NOT alter one behaviour is errant and wasteful nonsense. It just reinforces the view management are out of touch with reality.
10/ Truly engage the staff. Use that massive resource to your advantage. ( Tell him he's dreaming) At present you tens of thousands of staff telling the public the place aint what it was and a lot worse.
11/ Separate Jetstar. Make them earn their required return on captital as if they had to pay for everything they buy and use. Jetstar has a place. Keep it in its place and stop the cannabilisation.
12/ Stop carrying JQ on QF and vice versa, Customers hate it.
13/ Stop spending money on a new HQ. So many places it could go that would be more productive.
14/ With the assistance of the AIPA and ALAEA lobby govt for better depreciation schedules for aircraft to compete with other tax regimes
15/ Piss off the consultants. If excom, or whoever, cant run the show properly they do not have the skills and should be sacked.
16/ Do not go down the path of hidden extras charges. All it does is piss customers off. Apply reasonable but strict baggage limits and APPLY them.
17/ If procedures need to change consult the staff about how it will be done in such a way it meets the company needs and staff are redistributed or offered VR.
18/ Ensure staff have the required training to do everything required of them. ie one person to do a job not 2 or 3 because they cant sign etc.

Just a few. many covered some not. Good luck.

[73to91]

8/ Offer VR. There are plenty of people marking time17/ If procedures need to change consult the staff about how it will be done in such a way it meets the company needs and staff are redistributed or offered VR.and do not allow the 'brain dead' managers take the money and leave on Friday and come back on Monday on a contract, apparently this is happening all the time.

13/ Stop spending money on a new HQ. yes, some brain dead CEO must have signed off on that one!

Fed Sec - maybe a brief summary could be posted to each board member other than the Chairman and AJ by Tuesday or Wednesday so they had it in their hands in time for the board meeting next Thursday.

[h.o.t.a.s.]

Introduce an Employee Share Ownership Scheme.

It has been floated and shot down many times before on this forum and in others, but using the model of Southwest Airlines' Scheme, you can empower employees and give them something to much more directly gain or lose through the implementation of their ideas and knowledge (someone has suggested the value of the 'free' consultancy that could be gained from the intrinsic institutional and industrial knowledge possessed by employees).

What better way to have workers truly striving towards achieving the most efficient, desirable, and inspiring 'PREMIUM' carrier that consistently delights and excites their customers.

Go easy on me... I'm allowed to dream :hmm:

[TIMA9X]

it will be purchased by private equity (KKR?)breakfastburrito, you are spot on.
It appears that's the plan anyway, probably why Clifford defended AJ in the press recently, he probably knows people can see through the cover now. I have no hard copy re KKR, but I concur with you, this is what I am hearing as well, the people privy to the plans are worried about the timing, other words the real delivery date for the B787. On another thread Japan plays an important role as many parts for B787 have been delayed because of the recent natural disaster. I noted in the press re Toyota, who have suffered so much because of manufacturing delays it has dented their world wide market share figures. In a sense the same applies to these alleged plans by Clifford and co. I doubt AJ can continue to fund all the J*setup/development costs that is bleeding Q dry much longer, I believe we are not too far away from someone in the know spilling the beans. I suppose we need to keep the pressure up on this angle. Here's hoping!

[empire4]

here are some thoughts,



Pilot, Engineer and Flight Attendant fleet pay.
SO's are apprentices of the flight deck, they should be paid that way. Why is a 20 yo SO being paid 50% more than a LAME of 10 years?
No Ops managers
If fleet pay was implemented, train all Engineers on all aircraft. Your productivity and utilization would be at a maximum.
Introduce Voluteer Advisers from the floor (pilots, engineers, fa's) on to a purchasing board for new aircraft, configurations etc. Boeing did this for the design of the 777 and look at the results.
Give employees more ownership in the company. bonuses should be shares, not cash.

These are just some things i have thought of

[breakfastburrito]

TIMA9X, I have been following the Japanese situation pretty closely since the Tsunami. I don't want to turn it into a 787 thread, but there are a couple of points.


Japanese electricity system. The country is electrically split into two halves, the south operates on 60Hz, the north on 50Hz. There are only 4 interconnect stations between the two. Overall, the Japanese are facing a power loss >15%, however, this could be as high as 30%. However, industry could be forced to reduce usage by much more than these numbers to allow domestic air conditioners to make summer bearable. However, this will not be split evenly between the north and the south, with the north suffering much greater power shortages.

The major damage to electrical infrastructure is in the north. This is not just the generators, but the distribution system as well.

The majority of the B787 composite components appear to be manufactured in the north, and I assume that composites takes large amounts of energy to produce, not sure of its source. I also assume the jigs & ovens cannot be readily relocated.

Fukishima is going from bad to worse. There is now official confirmation that 3 cores have melted and are sitting under the plant as corium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)). This occurred only 5 hours after the Tsunami (TEPCO's own number was 15 hours). They have known this all along. They are going to continue to dribble out more bad news to keep it off the front page.


So, in short, if I were to have a bet, on the balance of probabilities, the production rate for the 787 is going to be dramatically affected, on the information we have at hand. I reserve the right to change this if the facts change. The 787 will be certified, some will be delivered to various operators, however the delivery rate will be a huge problem for the Jetstar strategy. The execs must be sh!tting themselves (if they have actually worked this out). The tide is going out, and we are about to find out who is swimming naked!

[fishers.ghost]

His view on leadership qualities:
Leadership uncommunicated is leadership unrequited
Leadership requires integrity,courage,humility and compassion.
By Cosgrove's definition Qantas management are lacking
Cosgrove is also the Chancellor of the Australian Catholic University

[The Black Panther]

It's ironic that the Fed Sec is trying his hardest to save the mainline business and yet all we get from the CEO and Chairman is head-kicks in the media.

You would think with all the challenges ahead AJ would role up at a EA meeting and say "Look this is the truth, this is where we are and here's our idea to get out of it what's yours?"

No....we will see a PR campaign that will attempt to shift blame on to the pilots and engineers during the forth coming legal industrial action.

Sorry but our situation is not by chance, it's incompetence, it's bad decisions, it's lack of engagement it's years of distrust and bullying and it very sad to see us where we are headed.

[ejectx3]

The idea that s/o's are overpaid is correct IF there is career progression. As it is s/o's stay as s/os for years and years.

[LAME2]

Love Peter Cosgrove and what he has said in the press and his book on leadership.

Unfortunately he will always be tarnished by his presence on the QANTAS Board and the perceived role he has played in this rubbish.

[DaHai]

As an ex QF employee of 23 years, it is frustrating to see how QF is being driven down by, from an outsiders opinion, Senior Management with an apparent agenda to dump the brand. I know others have said this as well. Currently living in China, if I want to fly back to BNE, I can only do this from PVG or PEK. OK that is fair enough. However, the problem is that to book a ticket, I must use a credit card. Being a foreigner I can not obtain a credit card in China, so have to use Aust card, with fare converted to Aust dollars. To collect my ticket, I must go to a QF office (only 1 in Beijing and 1 in Shanghai) and show my card. This means I have to go to Shanghai (closest to the province I live in) a day ahead of travel to be on the safe side (delays/problems et). There is an additional cost in having to do that. Once at the office, I want to pay cash in RMB. Can I use my Chinese bank card. OH NO, we do not have the facility in the QF office. You must go and get cash. Off to the bank, or prior knowledge, I am carrying nearly RMB 10,000 on me. Not really wise carrying a lot of cash anywhere. Flights ex PEK are all via HKG by KA or CX (might as well book CX and stay with the one airline) or China Eastern via SIN (again easier to remain on China Eastern all the way if I am doing that. Flights ex PVG are similar, KA (3)plus Cx (1)might as well be 4 for CX, China Eastern (1) oh and 1 per day by QF. Again I might as well book CX all the way. Choice QF via SYD up to BNE or CX via CNS to BNE. Cairns is so much nicer and easier. Now this is just my situation. But I bet there would be many people (ex pats & locals) who would like to fly to OZ on QF and do not live in Shanghai or Beijing and have to go through this routine.Easier to go to a local travel agent and book direct with alternate carrier and pay with bankcard or Chinese credit card if they have one. Sorry it just seems QF have lost the plot here, and looking at where they don't seem to fly, it feels QF are stuck in the past or being driven somewhere to the detriment of the old QANTAS. Do you remember when the captain used to farewell the pax? Anyway now off topic.

[kellykelpie]

hand's on tits and snatch - agreed, employee ownership is the go!:8

[arkmark]

Just get a new manager who knows what he is doing.

Improve Service

Respect Staff

These three simple things will see passengers coming back.

Why can't I fly Qantas to Bali -- I fly Air Asia every month both ways, and God it's better than Qantas and Virgin combined. The food is almost as good as the flight attendants :)

[Neptunus Rex]

DaHai

Try booking an open return from Qantas in Oz. I used to do that years ago and it was up to 20% cheaper than buying the ticket in Hong Kong for the same flights.

[JETTRONIC]

kick joyce out of the office and move in steve = problem solved.

[Righty Tighty]

Here's a thought,
Take the present CEO,all his under studies,then the group managers,managers,HR consultants etc etc and all the other uni grads that are suppose to run the show,add a few off the floor LAMEs,some line pilots and all go for a Sandakan type march,at the end, see who's left and these are the guys who should be running the show.
I am sure the managers will get together and talk about how they are going to survive and not.The workers will see an oppurtunity.take it and will shine.QF need to go back to listening to the guys off the floor,take there point of views,good or bad but at least listen.
QF could of been the pioneers in 777ER's Syd-Lax if CEO's listen to Pilots and Engineers,less fuel burn,built like brick s**t houses,proven technology,but accountants make these type of decisions:D
Also topped level managers need to get some smoke goggles and have a look through the smoke screen that has been put in place by Dmm's and Base managers of the real story of harrassment and demoralisation that has gone on in engineering over the last 10 years,it's no good sending the fox in to find out who's been killing off the chickens and reporting back up the management tree of shame that all is good.

[DaHai]

Thanks Neptunus Rex. I will look at that.
My frustration was more in line with what one has to go through, to purchase a ticket on QF in China. Not the same problem with Korean, Singapore, Cathay, or China Eastern who can fly ex Guangzhou. Seems thay find it worthwhile but QF seem to think only 1 city ex China (1.3 billion people) is viable.
It just seems QF have lost the way (on purpose as others have already suggested.)

[unionist1974]

The problems with QF Internaional go back over twenty years , it had sruggled for years , always requiring the goverment of the today to inject cash to prevent it going under . It was propped up by legislation that guaranteed QF 50% of the market into and out of Australia . When the Gov't took that prop away, market share statred to fall . In addition there waqs the disasterous reign of the CEO in the mid 80's who spent like a drunken sailor, ordering A/C like no tomorrow not to mention holiday Islands , cruise ships and Hotels . When the recession "we had to have "chimed in, along with the Piots dispute of 89 , QF International was a basket case . Gov't had to put its hand deep in the taxpayers pocket to bail it out . A/C parked up against the fence , Coopers& Lybrand brought in to "assist " management , thousands of redundancies the outcome .
So , the Gov't decided QF International could not survive as it was ,it merged the two publicliy owned airlines and got rid of the merged entity as a drain on the public purse .
The present state of affairs has been a long time coming , it would be very sad to see Charlie Q go under , given the level of bitterness allround it does not look good.
Those who look to the past with rose tinted glasses are fools , Qantas International has always been a battleground for the Unions and management of the day . I could bore you with a litany of disputes right back to the last Pilots strike in 1966 , but whats the point! The die is being set , I only hope those who have good jobs with QF are not on here in the future wailing about the good job I HAD with QF .

[CaptCloudbuster]

Hey Unionist.... You are sounding very much like WK over on QREWROOM. Only problem is you've disappeared after Mike G trumped you!

[whatever6719]

All this talk of QF going under, is quite frankly is ludicrous.
Im sure there are alot of people with axes to grind would love it if we did but its not gonna happen anytime soon.

There is probably alot more chance of Virgin going under than QF. When the end of year reporting season comes around, there will be a BIG difference between the 2 airlines.

Dont for a second think Im defending the current management. They are clearly inept and I wish there was such a thing as a very quick, wide broom to come along and wipe them the hell away from the joint.

I just cant see Australia letting another major airline go under (what would that say about this country's management skills...we'd be a laughing stock)

Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest.

[73to91]

I'll bite:

The problems with QF Internaional go back over twenty years , it had sruggled for years , always requiring the goverment of the today to inject cash to prevent it going under .
Not sure about 'going under' but in 1993 QF received a A$1.35 billion capital injection from the Government

It was propped up by legislation that guaranteed QF 50% of the market into and out of Australia .
No different to many other airlines in the world with 1 international airline per country, can think of only the USA, Japan, China and England that have more than 1 ‘true’ international flag carrier ! so what’s the point?


When the Gov't took that prop away, market share statred to fall . In addition there waqs the disasterous reign of the CEO in the mid 80's who spent like a drunken sailor,
Umm, who was that? John Menadue (86 to 89) and in that period (1986-87) there was record profits made of AUD 63.4 million must have been before Menadue?
Actually looking at the early 80’s, Qantas suffered from large operating losses. After the election of the new Labor (ALP) government in 1983, one of its first actions was to increase Qantas's capital base from AUD 89.4 million to AUD 149.4 million. The airline had been denied adequate capital by the previous government and had been obliged to borrow heavily to maintain its aircraft fleet in a modern, efficient, and competitive form. The government hoped that the injection of new capital would assure the future of Qantas as a wholly owned government enterprise.
ordering A/C like no tomorrow continued from above The new government approved Qantas's largest-ever aircraft order, an AUD 860 million fleet modernization program involving the purchase of three stretched upper-deck Boeing 747s and six of the Extended Range Boeing 767 twin-engine jets
not to mention holiday Islands , now I get it, you are talking about the ‘other’ airline called TAA - TAA holiday resorts were Dunk, Bedarra, Brampton and Great Keppel. Qantas had, umm?
cruise ships Qantas Holidays did actually make an investment in Captain Cook Cruises though
and Hotels . if it’s QANTAS you are talking about, are you talking about the Wentworth Hotel in Sydney? Gee, that has been around since the last 50’s


When the recession "we had to have "chimed in, along with the Piots dispute of 89 ,
How is your history? QANTAS was not on strike in 1989
QF International was a basket case . Gov't had to put its hand deep in the taxpayers pocket to bail it out . A/C parked up against the fence , Coopers& Lybrand brought in to "assist " management , thousands of redundancies the outcome .
this is confusing, that was 1990/1991 wasn’t it? In 1990 Qantas reported a loss as a result of its fleet expansion program. These losses increased during 1990 as a result of the Persian Gulf crisis, and by early 1991 the airline was facing its worst financial situation since its foundation. It was decided to lay off 5,000 employees, sell nine Boeing 747s earlier than planned, and cut flying hours by 14 percent in the year to June 30, 1991, i.e. there were issues and QANTAS worked on addressing them.

So , the Gov't decided QF International could not survive as it was ,it merged the two publicliy owned airlines and got rid of the merged entity as a drain on the public purse .
The present state of affairs has been a long time coming , But let’s move forward a few years after the Australian Airlines merger, By fiscal 1997, Qantas was solidly in the black, achieving net profits of AUD 252.7 million. So QANTAS turned things around, didn't they?

it would be very sad to see Charlie Q go under , given the level of bitterness allround it does not look good.
Those who look to the past with rose tinted glasses are fools ,
those who distort history are also fools
Qantas International has always been a battleground for the Unions and management of the day . I could bore you with a litany of disputes right back to the last Pilots strike in 1966 , but whats the point! The die is being set , I only hope those who have good jobs with QF are not on here in the future wailing about the good job I HAD with QF .

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

ALAEA notice just going out -

RE: PIA BALLOT AND QANTAS MANAGEMENT


Members are reminded that PIA ballot papers need to be sent back asap as the closing date with the Australian Electoral Commission is on the Wednesday the 22nd at 1000 AM.

As an update we can only share limited information about the ongoing discussions that are taking place in Fair Work Australia. In simple terms I can say that we were in there again at 1000 AM yesterday, we left at 1600 and we didn’t have a deal. In general terms we would like nothing more than to negotiate an outcome without the need to take action however a negotiated outcome would be near on impossible without a successful ballot result. I suspect that Qantas would also like a negotiated outcome that delivers us a small wage rise and absolutely no job security whatsoever. Information we are being told from other quarters indicates that they plan to decimate the Qantas LAME workforce post agreement regardless of the damage they will do to their own business in the process.

On that note a post was made on Pprune seeking input from readers on how things at Qantas could be done better. The response was overwhelming with dozens of ideas. Earlier on in negotiations Qantas advised us that the International business was struggling and as most of you would be aware, the CEO has been expressing those sentiments in a number of public forums. From our perspective we are of the view that each of our 1600 LAME members want Qantas to do well but are often witness to decisions that are flawed and lead to poor productivity that in turn adds unnecessary cost to the business. Members report that the business is clearly being mismanaged.

Some of the decisions that concern us relate to small matters such as parts not being available when tasks are ready to commence, there are the bigger ones such as the implementation of a new layer of unnecessary management (Ops managers) that costs the airline about $5million a year in wages and then hugely expensive decision errors that are made at board level. The most recent that comes to mind is the ordering of A380 aircraft that already require a massive reconfiguration programme.

Many members have expressed frustration that common sense ideas that have been suggested by Qantas staff have been dismissed. It appears that Qantas talk a lot about engagement with staff who also want that but all they receive in return is lip service, this is something that we as a union also often encounter. The ALAEA are at a loss to understand why Qantas often make these poor decisions. For them then to come to us seeking concessions related to our employment conditions due to underperforming parts of their business is then viewed as an insult.

We do not know what is around the corner when it comes to management of Qantas. There could be changes on the board or a complete 180 by those currently in senior positions. A day will come when Qantas is again controlled by people respected by the workforce for their knowledge and wise decision making. When that day comes we would like to be in a position where we can assist turning the business into what it should be by providing them with the necessary ideas to do it.

The third page of this notice is a form for you to fill out if you like. It can be returned anonymously or with your name affixed. We would like your input on what Qantas are doing wrong and how they can fix it. The ideas can be as minor or major as you like and should be specific so we know what needs to be done. This notice should also be given to your manager and his mates as we are also aware that many of them face similar frustrations. Managers are more than welcome to participate with this project and should be aware that their names, as is the case for all members will be kept strictly confidential if given to the ALAEA.

The data will be collected and made into a presentation that would be used when we suspect that someone, be they the owners or new managers, are prepared to listen. It also may be used during negotiations when the other side claim that they want flexibility or savings, I suspect we will be able to throw other ideas that can save them tenfold other than attacking our jobs and conditions.

It is unfortunate that as a professional Association we feel that our input is required to help run this business before it is destroyed by the people running the show today. A board that contains not one person with hands on airline operational experience cannot be good for our futures and the last thing we need to see is another Ansett. It’s about time this mob started to listen to their most valuable resource and if they don’t like that idea, we’ll find someone who will.

A copy of this notice has been sent to Alan Joyce.




ALAEA FEEDBACK ON HOW QANTAS COULD BE RUN BETTER




Briefly describe what is wrong –





How this problem could be fixed –







Name (optional) ___________________________________________________




Please fax back to ALAEA on (02) 9554 9644 or email ideas to



[email protected]

[Ngineer]

Would be a good idea if we had management that actually listened. They seem more secretive and sheepish than anything else.

[lamem]

Steve

I have just read the latest notice. Just like the companies attempts at engagement it is a waste of time, money and resources. They have absolutely no interest is seeing any improvement. just hearing the talk from around the bases the local managers are just as bad as ever. They have no understanding of the concept of engagement. Just look at who they are replacing Big Dick with inb Per. The new bloke was the biggest bully known to man in BNE Heavy and regularly breached company policy. Now they keep him on and put him in WA. They are not interested in improving anything.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

lamem - If you think what we have started is a waste of time, don't fill it out. We are looking for one chance, just one chance to find someone who has the powers to sack the bast**ds who are destroying this airline. If we find that person and have the right information at hand, the party will be over and so will the ongoing campaign of buggery.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Have to agree with LAMEM They are not interested .
If you think they will even read it your just fooling yourself and wasting your time they don,t give a rats arse what the workers or the ALAEA think just ask anyone who has suggested a process to make a job easier and quicker saving time and money they will tell you they would never bother again because of the negative response and being told how friggin hard it would be to change a couple of steps on a work order you just get to the point of thinking screw it I will do it the Qantas way even if takes 10 times and costs 10 times in $ as long they don,t care why should I.:ugh:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

To be so negative about an idea will not help. I can only say it so many times and in so many ways. I know the current managers aren't listening. The information is not for them. In case that was not understood - THIS IS NOT INFORMATION FOR THE CURRENT MANAGERS. We know they are ignorant.

The information is being gathered for other purposes like giving it to the institutional shareholders who decide who will run the company. They can sack the entire board if they like. If you would like the board replaced as I sure as hell do, fill one out if you think anything can be done better.

Before you consider further negative thoughts such as "they will only be replaced with another group of Wallies", if we can provide enough positive feedback, the shareholders may seek our endorsement of a new management team. I know it may seem pie in the sky but you never know what is around the corner. With the share price at $1.88 they must be on the nose.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Qantas jet refits secure 600 Avalon What a Load of crap this story is :ugh:
Qantas jet refits secure 600 Avalon jobs | Geelong, VIC, Australia (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2011/06/13/263331_news.html)

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Too right it is. The place had 900 employees when Syd Heavy was closed and the work transfered down there. They should have increased numbers.

[QFinsider]

Steve,

As a fellow custodian, i admire your integrity.
You are quite correct institutions are jittery. The share price less than when listed. the business in disarray, and the snouts buried in the trough to the detriment of institutional investors, customers and employees. indeed if such a thing exists these days, even to the detriment of national interest.
Engineers showed the pilots the way to go. Management have no stake in the company nor no knowledge of how it really works. that is our one shining light..

[Jethro Gibbs]

600 - 80 approx for reconfig what are the other 520 going to do :suspect:

[Dockie]

Get rid of ops "managers" for a start. At a crew meeting our ops "manager" was asked what his job was and his answer was " I do not know."
:ugh:

[Ken Borough]

We know they are ignorant.

This is so typical of half-witted people who masquarade as leaders. What special qualifications does the ALAEA boss have to make such a claim? Most managers at Qantas will have already forgotten what little he may or will know. :E:E

[Budfox]

Word on the street from Broker friends is that Capital group are unloading.
Looks like they are fed up with the company once and for all :uhoh:
Not good at all, wakey wakey Mr Joyce :ugh:

[DEFCON4]

Qantas management know nothing,have never known anything and therefore have nothing to forget.
In corporate Australia Qantas managment are the least educated least capable and most incompetent

[craigieburn]

Ken, is there not a Qantas managers forum that you can post your drivel on? FFS, your constant harping about the attributes of QF management is not only tiresome, the share price and market mood should tell you that your opinions are wrong!

['holic]

Ken Borough, 27th April

Since the float, the 'management' (a term I use loosely) had neither the courage nor foresight to reinvigorate Qantas. Instead, the easy path was taken and Jetstar created. The rest is history!

Sorry, Ken, gettin' mixed signals from ya. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with SP? And what was that bit about halfwits?

[Ken Borough]

'holic - ignorance does not equal a lack of foresight and lack of courage. A mixed message has not been sent, unless of course one is incapable of thinking things through! :ok:

[assasin8]

Ah Ken,"you're an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, surrounded by mystery.":\

[ejectx3]

"I object, your honor! This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham."

[Oldmate]

ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/Adjective
1. Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2. Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy"

Would seem a very apt description of those "running" the business.

['holic]

'holic - ignorance does not equal a lack of foresight and lack of courage.What about if SP was calling them ignorant because of their lack of foresight and courage?

Anyhoo, as much as I've enjoyed playing word games with you, why don't you pick one side and then stick with it. It makes it so much easier for us dumb pilots to follow.

[Sunfish]

$1.84 Surely a raider can't be far away?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I wonder if they can drop below $1? heading that way now.


Hey all please keep the suggestions coming on here or via our office. they are all being collated for later use. Please be very specific with your input, we have lots of replies such as - beter service, more engagement, too many managers, more advertising of Qantas etc..... At this stage a more valuable response would be -

The manager of 3M store requisition and procurement does nothing, he costs .......

The managers have chosen a new route to DFW, 1 in 20 flights are diverted because the fuel tanks aren't big enough .....


Keep em coming guys, other unions are also now contributing.

[ozbiggles]

Its a great management team isn't it.
The Frequent Flyer Program is the money maker in the company at the moment.
Most of this team were around when they tried to sell it off. What a gem that was.
Now the current CEO wants to cut investment in Qantas, send it to Jetstar and other LCC operations pending.
Why does the management team think the FF program is so popular? Its not because people want to fly on the LCC side of the business, they want to fly the Qantas side of the operation.
If he keeps running/talking down and not reinvesting in the QANTAS side of the operation what is the long term future of the FF program. Of course the effect won't be seen in this current teams bonus horizon so they don't really care. But if people have to save up their points for years and end up on a clapt out Qantas jet or can only get a ticket on Jetstar maybe they may decide they are better off saving money and not collecting FF points.
Thus beginning a slow decline in the value of the FF side of the comapny as well.

[skybed]

FF program and J* look very profitable and mainline (according to AJ does not return the investment on capital, only the news papers call it loss making international operation) is to drive through changes. No one knows what FF pays QF for the seats! And we all know how many different types of subsidies J* gets. :yuk:

[somewhereat1l]

The management team clearly have no idea how to run a full service international airline.

I listened into Crewvoice today, how depressing?

Samantha Tarranto going on about "Jetstar flying to destinations that QF would never fly the 'red tail' to' and introducing our special conference call guest...Neil Perry...who spent the five minutes of the call congratulating Qantas managers how fantastic they are:ugh:

Apparently the reason he doesn't eat onboard is because he eats in the lounge before he boards the aircraft :yuk: (slow roasted baby rats anyone?)

The only time Samantha Tarranto perked up was when a crew member mentioned that company approved knitwear is out of stock at DJ's. 'Oh they told us that would always be in stock, I shall speak to my assistant who will arrange a meeting, then another meeting etc...etc..blah...blah'

WTH are these people any good at apart from arranging meeting and costings?

What a miserable company Qantas is nowdays :{

[Collando]

How about an IT contract that replaces leased pc's every 3 yrs so as processing speeds increase through new technology, so does our ability to get our job done quicker,Helping to make the work place more efficent, instead of being stuck with tired old pcs that are unreliable. Anywhere else you lease pcs you can replace them with the latest model after the lease term expires.(2-3 yrs)

[runesta]

funny you raised this Steve

Buy some aircraft with the correct configuration. How can we already be spending hundreds of millions to change the 380 layout?


You've got John Borghetti to thank for that mess! :hmm:

[The Black Panther]

I've been thinking about this question for a few days and it's a just a broken down relationship and both parties have had a gut full.

We both need to change.
We need to appreciate globalsation is upon our industry but short of surrendering to it we have every right to debate and discuss what to change, why change and what will be the outcomes if we do change. We need to monitor and measure the competition and we need to monitor and measure our own performance.

The managers have big problems reading our threads, they have lied, bullied and betrayed. They will not budge and fail to explain in enough detail their decisions. They take away sources of revenue and keep the expenses, they threaten contracting our business while spoiling the little low cost sister. They lead us down a path of redundancy and then fail to tell us it's not happening. Do you feel valueless in this relationship, disrespected, alienated?

The HR process continues to reward the WIIFM'S's and the bullies. They need to toss the HR manual and speak with concerned parties about who is best for a job, should the job go to an independent should it be in house. Speak with their peers and you will discover who is respected and who is a parasite.

Trust and engagement will only save this relationship and after every LAME UPDATE # x I feel no closer to embracing them. The bull$hit written comes from a puppet, a liar and a bully who fails make a decision and is bent of his own climb up a ladder. The engagement survey (results? still being manipulated :rolleyes:) is over and our manager is back to being a ghost.

Good luck SP but I am happy to seek divorce at the Family court, it's been more than one year and one day.

[ampclamp]

Sunfish, with a market capitalisation today of just 4.1 billion and somewhere between 3 and 3.6 billion in cash the value of the whole outfit is very very low at 1.1 billion to maybe a low of 500,000,000.
It is clearly undervalued. We all know a thousand reasons why. A bust up of the assets and sale of some would see handsome profits.

They must be looking at ways to release value to holders. Just a matter of how.

[surfside6]

Oh baby they know how.
Its all about timing it just right so they dont spook the market like last time.They want it cheap and you can bet they learnt alot from the last debacle.When it starts it will be swift.Watch for the beginning of a spike in volume of shares traded

[The Black Panther]

No, it will be the Options market

[surfside6]

The Options Market ?
Now thats thinking laterally

[The Black Panther]

We are dealing with absolute greed. The insiders will leverage into the options market. It's the first place ASIC look but no one gets caught. It will be a subsidiary of a subsidiary who does the deal and the path will eventually end up in a discretionary trust.

We will be sweet pie for the PE bankers I agree.

BP

[TIMA9X]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RsfCenUgkbg/Tftf41hWcxI/AAAAAAAAA-w/rZ6Ai7JiVZI/s640/Qan-Roulette-not-fair.jpg

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Could start fixing the whole airline if the powers to be were to watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

[oicur12.again]

Thanks for the youtube link.

I found it incredibly fascinating to listen to Dan Pink. You can locate his full version also.

Thanks again.

[Sunfish]

Brilliant Brissy!!!!!!!!!!


First thing at Qantas then is to remove the bonuses for management.

[packrat]

Management are not employees.They certainly dont see themselves as such.That,dear boy is a large part of the problem at the rat.Management have forgotten their place

[Sunfish]

I think we all know who the sciolist is here.

[Sunfish]

Hcmcmclown:

Tough crowd but you guys dont realise just who I am and the influence I have had on the industry, even though I am someone who could possibly be perceived as a three time loser.

But you should see me now! A deadset entrepreneurial genius!

Cafe Sua Da anyone?

Who is the sciolist here?

{sci·o·lism (s-lzm) = A pretentious attitude of scholarship; superficial knowledgeability.}

Anyway in Australia we would just call you a smart@rse. Now fcuk off and drink your pretentious coffee and leave us in peace.

[framer]

Now fcuk off and drink your pretentious coffee and leave us in peace.

heh heh, you've obviously never had cafe sua da :)

[gobbledock]

HMASassclown, isnt 'Cafe Sua Da' the coffee that men with small weiner's drink, hoping it will increase the length and girth of their undersized member ?
Would explain why you like it so much.

'Cafe Sua Spoonter' anyone ?

[Sunfish]

Getting back on topic, the Board and Management of Qantas that have gotten it into its current situation are, by definition, not the people that will get it out of this mess.

I note for example, the arrival of the 747 - 800 at the Paris airshow.

Why ferchrissake did QF go for the A380 instead of the B777 followed by a migration to the - 800 and 787?

Boeing used to be really good at packaging up a comprehensive fleet renewal plan that started with B737's and progressed through the whole fleet - all for one low price ;) I assume Airbus would do exactly the same thing....

Why then does QF have such a mixed fleet? Is it possible that QF execs like visiting Europe more than Seattle or now St Louis?

What would the QF A380 production line slots be worth today? Is it too late? Alternatively, so as not to start an Airbus vs Boeing session, what are the QF 787 slots worth?

[73to91]

Yes Sunfish the Board and Management of Qantas that have gotten it into its current situation are, by definition, not the people that will get it out of this mess.
thanks to google, I just looked at when QANTAS announced the 787 order and the board members at the time.

The order:
On Dec. 13, 2005, Qantas decided to purchase up to 115 Boeing 787 Dreamliners, valued at roughly $10 billion at list prices.

The Board:
Margaret Jackson was appointed to the Board in Aug 2000,
(I also found this piece at the same time )http://theferalchook.com.au/news_detail.php?id=317 (http://theferalchook.com.au/news_detail.php?id=317)
Geoff Dixon was appointed to the Board in August 2000,
Peter Gregg was appointed to the Board in Sept 2000,
John Schubert was appointed to the Board in October 2000,
Paul Anderson was appointed to the Board in Sept 2002 ,
Patricia Cross was appointed to the Board in January 2004,
James Packer was appointed to the Board in March 2004,
Garry Hounsell was appointed to the Qantas Board in January 2005,
Peter Cosgrove was appointed to the Qantas Board in July 2005,
Mike Codd was appointed to the Board in Jan 1992,
Jim Kennedy was appointed to the Board in October 1995,

Only Cross, Hounsell and Cosgrove are still on it and yet the current group have done nothing (it appears) to address the 787 or 777 issues.

Maybe they are looking at Paris Air show | Boeing 747-8 jumbo jet touches down (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/boeings-new-jumbo-jet-touches-down-in-paris-20110620-1gani.html)

[Ken Borough]

Sunfish wrote

Anyway in Australia we would just call you a smart@rse. Now fcuk off and drink your pretentious coffee and leave us in peace.

That, Sunfish, is what many think when you start and harp irrationally about QF's route structure etc. :E:E

What goes around goes around!!

[Sunfish]

Ken B:

That, Sunfish, is what many think when you start and harp irrationally about QF's route structure etc.

Kenny baby; I have news for you; it's not just me harping about your route structure.

My concerns were and are grounded in the economic fact that direct international air links are a critical consideration in attracting international business investment into cities and states, and that Qantas, both before and after privatization was hopelessly biased towards a Sydney - centric network paradigm, to the detriment of Brisbane and Melbourne.

As for ASK's, fuel loads, revenue and yield etc, etc. I know not, and you won't hear me carping about those issues.

[unionist1974]

Sunfish , pontificating again , Yawwwwnnnnnn1

[gobbledock]

Sunfish , pontificating again , Yawwwwnnnnnn1
That, Sunfish, is what many think when you start and harp irrationally about QF's route structure etc.
I am pretty sure that Ken B and onanist1974 are married, and if they aren't I am sure they will be soon as they certainly come from the same redneck bloodline and have several chromosones missing.

[Mstr Caution]

Ben Sandilands to be on 2ue 954 in Sydney in the next few minutes.

For those that missed it, nothing new.

Interviewer:

* No positive Qantas stories in years.
* Qantas brand & name use to be everywhere, now it's not.
* No positive Qantas presence in Australia.
* Projects the Qantas brand won't carry the weight it use to.
* Qantas will only be a name in the future, not a brand or Icon.
* Qantas will be nothing to be proud of.

Ben S:

* Will probably see a Qantas branded airline in Asia.
* Expanded alliances with foreign carriers
* Cutting unprofitable International routes, to focus on trunk routes only.
* Feels that Qantas doesn't value the QF brand as much as that of J*
* Stated AJ didn't take any questions at the national Press club regarding the transfer of assets from Qantas to Jetstar.
* The Qantas group has a "fixation" on Jetstar.

MC

[73to91]

Qantas has again slipped down the rankings of the world's best airlines in the annual Skytrax World Airline Awards, but remains in the top 10.

Qantas was named the world's eighth-best airline, down from number seven in last year's awards. The airline has dropped every year since 2008, when it was named the world's third-best airline.

Qatar Airways was named the best airline in the world. The Middle Eastern carrier has climbed steadily in the rankings from eighth place six years ago.

Skytrax CEO Edward Plaisted said the award was significant for Qatar Airways, because it "reflects opinions of passengers around the world, and is based on every customer type across all cabins - be they business or leisure, frequent or first-time flyers".

Qatar Airways was followed by 2008 winner Singapore Airlines in second place, with last year's winner, Asiana Airlines in third position. Cathay Pacific Airways retained fourth place from last year.

Thai Airways was the big mover, rising four places to fifth position.

In the Australia-Pacific region, Qantas ran second to Air New Zealand. Jetstar was rated third-best for the region. Air New Zealand's new premium economy (http://www.pprune.org/photogallery/travel/air-new-zealands-radical-new-seats-20110203-1aeoa.html?selectedImage=0) offering was also rated the best in the world for that class.

Jetstar was named the best low-cost carrier for Australia-Pacific.

South Korea's Asiana Airlines won for the best cabin crew, while Emirates won the best in-flight entertainment award.

The annual awards by Skytrax are based on surveys with more than 18 million passengers, carried out over 10 months.

The awards were announced today at the French Air and Space Museum at the Paris Air Show.



Read more: Skytrax airline awards 2011 | Qatar world's best airline (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/worlds-best-airline-named-as-qantas-slips-in-rankings-20110623-1ggew.html#ixzz1Q3p30U4f)


THE WORLD'S BEST AIRLINES : 2011
1. Qatar Airways
2. Singapore Airlines
3. Asiana Airlines
4. Cathay Pacific Airways
5. Thai Airways International
6. Etihad Airways
7. Air New Zealand
8. Qantas Airways
9. Turkish Airlines
10. Emirates


World's Best First Class Airline Seat

1. Cathay Pacific Airways
2. Etihad Airways
3. Singapore Airlines

Best Airline Inflight Entertainment
1. Emirates
2. Singapore Airlines
3. Cathay Pacific Airways

World's Best Business Class Airline Seat
1. Oman Air
2. Singapore Airlines
3. Qatar Airways

Best Premium Economy Class Airline
1. Air New Zealand
2. Turkish Airlines
3. Qantas Airways

World's Most Improved Airline
1. China Southern Airlines
2. Air China
3. Aeroflot Russian Airlines







So, no doubt AJ will state that the 8th placing as a positive and ignore that The airline has dropped every year since 2008


No doubt AJ will talk up that Jetstar was rated third-best for the region 3rd best for what? AJ must have filled in plenty of voting cards whilst he was in hospital.


No doubt AJ will talk up the fact that Jetstar was named the best low-cost carrier for Australia-Pacific and there is how many in the region?

[1a sound asleep]

I think this is a good clue as to where he's heading

http://malaysiaairlines.listedcompany.com/images/press_releases/OneWorld-Alliance1.jpg

[King William III]

My loyal subjects….

Back on track, how to improve the place?

1 - Bring back a staff suggestion scheme with REAL incentives…not the insipid and degrading Excel Awards…..restaurant vouchers, percentage of the saving…etc
2 - Get the LAME's and AME's doing tasks such as warranty and OH&S out of the office and back on the tools. Create permanent, full-time, REAL, positions and if those people want them they can apply for them and get the appropriate salary.
3 - When engineers go overseas for work…pay them their overtime ASAP. Don't sit on the form and quibble about 50c like certain Ops managers are inclined to do.
4 - Get rid of Ops managers and give the D.E.'s their power back. We really don't need both.
5 - Give promotional control back to a peer group like it 'used' to be…well, kinda!! These HR driven interviews tend to promote the best ones at talking the required dribble. The HR driven process has it's place but it sure isn't the be all and end all. If you are to give DMM's their power back you need one's with lots of experience to make the big calls.
6 - Merge Team380 into base ASAP….both sides need it for their own good.
7 - If you want to do heavy maintenance in Sydney then re-open Heavy, don't expect Base to do it on nightshift…you're asking for trouble.
8 - Cut down on the ancillary paperwork. If we didn't have to do endless SIN's, tool to task, memos, read about Fred in accounting getting a new job, etc etc we might actually have time to do our work….and partsmart….don't get me started on how we do the accountant's job to justify our own redundancies…..

there are many more….I just need caffeine to trigger them!!

Yours in Orangeness,

William of Orange :eek:

[blubak]

Great interview with Borghetti in current edition of AA.What a professional,not too big for his boots to value views of employees,answers straight to the point & is not scared to admit what being 'AUSTRALIAN' means.
Not hard to see why negotiations with this guy produce a result!!
Any thoughts Steve??

[Going Nowhere]

Qantas offers free Sydney-Dallas business class upgrade (and yes, there's a catch)

In brief: Heading to Dallas in August or September this year or December to March 2012? Want to book a premium economy fare on Qantas' 747-400 and get a free bump into business class?
That's the deal on offer from Qantas and American Express. Book a premium economy return ticket in July for the QF7-QF8 services between Sydney and Dallas/Forth Worth, with travel from August 1 to September 30 or December 2 to March 31 2012, and for one of those two legs you'll be upgraded to business class.
You'll find all the details at https://enroll.amexnetwork.com/US/QAN07-001.

Now here's the bad news: according to the fine print, this promotion is limited to American Express cards issued in the USA.

Well, it's good news if you happen to have a US-issued Amex card. But we'd much rather see this great deal offered to Qantas' Australian customers... you know, the ones that Alan Joyce complains are not flying in sufficient numbers on the Red Roo?

:ugh:

Qantas offers free Sydney-Dallas business class upgrade (and yes, there's a catch...) - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller (http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-premium-economy-business-class-upgrade-dallas-dfw)

[Taildragger67]

Sorry, I can't resist:

Qantas offers free Noumea stop-over on Dallas-Brisbane route :}

Yes I know, I'll show myself out, thanks...

[Collando]

How the hell can the Dallas route be profitable operating a 747 ER at max range with a maximum of only 280 pax allowed. Have not checked the fares yet but it can't be cheap if it's to make a profit. Maybe an honest and ruthless eye should be cast at the genius who thought of this route.

[Nassensteins Monster]

I strongly recommend you pick up the July Australian Aviation Magazine. You, the Board, lost the opportunity to select the right candidate for CEO. You failed to reward a man with 30 years of loyal service, a man committed to improving Qantas Mainline. Instead, you chose the protégé of a man who would’ve helped dismember QF, a man who spoke of Qantas mainline as “legacy” instead of “premium”; a man who did not believe in the word “morale”; a man who left his workforce disengaged. You chose a man who talked the talk on re-engaging with staff, but is not walking the walk and has instead fallen back on the methods of his mentor. You chose a man on whose watch the share price has retreated below issue price. You have a responsibility to the shareholder: pay a dividend and/or provide capital growth, sustainably and consistently. On this man’s watch the shareholder has received neither.

Here are a few quotes from the man you cast aside. Contrast this with the man you chose: a foreigner whose CV contains the word “Ansett” – a word synonymous with “senior management failure”; a man who ran an airline not satisfied with sucking at the teat of it’s mother but ate of it’s flesh, and continues to do so. You, the investor, must start asking questions about your investment: accounting methods, IR strategy, staff engagement, fleet decisions, route decisions, cabin config decisions, short-sighted management remuneration methods.

You, the senior management, need to get out of your office and follow Borghetti’s example: talk to the people on the front line. Don’t listen to the filtered, massaged and glossed versions of the corrupted, narcissistic, self-serving, incompetent and nepotistic among the mostly honest and hard-working lower and middle management. You, the vast majority of lower and middle management must disown the dishonest, short-sighted, and strategically flawed policies, methods and practices rammed down your throats by those above you: that includes the internationally discredited short-term KPI remuneration policy. There are better ways to be remunerated, ways that encourage the long-term survival of the airline without foregoing financial reward.

The following posts are extracts from an interview with Mr John Borghetti, the man who has sworn to rip a 20% hole in the most significant part of one half of the two remaining profitable arms of the Qantas Group: domestic business class.

[Nassensteins Monster]

“So whilst we had to cope with all these events [floods, cyclones, computer shutdowns, downgrading, fuel, currency] we didn’t let them get in the way of doing what we did [ the Game Change Strategy] and the only reason we have been able to do it is frankly we have a great team, and by a team of people I don’t mean in management, but we have a great team of employees and staff and that make the job a little bit easier. To be honest I’m staggered at what we have achieved given the hurdles that have been thrown at us, and I’m immensely proud of what we have done.”

“These guys are fantastic. I’ve said it a hundred times but I really mean it, these cabin crew are brilliant…. And if you look at the pilots… they are a very professional bunch of guys and girls, and you just let them do it…”

By contrast AJ makes cabin crew redundant, calls Qantas engineers “rogues” and pilots “kamikazes”.

[Nassensteins Monster]

“…the first month of my role was really getting to know who is who and all the rest of it… then you had to formulate a strategy and bring everyone along with it.”


“I’m sure there has been [resistance] in quarters, but it’s my job and my management team’s to bring people along.”

[Nassensteins Monster]

“If you said to me what are the two things that you think you are blessed with…, I have to say the brand… And the second thing is… the engagement of the staff. These guys are hungry for the changes that we are making, almost as much as I am, if not more. And any CEO that walks into a company and has got… great staff who are totally engaged and want to make the changes, you are there. The rest you should be able to manage.”

[Nassensteins Monster]

“I was very fortunate because whilst I had a strategy in mind, when I walked in I also spent two months from the day of appointment to the day of strting travelling around the network talking with staff and learning the business. And what I found was the feedback that I was getting from the cabin crew, pilots, ground handling staff, some of their recommendations, some of their thoughts on what the airline should do, are identical to what I was doing… By the time I started almost half of my strategy had already been validated by the staff, so then it was just a question of continuing to talk with staff and keeping them in the loop as to what we were doing as much as possible.”

[Nassensteins Monster]

“With 7,000 people you will always get somebody who doesn’t agree with you, and that is a good thing, because you want to hear why they don’t agree with you because they might actually have a better idea and you should listen.”

[Nassensteins Monster]

“…if you say ‘what is running a good airline all about?’ [the answer is], obviously safety is number one, that’s a given, but it is all about consistency and it’s all about detail. You have to be consistent with whatever you do and you have to look at the detail, because your customer does…”

That doesn’t mean having a gazillion aircraft types in your fleet with a gazillion and ten different interiors and IFE systems.

I am an engineer. It is company policy to provide a thorough handover at shift change. Yet managers can walk away. Promises are forgotten or broken. Strategies are changed for no good reason. etc etc.

[Nassensteins Monster]

“We are wanting people to feel like they are individuals, whether they are working for us or as customers. So that requires a number of things… a change to the training process, changes to the management process, and communication and everything else… We don’t have to be black or white like most airlines, we can be grey. I keep saying, we can walk and chew gum at the same time, and you do that by not giving a narrow definition to staff, you give them parameters by which they can flex to a certain degree, and that’s what we are doing.”

[Nassensteins Monster]

“The second part of the brand is ‘Australia’, and I think we are Australian, we employ Australians, and it is therefore our duty… to ensure that we do as much work onshore as possible in Australia.”

“I know a lot of people are thinking that offshoring is the way to go for the future – I don’t believe that. How can you have the word ‘Australia’ on the fuselage and do that? It just doesn’t make sense, so what have we done to prove that? Well we have just made a big commitment in building a hangar in Sydney so we can do maintenance here – some of that work was going overseas.”

“So with brand I think it is important that the words you use you have to live by, because if you don’t people will see through it.”

[Nassensteins Monster]

“I always say that you forget the customer at your peril in any deal that you do, doesn’t matter what the deal is, whether it’s an alliance deal or a union deal… if you don’t think about the customer while you are doing that deal, you will regret it at some time.”

Contrast that with QF IR policy: inconvenience the customer instead of taking up the ALAEA offer of minimising disruptions with overtime; or hurt the shareholder by paying scabs at rates much higher than the LAMEs on overtime.

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Quick Random Sample

QF Syd-Sin today, 4 seats available between a 744 and an A380, Mel-sin 1 seat spare on the 380, 1 seat on the 744 to LAX tomorrow.

International not making money?!

Give me a break...

New management please.....NOW :(

[rodchucker]

Common Reg, Just because the metal is full doesn't mena there is enough to pay all the fines, fund the consultants, fight the unions, piss off the staff, fund Jstar, fund former CEO tax equalisation schemes, set up new offshore venture to save money and oh yes pay the bonuses AND yes we have another one...recapitalise JV.

Makes the wages seem irrelevant really doesnt it.

Please someone put this lot out of their misery and let us hear some good news.

[B772]

I see Skytrax now say QF is not a quality approved airline. No doubt this is due to the Joyce cutbacks on cabin service service generally and no hot breakfasts on International.

I understand meat sandwiches a week out of date were served yesterday on a Domestic flight.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I understand meat sandwiches a week out of date were served yesterday on a Domestic flight.

This would have been a date printing error.

If a sandwich was truly out-of-date by a week, you'd know about it - both from an appearance and smell perspective. It would have been rancid - all of them...

[ampclamp]

Lots of meals are pre prepared and frozen. Sangers... no idea but the attendants have reported problems with frozen meals.

[skybed]

"I see Skytrax now say QF is not a quality approved airline. No doubt this is due to the Joyce cutbacks on cabin service service generally and no hot breakfasts on International"
QF has refused to be audited by Skytrax for a number of years now:yuk:

[limelight]

Qantas bumps the wrong person, an ad man who drew this | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/07/05/a-creative-member-of-the-angry-flyers-lounge-strikes-back/#comments)

[ditzyboy]

Would love to know more about his this guy was 'bumped' from J class onto Jetstar?

[whatdouknow]

Love the logo...

Qantas bumps the wrong person, an ad man who drew this | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/07/05/a-creative-member-of-the-angry-flyers-lounge-strikes-back/#comments)

can Crikey allow the logo to be used within certain locations?
would love to see it around the traps!

[unionist1974]

Was it BS ?

[Nassensteins Monster]

See below:

I notice that there are NO speakers from Qantas. Surprise surprise.

Will any Qantas management be attending? :ugh:

Australian Financial Review presents:

Leadership Conference 2011:

Making Good Management Stick

Tue 16 Aug 2011

Sofitel Sydney Wentworth

Effective leaders know that good management makes for a profitable enterprise. With new Australian research providing a compelling financial argument for sustaining good management practices, there is no excuse not to know and implement what these practices are.

Key Topics:

- The successful management practises that lead to profitability
- Talent management and leadership within multi-generational workforces
- The power of the unconscious bias on decision making
- Cultural IQ and understanding values for international trading
- Critical success factors for engaging with emerging markets

Hosted by:

John Eales
Director
Mettle Group
and former Captain
Australian Rugby Team

Narelle Hooper
Editor
Financial Review BOSS Magazine


Speakers include:

Jenny McGregor
Chief Executive Officer
AsiaLink

Alex Malley
Chief Executive Officer
CPA Australia

Susie Babani
General Managing Director
Human Resources
ANZ

Rachel Slade
Head of Group Diversity and Flexibility
Westpac

Geoff Aigner
Senior Manager; Development
Social Leadership Australia
The Benevolent Society

Chris Beer
Chief Executive Officer, Asia Pacific, Greater China & South Africa
Luxottica Group

Philip Cronin
General Manager
Intel Australia

Rhonda Brighton - Hall
General Manager, Human Resources
CBA Retail Services

Ross McEwan
Group Executive - Retail Banking
CBA

Melanie Laing
Executive General Director -
People & Culture
Origin Energy

Karynne Courts
Director
Values Connection

[lame1]

All caused by the Sustainable Future Program that ensures those at the top keep their pockets full of cash.
Compare other airlines,big airlines and you will find none receive the pay and perks that QF execs give themselves.
Lets cap off what these execs have done and feel free to add to the list.
Outsource apprentice training,outsource stores,outsource all engine overhaul,close workshops,close 747 syd maint facility,give away customer work,add layers of useless management levels,emply leadership on attitude and not ability,outsource heavy checks to o/seas facilities with little or no quality control.Employ management from failed airlines.Employ a HR/IR team that lives in the stone age,buy unproven inflight entertainment systems.contract out work that previously had been done inhouse,buy long range A330 with light weight flooring and insufficient galleys for long hall ops,
GREED

[Butterfield8]

Buy a semi automatic and visit QCA8...only jokin'

[Cactusjack]

I understand meat sandwiches a week out of date were served yesterday on a Domestic flight.
Sounds like they are describing one of the old boiler F/A's !!

[RATpin]

lame1,it's called "Worlds best practice" is'nt?

[Nassensteins Monster]

Lets cap off what these execs have done and feel free to add to the list.
Outsource apprentice training,outsource stores,outsource all engine overhaul,close workshops,close 747 syd maint facility,give away customer work,add layers of useless management levels,emply leadership on attitude and not ability,outsource heavy checks to o/seas facilities with little or no quality control.Employ management from failed airlines.Employ a HR/IR team that lives in the stone age,buy unproven inflight entertainment systems.contract out work that previously had been done inhouse,buy long range A330 with light weight flooring and insufficient galleys for long hall ops,
GREED
And who could forget the decision to NOT buy 777's? :ugh:

[Nassensteins Monster]

And our favourite philanthropist Geoff "I'll be donating the majority of my $50 million bonus to charity" Dicko. :yuk:
It's criminal.
Let's hit 'em hard & smart. Make 'em hurt. Now. Then gimmee my VR. I've had a gutful.

[B772]

Now QF are going to close all their retail offices in Aust. except for Gove. There are some passengers especially premium who do not want or use the i-net to make bookings or construct itineraries. This will mean further loss of traffic to overseas based carriers who maintain retail offices in Aust.

Whilst it could be argued travel agencies are an alternative; would be QF passengers will find themselves trying other carriers at the suggestion of the travel agents.

[victor two]

170 odd posts into this and I am still laughing about how some irrelevant union stirrer believes he knows how to improve the business performance of an international airline. I see the classic union master plan of "hold a barbie for the workers" even gets a run. Yeah, that will really transform global finical performance. Great idea, have a barbie. This from a union that could not even arrange a barbie, let alone run a major business. This entire thread is an attempt by a disorganized union to appear to be involved in industry issues which will always appeal to the disgruntled and negative hordes that populate union membership.
I got a suggestion, how about quietly asking your members to understand that they work in a competitive industry and to support and show some loyalty to the company who employs them occasionally. That might help. Talk the idea over over at your world changing "hard done by" workers barbie anyway!
Get back to work guys....seriously.

[dragon man]

Victor Two, which union are you referring to? The Lame's, AIPA, TWU, FAAA, or ASU. They all have members who are unhappy with management. Someone is out of step here and when you consider the numbers i think you will find its not the workers its the idiots in management. They are the ones who now want to join NAB, Pacific Dunlop, BHP and Brambles to name but a few of the Australian company's who have made an outstanding success of their attempts to take their models overseas (yea good one). I think Jetstar Asia and Pacific will ultimately also join that list.

[What The]

Feel free to add to the list of Qantas/Jetstar management Gods achievements.


World’s Best Airline Management Practices

1. Outsource apprentice training
2. Outsource stores
3. Outsource all engine overhaul
4. Close workshops
5. Close 747 Sydney maintenance facility
6. Give away customer work
7. Add layers of useless management levels
8. Employ leadership on attitude and not ability
9. Outsource heavy checks to overseas facilities with little or no quality control
10. Employ management from failed airlines
11. Employ a HR/IR team that lives in the Stone Age (does anyone even know who the Head of People is at the Qantas Group?)
12. Buy an unproven in-flight entertainment systems
13. Contract out work that previously had been done in-house
14. Buy long range A330 with light weight flooring and insufficient galleys for long haul ops
15. Incur $60,000,000+ in cartel fines
16. Not buy the 777
17. Pay an undisclosed price to free two Executives from Vietnam who (in my opinion) thought hedging was gambling
18. Pay millions of dollars to consultants who have produced the fabulous company you see today
19. Pay the former CEO millions for three months work and an ex-gratia payment for a superannuation tax issues which actually didn’t occur
20. Continue with a Board tainted by the failed APA bid which would have seen the company in the hands of receivers
21. Spent large sums of money developing a new flight planning system that didn’t work
22. Have a management that is "among the least efficient and most expensive in the world''
23. Grow Executive roles by 40%+ during Joyce's reign only to have to cut them this year and pay redundancies
24. Interrupting the Premium passengers "inflight experience" by playing up under a blanket in First Class (Bruce Buchannon)

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Instruct Tech Crew to "not use thrust reverse".

[Mstr Caution]

Qantas versus Southwest Airlines Management.

From Wikipedia:

* Southwest Airlines completed an aquisition of AirTran Airways on 2nd May 2011 adding 38 destinations & a combined fleet of 690 aircraft.

* One time costs of $500M to INTEGRATE the two airlines operations with projected savings of $400M annually.

* Expects to receive approval for a single operating certificate in the first quarter of 2012.

* Is negotiating with labour a Seniority Integration and once complete a rebranding of AirTrans to Southwest Airlines livery (2012)

* SOUTHWEST AIRLINES HAS NOT ALWAYS BEEN SUCCESSFUL (RE: AQUISITIONS) AND HAS DEMONSTRATED CAUTION WHEN DEALS THREATEN EMPLOYEE MORALE AND CULTURE.

MC

[Ixixly]

Hows about... Employing a Mouthpiece *cough* sorry, a Head of PR who doesn't seem to actually know what a "Safety Issue" is?

[Groaner]

Not sure I'd agree with number 17.

Hedging can be, but should not be, gambling. In fact, properly used, it is reducing risk.

Regardless (and I have no idea what happened with the hedging arrangements) I would have thought Qantas had a moral duty to do what they could to get those two out of Vietnam, that might have included some murky semi-commercial arrangements. Might not be completely the cleanest way to do it, but prolonging their stay would be dirtier, imo.

[What The]

A hedging stategy when done correctly is giving a known outcome and a bit like insurance against shock.

When done incorrectly (i.e. hedging 100% of your fuel requirements) it is speculative gambling in my opinion.

[Ngineer]

Employ amazing people that love to use language such as "heroic moments" and "world's best practice" or "let's run a lap", but seem to be good for nothing much else (except maybe an editor at a fashion magazine).

[standard unit]

10 million plus on the folly that is the, "centre of service excellence"

[BrissySparkyCoit]

25. Sell Qantas (premium... or is it legacy?) seats to passengers who show up to find they are on a Jetstar (LCC) plane.

[teresa green]

(26) Keep Clifford in a job, he is the one contributing factor thats stays on and on. Give the bloke the ar#se.

[TIMA9X]

he is the one contributing factor that stays on and on7TkEbIIv0ho



The little big men

Edited to say, One thing that is clear to me, the UK LCC short haul model will not suit all of the Long haul Australian market, business will be lost to the Qs premium competitors, which is already evident now, going by the market share figures over the last few years.

[Romulus]

When done incorrectly (i.e. hedging 100% of your fuel requirements) it is speculative gambling in my opinion.

Heding 100% gives you cost certainty. Sure, if the price drops you pay too much, equally if the price rises you pay less. But the key reason for 100% hedging is to give you a fixed cost for one of your critical input costs so you can plan accordingly. In theory 100% hedging makes a lot o fthings much easier, the methodology for payment is quite simple - volume is the only variable and given the nature of the business that is reasonably predictable which means the budget and cash flow for fuel is also predictable. No need to check to see if your provider has correctly allocated the cost of fuel for the given point in time, it's the same number regardless. Plenty more efficiencies there as well, hedging does a whole lot more than just lock in the price, it simplifies a lot of back room processes as well.

[B772]

27. Employ a B grade American actor as an Ambassador on an outrageous package.

[simsalabim]

How about promoting the strength of the Aussie $ and it's buying power which is at a 30 year high. How many people are employed in QF's marketing department? Why isn't an advertising campaign on the air/magazines/newspapers right now telling the public that an overseas trip will probably never be cheaper?

[legacy LAME]

Well done FED SEC
you have successfully done for free what QF have spent
Millions trying to achieve.
funny how everyone from all different areas of QF are
all saying the same thing.
Trick is now getting the information out to the people that matter
and can make a difference
The fact that these threads exist at all shows that qantas has a committed
workforce which is something outher companies struggle to achieve.
I am not scared of change, I am however scared of change for bonus sake

The single thing that killed syd heavy was sacking the support shop foreman.
That single act caused a massive drop in productivity and as a result were unable to support us. They had this new term called just in time support
And pie charts to prove it. A MH incentive

Line 1used to do a 747-300 D check with a strut Moran 32 days.
INCLUDING doing 2 super A checks in the middle.
When the support shops were re structured we lost that capability and H271
Ended up getting given to base maint.
Years later in qantas news there was an article in the industry news section
stating how KLM had just done a worlds best prectice 747-400 D check in 32 days
Talk about make my blood boil!
line 1 would do a 747-400 D check in 28 days with strut mod and 2 super A checks on other aircraft in the middle
Telling thing about the article was that qantas management actually have no idea what is going on, or the recources they have and how to utiilse them

Small front end savings giving greedy little managers a bonus causing
MASSIVE back end costs. But as management have told me time and time again "You dont understand the business"

And for f**ksake go and buy 777-300ER's so we can start operating properly
again

finally can someone smarter than me find a way of emailing this thread to the board or major shareholders

[JetRacer]

A proven ex-CEO from AirNZ is available from November.... Ralph Norris.

Commonwealth Bank CEO designate forecasts financial market volatility | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/commonwealth-bank-ceo-designate-forecasts-financial-market-volatility/story-e6frg8zx-1226099774818)

[eklipse1]

Easy, get rid of the Leprocorn! And then maybe they'll treat QF like a premium carrier and not a low cost carrier!

[ozaggie]

The passion is shared by lots outside of QF too. Leave us something to show the kids, for ( insert name of preferred god) sake

[Ken Borough]

eklipse1 wrote

Easy, get rid of the Leprocorn!

Who or what is this bloke talking about? :mad:

[sani-com]

He's talking about AJ.

[1me]

He's talking about AJ.sani-com, the troll knows exactly who eklipse1 was talking about..

[sani-com]

Bugger, I fell for it.

[cart_elevator]

Some pipe-dream thoughts:

When the announcement of the massively reduced flying for Qantas International,redundancies,off-shoring etc happens on Aug 24th.
Make some noise:
Turn up at the AGM with banners ready for after the announcement,most QF employees are shareholders and therefore entitled to have their opinion heard. Get any friends/rellies who are also shareholders to go. Crowds are easily swayed,make some noise about executive pay (as i spose there wont be any executive pay cuts to go along with the cuts in services/staff), Spirit of Australia lost, poor management decisions etc
Lobby every MP you can find that our Flag Carrier,an essential service to the Australian public is being castrated. Stand outside their offices with 'Save Qantas' banners. Nick X would be a great place to start.
Put pressure on the goverment,email,email,email everyone from Julia down.
Ring [sigh] Today Tonight/ACA with a group of people staring down the barrel of redundancy,the Spirit of Australia is lost etc due to corporate greed (be sure to point out the huge profit QF is still making).

Sometimes as employyes we can't. but as a goup of 'concerned shareholders' we are allowed to make noise.

We have to. :sad:

[1me]

In these forums there are many trolls and Ken is but one of them.. Take what he says with as much salt as you can bear..

[SOPS]

I start this by saying this IS NOT a comment on Flight Saftey, that was NEVER in doubt, just a comment on the service part of the product....

Mrs SOPS, who flies a lot, but due to who I work for and and who she works for has not flown QF for about 15 years.

Due to circumstances she has just flown (as a normal fare pax) a long domestic flight in Y on Qantas....

Her first comment to me was.."I thought I had got on a Garuda flight from 20 years ago"..(she was on a 767 btw) her next big comment was that although she was on a full fare ticket she had to "self check in"..something she had never done, and no help was offered by QF staff to assist....as she said "I thought that sort of thing only happened with Ryanair or in the Third World"

Enough said..I hope all those that have destroyed this once great airline enjoy their bonus:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Em773ER]

Her first comment to me was.."I thought I had got on a Garuda flight from 20 years ago"..(she was on a 767 btw)

She was being too nice lol, those 767s are one of the worst passenger planes I have ever been on. Cant understand how they are planning to send the much needed new 787s to Jet* :ugh:

just out of curiosity folks how long would it take to have some boeing 777s delivered and in service if QF decided to buy them now?

and lastly how long does QF have (if it continues the way its headed) before it becomes the likes of ansett?

cheers

[gruntyfen]

Had a quick look at the Boeing site and it shows 70 orders for the 777 this year so far. 787 at -20. There build rate is around 32 this year and all against customer orders, maybe 3 at GECAS available but I bet they have been leased.

The one question journos should ask AJ. If the 777 is so wrong for QANTAS why do all the airlines you state QANTAS needs to be competitive against operate them to Australia?

[assasin8]

Very true... "makes no sense!" Somehow, though, in cloud cuckoo land, it makes perfect sense to the managers... Keep the old aircraft for the full fare passengers and gift the low cost carrier the brand new aircraft! :ugh:
http://qantaspilots.com.au/ (http://qantaspilots.com.au/)

[B772]

Just read about the massive flight competition that is on at present. It appears that each day a customer who books a QF international flight online will get their fare refunded up to $5000. (Agent bookings excluded).

The competition runs for 19 days with a huge total prize pool of up to $95,000

The words massive and huge are used by QF in the competition details.

What a joke of a Mickey Mouse competition by an airline such as QF.

[Sunfish]

One day a wife of Fifteen years made an unscheduled visit to her husbands business, walked into his office unannounced and found him pleasuring his Twenty One year old secretary on his desk.

He looked up in horror and shouted at her the immortal words: "This is not what you think!!!!"

Of course it was. Perceptions are reality - which is the point of the parable.

Well it's about time for Qantas Staff , Customers and Shareholders to wise up. The Board and Management can say what they like. Actions speak louder than words. Nothing the Company says can change this. Perceptions are reality.

1. It is apparent from a multitude of actions over at least the last Ten years that Qantas Management views all its staff with compete contempt, regards them as valueless automatons whose experience and skills are actually a negative attribute because:

(a) These staff are capable of highlighting weaknesses in management capability and decision making through their own superior skills and experience.

(b) These staff demand recognition as well as recompense and treatment consistent with skills acquired and responsibilities.

(c) Management response has been to replace these staff with less capable but cheaper staff. Part of the strategy to do this involves treating existing staff with contempt at every opportunity to send a message that they are not wanted. Jetstar is a thinly veiled vehicle for doing this.

This is a lethally stupid strategy because your product is only as good as the staff who deliver it. It is foolish to expect that customers will not react to it.

2. Qantas has developed a growth strategy that is directed at profiting from Asian markets by attempting to provide services that Asians can provide perfectly well for themselves. This is simply wrong because the profits (if any) will never find their way into shareholders hands.

3. Qantas has attempted to put a rosy face on these strategies, or at least try to mask their impact, by a variety of means. This has not, and will not be successful.

4. The Qantas executive remuneration system is focused on short term - bonus driven- results. This is lethally wrong for airline management because acquisition of aircraft and route planning require management time horizons to be thinking at least Ten years out, not Five years, let alone One year. This has, and does, produce sub optimal decisions from a shareholders point of view, and this is not going to change until the remuneration policy changes.

5. Unless I'm mistaken, the failed APA bid, as others have pointed out, demonstrated a less than candid approach to the concept of creating shareholder value for all shareholders by the Board and Senior Management at the time. One has to wonder if anything has changed since then, or if change in Board and Management thinking is even possible.


So there you have it in a nutshell people:

- utter contempt for anyone not "Management" and belief in their invincibility.

- Stupid business strategy, badly executed anyway.

- No likelihood of change,

That is what I think anyway., and no matter how Qantas tries to dress it up, those perceptions will remain.

[Ultralights]

in the mainstream media, it basically encompasses whats wrong with QF from the paying publics point of view, i knows its one persons experience, but i hear similar stories all over the place...

I TELL you what makes my blood boil - it's when the engine explodes after take-off.
There you are on the trip of a lifetime to Europe, in business class (thanks to frequent flyer points), although actually securing a business-class seat with points is a heckle all of its own. So having beaten that challenge, it was with a sense of smug satisfaction that I reclined my seat, a gin and tonic in hand, as we took off from Bangkok for the final leg to London.
The explosion that rocked the plane was followed by a deathly silence.
Advertisement: Story continues below
I'm not a nervous flyer, but I became a little worried at that point. The captain announced that we had ''engine trouble''. (A distinct advantage of business class is you can't actually see the fireball and flames). We then had to fly to a zone to dump all the fuel before landing. This takes an hour. The captain assured us he had done this before on a simulator. He also assured us the emergency services vehicles we would see along the runway were standard procedure. Of course they were.
Once landed, we had to wait a further hour and a half on the runway while Qantas negotiated immigration for a plane full of passengers. But don't expect this to make any difference. The official asked what my intended address was in Thailand, and, as I looked at him blankly, would not allow me in.
The airport was empty save for a straggly queue of weary refugees, all with no address. So, none of us were allowed through.
Eventually, some official waived the condition and we collected our bags and were shipped off to a hotel arriving, exhausted, just before dawn.
No new aeroplane was flown in. Instead we were bumped onto other flights. We were kindly offered a flight to Tokyo. I pointed out that we were actually hoping to go to London.
Eventually, we agreed to go economy so as to arrive in less than three days.
No air miles were refunded. No concessions were made. All dreams of business-class luxury, sleep and gin and tonics receded. Connecting flights were missed. The trip of a lifetime was fast becoming a nightmare.
But not to worry, we had a lovely long holiday before we had to contemplate the flight home.
Except you won't believe what happened on the way home. The plane broke down, in Hong Kong this time. Another trip back and forth through immigration. Another night in a hotel. Another great experience with the ''Spirit of Australia''.
Clare Taylor


Read more: Jet engine explosion can ruin your day (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/jet-engine-explosion-can-ruin-your-day-20110801-1i849.html#ixzz1TrkqFEdP)

[Ngineer]

Except you won't believe what happened on the way home. The plane broke down, in Hong Kong this time. Another trip back and forth through immigration. Another night in a hotel. Another great experience with the ''Spirit of Australia''.


But as far as the bean counters are concerned who cares? We are saving money!!!

[Bazzamundi]

The fact that this passenger won't come back next year to our airline does not worry current managers in the slightest. They will have moved on with bonuses in the bank.

KPI's rule. They saved money by utilising the cheapest and most basic maintenance money could buy, and then haggled some more. Costs saved matter to their bonus. The fact future revenue is lost cannot be seen by short term minded accountants. In their eyes, the cost of fixing the plane matters only, and this is less than the savings generated by the cheap maintenance, hence we are doing well.

You have to spend money to save money. In the quest for the worlds lowest costs, this company is soon to be destroyed.

[standard unit]

A cabin services genius and ex [lazy as all get out] hostie has a mantra that goes like this.......

"no aircraft will land into any destination with unconsumed food on board"

The effect of which is as follows.

P/C and J/C cabins are catered exactly to the passenger load.

Main meal choices [per company policy] are offered to our top tier frequent flyers first.

These individuals are already tied to our airline via FF program and as such are unlikely to fly the competition. Great, everyone is happy.

Now the passengers who are left in many cases miss out on their choice of meal, are not tied to us via a loyalty program and feel [given the money they've spent] pissed off.

Genius. These people can fly four sectors to LHR and back and on every sector not get their choice of meal.

Does anyone really think they'll choose Qantas when next traveling to Europe?

Someones KPI is met, $7.00 hot meal component saved on a AUD $7000 J/C fare and a passenger and his wife never seen again on a Qantas aircraft.

Pure genius. :ugh:

[kotoyebe]

Today was another day in paradise for our pax as well. The ADLDRW 767 return service goes US. 5 hour delay. They find a 73H. It's only 70 oversold on the return sector, but they found a 767 to put onto the SYDDRW return, so the 70 oversale only has to wait until 1.30 in the morning to leave DRW. What do you know? The 73H also goes US in ADL. Now a 13 hour delay!

Then the QF8 diverts to LAX(admittedly due to a medical offload). So due to crew hours, the DFWSYD pax are now going DFW/LAX/AKL/BNE/SYD.

On top of all that, my team is struggling to look after our QF pax, because all we have been doing the last week or so is recovering JQ disrupt pax because of all the cancellations they are having.

In my 15 years at the company, I have never felt so embarrassed for our customers. No one seems to give a sh!t around the network, and we are all really worried about 24 August, but what's worse it's starting to feel like when AN died.

[Worrals in the wilds]

P/C and J/C cabins are catered exactly to the passenger load.


...and ignore any requests made in writing, via email, on the phone and hand calligraphed on vellum (complete with curly Book of Kells style capital letters that have little dragons in them :}) about special meal requirements. Unlike every other international carrier from Our Airlines to the mighty SQ, who can provide a basic allergy/religious meal with notice.

The product sucks. It's largely not the fault of the frontline staff who do their best to compensate for the inadequacies. It's the fault of people in management who don't understand the 'customer service' concept but compete with a bunch of carriers who do. They can blame Aussie wages, unions, God hating them and every other excuse under the sun, but the fact remains that the product is average. They could fix this with a minimum of cost, but that would get in the way of the 'QF Intl is unviable' rhetoric. A lot of people would like to fly Qantas but have learned otherwise.

[worry-wort]

Someone should approach the guy who set up the Vodafail website to create one for disgruntled Qantas customers to share thier bad experiences.
Vodafail had that much exposure it created a customer backlash and forced Vodafone to change their ways

[600ft-lb]

There is always going to be stories of people being hard done by thats a given.

But the simple fact is Qantas isn't losing money. Just need to look at the reports they must submit to the ASX, the numbers are juggled, shuffled to paint the perception that Qantas is losing money when in fact it isn't.

Just look at the numbers in the annual and half year reports. You can buy aircraft under one segment and lease them off to another segment to make them look good whilst taking the depreciation hit yourself, still doesn't change the fact that the cash is rolling in at a rate better then Singapore airlines.. and I'm talking about the Qantas segment only. Not counting the highly profitable muffin segment or the FF segment or the freight segment.

Just compare EBITDAR to Revenue which is the true measure of segment profitability before the fancy accountants get their hands on it to reduce the payable to tax to a fraction, at a few different airlines and you'll see for yourself.

[crewmeal]

Interesting to see poor QF slated in this way. QF is not the only carrier to suffer problems like this. You only have to look in the forums of FlyerTalk - The world's most popular frequent flyer community (http://flyertalk.com) to see about service, there are some real beauties in there, and The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com) to see the tech reports that happen daily.

I remember when QF was way ahead of BA in service standards, but then I'm talking about B707 days!

[Mimpe]

I'm a non professional pilot and qantas ff.

i dont mind service problems as long as service is not poor, and i get what i paid many months in advance for.

I fly qantas in the hope they apply he best possible safety standards, both in. maintenance, training, and pilot standards. As a general statement, once the cheap overseas pilots start with Qantas, I might start looking around.I have many friends who are pilots for Qantas, some military trained, and all highly professional in my opinion.

If anyone can tell me an airline that is consistently regarded as best for safety, then thats who I will make me several trips a year to Europe with.

As for now, its Singapore airlines or Qantas for me, but open to suggestions.

[1a sound asleep]

How about todays DFW-BNE-SYD QF8? Ordinarily due into SYD at 08:05 (Wed)
Now arriving 15:10 (Wed)

For whatever reason QF is now operating the flight DFW-LAX-AKL-BNE-SYD
This is the sort of obvious screw up that makes QF a second class airline.

[Captain Peacock]

How about todays DFW-BNE-SYD QF8? Ordinarily due into SYD at 08:05 (Wed) Now arriving 15:10 (Wed)

For whatever reason QF is now operating the flight DFW-LAX-AKL-BNE-SYD
This is the sort of obvious screw up that makes QF a second class airline.

It diverted to LAX for a medical emergency, and crew limitations meant transferring pax onto other flights and swapping crews etc. Hardly a screw up, rather a plan for getting pax to their destinations.

[Captain Gidday]

Look higher up the thread 1A. If it was your son/daughter/father/ mother on death's door I'm sure you'd expect the same. There are a lot of guys and gals working very hard out there over the Pacific [and in the office - thanks Kotoyebe] to recover the situation.
What's your alternative plan, Goose? [To almost quote from Topgun].

[mmciau]

Mimpe,

Etihad!!



mike

[manfred]

Actually I don't know if safety standards in different airlines can be ranked, but check out the Skytrax customer reviews of Etihad vs Qantas:

Etihad Airways Customer Reviews | SKYTRAX (http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/etihad.htm)

Qantas Airways Customer Reviews | SKYTRAX (http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/qantas.htm)

Actually some interesting comments on that website, and a lot of major QF competitors score much lower than QF.

[bandit2]

Just got a chain letter from a fellow worried Qantas employee. I apologize if it's been posted previously.


QANTAS has managed to destroy 43% of it's brand value in just 2 short years.


In the 7 July issue of BRW it was stated that QANTAS has managed to destroy 43% of it's brand value in just 2 short years.
90 years to build a brand, 2 years to destroy 43% of it.
I would love to take credit for the following reply to one of Ben Sandilands blogs. I don't know who wrote it, and I apologise if it has been posted on here before, but I hadn't seen it until today. It provides a very inciteful synopsis of how we have found ourselves in this position of fighting for our very existence, and pulls no punches on who is to blame.
Read on.

----------
Some of you may be aware of the media attention recently coming upon Qantas- especially from it's CEO, Alan Joyce.
Joyce came to the Qantas Group to run Jetstar, and had a small stint in Ansett, and a large stint in Ryanair previous to joining Qantas. Joyce has in past few months called Qantas pilots "Recalcitrant", "Kamikaze", and "Rogue", as well as accusing them of "Living on cloud cuckoo land". The reason- Qantas pilots are asking to ensure Qantas pilot jobs remain in Australia, as there is gathering evidence that Qantas wants to move more of it's operations offshore. Qantas Engineers are also asking for the same guarantees. So far, Qantas has refused to negotiate at all on these asks from the pilots and engineers.
Joyce was the golden haired boy of the previous CEO Geoff Dixon, the man who masterminded the attempted private Equity buyout of Qantas in 2007. Thankfully that did not get through. If it did, Qantas would have defaulted on the debt it was going to be loaded with, and would most certainly not exist any more. Dixon stood to make $60m out of the deal, and Joyce in excess of $20m.
In the Dixon/Joyce years, decision have been made that have severely damaged the Qantas brand, including forcing passengers onto Jetstar without choice, closing in-house maintenance of engines which has resulted in a 180% increase in engine failures in the past 5 years, and not buying the right aircraft to modernise Qantas and allow route expansion. To add, Qantas has subisided the Jetstar operation from the start including paying for maintenance, payment of landing fees, fuel and terminal charges, and seat subsidies.
As a result, Qantas share prices are below their 1995 issue price of $2.00.
Joyce was in Singapore recently for the International Air Transport Association (IATA) conference and blasted the pilots and engineers as being to blame for the tanking share price. He also stated that there would be no more investment in Qantas until it "started to return it's cost of capital". As one commentator put it, this is akin to "not spending any money on your car to make it run until it starts".
To put some of this into context and to show how badly Qantas management have stuffed up, here is some quotes from Qantas management and what has subsquently happened:
"Jetstar will not operate more than 15 aircraft" G.Dixon 2004. It now operates more than 70 aircraft.
"Jetstar will never operate internationally" G Dixon 2004. It has taken many Qantas routes from it's parent company to Hawaii , Japan , Bali and other ports.
"Emirates is not a threat as it is not a growth model" G Dixon 2001. Emirates now operates more than 60 services per week to Australia and flies to 26 destinations in Europe .
"The B777 is an old technology aircraft" G Dixon 2006. The B777 could fly 90% of the routes currently flown by the B747 with a 30% reduction in fuel burn and is flown by every major airline in the world.
"There is no money in freight" G Dixon 2004. Qantas now operates a full freighter B767 aircraft flown by contract pilots as well as full time contracts with Atlas Air Cargo.
All the while Qantas pilots get assigned Long Service Leave because of a surplus in pilot numbers due to the outsourcing of flying previously done by Qantas pilots to Jetstar, Atlas cargo, Jetconnect across the Tasman, and Jetstar Asia.
You will find below a succienct, precise, summary of where and why Qantas finds itself- losing money and losing market share. This was written as a response to a blog by Ben Sandilands on crikey.com <http://crikey.com> .
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Qantas pilots and engineers ask for your support and patience this year while we try to end the rot, keep Australian jobs in Australia and attempt to save a national icon from corporate greed.
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Of all the elements a board and a CEO must manage and protect, surely building and protecting the brand of a company must be their number one priority.
Clifford came out swinging on the weekend saying the focus of the board and CEO must be, and is, on the share price and return of capital. But it is the brand that drives the share price, not the other way around. Everything else flows from that.
If you followed that logic Jetstar never would have been started and Virgin wouldn’t be spending a fortune relaunching and building the brand. If Virgin can do that, why cant Qantas?
Let’s look at the facts. This is marketing and business studies 101.
Qantas from the inception of the very first brand surveys decades ago consistently and without exception, year in year out, always lead the pack as the NUMBER ONE BRAND in Australia . This was not just in terms of brand recognition but also in relation to the more significant drivers of financial success in the market place; trust and emotional attachment for the brand.
The Qantas brand was pure 100%, 24 carat, rolled gold.
This was Qantas’s number one asset. It still should be. Bigger than all the aircraft and other tangibles combined. Every airline has plant and equipment, but only Qantas had that number one position, the ultimate in brand power.
After sitting at number one for decades Qantas is no longer even in the top ten. But worse than that here’s a report from Readers Digest annual Most Trusted Brands survey way back in 2008.

” … the iconic flying kangaroo, Qantas, dropped 47 spots in consumer confidence.”
You read right. In 2008 Qantas dropped 47 spots.
That massive drop in the brand if quantified in dollar terms is so much more than the net worth Jetstar has added to the Qantas group.
So what happened. How did the best, most loved, number one brand in Australia for decades crash and burn. So quickly. So badly.
There are two main reasons for this. And they have names, the first being Dixon , the other Joyce. The destruction of the brand has zippo to do with the current biffo with the unions.
1/ When Dixon took over as CEO the Qantas brand was still riding high and proud at number one. It was untouchable. He was seen by many as marketing and PR genius. Yet the destruction of the Qantas brand can be traced back through these exact same brand surveys to having commenced during his tenure. It is no coincidence that this rapid decline coincides EXACTLY with the rise of Jetstar under the Qantas umbrella.
BA when they held seats on the board warned Dixon an in house low cost carrier would cannibalize the parent brand. Dixon thought he knew better.
We all know the story. As soon as Jetstar was launched Qantas ****ed off many local communities with the haste it pulled out of so many key domestic and international markets and forced people who were used to, and wanted full service, onto Jetstar with an appalling lack of service.
Everyone knows Jetstar is Qantas. Each and every time people feel ripped off or mishandled by Jetstar, which is often, the knife is dug deeper and twisted further into what is left of the Qantas brand.
Just ask any of the tens of thousands of passengers forced to fly Jetstar (because Qantas has pulled out) to destinations like the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast , Tasmania , Hamilton Island , Bali or Japan . They don’t blame Jetstar, they blame Qantas.
2/ From the day Jetstar was conceived fleet renewal and investment in the mainline product ceased almost completely. While Jetstar got an entirely new fleet of fuel efficient A320/A330 aircraft “full fare” passengers on “full service” Qantas were stuck with clapped out, gas gusling, dirty and unreliable aircraft. The new Dallas debacle is a perfect example.
As you point out Ben, when Qantas could have, should have been renewing its mainline fleet, such as buying B777 as did all of its main competitors, there was no money or motivation as all the focus and cash were thrown at Jetstar.
Clifford and Joyce had already earmarked the first B787s for Jetstar, meaning Qantas mainline will not be seeing any new aircraft for many years. Just who has been subsidising who? This only serves to compound the destruction of the brand.
Joyce is now the biggest most vocal detractor of Qantas brand, constantly screaming hysterically that long haul is in serious trouble.
What would the books look like if Qantas had, as it should have as the premium brand, a fleet of all new and super efficient aircraft while the budget arm Jetstar was stuck with the old aircraft from the current mainline fleet.
A/ Jetstar would no longer be making money
B/ Qantas mainline would be making money
C/ Qantas would have a product people expect of a full service carrier and it would be growing its market share.
No one at Qantas management either remembers, nor understands, these important lessons from history.

The only player who appears to do so is John Borghetti. You can see he ‘gets it’ by his determination to invest substantially in a full service product, to grow markets such as this morning’s tie up with Singapore Airlines, the business and the Virgin brand.
He knows where Qantas is vulnerable and it is insightful too that he is branding Virgin Australia as the Australian airline and he is vocal about returning jobs to Australia service his aircraft here.

[lame1]

Cathay, Singapore,British, along with all the middle eastern airlines are making huge profits with a premium product.But no little AL thinks we need to downsize the product.Hes the greatest pretender of all.Just look at the share price and lack of dividend.Its time to get rid of them all.

[They]

Ever wondered what the segmentation of a business would do? About 15 years ago it was all the rage in the States. A few years later, the business school that invented the concept has changed its mind and now is against the concept.
Well GD Split Qantas into the business units. AJ said he was going to combine it back into one, but Qantas is still split in so many units, that it is literally ripping itself apart in the struggle for managers to get their bonuses.

There are two units that are killing the airline. And Jetstar is not one of them. The First is freight. A famous statement was made by a former QF CEO "there is no money in freight" - well we all know how wrong that is....

The problem with QF Freight is the fee that it has to pay Qantas for the use of belly space. It is a simple paper shuffle form one department to another. No money exits the company but the amount QF freight pays to Qantas determines which manager gets the 70K bonus for making the most money. The freight charge was set at standard industry rates - all good so far. That should work, shouldn't it?

Well no. To make more money, QF freight now uses a external cheep operator in the US to move its freight from JFK to LAX.

QF freight is making more money now and the manager is getting his 70K bonus

Big problem.... QF operates an A330 on the run with 30,000kg of belly space not being used. The actual cost to the airline is the extra fuel if this space was being used. On this run it is 180Kg extra fuel burn per 1000Kg of freight. That is about 20c/kg to use belly space.

Qantas is charging QF freight much much more than this, so in its company smashing wisdom freight are chartering aircraft to take the freight rather than send it on the Qantas jet.

This now makes the LAX JFK run look unprofitable for Qantas - well it is QF Freight are chartering another jet to fly along side the A330 with its freight.

Now any CEO worth his salt (or exorbitant pay) would sack the freight manager and get the freight back on their aircraft. - But no Not the clown that is in charge. He has no idea what freight is doing.
Remember the $200,000,000 fine that QF Freight cost the company for illegal activities last year??? The old CEO said he had no idea what freight does (I suppose he had to say that otherwise he would be in jail). Well the new CEO is no better.

So what is the CEO going to do? On the 24 of this month he is going to announce that Qantas is pulling out of the LAX JFK run - becaust it is loosing money. (the load pax factor is over 85% so where is the problem????)

QF Freight in the last few year has cost the company over $300,000,000 - But according to the segmented business model that they operate under, they have made lots of money, and Qantas international is the one that is loosing money.

As a Qantas Shareholder I am appalled at the lack of over site that the current management team has.

I am sick of hearing about the greedy pilots. It is the segmentation of this company, and one persons 70K bonus that has killed another Qantas route.
And an inept CEO that is incapable of running a complex company.

[-438]

Thanks They, this deserves to be forwarded on to all shareholders to explain how incompetent the top levels of Qantas are. What you describe would be replicated across many segments of the business.
All their time is spent trying to aggressively grow Jetstar, they do not realise what is happening in the core business.
The share price performance and dividends are a direct result of this misdirected management.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Love your post They. Will include it in my info pack for journos.

[ohallen]

They sure do know what is happening to the core business because they planned every last step....... step by step.

They don't give a rats about any of the consequences because they know more than anyone else.

Atleast there is one shareholder who now knows what is going on...at last but probably too late to save his investment from the saracens.

[maui]

They.

I agree with your synopsis apart from the origin of the policy.

That poonsie little prick with the bow tie did exactly that to TAA before he came to Q. Set up the silos then make them all compete for profit.

Vividly recall asking why I could see trolleys of freight for LST outside the freight shed as we taxied for LST with an empty hold. "IPEC can do it cheaper" was the answer.

Point is, don't give Scrotum Face all the credit. The Bow tie taught him all he knew. As he still holds a board position he is probably still up to his armpits in it.

Let your rage be heard.

Maui

[lame1]

didnt he also have a good connection at Natioal Jet

[TIMA9X]

This now makes the LAX JFK run look unprofitable for Qantas - well it is QF Freight are chartering another jet to fly along side the A330 with its freight.


Really makes my blood boil when you think about what the little fella is doing. makes me wonder, is this sanctioned by the board or they simply don't know?

Thanks for the great post They.

[SOPS]

Emirates SkyCargo will take all the freight you want, but that is not what I want,,,this whole situation is becoming very dangerous

[international hog driver]

Exactly the same thing happened at Lauda when they became Austrian.
Many times I used Lauda to get to Europe, the price was good the connection was great and the total travel time was usually 6hr less than QF.

For years they ran the 777 chockers and made money, then Niki sold his remaining shareholding. Everything was rebranded, the A340s were ditched and surprise surprise more tripples came.

Then some how the route was suddenly loss making...... went on for 12 months and management pulled the route which no one could believe.

During the recalculations when the fuel prices spiked some bright sparked never included the freight revenue.

They pulled a perfectly viable route, because some bright spark did not include the revenue that was not from his domain.....

Unfortunately the rat is headed the same way

[Sunfish]

The technical term for competing business units sh1tting in each others nest is "sub optimization". It is a common problem in many businesses, for example in the late 80's when I was marketing petrol pumps, our service division was flogging exactly the same pump to Shell. BP etc. as "remanufactured" at a lower price - the oil companies simply changed over the pump data plate from the "old" pump to the new one and diddled the ATO out of God knows how much money. Service manager got his bonus, I didn't :(

I have to ask the question; is Qantas being killed through complete management stupidity of is it a deliberate attempt to drive it under so that the brand can be sold to the same lot who built the APA bid?

[balance]

Posted 2nd August by Koyotebe...

Today was another day in paradise for our pax as well. The ADLDRW 767 return service goes US. 5 hour delay. They find a 73H. It's only 70 oversold on the return sector, but they found a 767 to put onto the SYDDRW return, so the 70 oversale only has to wait until 1.30 in the morning to leave DRW. What do you know? The 73H also goes US in ADL. Now a 13 hour delay!

I understand the good Senator Nick X was on that service and had the pleasure of boarding and de-boarding three times and watching the debacle unfold...

Sunfish asks the most important question ever posed on pprune:

Is this a deliberate action by the management of Qantas to destroy their own brand? I mean, no-one is this stupid, surely? They must be doing this for their own greedy, self centred reasons?

[hotnhigh]

Reviewing past posts it is interesting but also disturbing at the predictions and foresight people have made with respect to the direction Qantas is taking. It's easy to come out and highlight the many failings of the board in running the company but now Qantas needs a concise alternative to arrest the deep spiral dive Qantas appears to be in and regain some altitude with the travelling public.
Previously, I have posted this..
1. Re establishment of all engineering functions back in Australia. It's forms the core of the business of running an airline.
1b. Publically acknowledge there is an unacceptable trend occuring.
2. Acknowledge that some decisions taken by the board over the last 10 years have contributed to a detrimental effect on Qantas mainline.
3. Acknowledge to staff that mistakes have been made.
4. Acknowledge to staff that they are aware everyone wants a future. When it comes to negotiating, acknowledge that they are aware staff are willing to negotiate in good faith.
5. Organise a plan and recognise that a solution lies within the organisation, ie. it's front line staff, who have a desperate desire for Qantas to be the best.
6. Acknowledge this will come at a cost.
7. Abolish KPI linked bonuses. Every staff member is paid a salary and that is it!
8. Abolish all consultant positions. Any manager that needs to have a consultant work for them doesn't deserve the position.
9. Review board member aviation experience, and require pilot/engineer representatives presence at every board meeting.
10. Establishment of recovery plan that places the qantas product first and foremost. Identify to the travelling public that Qantas understands it's faults and is implementing the steps in the recovery.
11. All new aircraft arrivals targeted to reduce the dilapadated Qantas fleet.

But I'd suggest a more definitive plan is required. Anyone got the number for boeing 777 sales? And secondly the returns number for airbus? Also I would think that every pilot/engineer/cabin crew wants to work hard at the recovery, but this has to be based on a mutual feeling of trust and respect.

[Leatherdog]

VOTE 1. Hot high for CEO.

Seriously though, the board must be blind if they cannot see this kind of reform is required. Perhaps this is the problem, cannot see the forest for the trees are in the way.

[struggling]

Hear! Hear!

I'll second that resolution

[dr dre]

What AIPA/ALAEA/all the unions/Senator X and everyone else who wants Qantas to succed need is a viable plan to put to the shareholders at this years AGM. One that provides for growth and investment in Australian based jobs and services and which is backed by an experienced leadership team.

At the moment the only team with a plan for QF is AJ, Clifford and co. There's no point for the unions to be seeking a no confidence vote if they don't have an alternative to present to the shareholders.

[aveng]

Re establishment of all engineering functions back in Australia.

Alas, I think this will now be impossible. The way that the guys in heavy maintenance and the workshops were treated before they left, I don't think many would come back to Qantas, most have moved on to other things in industries that appreciate them.:ugh:

The horse has well and truly bolted!

[unionist1974]

Not visited this site for 5 days , the QF threads are so repetitive , boring and predictable . All the usual suspects , spouting the same old lines , guys can you try something new ! Please , you need to move on .

[ChrisJ800]

I travel a lot overseas but often not on Qantas due:
1) Inflight service is of a lesser standard compared to the competition flying out of Australia, at least in economy.
2) My travel agent (an australian company) seems to not like booking Qantas. I suspect they dont get as big a commission or kick back compared to competitor airlines. As I often fly multi sector routes I often cant book through qantas web site. The web site could be improved to cater for more complex bookings.
3) Poor travel experiences in last 2 years For example, long flight delays with unserviceable aircraft out of Melbourne yet wouldnt put on a replacement aircraft. Baggage lost twice, one time took 6 weeks for Qantas baggage to get it to home to me :( . Inflight entertainment broken on several long flights. I havent had these problems when flying the competition in the same 2 year period.

I have several friends flying for Qantas and like the quality, training and professionalism of the pilots. But Qantas needs to lift its game to become competitive as we do have a choice when going overseas.

[Short_Circuit]

Why don't 85% of outbound traffic fly Qantas, because QF don't fly to 85% of the destinations we want to go to!!!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::mad: