300 Metres of Chinese Whoopass !

[tezzer]

BBC News - China aircraft carrier confirmed by general (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13692558)

[MG]

At last, a carrier thread! It's about time we had a discussion over whether carriers are the best thing since sliced bread!:)

[Willard Whyte]

Old(ish) news...

THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA VARYAG TRANSFORMATION (http://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/redseadragon/varyagtransform.htm)

Isn't this the carrier that was supposed to be a floating Casino/Hotel/School/Amusement Park/Hospital/insert some other non-military and frankly ludicrous claim here...

We, well, our politicians, never shy clear of having the wool pulled firmly over their eyes and ears by the Chinese.

Pull the other one Qi Jianguo:

Lt Gen Qi Jianguo, assistant chief of the general staff, told the Hong Kong Commercial Daily that even after the aircraft carrier was deployed, it would "definitely not sail to other countries' territorial waters".

One assumes it will therefore sail into the territorial waters China claims to be hers - most of the South China Sea in fact.

[Postman Plod]

I'm sure it'll be seen in the East China Sea, the Pacific China Sea, the Atlantic China Sea, the North China Sea, etc...

[racedo]

What's the old saying

"No such thing as new ships, just new targets!

[Heathrow Harry]

odd that they are spending money on an IRBM to hit carriers and also spending zillions on an aircraft carrier...............................

[Load Toad]

Yeah because that would be crazy, like buying and using condoms but still having sex.



This is old news isn't it?


The Chinese have carrier 'hulls' inshore in China that have been used for training. The first carrier is a rebuild of a Russian carrier & mainly is to bring the Chinese some experience of having & using carriers and their intention is to build their own carriers.

[racedo]

They have that nice new Chinese Naval base in Pakistan to visit.

[Mechta]

On the BBC news last night they showed the Chinese carrier, and quoted a Chinese official as saying, 'It does not pose a threat to other countries'.

Not a lot of use then, is it!:E

[Jane-DoH]

Mechta

On the BBC news last night they showed the Chinese carrier, and quoted a Chinese official as saying, 'It does not pose a threat to other countries'

LMAO! That's one of the biggest crocks I ever heard!

[mcjlf1]

As it appears to have a ski jump, are the Chinese perhaps going to buy the Harriers?:ooh:

[jamesdevice]

this one doesn't pose s trheat. They're just learning how to weld it together, build / use the on-board systems and make them work, and then sail it. It'll never be properly operational except for flag0-waving
The first one they build from scratch - thats the one to worry about

[Tallsar]

"this one doesn't pose a threat. They're just learning how to weld it together, build / use the on-board systems and make them work, and then sail it. It'll never be properly operational except for flag0-waving".

:mad::eek::):)

Are you sure that this is not a straight takeout from the SDSR re HMS Queen Elizabeth?

[500N]

"The first one they build from scratch - thats the one to worry about"

And the 3rd and 4th one's which are likely to be Nuclear powered.

.

[Laarbruch72]

The Ukraine sold Varyag to China "under the condition she would never be refitted for combat". So is there any substance to any such conditions, and are there any penalties for reneging on them? I take it that all it really means is that Ukraine are mildly annoyed?

[Load Toad]

Didn't the UK used to sell Hawks to Indonesia in the Soeharto years. 'Planes that were for 'training only'...? But were of course used to bomb the East Timorese.

So they have a carrier - it's been coming for years. Quit whining - you were happy to outsource manufacturing, you were happy to buy cheap stuff...now they have a carrier.

[Airbrake]

They are only being built because it's more expensive to cancel.

[FODPlod]

They are only being built because it's more expensive to cancel.

.. and they are probably being assembled in the Premier's constituency. They'll be sorry when the PLA(Navy) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ships_of_the_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Navy) has to cut down to only 100 DD/FF, 400 coastal warfare vessels and 50 submarines to compensate.

[thunderbird7]

The Ukraine sold Varyag to China "under the condition she would never be refitted for combat". So is there any substance to any such conditions, and are there any penalties for reneging on them? I take it that all it really means is that Ukraine are mildly annoyed?

It;s probably fitted with one of these:

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/2585/20100525selfdestruct.jpg

[Efe Cem Elci]

Turkey didn't allow passage of the Varyag from the Bosphorus Strait for 16 months, until the Chinese Government signed off a 1 Billion USD guarantee that it would not be used for military purposes and guaranteed more Chinese tourists to Turkey. :\

Let's see where this heads...

[Flyt3est]

And the 3rd and 4th one's which are likely to be Nuclear powered

Don't hold your breath.. By the time they get around to that, the yanks will have invented "warp drive" :p

[TEEEJ]

Mcjlf1 wrote

As it appears to have a ski jump, are the Chinese perhaps going to buy the Harriers?

The Chinese will be operating the Shenyang J-15 from the carrier using the ski-ramp. The J-15 is a variant of the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker.

J-15 testing in China.

YouTube - ‪J-15 Test-Flight Compiliation‬‏

Shenyang J-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-15)

J-15 | Global Military (http://www.global-military.com/tag/j-15)

See ramp on Russian carrier operating Flanker.

YouTube - ‪Sukhoi Su-33 NATO Code: Flanker-D‬‏

JT

[stilton]

What is the point of a non Vstol Aircraft using a ski jump ?


So you avoid the weight / complexity of a catapult but how much of a weapons load can you lift staggering into the air barely above stall speed ?


It seems impressive watching the Russian fighter but it doesn't seem very practical.


Did the Harrier not go off the end of the ski jump at 70-90
knots below normal flying speed ?


Being able to go to an intermediate nozzle position at that point augmenting aerodynamic lift with vertical thrust allowed it to carry a decent payload



Just don't see the point, this carrier must have an arresting wire system to stop it's Aircraft so why not go all the way and install catapults ?

[Tourist]

"What is the point of a non Vstol Aircraft using a ski jump ?"

I am starting to despair at the educational standard on this forum.

[NoHoverstop]

"What is the point of a non Vstol Aircraft using a ski jump ?

...staggering into the air barely above stall speed ?"

I am starting to despair at the educational standard on this forum.

Indeed.

Stilton, the whole point is that if they're doing it right they should be launching at below stall speed. The remaining runway required to accelerate to above (1g) stall speed is in the sky. It doesn't stall because while using the runway in the sky the aircraft should be at an angle of attack well below the stall AoA, which it can afford to be at because it doesn't need to produce >1g Nz until it's used up the upwards momentum* provided by the ramp, by which time it will be going much faster and can generate 1g+ with a sensible AoA. The relevance of V/STOL is a herring almost as red as the Chairman Mao bookshop 'classics' shelf.

Hope that helps :)


*yes, I'm aware that Lt Cdr Taylor's original idea included extending the semi-ballistic trajectory well into the downward phase as well, but let's keep things simple eh?

[glad rag]

Anyone got a clue as to what the underwater arrangement, as shown at 1:52 on THIS video is? ?

7QHk30Zt7yg&feature=player_embedded#at=113

[Tourist]

If it is the bit I think you mean, it is just welded on to act as a support whilst in dry dock to be cut off later.

[oldgrubber]

Glad Rag,

Is this what you're referring to?

Bulbous Bow (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/bulbous-bow.htm)

[Tourist]

oldgrubber

That article seems to be a strange cut and paste mix of truth and crap.

"It adds buoyancy to the bow, reducing drag for better handling at sea and providing lift to the flight deck."

=Crap

but the next paragraph is all good, then the rest seems to be lifted from some very very old documents suggesting that it is a new idea?

[oldgrubber]

Tourist,
Here's a better link

Learning about bulbous bows (http://www.dieselduck.ca/library/01%20articles/bulbous_bows.htm)

Cheers now

[Tourist]

I was taught that it all came about because of a WW1 US Navy destroyer being fitted with a special new sonar in a bulbous nose and finding it had gained a couple of knots in trials. They then worked back to a theory justifying it.

[jamesdevice]

I suspect he doesn't mean the bulbous bow, but instead the other two knobbly protuberances which look like sensor arrays

[glad rag]

Hmm ,yes, jamesdevice, that's what I thought at first, but I now think a bit of perspective coming into it, are they in fact not further and higher back that first appears? sponsons???

Poor quality video doesn't help, to quote "was it taken with a bar code reader" :O

Anyway back on topic.

GR

[galaxy flyer]

Nobody does carrier ops better than the USN--night, IFR, combat--developed thru slathers of experience in WW II, Korea and Vietnam. I takes a helluva team effort to make a carrier work, all of it voluntary and properly trained and led. I don't see any threat from China or Russia's efforts at carrier ops anytime soon.

Tip of the Hat to the RN who developed angled flight decks, steam cats and the "meatball' without which carrier ops would still have paddles and barrier. :ok:

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Bow thruster housings?

[Modern Elmo]

... until it's used up the upwards momentum* provided by the ramp...

Upwards momentum provided by the ramp? Explain that some more.

Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp?

[Modern Elmo]

I'll give the Rooskies credit for having good-looking warships ... very, what's the word? rakish ... got those low, long main deck "through lines." Lotsa guns and missiles showing ... ( maybe not many reloads below deck, however. )

I'm sure the designers claim that the ships look that way for purely functional reasons ... not really the truth. There's a video of that aircracft carrier in heavy seas. Doesn't look like it has enough freeboard.

[Willard Whyte]

Upwards momentum provided by the ramp? Explain that some more.

Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp? Upwards momentum - seems simple enough; if one launches a projectile at an angle it has a vertical velocity component.

And yes, the a/c 'speed' will increase as long as there is enough thrust to overcome the effects of gravity - the steeper the ramp the greater the effect of the a/c's weight. If we imagine an a/c that weighs 60,000 lb and has 40,000 lb of thrust, on a 30 degree incline 30,000 lb of thrust will be needed to act against the weight leaving 10,000 lb to accelerate the a/c. Acceleration = F/M = 1/6. On a level runway all the thrust will act to accelerate the a/c: A = 4/6

[NoHoverstop]

... until it's used up the upwards momentum* provided by the ramp...

Upwards momentum provided by the ramp? Explain that some more.

Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp?

Ever stood on a bow ramp in Sea State 6? :)

Fair point though and when I wrote that I suspected someone might pick up on it. Are we agreed though, that neglecting ship motion (at your peril!) the momentum comes from the aircraft's engine(s) but that the ramp ensures that there is a useful upwards component? Flat deck - no upwards momentum at deck-exit. Ramp - upwards momentum with the same aeroplane at deck exit. So in a "big picture" sense if not a mathematically-correct one, the ramp provides the upwards momentum. The upwards momentum is way more relevant then the slight KE to PE trade effect on speed as the aircraft climbs the ramp.

To answer you final question, in my experience it always did, substantially. Of course it wouldn't if the aircraft engine stopped working.

Do you think I've answered the original question now?

[Fareastdriver]

The Chinese do not have the expertise or the experience to build and operate aircraft carriers. This ship is just a tool to assess whether the abiliity is available in China.

They will build more carriers, if only for national pride.

If you are an established naval architect with experience in modern carriers get you CV in now, because there is a fortune to be made. The same goes for naval personel with experience in the training role. Join the club and stand under a waterfall of money.

[mr fish]

one wonders how many dogs will be kept in the frozen food storage:eek:




oh, not forgetting cats, snakes, scorpions, tiger bones etc!!

[stilton]

Not having been formally schooled on the physics of Ski Jumps I suppose my 'education is a bit lacking :rolleyes:


I think what you are saying is that, basically the Aircraft is on a 'ballistic' trajectory once it leaves the end of the ramp and, at less than one G it has a little time and air beneath it to accelerate through and beyond its stall AOA.

[reynoldsno1]

I'll give the Rooskies credit for having good-looking warships

I'll second that - the Kara was a beauty when she first appeared ....

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Not to mention the Kirov class battlecruisers! :ok:

File:Kirov-class battlecruiser.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kirov-class_battlecruiser.jpg)

[rh200]

I think you are all missing the point. They got it as a template, their going to start making cheap Chinese carriers, that way every nation can have one.

[stilton]

Lets see how they do on a pitch black night with a pitching deck..



Their version of a ski jump is so effective it doesn't appear necessary for their fighters to carry any payload at all :confused:

[Load Toad]

The point that has been made several times already - they are re-building this carrier so that they can gain experience & train in the art and science of having aircraft carriers; is this a difficult concept to understand?

[Biggus]

Apparently it is......

[Willard Whyte]

I think it’s naïve, at best, to think this is simply a practice go at building a flat-top given the systems being fitted to it.


If, when, any sister ships are built then if they differ in design what’s the point in (re) building the Varig to a certain spec? If future ships are essentially the same then ‘Varig’ will have the same capabilities.


Face it, 'Varig' will be a fully capable, operational, carrier once a period of 'familiarisation' is complete.

No, I'm not a carrier expert, but I can use my eyes and use my brain.

[Mechta]

On the subject of ski jumps, when the deck is pitching in a higher sea state is any conscious effort made to time the take off so the aircraft leaves the ramp at a particular point in the pitching cycle?

[Biggus]

So how much of the hull is original (laid down 1985, launched 1988), and what condition is it in, even after "refurbishment", given the chequered maintenance history since launch?

[oldgrubber]

Sea trials inbound!
China's First Aircraft Carrier To Begin Sea Trials - Defense News (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=6877585&c=SEA&s=TOP)


Cheers now

[oldgrubber]

After one false start,
They're almost ready to go by the looks of it!

China's first aircraft carrier sea trials soon - China.org.cn (http://www.china.org.cn/china/2011-08/02/content_23121231.htm)

[jamesdevice]

won't be doing many trials for a while if its parked anywhere that leaking nuclear sub.

[500N]

I was thinking that the other day.

The Chinese will have a lot of work to do if the contamination has spread tot he other subs / work areas.

The US got their Aircraft carrier well away from Japan to avoid contamination from fall out due to the amount of work off station that would have been required if it had been contaminated.

.

[kbrockman]

I confess,

I'm a total noob when it comes to the art of carrier design issues but
I want to ask anyway.
Seeing how you guys discussed the usefulness of the skijump, isn't there also another big downfall comming from using such a launching aid.

There surely must be issues with disrupted airflow comming from such a hill
in front the ship.
Aren't carriers usually sailing in the wind at rather high speed (+25knts or so)
significantly contributing towards better takeoff performances (higher possible TOW) for its fighters ?

A large object like that must surely significantly negate that effect, no?

[orca]

But you take off from the top of the hill, not behind it.

Harrier ops are (were) timed to get an upwards throw from any deck movement. Folk lore had it that if you slammed as the bow went down through the horizon you wouldn't be far off. Folk lore was right most of the time.

[kbrockman]

But you take off from the top of the hill, not behind it.

Okay, I missed out on that obviously.

[XV277]

But what will they name it? Answers on a post card......

[Tankertrashnav]

Been meaning to look at this thread since it opened but only just got round to it. Just one question for the OP.

"Whoopass" - is that a Yorkshire expression?

But what will they name it? Answers on a post card......


Dont forget to turn the postcard vertically and write from bottom to top!

[GreenKnight121]

The US got their Aircraft carrier well away from Japan to avoid contamination from fall out due to the amount of work off station that would have been required if it had been contaminated.

No, they didn't. They moved USS George Washington away because she had been under maintenance and was only partially-crewed.
U.S. Military Considering Mandatory Evacuations In Yokosuka, Japan « Suzie-Q's Truth and Justice Blog (http://suzieqq.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/u-s-military-considering-mandatory-evacuations-in-yokosuka-japan/)

USS Reagan and USS Essex, however, moved in and participated in relief efforts from fairly close range.
Factbox: U.S. Navy ships joining Japan relief effort | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-usa-aid-idUSTRE72B3KD20110312)
USS Ronald Reagan ends mission as U.S. military relief efforts shift in Japan - News - Stripes (http://www.stripes.com/news/uss-ronald-reagan-ends-mission-as-u-s-military-relief-efforts-shift-in-japan-1.140061)

Note this:
Families Of USS Ronald Reagan Crew Remain Concerned - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego (http://www.10news.com/news/27220036/detail.html)

[500N]

Well, we received some media footage of a US Aircraft carrier moving to avoid the radioactive plume fallout some distance from the actual plant and pictures of the crew scrubbing the whole ship.

I only had time to find one article and it is US based media.
Carrier Reagan repositioned to avoid reactor fall-out | SignOnSanDiego.com (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/13/carrier-reagan-pilots-deliver-aid-japan/)


My understanding is that if the ship was contaminated with nuclear fall out from the Japanese plant, the ship then needs to be thoroughly cleaned or the on board radiation monitoring systems can give false readings of radiation leaks which is not a good idea for a ship with an on board nuclear reactor.

I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong on the above reasoning.


Edit
Found another one
U.S. carrier moves away from radiation

A U.S. aircraft carrier group has moved farther offshore from Japan ........

"The aircraft carrier and other U.S. warships in the region will not be in the path of wind-carried radiation,............
U.S. carrier moves away from radiation - UPI.com (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/03/14/US-carrier-moves-away-from-radiation/UPI-82931300087800/)

Edit No 2
So both of the articles say the USS Reagan moved away and that is what I saw on the media when it happened and then I found this.

"On 14 March 2011, the ship was forced to relocate to avoid a radioactive plume from the Fukushima I nuclear accidents which had irradiated 17 crewmembers of three helicopter crews. On March 23, the Reagan's crew conducted a radiation decontamination operation to remove any further radiation hazards from the ship, which included scrubbing down any surface that could have been contaminated, including the flight deck and aircraft."

Some great photos of the USS Reagan flight deck being scrubbed with soap.
This is what was shown on our media
Photo: A super-size scrub | Need to Know (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/the-daily-need/photo-a-super-size-scrub/8143/)

.

[GreenKnight121]

But she then stayed near Japan and involved in relief operations for about 10-12 more days before the operation was concluded and she was ordered to head back south.

[500N]

OK, misunderstanding. I said well away from Japan, what I meant was away from Japan while the Radiation cloud that went into the atmosphere was moving which they were in the way off.


If after a couple of aircraft (and 17 crew) went through the cloud meant they scrubbed the deck of the carrier, can you imagine the cleaning required if the whole carrier went through it was contaminated, plus of course the exposure of the crew.

[GreenKnight121]

Nobody wants to stay in a radiation cloud.

Nobody sane, anyway.

[Willard Whyte]

BBC News - China's first aircraft carrier 'starts sea trials' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14470882)

[Load Toad]

I wouldn't worry to much - if it's anything like Chinese driving it'll have a crash before it gets out of Shenzhen.

[Neptunus Rex]

Shenzen? That is a very long way from Dalian.

[Load Toad]

...that's the other carrier.

[jamesdevice]

that one opened this week as an hotel Really!

[Neptunus Rex]

Varyag is undergoing sea trials, sailing from Dalian.
Kiev is the new floating hotel, in Tianjin.
Where did Shenzen come into it?

[Load Toad]

There is a carrier in Shenzhen - as you drive towards Chouzhou.

Standing on the Aircraft Carrier board in ShenZhen 01 (http://www.360cities.net/image/standing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-board-in-shenzhen-01#0.00,0.00,70.0)

Minsk World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_World)

[Willard Whyte]

The Varyag has been rumoured to have been named Shi Lang.

Admiral Shi Lang commanded a fleet that conquered Taiwan in 1683...

[Tinfoil hat]3 is a lucky number in China, 2016 marks the 333rd anniversary of the aforementioned event[/Tinfoil hat]

[Tankertrashnav]

Wasn't there a Motown girl group called the Shilangs?

If not, then there should have been ;)

[Benzimra]

Perhaps you are thinking of the Bay City Rollers song "Shang-A Lang"? :O

[Tankertrashnav]

Ah the Rollers - whatever happened to my tartan scarf? ;)

[lightningmate]

Possibly the 'The Shangri-Las'.

Gawd - really showing my age!!

lm

[Occasional Aviator]

Do you think that posting under the name 'Lightningmate' might also give a clue to your age?

[jamesdevice]

just came across press reports of this Chinese LSD launched in July
If the comment that it can carry 99 main battle tanks is for real (and not a result of the weird translation) I'd say this was a bigger worry than the carrier

Dock Landing Ship No. 071 | China Military (http://www.chinamilitary.net/tag/dock-landing-ship-no-071)
China refuses to acknowledge that has equipped with an aircraft carrier | WAREYE (http://wareye.com/china-refuses-to-acknowledge-that-has-equipped-with-an-aircraft-carrier)

[Milo Minderbinder]

Some photos and video of the chinese carrier on sea trials

Recent sea trial pictures of China's aircraft carrier - China News - SINA English (http://english.sina.com/china/p/2012/0717/487190.html)

[NutLoose]

What they need is Cameron to come on board and tell them how well they are doing and that the Country is proud if them, that'll **** em.

It does not appear to sail very straight.. :E

http://img.news.sina.com/china/p/2012/0717/U45P5029T2D487190F26DT20120718112131.jpg

http://img.news.sina.com/china/p/2012/0717/U45P5029T2D487190F24DT20120718112131.jpg

[reynoldsno1]

Apparently the Chinese have now annexed a small part of the Paracel Islands, much to the irritation of the Vietnamese ... the dots are gradually being joined, even if it takes a 1000 years.

[Milo Minderbinder]

Bit more to it than that
In the week the carrier does sea trials, they hold a ceremony to mark the opening of a new "city" named Sansha to "to administer the Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea."

New city established on Yongxing Island - China News - SINA English (http://english.sina.com/china/p/2012/0724/489367.html)
Sansha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sansha)

And oh look they announce at the same time
PLA to garrison in Sansha City - China News - SINA English (http://english.sina.com/china/2012/0722/488615.html)

And the next day they announce China to build airstrip near Zhongye Island: Philippine media buzz - China News - SINA English (http://english.sina.com/china/2012/0724/489142.html)

[Fareastdriver]

The Chinese have a fairly good argument for the sovereignty over the Paracel Islands. There was a bit of toing and froing in the 19th century but in the 1920s an International agreement that included Britain and France placed it under Chinese juristriction. Despite this the French invaded it in the 30s when the Chinese were otherwise occupied with the Japanese.
The tides of war turned and in 1945 the Japaneses handed it back to the Chinese (Nationalist) government. In 1949 when the PRoC was formed the Communist goverment took possession.
The Vietnamese considered that they owned it because of the previous French efforts and in 1974 there was a punch-up when the Vietnamese tried to regain control. This failed and a very embarrassed American 'advisor' eventual took a walk across the bridge from Shenzhen to Hong Kong at Lo Wu.

The original merchant traders in the South China Sea were the Chinese, their junks would be everywhere, and there was no end of shoals and lonely islands where they would replenish with water and food. They then considered them part of the Empire and they still do.

[Heathrow Harry]

Public arguments over borders are generally long and fairly pointless

the Chinese themselves have a long record of

a) being against "unequal" treaties
b) not accepting third party intervention
c) negotiating one-on-one
d) working on the basis of the current "line of control" or "traditionally accepted lines"
e) coming to reasonable agreements with their neighbours

God knows how you sort out the South China Sea tho when everyone is shouting the odds - I suspect the only way is to internationalise any resources found there and jointly produce them (there are several examples around) and leave the papers to yell at each other

[CoffmanStarter]

They all look the same to me :}

[Fedaykin]

OK lots of misunderstandings about why the Admiral Kuznetsov and Liaoning are operating in a STOBAR configuration and not with a catapult.

The Project 1143.5 class that forms Admiral Kuznetsov and Liaoning is a slightly scaled up variant of the four ship Project 1143 class and an interim solution for the cancelled 1143.7 Ulyanovsk. Admiral Kuznetsov has very similar propulsion and sub systems to the last of the Project 1143 Admiral Gorshkov (refitted as Vikramaditya for India).

Project 1143.7 was an 85,000 ton nuclear powered carrier fitted with Ski-jump, catapults and arrestor gear. It would of operated a mixed airgroup with a fixed wing AEW type the Yak-44, either the Mig-29K or Su-33 in some form of multi-role form and most importantly the Yak-141 supersonic STOVL fighter. The Yak-44, Mig29 and Su-33 would use the catapult and arrestor gear whilst the Yak-141 would of used the Ski jump.

The primary fixed wing type would of been the Yak-141 operating off the ski jump. It was found that the Mig-29K and Su-33 could both get airborne only using the ski jump so it was decided to fit the arrestor gear to the interim Project 1143.5 to allow the navy to get experience with the more complex landing aspects of CATOBAR operations.

Now what happened next is why we ended up with STOBAR operations only being the main way the 1143.5 were used. Firstly the Russians had technical issues with the catapult which is not a big deal considering it was a number of years before the 1143.7 Ulyanovsk in the early stages of constriction in the Ukraine would of been ready. Secondly the Yak-141 was also suffering problems including a crash in 1991.

These were issues that could of been ironed out and both the Mig-29K and Su-33 were well into testing on the Admiral Kuznetsov meaning the program could proceed. Then the BIIIIIIG problem hit! The fall of the communism and Soviet Union! Much of the funding needed to fix technical problems with the Yak-141 and catapults vanished. The second 1143.5 at 70% construction and the first 1143.7 Ulyanovsk at 40% construction were sitting in a Ukrainian ship yard. What the Russians did have was one 1143.5 the Admiral Kuznetsov in operation with two different fighter types available for operations. So the Su-33 was chosen for service, the Varyag was left to rust away awaiting funding and the Ulyanovsk was scrapped on the slip with no hope of completion.

So there we are, hope people better understand the reasoning behind STOBAR operations on the Admiral Kuznetsov and Liaoning! If all had gone to plan it would of been the Yak-141 roaring off the Admiral Kuznetsov's and Varyag's deck!


IMPORTANT NOTE! I realise that all these ships have had multiple names over their life but have tried to use the most recent in explanation to avoid confusion!